Iraq isn't about oil.

[Nlighten1]

I had a conversation with a right-wing person yesterday. It was a very civil discussion as this person wasn't a knuckle-dragging, mouth breather. However, he kept saying that the US didn't need to invade Iraq to get the oil they could have just kept buying it. This sort of logic falls short on my for some reason but I can't think of all the ways it fails. Yes, we could have kept buying the oil BUT look at all the money Haliburton and Bechtel are getting now. Not only that but it looks like they won't have to "buy" the oil now they are getting it for free.

Anyone else?

[Robb]

1. Even if they still "buy" it

The same companies who would buy the oil now, can do so with the comfort of massive profits from subsidiary concerns.

You've got it.

[Spentastic]

2. Yes

But the Iraqis could in effect dictate the price of the oil. Now they can't. Easy. It also lessens reliance on Saudi so we can beat them up if we "need" to.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

3. yeah and the Pope is NOT Catholic!

[rooboy]

4. US on the inside helps control the price.

The idea was to take over Iraq, thereby getting a seat on the OPEC board and steering the organization away from using the Euro as trading currency, and eventually wrecking the cartel from the inside.

An invasion of Iraq put the UK and US in charge of the oil. Guess who the 3 main countries were drilling in Iraq before the war? Russia, France and China.

But as far as Halliburton and Bechtel are concerned, it's the equivalent of a government-funded bailout using the Iraqi's money.

[Kolesar]

5. Good summary

Also point out that Iraq's reserves are only about 1/3 of Saudi Arabia. We do not have a dominant position in the oil supply, but it is significant.

[never cry wolf]

14. Actually, Iraq's known reserves...

are second only to SA's but it is a widely held belief that their as yet undiscovered reserves will total them out more than the Saudis.

Read the PNAC policy paper put out in 2000. They want to make sure that we remain the sole world superpower. The way they want to be able to stifle any potential rivals is through the oil. They veiw the EU, Russia and China as potential rivals and figure that if they have their hand on the nozzle they can shut em down.

[Dissenting_Prole]

6. Before, they could buy it,

but now they control it.

Maintaining control. In a decade when world oil production will peak, that will make all the difference.

[peacetalksforall]

7. And now they control it?

Not yet and maybe not.

And at what cost...so far 1 1/2 of or young ones dead and 10 injured a day.

And economic disasters for the little people.

All answers imply that it's for the good of the country.

It's to maintain wealth for some and gain on it.

And part of the package is control of the people.

Rights? Poof!

Voice? Poof!

Votes? Poof!

Protest? Poof!

Truth? Poof!

Jobs? Poof!

[Mel]

8. and don't forget the

Pooty-Poot (Putin) deal with Saudia Arabia
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=94033&mesg_id=94033

[Sick of Bullshit]

9. Nope, not about oil

It's mere coincidence that Iraq has the second-largest reserves in the world (and most of it super high grade), and that Bu$$$h and Cheney are both oil men, and that the National Security Advisor used to have an oil tanker named after her that is owned by a company that has now won a big fat contract in Iraq, and that the first facilities "secured" in Iraq during the war were oil fields and that the Ministry of Oil was being protected while the other Iraqi ministry buildings were being laid waste.

Yup, it's all coinky-dink
:crazy:

[HFishbine]

10. Three reasons

in addition to the $$$ for "rebuilding" offered to American companies (not directly about oil), the Iraqi oil industry was nationalized. The invasion will allow the administration to privatize it -- that's why it's about oil -- not so we could get more of it, but so that US companies could profit from it's sale instead of just buying it.

There also was the small mater of wishing to break the influence of OPEC, something articulated well before the war (even before Bush's election) as a desirable outcome of war with Iraq by the Project for the New American Century.

Finally, there was concern that Iraq would begin using euros as the currency for oil trades instead of US dollars, which would have made dollars less valuable.

[TahitiNut]

11. Saddam was pricing oil in Euros already.

Yes, that was a precipitating move. FWIW, the US was importing about $30B/year in oil and spending about $50B/year for military in the Persian Gulf area as of 2000. Rape and pillage corporatism is about socializing the costs ("corporate welfare") and privatizing the profits. Private ownership and control of public resources is consistent with this strategy. The "oil depletion allowance" is merely a compounding of this evil -- a bit like penalizing the parents because the raped daughter is no longer a virgin.

[HFishbine]

13. Thanks Nut

for adding more insight.

[OldEuropean]

12. It is not simply to get the oil

but also get all the candy that belongs to it - drill for it, refine etc. Bechtel, Halliburton and so on are making a fortune from this and the fun part is - the Iraq will have to pay them for the reconstruction of the oil industry - with oil dollars. So they "sell" their oil to the USA but from the money they pay US "service".

If you ask me this is some kind of money laundering - or modern looting.

Simply grabbing the oil would have too many negative effects - like instable oil price.

[Gin]

15. "AMERICA" didn't profit from the war...A Few "Special American companies"

are profiting from the war.

We the people, are nothing but, We the pawns.

[Astarho]

16. Of course not

Doesn't Iraq have some of the largest water resources in the ME? Maybe Halliburton and Bechtel are following Enron's lead.

I wish I knew if that statement was sarcastic or not.

As for the keep buying the oil argument: Why buy what you can steal?

[guajira]

17. BULLSHIT!! It was an Invasion for OIL and Many Iraqis Know it!!

Too bad many Americans are so ignorant and uninformed!

When the US gets completely out of Iraq, and turns all the oil fields back over to the Iraqis - then I will say it's not about oil (and hell will probably freeze over!!).

[ewagner]

23. I think privatization

is the key here.

The original plan for Iraq was (and remains) complete privatization of all aspects of Iraqi government. (sort of a PNAC wet dream for the US). This, of course includes privatization of the oil industry which will be done by either direct ownership by American companies or Iraqi companies with American investment (ownership by one degree of separation).

[HereSince1628]

18. This is why Congress needs access to Cheny's Energy Task Force

I imagine there are some interesting comments on the need to "secure" alternative sources of oil.

God, I just know that there is a Lake Mead hiding behind the dam of lies created by this administration. How to breach the dam?

[Minstrel Boy]

19. Here's what I told

someone who raised the same point yesterday.

Global oil production is about to peak, and when it does, petroleum will become, irreversibly, a sellers' market. Occupying the world's second largest oil reserves (for a start) means - according to plan - the difference between remaining a buyer and becoming a seller. Hence the privatization of Iraqi oil to US interests. The US would then be able to break OPEC, set prices, and bring other powers to heel.

An important document in understanding this is "The Bush/Cheney Energy Strategy: Implications for US Foreign and Military Policy", delivered at the annual meeting of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil in May, 2003 (http://www.peakoil.net/iwood2003/paper/KlarePaper.doc).

[never cry wolf]

22. Hey, that link is funny

my norton anti-virus said there was a destructive file on there, don't remember the exact wording but i don't want to try it again. freaked out my machine for a minute.

[amazona]

20. it's about having a beachhead in the middle east ...

We wanted to be able to keep our troops in the Middle East while conceding to Osama Bin Laden's demand after 9-11 that we remove our troops from the so-called holy land of Saudi Arabia. Therefore we targeted the secular -- and disarmed, therefore powerless -- nation of Iraq. It's about oil in the sense that controlling the Middle East is always about oil, but the pay-offs to Halliburton and the rest are just gravy in my humble opinion. The sad thing is that the Rove/Cheney administration has actually profited so hugely from losing the war against Al Queda. We need to keep the memory of 9-11 alive and keep people aware that Bush surrendered to Osama's demand instead of capturing Osama and bringing him to a full and public trial for funding the 9-11 murders.

We let ourselves get distracted too easily by the minutae.

[yowzayowzayowza]

21. If it weren't about oil...

we would have treated Iraq like Afghanistan.

[Sick of Bullshit]

24. And we aren't?

:shrug: