That pizza delivery guy freaky bomb thing? I gotta THEORY

[radwriter0555]

on that.

I think pizza guy set it up. I think he was the bad guy, and it all went wrong.

I mean come on, a daytime pizza delivery guy at age 40-something? that alone smells like LOSER, right?

He prolly had some help, some other moron; it'd be hard to fabricate all that gear alone.

Thoughts, info, conjecture?

[frylock]

1. the problem that i have with that..

why not just make a mock-up? Why would you use a real bomb?

[RebelOne]

17. Let's not bash 40-year-old pizza deliverymen

My 41-year-old son delivers pizzas at night to supplement his income.
And I have a friend who is 46 who delivers pizzas part-time for extra money.
That doesn't mean that they are losers.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

21. No, it just means a Republican is president.

an a complete moron at that.

[nostamj]

2. but...

he got away with the robbery.

why would he use real explosives??
why would he use real locks??

would really love to know what this thing was all about...

[radwriter0555]

31. he didn't get away with it. he was caught steps from the bank...

...

[nostamj]

33. he got away with the robbery

not the escape.

you still fail to address the KEY questions:

WHY live ammo?
WHY something he couldn't remove?

your scenerio just isn't logical... (imho)

[radwriter0555]

34. Well getting away with the robbery is the EASY part. A bank's policy is

about the employees, NOT the money. You let the guys get out the door.. You never prevent them from leaving, ever.

And logic sure isn't playing too much a part in this whole scene.

But you're right. Why use live ammo? Maybe cause he didn't know any better? If you're not a smart fellow, you don't know how to dupe something, all you know is from the real thing... But like I said, obviously he was working with someone else. Could be the other guy duped him, but he was going along with the scheme.

[El Mariachi]

41. reason:

"But you're right. Why use live ammo? Maybe cause he didn't know any better? If you're not a smart fellow, you don't know how to dupe something, all you know is from the real thing... But like I said, obviously he was working with someone else. Could be the other guy duped him, but he was going along with the scheme."

If you got caught, and the bomb squad found you had a fake bomb, then you may be a suspect.

[salmonhorse]

3. Super Stupid Criminals Trick ~

[salmonhorse]

16. Little Bomb Dog ~

http://www.dadadot.org/bd.htm

From their swoon to be chronicled: fUCk tHe PoOr tOUr!!!

[SayitAintSo]

4. A LOSER ? - I think not .....not in this economy my dear...

Your comment:

"a daytime pizza delivery guy at age 40-something? that alone smells like LOSER, right?"...

Well, it sounds kind of "republican" to me....

Or is it just me folks ?

[MuseRider]

6. Not just you

That was my first thought. Hell, people will do anything they have to to provide for their families or even just for themselves. Sorry, it was not a nice thing to say.

[bicentennial_baby]

12. Agreed

Way to make value judgements on a dead guy...how progressive :puke:

[radwriter0555]

32. You must have missed my shiny little star, my thousands of posts...

just cause I'm a hard ass doesn't mean I'm a republican. Last guy that called me that got slapped. And he was trying to troll me to register to vote.

[SayitAintSo]

40. I said your judgement SOUNDED republican....

SOUNDED, sweetie ... bit of a difference there. Glad you are touchy about it. Means there's hope...

[Junkdrawer]

5. Well, that "loser" built a pretty sophisticated device...

Pretty creepy - Manchurian Candidate type stuff.

[roughsatori]

7. You call a man a "loser" because you look down on his job

Then call him a "moron" when you have no other details about him. On top of that you convict him publicly due to his "loser" status. How sad to read that on a progressive board. The "rad" in your "DU-nick" obviously has nothing to do with being a radical progressive.

My father was a janitor for many years. I suppose you would have convicted him if you were on a jury and he was on trial for a crime he was innocent of committing. After all, he would deserve conviction for being 40 with 6 children and a "loser" job as a janitor.

That is the kind of post Right-Wingers are referring to when they call our side "elitists."

[liberalhistorian]

13. If I remember right, this poster also believes

in credit checks for all employees, no matter what the job, because she believes it shows what type of "character" (at least, according to her own definition of that) a person has, and because she believes most employees are out to cheat on their employers. Never mind if they won't be handling or be responsible for money at all in the job. Never mind if they've gone through a sudden job loss, illness, divorce, etc., that has caused them to get behind on bills and therefore affects their credit. Never mind if they don't have health insurance and most of the bad bills on their credit are medical bills for health issues that had to be taken care of regardless of whether or not they had the money. Never mind that, unless you're going to be dealing with or responsible for money in the job, it's really none of the employer's damn business!

And yes, I have known pizza delivery people in their forties and fifties, they actually make a lot more money than you think, particularly in tips, and most of them have lost jobs and have had to take whatever they can get!

[radwriter0555]

29. I missed the page in the DNC rulebook that said a person can't make

value judgements based on information.

Maybe you'll post that for us all sometime. I have the right to my opinions, and I'm rarely wrong. You might not like how I package my opinions, and you're entitled. But keep in mind you're making a value judgement on me for not being all nicey nice and polite.

As far as credit checks, etc? Business is business. It's all nice and all to be benevolent and compassionate; I'm all for it. If you had bothered to read more of my opinion on that matter, you'd have seen the parts where I suggested pension funds, monetary compensation reviews on a regular basis and so on. The person involved was hiring someone who would be in a position to RUIN him financially, were proper precautions not to be taken.

A person's background and secrets are important to know when deciding how far into your life or business you let them. Poor decisions based on bad information and lies cost people lives and cause financial ruin. I gave good advice on how that poster can protect himself and his business, which is what he was asking for. Using a credit check as a portional basis for deciding someone's character and integrity is just BUSINESS, and is an outstanding tool for verification of information. If there are unpaid bills related to medical issues, then the potential employee should have no problem explaining that without embarrassement. It's just business. Would you hire someone who lied? I sure wouldn't.

A person's financial status can be an indicator of stress as well as an indicator of potential criminal activity. Luckily MOST people are honest. Why take chances with the business you've worked for years to build?

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. It's just business.

[Logansquare]

37. Duh...credit ratings are a scam

Sorry to hijack, but that is so stupid I have to respond. According to the Public Interest Research Group, and later confirmed by Consumers Union (publisher of Consumer Reports), "twenty-nine percent (29%) of the credit reports contained serious errors - false delinquencies or accounts that did not belong to the consumer - that could result in the denial of credit." http://www.pirg.org/reports/consumer/mistakes/page1.htm

Yes, yes, credit reports are always accurate and correlate with "good character" (whatever that means), and pizza deliverymen are "losers."

By the way, the rest of you--get a copy of your credit reports every year!

[radwriter0555]

38. Your credit report is as accurate as you allow it to be. If you don't. as

you suggest, check it every year, sure, it can have all SORTS of crap on it.

It's just business. Personal business. You have to take care of your own.

So, 'stupid", as you put it? Hardly. Your credit report is a reflection of how you live your life. Tell someone with a low FICO score trying to get a decent interest rate any differently.

[liberalhistorian]

42. So if you're a rapist or thief or murderer,

and you have good or perfect credit, then that must mean you're okay, then. And if you are uninsured or underinsured and you or a family member has a serious health problem that needs treatment, and the horrendous medical bills go on your credit and you have to file bankruptcy to keep the poor, neglected, broke doctors and hospital administrators in their mansions and mercedes, then you're a horrible person. Okay, I get it now.

BTW, I've known some real assholes that totally lack character and that I would NEVER want to employ or be associated with personally, who have perfect or great credit.

[radwriter0555]

24. I did the math. He still comes up a loser, because in my opinion he was a

failed CROOK. Nothing lower on the totem pole than a failed crook.

[roughsatori]

28. "A failed Crook" You know this because you are psychic?

He is innocent until proven guilty.

Then you write: "Nothing lower on the totem pole than a failed crook." So you don't think convicted child-molesters and mass murders are lower then unconvicted "failed crooks" on the "totem
pole."

Ironic that you spout judgments that indicate the thinking processes of a real "loser." I am not saying you are a "loser." I would guess others are making that judgment for themselves based on your words.

[radwriter0555]

30. he's dead. he got caught by the cops steps away from the bank

which means he failed.

And he's dead.

Did I mention he's dead?

That's failure.

[roughsatori]

35. You lack of logic in this matter is astounding

The case is under investigation. It is not YET known if the man was forced to do this at the threat of death or if he did this all just as a ploy to rob a bank. If the facts eventually reveal that he was in fact robbing the bank, it will in no way justify your leaps of logic and classist assumptions.

In your original post you say he is a loser because of being a pizza delivery man. In later responses you start giving many other reasons--none of which have anything to do with your original assertion. Your logic indicates that you are not an intellectual elitist; but it is clear you are a faulty thinking Classist.

[radwriter0555]

39. I wasn't interested in discussing ME and the cute little names you want to

stick ON me, but in discussing the CASE.. hence the statement, "I gotta THEORY..."

Pointing out relevent facts on the case seems to have gone over some heads though.

[Andy_Stephenson]

8. No he didn't...you may want to look up

Operation Phoenix. It was the basis for Hoimeland Gestapo. They are pulling some crap IMHO.

[slappypan]

9. I dunno, it sounded mob-related to me

Just this lifelong Cook County resident's opinion.

[Andy_Stephenson]

10. I have a problem with this statement

"a daytime pizza delivery guy at age 40-something? that alone smells like LOSER, right?"

What if that was the only job he could find? Comeon...in this economy Pizza Delivery person does not equate to loser...I cannot believe you said that!

[AP]

11. The owner of the Pizza shop took the order and passed the phone

to the first employee he saw. The people who called the order had no idea who'd be sent out.

[lcordero]

14. loser????

Take a serious look at what kind of an economy we are in. I'll give the guy kudos just on the simple fact that he is out there trying to earn a living.
Showing contempt for the common person is not a good thing. His claim shed some light on another possibility as far as the conflict in the Middle East goes. The possibility is that Palestinians are concievably being forced to do suicide bombings by either of both parties involved.

[Bunny]

15. According to local media reports, he lived alone, with three cats.

He worked at the pizza place for about ten years. You can call him a loser if you want, but he seems pretty stable to me. The locking device was very sophisticated, the authorities said it was not "mass produced". I'd like to know what the hell that means. I mean, who "mass produces" home-made bombs?

Anyway, I believe the guy was an unwitting dupe, that the kidnapper detonated the bomb because the pizza guy was too long in returning (the cops had him sitting for at least an hour before it exploded). I do not think he did it himself, otherwise why use a live bomb? And, it could be suicide, but there sure as hell are easier ways to do it than this. Reports from the scene indicate that he was pleading with the cops to get the bomb off of him.

I think he was set up, I just can't figure out why in the world this was done in Erie. We're not talking big metro area here. Erie is relatively small.

It's interesting that his co-worker and friend was found dead three days later. There were drugs in his system, but they haven't released the cause of death yet. Maybe the guy had something to do with it, and couldn't take it anymore, and killed himself?

Very weird.

[radwriter0555]

26. I always say there are no coincidences... and the two incidents just

have to be related somehow...

Crimes are rarely random. Victims of violence are rarely random, and in fact, the violence comes mostly from family members.

Why choose a random guy who wouldn't have the smarts to get away?
But on the other hand, it might make sense to pick a random person, known TO you, but not by you, to perp a crime like this, see if it works, right?

If this was perped by a party unknown to the victim, how did he make his decision to use this guy, or a pizza guy? What played into his choice?

This article has interesting info... (goes into detail how unmotivated dude was, but he wasn't a loser or anything)...
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/pizza_deaths030903.html

McCabe said the explosive was not typically the kind found in America, and added that the only place he had seen the explosive used before was Bogota, Colombia.

Wells lived a quiet life, enjoying reality TV and his cats, said Payne, who also said that she loaned him money so that he could get the car he needed for his job as a pizza delivery man, even though he at one time seemed to have a drinking problem. If he hadn't had a car to deliver pizzas, he wasn't going to do anything," she said.

hmmm.....

[rucky]

18. Didn't You Hear What He Told The Bomb Squad?...

...He was pleading with them. "It's not me!" Why would those be his last words if he were on some sort of "get away with it or die" mission a-la North Hollywood bank robbery.

All I can say is, whatever Pizza Guys get paid to do their job, it's not enough considering all the wierd things that happen to them. Remember the two kids in NJ a couple years ago who ordered a pizza and killed the delivery guy just for the hell of it? How about the bodybuilder who assaulted the pizza guy for no reason, then claimed steroid use as his defense? This stuff happens all the time.

Cabbies and deliverypeople should be honored just as much as cops and firefighters, who risk their lives every day to serve us and get shit fer pay. May not be as noble of a profession, but few professions are noble.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. he also begged them to "please hurry, hurry i haven't got much time"

strange words for a criminal to make

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. seen 2 movies that had this issue as plots..i don't think he did it

can't recall the titles but in one movie the guy is on a public phone and he is held hostage and made to look like the killer and the other flick was a mel gibson film where they snatched his daughter and forced him to kill a politician...:shrug:

[robsul82]

23. Those were...

...Phone Booth, with Colin Farrell, and Nick of Time, starring Johnny Depp and the legendary cowbell lover himself, Mr. Christopher Walken.

Later.

RJS

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. robsul82 thanks...would love to have you on my team when playing

"trivia pursuit"...i suck in "arts and enterainment"

[BlackRhino]

20. I have met quite a few decent, intelligent, over-40 food delivery people.

Back when I used to order way too much food.

[salmonhorse]

25. I can't even get Chinese food here downtown...

...outside a certain radius to said Chinese Kitchen. All those delivery guys know their routes very well. In many cases they are local guys. I'd like to see a aerial map and pull a Sherlock Holmes on the whole number.

[bitchkitty]

36. Loser?

What an elitist thing to say. If a man will forgo his dignity in this economy to put food on his family's table, and take a job as a pizza delivery man, loser is not the word that springs to mind.

It must be nice to be in a position that you can sneer at another person's choices.

[osaMABUSh]

43. My hometown, Erie, Pa. has made the news lately

Erie is a true blue collar town, beer, bowling and factories (what's left of them). Erie made the cover of USA Today last week as the second lowest monthly apartment rent in the nation. There ain't alot of recovery going on there.

OK, the guy was not a 'loser' but at that stage in life (40 something) he certainly wasn't living high off the hog as a pizza guy. He may have had some debt issues and was running around with wrong people. There have been some bizaare crimes in that town over the years. So he gets roped into pulling off this robbery where the con men tell him one thing and dupe into thinking he'll come out with some cash.

Desperate times for some I guess.

[DoNotRefill]

44. pizza delivery....

can be a decent job if you have few marketable skills. I used to average around $125-150 each 8 hour shift in tips on top of minimum wage and gas money. Of course, I busted my ass...

Looking down on people because they perform any kind of labor demeans ALL labor. Just because somebody makes their living digging ditches or delivering pizza doesn't make them a loser.

BTW, most bank robbers don't beg for the police to help them and then blow their own heads off with a bomb.

[Forkboy]

45. I got a theory too

you're a bozo.

[chookie]

46. My speculation

Mr Wells was a high school dropout, perhaps low intelligence or perhaps even mildly retarded, who had worked steadily and dependably in a job requiring minimal skills. (Calling such a man a "loser" is pretty cruel....)

What is striking to me is that the devices used were of home manufacture -- when ANYONE in the USA can get their hands on the gun of their wildest dreams to commit a crime. That sure rules out mob/career criminal/terrorist types.

The "collar" component is of industrial manufacture -- items like this are used to organize cables or pipes -- it could have been found as a scrap while "dumpster diving" for metal to use in home projects, and was recognized by the person who found it as capable of performing as a locked collar. (Apparently such a collar appeared in an episode of CSI Miami.) The metal box the timer was housed in showed that whoever made it had access to metal shop tools, and small skill with metal forming techniques. The metal appeared to be the same sort as used in steel office furniture. The timing device I have no detailed info about....

Mr Wells was said to have carried a cane-like object into the bank, which was found in his car after his death. It was actually a kind of home-made firearm in the shape of a walking cane, which was capable of firing one shot. ***Why make something like that when guns are so easy and cheap to obtain??*** Answer that, and you have the key to the perpetrators....

So what sort of people have it as their hobby to fashion things like locking collars, bombs with timers, and homemade crude firearms? Sounds like we are talking about young men, perhaps teenagers, with interest, if not actual ties, to right wing militia/white supremacy groups who have obtained written materials on the fabrication of simple hand made explosive devices and firearms, whose manufacture of such handcrafted devices "shows" how outside of society and government they are (i.e. they think of themselves as outlaws apart from society, "self-sufficient" who were now attempting to bankroll their ambitions by hitting banks). Who knows -- like the anthrax assassin, they may have had it in mind to pin the blame on Arabs or Muslims. (Mr Wells said a "dark-skinned male" put the device on him.)

To build a firearm like looks like a cane, that fires only one shot? Hmmm. Think what *that* could be used for, if brought into a crowd, or to a parade, etc....

I think most of the "bizarre" details of the crime will eventually turn out to be STUPID miscalculations by the guys who fabricated the weapons. The creeps who made this stuff, and who organized this crime, are the "losers" -- misfits and assholes who fantasize about themselves as great outlaws and think they can pull off a crime like this and think nothing of sending a simple soul like Mr Wells to his death.

We're not talking about rocket scientists here -- we're talking about probably two right-leaning assholes, possibly teenagers, who are at this time both enjoying the mayhem they have caused, and scared to death about inevitability of getting caught. Either *they* will talk -- brag to someone, or else out of fear try to get it off their chest by telling someone else to turn the other guy in -- and this is probably how they will be caught. Probably local guys -- they may have known Mr Wells from the pizza shop to be someone of limited intelligence who could be easily made the victim of their plot.