What is the main reason you dislike Lieberman?

[ButterflyBlood]

Poll question: What is the main reason you dislike Lieberman?

let's see how much truth there is to the anti-semetism allegations

[Blue_Chill]

1. How about the fact that

He wants to change democratic economics to that of the GOP? This man is barely a democrat, if I could I'd kick his ass right out of the blue tent.

[ButterflyBlood]

3. that would fall under corporatist policies

[liberalhistorian]

2. That's a tough one, since the first five

are all equally repugnant to me. But his unqualified support of many of Shrub's and Asskroft's positions and actions, and his lack of understanding as to how they are totally damaging the country have to take the cake.

[Walt Starr]

4. Seperation of Church and state

and his failure to recognize this is what has made religion so free in the United States.

[Kolesar]

23. Yes. And it is not because he is Jewish

That preaching at the 2000 convention was totally unnecessary. I liked when earlier in the campaign, Bill Bradley refused to answer questions about his religion.

[Walt Starr]

56. I was behind Bradley in the 2000 primaries

Unfortunately, it didn't amount to a hill of beans by the time Illinois had its primary...

[Julien Sorel]

5. How about,

he wouldn't stand a chance in a general election against Bush? That's the only reason I dislike the guy.

[xJlM]

6. What got me started...

His lack of support of Al Gore in the 2000 election made him a marked man in my book. And he's done nothing to redeem himself in my view.

[LuLu550]

7. Bush Lite

way too conservative for me. I also think he is unelectable...not "telegenic" enough, so conservative most dems don't like him, but a "dem" so Repukes wouldn't vote for him, either.

[ButterflyBlood]

8. A Lieberman candidacy is Nader's wet dream

[damnraddem]

26. Hear, hear.

A Lieberman candidacy would definitely mean that my vote wouldn't go Dem.

[HFishbine]

9. Other

I could respect the man for having the opinions he does, but he's in the wrong party. I dislike him because he's trying to move the dems to the right at a time when I think we need a real opposition party.

[IndianaGreen]

10. I think that the person that voted for "his religion"

is the same one that keeps accusing Lieberman critics of anti-Semitism.

Discuss.

:evilgrin:

[ButterflyBlood]

12. or a freeper lurker

[StandWatie]

14. he who cannot be named

;-)

Someone is thinking "They are talking about me!"

[IndianaGreen]

21. There is more than one

and they all berate anyone to the left of Lieberman. They were among a handful of cheerleaders for the Iraq war, and at least one of them is openly supporting Lieberman (at least I give him credit for being open about it).

[StandWatie]

24. there is only one..

that jumps into threads and assumes people are talking about him specifically.

[ButterflyBlood]

31. anyone I've seen with a Lieberman avatar

has been tombstoned in less than a day

[ComerPerro]

11. You missed one

How about his attacks on Dean and Kucinich? How about his attack on everyone running for the Democratic nomination who happens to be to the left of Bush?

[kysrsoze]

115. Another: going after violent videogames when he personally

supported real death/dismemberment in the Middle East. He's a complete lying, Repub bootlicker scumf*ck.

[jos]

13. Do we only get one choice?

There are so many, it's hard to pick just one. And no, none have to do with his religion.

[noonwitch]

15. Because he looks and talks like the guy from "Alf"?

No, mainly because of his total support for the Bush/Ashcroft way of doing things.
Although, I could not sit through any speech or press conference that guy would give, because his voice is so annoying.

[kysrsoze]

116. Ummm, Willy had much more charm and charisma

You need to apologize for that.

[TheYellowDog]

180. hehe

The alf part is true, no matter what you think of Lieberman.

[dolstein]

16. Backstabbing of Al Gore?

Just like Judas backstabbed Jesus?

Gimme a break. Nobody worked harder to elect Al Gore (other than Al himself) than Joe Lieberman. If it weren't for Lieberman, there's no way the race in Florida would have been as close as it was.

I just love it how all the DU'ers around here try to blame Lieberman for Gore's loss, as opposed to certain person *COUGH - Nader - COUGH* who actively worked to defeat Gore.

[Samuraimad]

17. Option 7 should be All of the above.

Find better allies with the moderate republicans.

[IndianaGreen]

27. Yep, I think there should be an "all of the above" option on the poll

It is hard to tell why I dislike Lieberman the most. I know that his parroting of Bill Bennett's virtues is one of the reasons why I dislike the gnome from Connecticut, but I also dislike everything this man has said against traditional Democrats. Lieberman is a Rockefeller Republican in search of a party.

[dolstein]

18. His complete support of most of Ashcroft's policies?

Excuse me, but Lieberman voted AGAINST the Ashcroft nomination. And the implication that the justice department under a Lieberman presidency would be no different that today's justice department is ridiculous. But I suppose no lie is too flagrant when it comes to trashing Lieberman.

[Walt Starr]

19. Um, this is a poll about why people dislike Lieberman

If this is the perception, it counts.

Perception is everything in politics.

[dolstein]

29. Sorry, but DU'ers should hold themselves to higher standards

If DU'ers are going to hate a politician -- and a Democratic politician, no less -- they should at least do so based on the facts.

I for one don't consider it acceptable to stand idly by when people deliberately lie about Joe Lieberman. Let's leave the lying to Republicans.

Somehow I don't believe you'd be so sanguine if similar lies were posted about, say, John Kerry or Howard Dean. Surely, if someone said they hated Howard Dean because he was an abortionist before becoming governor, you'd make an effort to correct the record. Careful Will, your hypocrisy is showing.

[Walt Starr]

30. The fact is, he DOES support much of * and Ashcroft's policies

So that is a valid choice and second behind the seperation of chruch and state to me.

[dolstein]

37. Sorry Will, but you haven't established any facts so far

All you've said is that Lieberman supports much of Ashcroft's policies. But the only facts that have been introduced so far is that Lieberman voted for the Patriot Act (along with all but one other Democratic senator) and supports another bill with which I (along with most other DU'ers, I'd suspect) are completely unfamiliar.

If I've learned anything from the Republican tactics during the past decade or so, it's that repeating an unsubstantiated claim over and over again may make it conventional wisdom, but it doesn't make it true.

Sorry Will, but if you aren't prepared to back up your statements with cold, hard facts, you ought not make them. Again, I have a hard time believe that you would be so casual and flippant if someone chose to you the same tactics you're employing now against Kerry or Dean.

[Walt Starr]

40. Musta been that EVIL Lieberman from an alternate universe

pushing Gephardt out of the way in the rose garden for the photo op over the Iraq war.

:shrug:

[Walt Starr]

42. BTW, I'm Walt, not Will

Will doesn't like Walt a lot these days.

:evilgrin:

[dolstein]

47. I can understand why

NT

[Walt Starr]

50. Ahhhh, holding opinions that differ from yours equates to dislike

Nice to know how tolerant you are.

I'm opinionated and unafraid of expressing it. IMO, Lieberman is a dickhead who should be drummed out of the Democratic Party.

[IndianaGreen]

58. Lieberman is a schmuck and a putz

An asshole and a dick, in Yiddish.

[dolstein]

64. As who who has advocated violence against Lieberman in the past

I suppose I should applaud you for toning down your remarks. Then again, may not.

[Walt Starr]

66. Citation please

Cite the post where IG advocated violence against Lieberman.

[dolstein]

72. Is there a way to search posts that have been deleted?

I'd be more than happy to oblige Walt, except that given the stink I raised about that particular post -- which was beyond the pale even for IG -- it was switfly deleted by the administrator.

[Walt Starr]

74. Mighty convenient

You made the claim, back it up.

[IndianaGreen]

75. Prove it

as you have proven your assertions that Iraq had WMD!

[Walt Starr]

77. It's interesting when you lay out reasons why you think Lieberman

is a REpublican in Democratic clothing, all that gets flung back are accusations and the "anti-semitism" card.

[dolstein]

78. Are you seriously denying the substance of my claims?

Oh, c'mon IG. You used to post some of the most obnoxious screeds about Lieberman. Now you are content to simply call him an asshole and a dickhead.

As you are well aware, I'm not making this up. You did post a statement to the effect that you wished someone would inflict bodily harm on "that worthless sack of shit." In response, I posted about how amazed I was that nobody around DU found it objectionable that someone was advocating violence against Lieberman, and that people wouldn't be so complacent if similar sentiments were expressed about a gay Democrat or an African American Democrat. Now you may claim that you stopped short of advocating violence, but obviously the administrators found something highly objectionable about the post, because it was quickly removed.

[Walt Starr]

83. You made the claims, you are under the burden of proof

Citation please or I will have to dismiss it as an unfounded accusation.

[IndianaGreen]

84. I didn't advocate violence

just because you and your DLC friends pestered the admin with your whining, it doesn't prove anything anymore than the post you had deleted that was titled "Fuck the base!"

[StopTheMorans]

85. alright, you didn't reply to my post earlier, but this is really getting

out of hand. If you're going to make veiled accusations against nearly everyone on here who doesn't like Lieberman, then why don't you just come out and say what you have implied very clearly in your last few posts to Walt and IG, namely, that anyone who doesn't like Lieberman for any reason is a virulent anti-semite. Why waste the time beating around the bush?

[dolstein]

96. Why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

I never said that anyone who doesn't like Lieberman for any reason is an anti-Semite. I've never denied that their are reasons for disliking Lieberman, just as their are reasons for disliking Dean, Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, etc. It's those people who are unable to justify their dislike without resorting to lies who trouble me. And even where there are grounds for disliking him, I simply cannot comprehend why people would hate Lieberman with every bit as much intensity as they hate Bush. I simple find no rational basis for that. No matter how many times DU'ers repeat the claim, Lieberman is not Bush. He's not even Bush lite. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by these claims. After all, people said the same thing about Al Gore in 2000. But it still amazes (and yes, saddens) me that even people who claim to be Democrats still fall for that crap.

If someone said "I'm a dove. Lieberman's a hawk. I hate hawks. Therefore I hate Lieberman." I wouldn't have a problem with that. Their feelings would be perfectly rational, and there really is no denying that on defense matters, Lieberman's a hawk. I would, however, question that person's motives if they claimed to like Gephardt, who is no less a hawk than Lieberman. I would say, with ample justification, that this person is using a double standard, and I would certainly be justified in questioning the sincerity of their claims.

Likewise, if someone said "I'm a left-wing Democrat. Lieberman's a moderate. I hate all moderates. Therefore I hate Lieberman," I wouldn't have a problem with that either. Personally, I belive that Lieberman's more of a liberal than a moderate, especially on social issues, but frankly that's nitpicking. But again, if that same person claimed to like Bob Graham, or Bill Clinton -- each of whom is clearly a moderate and not a left-wing Democrat, it would be pretty obvious to be that the person was using a double standard.

What I have a problem with is people who are unable to justify their opposition to Lieberman based on facts. People who say -- "I hate Lieberman, he's a right-wing Republican" -- are, to put it bluntly, full of shit. Lieberman's no right-wing Republican. The facts simply do not support that claim. And people who repeat that claim ad nauseum in face of the overwhelming evidence to the contary obviously have some very serious personal issues they need to deal with.

And the sad fact is, very few people even bother to justify their hated of Lieberman on any rational grounds. Perhaps it's because they're simply too lazy, or feel that when it comes to Lieberman, everything's fair game and they are under no obligation to justify their statements no matter how outrageous.

Returning once again to the question of anti-Semitism -- many people claim that they cannot be anti-Semitic, either because they have friends who are Jewish, or are Jewish themselves. Personally, I think anti-Semitism encompasses an irrational hatred of a person based on their religious PRACTICES and BELIEFS, as opposed to simply their religious heritage. The fact that you like secular Jews in no way excuses an irrational hatred of orthodox Jews. And the fact that Lieberman is an orthodox Jew clearly sets him apart in the minds of many people from more secular Jews. And judging from the often violent tone of the anti-Lieberman posts, the casual use of slurs against him, and the persistent refusal to even acknowledge the volume of facts which contradict the "Lieberman is a Republican" charge convinces me that their is an irrational hatred of Lieberman, and his religious practices seem to me the most plausible source. There is simply no denying that there are things said about Lieberman that would never be tolerated if they were said against any other Democrat. And it's not as if there haven't been flagrantly anti-Semitic messages posted on DU. There have been, and I've opposed the deletion of these posts on the simple ground that people do need the ocassional reminder that anti-Semitism does indeed exist.

As for specific DU'ers, I would certainly be prepared to name two people who I consider to be anti-Semites (not necessarily the ones you may be thinking of, by the way), were it not for the fact that such a post would all but guarantee my permanent expulsion from DU. I'm sure that nothing would give these people greater pleasure than that. So pardon me if I don't take the bait.

[tinnypriv]

103. Kudos

:thumbsup:

BTW, I'm a Kucinich fan, and my friends in the U.S. support Dean. From what I've seen, Lieberman does get a raw deal on a lot of issues. Kudos on the rational and spirited defence.

[Walt Starr]

111. I honestyly believe there are no regular DUers who are anti-semitic

Although I am also certain there are irtrational people on DU who cry "anti-semite" at the mere hint of disagreement with Israel or Lieberman.

[jiacinto]

162. I disagree

Go to the I/P forum--you'll find plenty of antisemtism there.

[Ediacara]

114. Dolstein

give it up.

If you won't name them then STFU already. If you are THAT concerned, why don't ytou write a letter to Skinner rather than playing the anti-Semite card?

We've ALL called your bluff, now show your damn cards!

[dolstein]

121. Sorry to disappoint you

But I am NOT going to stop calling the bluff of DU'ers who embrace all the lies and hatred that gets spewed in Lieberman's direction.

The cyber-lynching of Joe Lieberman that has continued unabated for the past two years -- and, if anything, has only gotten more viscious as time goes on -- is flat-out wrong. The Democratic Party I believe in does not support scapegoating. It does not support the smear tactics that are routinely used against Lieberman. That's for the Republicans -- Democrats are supposed to be better than that.

Perhaps you find it comforting to use Lieberman as some kind of all-purpose bogeyman. Perhaps you find trashing Lieberman to be easier than having a rational discussion of the relative merits of all the candidates. What ever your reasons, I for one will insist on treating this Democratic official with the respect he has earned through his life-long commitment to public service and Democratic values.

[jiacinto]

126. Good post, Dolstein

And you are about the "cyber-lynching of Joe Liberman". It has gone on way too long.

[Ediacara]

134. who's an anti-Semite dolstein?

WHICH ONE OF US!? We've given you hundreds upon hundreds of reasons we don't like him many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many times.

Your only answer:

"DUers are anti-Semites!"

You have never responded to the MEAT of the matter that DUers have serious concerns about Joe Lieberman's positions on key issues, you only prop up the anti-Semite straw man.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

Who's an anti-Semite and why!?

If you can't respond, then you'd better respond to those people who have listed their valid reasons for disliking Lieberman.

[Ediacara]

174. well?

still no answer? You said before there were only two anti-Semites, it shouldn't take you that long to type out there names...

Or perhaps you're just ignoring cogent points and back-pedalling as usual....

[Iverson]

161. "supposed to be better than that"

Does this apply to discourse with Greens as well, or does the appeal to principle merely veil an appeal to partisanship? America wants to know.

[StopTheMorans]

163. Dolstein, you completely avoided the issue AGAIN

and you ignored my post from earlier AGAIN. If you would have looked at that, I basically stated, wait, I'll just post it again for you so you can read it for yourself:

"people don't hate Lieberman for one reason (if they did, then your war vote argument <i.e. the one issue argument> would hold up). People hate Lieberman because he consistently votes for MOST of the things that piss people in party off. I'm not saying that he hasn't done some good things (insert your "civil rights, education, etc..." arguments here), but he consistently votes on the far-right spectrum of what could even be considered a democratic platform. His campaign theme should be:

HI, I'M JOE LIEBERMAN, AND I'M FROM THE ZELL MILLER WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Don't try and oversimplify why people hate Lieberman, there are too many reasons, and no other dem. candidate comes even CLOSE to espousing as many assinine view as Lieberman possesses. IMHO."

You missed the point again. People hate Lieberman for a plethora of reasons,namely, that he supports many policies that most in the democratic establishment abhor. People here hate Zell Miller too, and criticize him whenever he pops his head above the radar, but who is defending him Dolstein? Do they hate him b/c he is a Christian? NO, they simply hate him b/c his policies are destructive to the democratic party. The only reason that Lieberman gets more venom directed at him is b/c he is a prominent member of the Dem. party and is in contention for the nomination. If Zell Miller were as prominent as Lieberman, people here would hate him just as much. Sorry, but your arguments don't hold up, and you keep falling back on the anti-semite card when you can't fall back on facts.

on edit: subject-verb agreement

[dolstein]

63. I have no problem with people holding different opinions

It's people who embrace and perpetuate lies that I cannot stand. An opinion that is rooted in falsehoods doesn't merit respect. If someone said "I hate Howard Dean because he opposes the Brady Law" or someone said "I hate John Kerry because he belongs to a discriminatory country club", I'd be the first to correct them. Lies aren't any more justified when they're directed against someone who you find unsympathetic.

One of the reasons I'm a Democrat is because I despise bigotry in all its forms. And bigotry can thrive only when people of good conscience stand idly by as others use lies as a weapon. The double standard that is routinely applied to Lieberman on DU contnues to exist only because most DU'ers simply can't be bothered to correct all the lies and slurs that are hurled in his direction. That is not the kind of behavior I expect from fellow Democrats. Republicans lie. Democrats are supposed to stand on the side of truth and reason. But when it comes to Lieberman, truth and reason go out the window.

[Walt Starr]

65. I do not believe there is a double standard on Lieberman at DU

Lieberman is treated just how we would treat any other Republican.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

73. Playing the bigotry card, that's mighty small

Pretty despicable if you ask me. You do not know me and you do not know what causes I have been involved with nor have you bothered to find out how I stand on issues of import.

Instead, because I see Lieberman as a low down despicable Republican in Democratic clothing, you haul out the "anti-semite" card.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

86. Oh for myth's sake

I don't think much more needs to be said than that.

[Ediacara]

117. "An opinion that is rooted in falsehoods doesn't merit respect."

Then stop repeating the lie that DUers (and me specifically) are anti-Semites. Don't you see what a hypocrite you are!?

Get off it man...... If you won't name names or at least write a fucking letter to the admins outlining EXACTLY why they're anti-Semites, then STFU!

[jiacinto]

118. I think Dolstein is more correct than you want to admit

It's obvious because only Lieberman gets singled out for being pro-Israel when every other Democrat running shares the same psoition.

Dolstien is a great DUer. And you know better than to be insulting him.

[Forkboy]

119. Oh go away

[dolstein]

122. Is that the best you can do?

Sounds like the response of someone who knows deep down that their position is indefensible.

[Forkboy]

123. LMAO

give it up...you've shown what a fool you are with the Nazi reference.

Is that the best you can do?

[jiacinto]

128. See

The facts don't matter to people when it comes to Lieberman.

[Forkboy]

132. See

You have ONE person who agrees with you :D

[Ediacara]

137. position is indefensible?

like nameless DUers are anti-Semites?

[Ediacara]

136. he's 100% wrong Carlos

he has danced around calling me an anti-Semite many times before and I don't think he's anything close to a "great DUer" because of that. He constantly relies on the anti-Semite strawman to avoid discussing REAL problems with Lieberman.

People don't like Lieberman for good reasons, none of which are "he's a Jew."

[Forkboy]

138. You're wasting your time with Carlos

he thinks Dolstein is a visionary.

[Ms. Clio]

142. this is a long thread so maybe you missed it

(Here's a cold, hard fact for you. However, I won't hold my breath waiting for a reasonable answer from either you or Jiacinto to the question of why Lieberman supported TIPS, when even many REPUBLICANS opposed it)


From the New Haven Register on August 2, 2002

"Lieberman backing Spies 'R' Us program

WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman, D-Conn., has endorsed a controversial new government program that critics say encourages Americans to spy on one another.
Lieberman said he wants to make sure people's civil rights are not violated, but he does not favor a complete ban of the program, which some senators are demanding.

<snip>

U.S. Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., asked Lieberman to prohibit the federal government from beginning the TIPS program. But a spokesman for Leahy said it was clear once committee debate on the bill began that the prohibition would not be included in the bill.

Leahy, in a letter to Lieberman and U.S. Sen. Fred Thompson, R-Tenn., likened TIPS to the American Protective League, a Justice Department program created during World War I.

That program enrolled 250,000 citizens in more than 600 cities to report suspicious activities and spy on workers and unions in thousands of plants with defense contracts. Members carried badges and ID cards and were accused of acts of intimidation and beatings.



"No other one cause contributed so much to the oppression of innocent men as the systematic and indiscriminate agitation against what was claimed to be an all-pervasive system of German espionage," said Leahy in his letter."

[ButterflyBlood]

143. if I recall correctly

the man most responsible for killing TIPS is none other than Dick Armey.

And Lieberman was in favor of it. What does that tell you?

[Ms. Clio]

145. That's right I had forgotten that Dastardly Dick

Actually was constitutionally correct about something for once in his miserable career!

[ButterflyBlood]

146. and it was the last thing he ever did in office

just at the end he found some way to slightly redeem himself above the level of pond scum

[IndianaGreen]

148. So, in regards to TIPS, Holy Joe is to the right of Dick Armey

and to the right of Bob Barr, who has also opposed some of the more radical proposals from Ashcroft.

I do believe that Barr and Armey went to work for ACLU as consultants on civil liberties.

If Lieberman is to the right of Bob Barr and Dick Armey, there is no political label that could be applied to him that would be acceptable in polite circles.

[IndianaGreen]

25. Lieberman supports the PATRIOT Act, and the proposed VICTORY Act

Support for Ashcroft policies is support for Ashcroft.

How's Holy Joe doing on the polls, dolstein?

[dolstein]

32. The Senate voted 99-1 for the Patriot Act

So presumably you'd agree that Senators Kerry, Graham and Edwards also embrace Ashcroft's policies.

I'm not familiar with the proposed Victory Act, but I'm sure that if Lieberman supports it, a large number of other Democrats support it as well. You'd be hard pressed to find a high profile vote on which Lieberman has broken with his Democratic colleagues. Every Democrat in the Senate except for Feingold joined Lieberman in voting for the PATRIOT Act. And a solid majority of Democratic senators jointed Lieberman in voting for the war resolution. That's the truth. But I guess the truth doesn't matter around here, at least when it comes to Lieberman.

[ButterflyBlood]

35. Lieberman voted for a school vouchers program

that only 2 other Democrats did. Zell Miller voted against it, as did some ultra right wing Republicans like Mike Crapo, Kit Bond, Conrad Burns and both senators from Wyoming.

[dolstein]

39. Cite please

I know that Lieberman voted for an experimental vouchers program years ago, and that Bill Bradley had also voted for it. But that was before Zell Miller was in the senate.

Please provide the cite.

[ButterflyBlood]

44. here

http://capwiz.com/cwf/issues/votes/?chamber=S&congress=1071&votenum=179&tally=1

it's also worth noting he has a higher lifetime ACU rating than Mary Landrieu.

[Forkboy]

129. ouch

that has to hurt.

[StopTheMorans]

43. Exactly, Dolstein, look at Butterfly Blood's post, it says it all

people don't hate Lieberman for one reason (if they did, then your war vote argument <i.e. the one issue argument> would hold up). People hate Lieberman because he consistently votes for MOST of the things that piss people in party off. I'm not saying that he hasn't done some good things (insert your "civil rights, education, etc..." arguments here), but he consistently votes on the far-right spectrum of what could even be considered a democratic platform. His campaign theme should be:

HI, I'M JOE LIEBERMAN, AND I'M FROM THE ZELL MILLER WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Don't try and oversimplify why people hate Lieberman, there are too many reasons, and no other dem. candidate comes even CLOSE to espousing as many assinine view as Lieberman possesses. IMHO.

on edit: fixed redundant wording

[goobergunch]

82. I voted for the Iraq hawkishness option...

and also agree with the moralistic option.

It is an interesting fact that Lieberman was one of the major factors behind the passage of the Gulf War resolution...if it hadn't been for him, it might have not passed. (source: The Almanac of American Politics 2004, page 339)

[damnraddem]

20. There are too many reasons, I can't just pick one.

Well, OK, his current hawkishness on Iraq is a biggie; but his lack of respect for separation of church and state, pro-corporate views, and support for limiting civil rights add to the equation.

That some pick his religion as a reason to oppose him IS a disgrace.

[catpower2000]

22. Because he's a Republican, near as I can tell...nt

[Qutzupalotl]

28. His grating voice

makes him unelectable, IMO.

Election 2000 notwithstanding. :)

[JustJoe]

33. Joe Lieberman, the Sedative from Connecticut.

He's soporific. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

[buddhamama]

34. there are a few positions

that Lieberman holds that are a total black eye in my book.

Seperation between Church and State issues.
vouchers,support of Faith Based Iniatives,etc, and he holds atheists in contempt.

He is a moralizer--His stance on the First Ammendment,need i say more(?)

He is a kiss-ass to the corporations.

He is, in my opinion, a war-monger.

[Walt Starr]

36. I wish there was a polling system that allowed multiple choices

The Church/State stances of Lieberman make him totally unacceptable in my book, but do many of the above listed choices resonate.

[IrateCitizen]

38. I can think of three main reasons

1. His closeness with corporate interests, and acting on their behalf. Following the corporate crime wave of the past couple of years, Joe has repeatedly warned against "coming down too hard" on the business world. I happen to think that a massive defraudment of the retirement savings of millions of workers is a pretty damned good reason to crack down on the business world.

2. His self-righteous hawkishness, especially vis-a-vis Israel.

3. His complete disdain for anything resembling populism, and his complete absence of anything approaching passion. I still want to see someone who isn't afraid to get people fired up -- and it IS capable to do that without sounding shrill or unbalanced.

In short, Joe Lieberman really isn't THAT far away from being an old-school NE Republican (soft on social issues, yet fiscally conservative). I heard it said once that when he beat Lowell Weicker, it was a rare instance of a Democrat beating a Republican and the seat actually shifting slightly to the right. In the current climate, he's far from conservative -- but he's also far from being anything approaching an "old school" Democrat.

[ButterflyBlood]

41. Weicker is far more liberal than Lieberman

I'd vote for him over Holy Joe in a heartbeat.

[dolstein]

54. Bullshit

Weicker voted for a Republican Senate leader for 18 years. Lieberman never did that.

And if you look at their voting record, Weicker is at best marginally more liberal than Lieberman. I suppose you give Weicker bonus points for being soft on Castro (a stance that led many conservatives to back Lieberman against Weicker in that race), but overall, there's not a big difference between the two.

[ButterflyBlood]

57. There are some years when Weicker was even more liberal than Dodd

http://www.conservative.org/new_ratings/1984/sen_alin.html
http://www.conservative.org/new_ratings/1986/sen_alin.html
http://www.conservative.org/new_ratings/1988/sen_alin.html

and to my knowledge Weicker has endorsed Dean.

[tom_paine]

45. Another divisive post by Butterflyblood

Not that I am surprised in the least.

Tell me, BB, do you EVER post anything not divisive?

Just curious.

[Walt Starr]

46. What's so divisive about this thread?

Most DUers despise Lieberman.

[StopTheMorans]

51. I agree, I think it's one of the ONLY things that most DUer's can unite

on at this point before the primaries have started:)

[ButterflyBlood]

53. dislike of Lieberman is probably the 2nd most universal stance on DU

#1 is a little obvious, but I'll just say that it's dislike of a certain other person...

[Walt Starr]

59. I think if the other eight candidates ran under the

"Vote for me, I'm not Lieberman" platform, it would eb a tossup as to which one would actually get the nomination.

;)

[tom_paine]

61. I just wish occasionally I'd read something supportive from you, BB

It always seems to be non-constructive tearing-down I see from you. And for you or any other poster who is uniformly non-constructive (in my opinion, of course, and given that I haven't read every single one of your posts), I will alwyas call them on it.

We need to unite against Tyranny, otherwisewise we shall follow the German model of division and defeat when faced with Totalitarian Monsters Cannibalizing a Former Republic (even if they are "kinder and gentler" Totalitarian Monsters).

[dolstein]

67. Well, we saw how well it united Germany

I for one am sickened that people would seek to unify DU'ers around a shared hatred of Joe Lieberman. How sad. How pathetic. God forbid we should ever stand for someone positive.

If for one will have no part of it. I dont believe in scapegoating. Never have. And the Democratic Party I believe in doesn't stand for it either.

[Walt Starr]

68. DU started over hatred for Bush

And low and behold, most DUers despise Lieberman too.

These were independent factors. and quite frankly, your historical references are insulting and possibly a violation of DU rules.

[IndianaGreen]

76. The Democratic Party you believe in is Al From's abomination

that backstabbed Al Gore during the recount, scuttled Gore's campaign in 2002, endorsed the Bush agenda for America from the tax cuts to the PNAC wars, and that accused the Democratic base of being leftwing elitists (a total oxymoron).

[Forkboy]

79. even for Dolstein

comparing this to Nazi Germany is just absurd.

[Walt Starr]

80. Amazingly, the post remains

Oh the hypocrisy...

[tom_paine]

87. You cannot compare the dislike of Lieberman to Nazi Germany

Not at all. And need I say that if you are looking for parallels to Nazi Germany, might I suggest

9/11 vs. Reichstag Fire
PATRIOT ACT vs. Enabling Act
The Parasitization and Ultimate Takeover of Mainstream Media by By Party Sub-Media in both eras -- "gleitschlaung" (also comparable to the Afrikaner Broederbund of 1947) I believe was the term used in Germany

The nearly identical demonization/dehumanization language used by Goebbels vs. Hannity/Coulter/Limbaugh.

Here's a fun game I invented -- it produces "viable" quotes a surprising amount of the time:

Take a Coulter/Hannity/Limbaugh book, interview, etc. Substitute "Jew" for "liberal" and "Germany" for "America" not to mention "Communist" for "Leftist" and at least 50% of the time it reads like a Goebbels Radio Show fro 1936. Try it.

Here's something to get you started:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/magazine/daily/6413907.htm
<snip>

"Everyone says Jews love Germany, too. No they don't," she writes, in the first paragraph of Treason.

"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, Jews side with the enemy. This is their essence. The Communist's obsession with the crimes of the West and their Rousseauian respect for Third World savages all flow from this subversive goal.

<snip>

Try it and then redirect you anger to the people who are REALLY utilizing Nazi-like strategies at all levels (kinder and gentler, minus the overt violence and racism, but only because it would be bad PR)

I understand you are a Lieberman guy, and that you suspect anti-semitism in the dislike for him. Hell, I'd be lying if I said I didn't think that there was some element of truth to what you say, although I am fond of replying that I and many other Jews dislike Lieberamn for reasons unrelated to his religion (except perhaps for the way he wields it like a Fundy Repug -- but that could be any religion, not Judiaism in particular), including his weakness, Bushevik Bootlicking and borrowing pages out of their rhetorical book to attack Liberals...oh and there was the way he helped Bush during the Bloodless Coup by being a vocie of caution and cowardice.

Dolstein, I lost 7 Great Uncles to that Commie Rat Stalin (my Grandmother escaped)...I've lost other, more distant family, during the Holocaust.

When I see or hear Lieberman, my mind unbidden turns towards the German Jews of 1933 who ultimately harmed our people by counseling cowardice and caution when the exact opposite was necessary, and who's eyes undoubtedly widened in surprise at that last moment when the doors slammed shut and the gas filled the room.

"But the Nazis said they would never do that and it was Liberal Lies!"

Then as now (though undoubtedly the Busheviks will take a different track to Brutal Totalitarianism because resembling Grandpa Bush's Former Business Partners is "bad PR")...

...Plus a change, plus a la meme chose
(the more things change, the more they stay the same)

[Walt Starr]

89. I believe dolstein has demonstrated the reason for this poll

quite adequately. Too often the accusations of anti-semitism arise when people opine about opposition to Lieberman.

I believe the poll has demonstrated quite well that is simply not the case.

[Forkboy]

130. "You cannot compare the dislike of Lieberman to Nazi Germany"

Sure he can :D

[dolstein]

133. I don't, but a lesser evil is still an evil

Is the cyberlynching of Joe Lieberman the equivalent of the methodical slaughter of 6 million Jews? Of course not.

But if the rise of Nazism tells us anything, it's that people of good conscience ought not remain silent in the face of scapegoating. It teaches us that blind hatred is wrong, regardless of whether the target of that hatred is sympathetic.

I for one believe that the smear tactics that have been deployed against Lieberman are offensive and contrary to what the Democratic Party stands for. Lieberman may not be a liberal icon like Ted Kennedy or Paul Wellstone, but he's a solid Democrat, and his devotion to public service and to causes ranging from civil rights, womean's rights and gay rights to the environment is admirable.

I fail to see how it can be acceptable for DU'ers to repeat the same lies ad nauseum about Joe Lieberman when it is not acceptable for Republicans to repeat the same lies ad nauseum about Bill Clinton and Al Gore. I'm all for a heatlhy debate, but you can't have a debate when people refuse to stick to the facts. And that's the situation we have on DU right now. It is impossible to have a rational debate about Lieberman -- one of the leading figures in the Democratic Party -- because most DU'ers no longer feel any obligation to speak truthfully. Perhaps things might have turned out differently if more people spoke up earlier. But instead, people who should have known better simply chose to remain silent, figuring that it just wasn't worth the effort.

[Forkboy]

135. When people DO give you a rational reason

You ignore it.

[IndianaGreen]

149. You forgot to mention Lieberman's devotion to ENRON

cyberlynching of Joe Lieberman

"Cyberlynching"? Isn't that a bit over the top, particularly when one takes into consideration the historical context of "lynchings"?

[dolstein]

153. You're hardly in a position to critize my posts for being "over the top"

And in any event, I think the term "cyberlynching" is entirely appropriate.

[IndianaGreen]

154. As was Lieberman's disgraceful behavior on the ENRON matter

He took money from ENRON. He promised an investigation of ENRON. He produced nothing!

[dolstein]

158. "Truth, meet Indiana Green" . . . "Indiana Green, meet the Truth"

I thought I'd introduce the two of you, since it appears as if you haven't met before.

Nothing on ENRON? Funny, but I wouldn't exactly consider holding investigative hearings and subpoenaeing ENRON documents nothing. I guess you must have been in hiberation when all that was going on. Here's a link to refresh your fault memory:

http://www.senate.gov/~gov_affairs/052202enrontimeline.htm

Now perhaps you don't think Congress did enough -- but why blame just Lieberman, as opposed to Congress as a whole? Is everything Congress fails to do Lieberman's fault?

Oh, and are you prepared to issue a sweeping indictment to every Democrat who took money from ENRON? By the way, that includes Bill Clinton and Al Gore.

[IndianaGreen]

159. You mean, all the DLC Democrats took money from ENRON?

Shocking, shocking!

[dolstein]

167. So tell me -- are these DLC Democrats?

Ron Wyden
Ernest Hollings
James Jeffords
Christpher Dodd
Jon Corzine
Barbara Mikulski
Ted Kennedy
Tom Harkin


All of these people received ENRON contributions, in addition to well known DLC Democrats like Joe Lieberman, Evan Bayh and Hillary Clinton. 29 Senate Democrats received ENRON contribtuions and obviously on some of them were not DLC Democrats. But of course you knew that right? Truth has never been your forte Indiana Green. Why muddy the waters by telling the truth when you can simply blame everything on DLC Democrats, eh?

Oh, and I should also point out that 71 House Democrats received ENRON contributions, including many who clearly aren't DLC Democrats.

http://www.stopdemocrats.com/enron/

I'm sure you'll love the web site, since you appear to hate Democrats almost as much as the guy who runs it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

150. Tell that to the 40,000 Iraqis Lieberman helped to kill

You're right. People of good conscience shouldn't sit quietly while scapegoating happens. Specifically, I'm not going to sit by while that motherfucker Joe Lieberman and his pal George W Bush advocate the murder of so many people. So put that in your goddamned right-wing pipe and smoke it.

By the way, Dolstein (and this applies to Carlos as well), it doesn't really matter what you think about Joe Lieberman or how the poor little guy has been wronged in the Democratic court of public opinion. The perception is there, right or wrong. He's a warmongering has-been, no matter how much you wish it wasn't so. You can whine and bitch about it all you want (I think you're exceptionally suited for this), but it doesn't matter. So carry the flag for Joe, do whatever you want. It makes no difference. Joe Lieberman is now and forevermore irrelevant.

[dolstein]

155. Notice how you leave out Kerry, Gephardt and Edwards?

How typical. All of them voted to give Bush the choice of waging war in Iraq with or without a UN mandate. But only Lieberman is responsible for, in your words, killing 40,000 Iraqis. Tell me, did he feed on the bones of Iraqi children?

Of course this is fairly representative of the scapegoating that goes on around here. Unhappy about the results of the 2000 election? Simple -- just blame that backstabber Joe Lieberman for keeping Gore out of the White House. Unhappy about the Clinton/Gore trade policy? Simple -- just blame that nefarious corporatist Joe Lieberman. Don't like Ashcroft? Simple -- blame Lieberman (unlike, say, Russ Feingold who, unlike Lieberman, actually voted to CONFIRM Ashcroft). Pretty soon people will be blaming Lieberman for global warming and male pattern baldness.

Keep talking. You prove my point so well.

[Ediacara]

156. funny, how this thread is about Lieberman

and not Kerry, Edwards or Gephardt, I think it's reasonable not to have talked about them. It would be like bringing up ocean sunfish.

But since you brought them up, I don't remember Kerry's smugly grinning face in any photos at the Rose Garden, nor Edwards.'

[IndianaGreen]

157. Dolstein is missing the threads where we are roasting Kerry

for saying that it was wrong for Dean to oppose the Iraq war. Check them out in GD and LBN.

Here is the Kerry quote in which he says it was wrong for Dean, and in turn, it was wrong for millions of Americans to demonstrate against the war:

As his campaign plane flew from Iowa to New Hampshire yesterday morning, Kerry told reporters, "Howard Dean's opposition to the war was wrong." Kerry argued that Saddam Hussein was a dangerous leader who needed to be confronted, just with more diplomacy than the Bush administration tried.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/04/kerry_changes_stance_takes_on_dean/

[IrateCitizen]

48. It was probably meant as a response to charges of anti-Semitism

Which were leveled repeatedly in an earlier thread in regards to people's criticisms of Lieberman. I'll let you guess as to who the culprit was. ;-)

[ButterflyBlood]

49. most of my posts, just not the ones that get attention

but in this case, it's mainly to point out why people dislike him, and that it has nothing to do with anti-semitism, which a few here have claimed.

[Walt Starr]

52. Yeah, but I bet those who made the claims made sure and clicked on

religion

[tom_paine]

92. People might accuse you of Anti-Semitism, but I wouldn't be one

Please read my response to Dolstein's "Germany Unified" comment.

[Flying_Pig]

55. I am sick to death of people trotting out the...

old canard and accusation of "anti-Semitism", whenever they are on the loosing end of an argument (take I/P issues, for instance), or in this case, having a loser of a candidate. Don't like how things are going?, pull out the ol' anti-Semite card, that'll get em'! Works every time. I call bullshit on this, and on anyone who employs these kinds of tactics. It is reverse racism, and those who employ it, are the lowest of the low, and end up creating real anti-Semitism through their reprehensible, chicken-shit behavior!

On edit: The reason I don't like Joe, is that he's a mealy mouthed, smarmy little prick, who sold his soul to the corporations the minute he took office. He was strategic in setting up the shell game, that allowed the "Enrons" and "Citi-Banks" of this nation, to rape the people, and our economy. Add in, his blind support for the thugs in Likud, the war in Iraq, and the Patriot/Victory Act, and I've got more than enough reasons to detest the bastard, all without having to resort to any godamned anti-Semitism! I am ashamed he's even a member of my Party!!

:mad:
Grrr!

[IndianaGreen]

62. Particularly when the accusation is made by the goyim

it really boggles the mind!

This is like having Pat Robertson accusing a pro-choice Catholic of being anti-Catholic!

[tom_paine]

99. LOL, IG!

:evilgrin:

[ButterflyBlood]

101. that was just done by Orrin Hatch and a bunch of other Republicans

on the Pryor nomination bullshit.

[Bonobo]

60. He is a sanctimonious, self-righteous ass, that's why.

n/t

[texastoast]

69. Instrumental in Offshore Corporate Structure . . .

That allowed Enron to happen. He's a DINO.

[John_H]

70. His disloyalty

He had the chance to stem the chimpy love fest , help his party, and stop corporate crime as chairman of the Gov. Oversight committee in the Senate. Instead, he was so fixated on his own political ambitions that he went out of his way to seem bipartisan to the guy who screwed him out of the Vice Presidency, just so he could avaoid attacks of partisanship in the election.

[AntiCoup2K4]

88. Because he's more PNAC than Bush

No further comment needed.

[sangh0]

90. His betrayal of the Democratic Party

by "standing with Bush*" while Daschle was trying to negotiate with Bush* on the resolution.

[Walt Starr]

91. WOW, for once we agree on something

It wasn't my number one reason for disliking Lieberman, but it sure is something I dislike very much and is only one of the reasons I consider him a Republican in Democratic clothing.

BTW, I listened to Kerry's speech from yesterday and now would probably vote for the guy if he wins the nomination, albeit not with a lot of enthusiasm.

Heh, maybe Lieberman could come up with something to change my mind about him. I won't hold my breath in the meantime...

[sangh0]

168. No, we don't agree on something

We disagree on everything. Even when we agree, we disagree.

[DemPopulist]

93. I voted "his corporatist policies"

Seriously, I thought that was THE reason why everyone disliked him. :eyes:

[Walt Starr]

94. I got into politics because religious fundamentalists terrified me

His stances on the seperation of church and state piss me off greatly and is my #1 reason to dislike him, but really, most of the reasons listed add into the equation. In fact, I can only think of one that does not, his religion.

[Aidoneus]

95. I instinctively disliked him before,

for some parts or variation of all the above (except I don't care that he's Jewish, oddly enough half his peers are more fanatically pro-Israel than he is despite the rap he gets), but what annoys me about him now is the Vichy Dem/"left=bad" kick he's going off on, like he could do Rush & Sean & Ann & etc a bigger fucking favour, eh? I don't know if pandering to his corporate sponsors and their elitist hate of left-anything is worth sabotaging the guy who actually gets the candidacy when he doesn't.

[TheDonkey]

97. His attack on the left !!

Why is that not an option. I don't hate Centrists, but I hate centrists who think they are godly compared to liberals/progressives.

[tom_paine]

124. Hey, don't lump all centrists into one sub-group!

There's actually two subgroups, probably more.

Some moderate are not a mass of 100% moderate, timid positions, but rather 30% liberal 40% centrist and 30% conservative (of the Old School, not the Orwellian-Totalitarian Bushevik kind.

There are those of us moderates who stand firmly for Centrism as the guiding vision of the Founding Fathers when they set up our now-dreadfully weakened system of Checks and Balances. If that means pushing Left, as it does now, this type of moderate pushes Left.

And if the Left were ever to get as close to unchecked power as the Busheviks now are, the moderate pushes to the other side. It is only when one side gets wildly powerful that really bad things start to happen.

It is not a godly position of the Liberman kind, just another way of looking at things. It is the position that says that everyone is flawed in some way.


Don't confuse the rest of us with the Liberman types

[baldguy]

98. One reason.

[NewJerseyDem]

100. I don't get why people hate him

I don't really understand the hatred of Lieberman but like Gephardt and other Dems.

Lieberman has a lifetime rating of a 20 from the ACU. In 2002 he voted with the ACU on 4 issues. They were Trade Promotion Authority(Edwards, Kerry and Graham also sided with ACU), caps on government spending(Kerry and Graham also sided with ACU), Iraq war(Kerry and Edwards also sided with ACU), and union bargaining in Homeland Securtiy department(Kerry, Graham and Edwards also sided with ACU).

So Kerry, Graham and Edwards look to be just as conservative.

Lieberman clearly isn't the strongest friend of unions but that hardly makes him some evil right winger. He is also more hawkish than others but so is Gephardt.

Gephardt has a lifetime rating of 12 from the ACU. In 2002 he voted with the ACU on 2 issues. They were War in Iraq and partial birth aborion ban.

I don't really grasp why nobody seems to mention Gephardt's flip flopping on abortion and his support of partial birt aborton.

[dolstein]

104. Your problem is that you are thinking rationally

and I think it would be hard for any rational person to comprehend the sheer intensity of hatred towards Lieberman that gets expressed on DU.

[LalahLand]

102. I just don't like his aura...

He comes across as a self righteous prude, he is WAY to moderate (almost to the point of being Republican), he cost Gore the election.

[Ms. Clio]

105. He supported TIPS

Don't have the links, just saved the page in HTML, but this was a headline in the New Haven Register on August 2, 2002.

"Lieberman backing Spies 'R' Us program

WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman, D-Conn., has endorsed a controversial new government program that critics say encourages Americans to spy on one another.
Lieberman said he wants to make sure people's civil rights are not violated, but he does not favor a complete ban of the program, which some senators are demanding.

<snip>

U.S. Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., asked Lieberman to prohibit the federal government from beginning the TIPS program. But a spokesman for Leahy said it was clear once committee debate on the bill began that the prohibition would not be included in the bill.

Leahy, in a letter to Lieberman and U.S. Sen. Fred Thompson, R-Tenn., likened TIPS to the American Protective League, a Justice Department program created during World War I.

That program enrolled 250,000 citizens in more than 600 cities to report suspicious activities and spy on workers and unions in thousands of plants with defense contracts. Members carried badges and ID cards and were accused of acts of intimidation and beatings.

"No other one cause contributed so much to the oppression of innocent men as the systematic and indiscriminate agitation against what was claimed to be an all-pervasive system of German espionage," said Leahy in his letter."

[leftofthedial]

106. I'm not a Lieberman fan

Never was.

I'm a wacky, left-wing Kucinich supporter, pretty much the opposite of Joe.

But if he is the Democratic nominee, I will vote for Joe :Lieberman in 2004.

[LalahLand]

107. Yes, I'll vote for him too if he is the only candidate...

I think we can all agree on that one.

[Walt Starr]

110. Right now, Lieberman is the only candidate I definitely would not

vote for under any circumstances.

If he's the nominee, it would be painfully obvious to me that I am no longer a Democrat.

[ButterflyBlood]

108. only 5 say his religion

that's low enough to account for freeper lurkers and people making the allegation.

looks like there's no truth to it.

[tinnypriv]

109. You expect racist loons to vote truthfully??

n/t

[tom_paine]

125. No, but I don't think the difference is more than 10-15%

And that is a fringe minority of the whole in my book.

So I wouldn't worry about that. Raed the posts. all above you. If many of these people are racist loons, they certainly are convincing liars, eh?

By the way, I love your Chomsky quote! By God, that's a beaut!

:toast:

[jiacinto]

127. I don't

And there is more antisemtism here than people want to admit.

[Forkboy]

131. There's a lot of racism here to.

[Ediacara]

139. then name names carlos

cite posts, and write letters to the admins.

[ButterflyBlood]

140. hit alert on it

and let the admins decide. so far they haven't seem to done much.

[Forkboy]

141. Well obviously Butterfly

thats because the mods are anti-semetic as well ;-)

<sarcasm mode off>

[ButterflyBlood]

144. everyone on DU is a huge anti-semite

that's why everyone hates Wellstone, Boxer and Feingold so much as well. IG obviously being one of the worst anti-semites, as evidenced by this thread. She's got to be the first Jewish anti-semite I've ever met. THen again I suppose it's possible since I'm a self-loathing WASP. After all I hate Bush. ;-)

[tinnypriv]

147. See those 1000+ posts?

99% of them are in FA-I/P. I've seen 5 anti-semetic posts.

There is no spoon. Sorry.

Speaking personally, I'm agnostic. Why would I (or any agnostic/atheist) give a damn about whatever religious beliefs people have on their own dime?

Islam, Judaism, Christianity etc: I don't give a fuck.

What I (and I suspect most of DU) do give a fuck about is jackoffs blowing up children on buses, or jackoffs running a hideous, destructive colonial occupation which wrecks childrens lives.

And that certainly ain't motivated by anti-semitism.

It is motivated by pro-justice.

EOM.

[Flying_Pig]

178. Beautifully put Tinny.....

:hi:

[vision]

112. He's a kiss ass

The main word that comes to mind with Lieberman is

syc·o·phant n.
A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Sycophant

[Shanty Oilish]

113. He's a hawk nt

[retyred]

120. Need I say more?

Retyred IN FLA.
“Good Night Paul, Wherever You Are”

[redeye]

151. His opposition to separation of church and state

His support of Ashcroft's policies is fairly minor given the fact that practically everyone in October 2001 supported them.

[fabius]

152. I don't care if he's Jewish or Buddhist...

...I just prefer somebody more progressive. Somebody that can kick Bush's butt back to Crawford!

[laconicsax]

160. His religion isn't the problem

It's how he uses his religion. I checked out his campaign website a few weeks ago, and prominently displayed was some thing about how he's Jewish.

The main reason I dislike him is his lockstep following of the BFEE.

Close behind is the way he seems to feel his religion plays in the election...Every time I see something of his referencing that he's Jewish it's with this arrogant, "I'm Jewish and so are you...I am automatically entitled to your vote." (I'm Jewish by the way in case there was confusion on that.)

[LeftistGorilla]

164. This guy thought...

he could stop hiphop music....
dumb ass...

[ButterflyBlood]

165. ha ha seriously?

I just knew he whined about warning labels a bit.

[CBHagman]

166. I don't dislike him. He's just not progressive enough.

I voted for him and Al in 2000 and still have the polling stub. I'd vote for the both of them again tomorrow. Still, when it comes to 2004, I would prefer another Democratic candidate to Lieberman. He's too conservative on a number of issues.

[makeanoise]

169. Because he is a wimp

He will not attack Bush at all...

Bush is vulnerable, I could debate him and embarass the hell out of him, which woulndn't be hard to do.

The debates will suck because Bush will probably demand questions way ahead of time. Yet my children can't have the test answers ahead of time, give me a break.

[ButterflyBlood]

170. he's not exactly trashing Bush now

just trashing Democrats because they're trashing Bush.

Holy Joe would make a great running mate for him!

[dolstein]

172. You've obviously missed every single speech

he's given in the past three years, not to mention every single press release he's issued, as well as his many television appearances in which he's been been consistently critical of Bush's economic policies, his energy policies, his conservative social agenda and -- yes -- his handling of homeland security and Iraq. Like Edwards, Lieberman continues to support the decision to go to war but has criticized how Bush has handled the rebuilding of Iraq.

I'm beginning to think you couldn't even pick Lieberman out in a line-up.

[Ediacara]

173. I think Dolstein

that everyone's eyes are still burning from the Rose Garden photo-op where he was grinning ear to ear with the war-monger-in-cheif. Or perhaps our ears are burning from gems such as, "the first amendment guarentees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion," marking himself no differently than a pandering fundy like Bush or Bennett.

Lieberman's attitude and well publicized pandering of the right and war mongers negates his UNPUBLICIZED press releases and mild criticisms of Bush. Other Democrats have partially supported Bush's policies, but none have done so with such large smiles on their faces, nor such glowing words, nor with such frequency as Lieberman.

[ButterflyBlood]

171. after my post last night

still only 5 say his religion, out of 276 votes.

[BiggJawn]

175. looks like being Jewish is a non-starter...

Me, I don't give a rat's ass if he wants to worship Baal.

But since he seems to "worship" The Shrub, I can't hang wit dat.

[TheYellowDog]

176. Butterfly

You seem to have a Lieberman obsession. I have seen so many threads that you've written bashing Lieberman. Why don't you work to bash the opposition instead of fellow Democrats? :shrug:

[ButterflyBlood]

181. I'm not the only one who trashes him

however the Lieberman defenders on this board have been playing the anti-Semitism card for awhile, so that's why I made this poll.

[TheYellowDog]

177. I like Lieberman

He's not my first choice, but I would enthustiastically support him based on his 90%+ AFL-CIO rating and other good interest group ratings.

[TheYellowDog]

179. Lieberman is also not a RW Republican

by any stretch of the imagination. If i had to characaterize him, I would say that he is a center-left Democrat, but slightly closer to the center. He's no more conservative than Bill Clinton, and innocents also died in Kosovo, just like in Iraq.