Clark is a DEMOCRAT!!!!!!

[wndycty]

He just announced it on CNN, so hopefully this will shut everyone up about whether or not he is a Democrat.

[Walt Starr]

1. Clark has been handling himself like Powell did in 1999

Maybe he's bucking for a cabinet post.

[IndianaGreen]

25. You are right, shades of Colin Powell

and more reluctant. Clark looked like a man dreading to jump into the North Atlantic without a wetsuit.

He is not running. He raised the "perhaps it is too late" issue.

A person on the verge of announcing a candidacy would not have been as hesitant and guarded as Clark was on the interview.

The words "moving towards closure" are another indication that he is moving to bury his Presidential aspirations in favor of supporting someone else for President.

[Gloria]

42. "Hesitant and guarded"....correct! When I described it as "looking

like he was taking cough medicine" on another thread, I was admonished that I "dressed down" a nice man! (I also said he "spat out" that he was a Democrat, which was also found to be offensive, although military people are always described as either "spitting out" or "barking" orders or whatever...)

I didn't think he was as relaxed as I have seen him other times. He just didn't look very comfortable. He said several times that it was a hard transition from the military to civilian perspective.

I was struck by the use of the word "closure" as well...and he mention a speech on Sept. 19 and that being a "benchmark" sort of time..

Perhaps he will announce that he is joining Dean as his military advisor???????? They HAVE been talking......

[uptohere]

86. I said that yesterday (acting Colin-like)

and got flak. I guess timing is everything.

[robsul82]

2. He's running...

...I just don't know what's taking him so damn long.

Later.

RJS

[wndycty]

6. Its called strategy. . .

. . .think about how much he has been talked about lately. The only other candidate that has gotten this much attention is Dean.

[tjdee]

3. I can't wait to get the transcript, he gave a good reason about

why he's a Democrat.

Just said he's proud to be a Democrat.

[VolcanoJen]

65. Why wait for the transcript? It's in post #63 below.

Ask and ye shall receive.

:-)

[tjdee]

93. Awesome, thanks for the heads up...

Had to go pick up something, went out for a while...

[Kahuna]

98. check out digitalclark.com tomorrow. They should have a video.

clip by then.

[Brian Sweat]

4. The sky is blue.

I'm not making fun of you. Just all of the people who claimed that he wasn't.

[ibegurpard]

9. No one claimed he wasn't

They just wanted to know WHY he wouldn't say it if he was planning on running for the Democratic nomination. I am heartened to hear this.

[Brian Sweat]

24. Not true.

I number of people on DU claimed that he was not.

[Kahuna]

99. "heartened??" Now I'm..

really :scared: That's very gracious of you. :D

[eleny]

5. Kewl!

[_NorCal_D_]

7. Yes!

:bounce:

[maveric]

8. Now how long will it take him to announce his candidacy?

:shrug:

[FlashHarry]

10. At this rate, some time in 2006. N/T

[tjdee]

11. His speech in Iowa?

That's what I think.
Sept. 19.

[Donna Zen]

18. Good question

And certainly one that I can't answer...so look for an opening that offers both extensive coverage and an element of some surprise. What that might be...don't know.

[bearfartinthewoods]

79. some element of surprise????

the only possible element of surprise would be if he said no go.

[shance]

52. Probably as long as it took him to utter the words "Democrat"

Shades of Colin Powell seems pretty appropriate.

Hes likable but he's apprehensive. Maybe there is a better suited position for him, like Dean's VP? Or maybe hes a military guy that needs to remain a military guy. Gosh knows theres enough he could improve there.

Even then, he needs to say the word Democrat with some conviction.***

[IndianaGreen]

12. Clark: "Moving towards closure"; it doesn't sound like he is running

A total lack of the "fire in the belly" that one needs to embark on a Presidential campaign.

Our Hamlet is not going to run! I listened closely to what Clark said, and to his body language. He is not running.

I expect Clark to endorse one of the candidates already running when he goes to Iowa on the 19th.

[wndycty]

16. Keep dreaming

You and I both no he has no damn reason to announce or declare a party if was not running. Keep dreaming

[Gloria]

47. No reason to announce he's Dem...UNLESS he's going to become Dean's

military advisor! Maybe he's going to announce something like that on Sept. 19...which would make it convenient for him to be in the same party. They have been talking, after all....!

[Kahuna]

102. Dean already has a military advisor.

can we get a Zorro-snap smily? :D

[Kahuna]

101. Right. If he wasn't going to run he would say so...

He did give a time frame of by Labor Day. If he hasn't said no, it's because he's getting his organization together.

[Renew Deal]

19. Get over it

And if you are going to steal someone's words at least site them.

Fire in the belly (Daily Kos, 9/3/03)

[bitchkitty]

27. I've heard that term

as far back as 20 years ago. No one has trademarked that phrase, to my knowledge.

[Kahuna]

103. To me, Fire in the belly infers egotism is involved..

I like that he's not running to soothe his ego.

[IndianaGreen]

28. "Fire in the belly" is a common expression

or are you now suggesting the Faux was correct in claiming "fair and balanced" as their own?

[Renew Deal]

35. Coincidence

It seems coincidental that you use a term AND stick it in quotes that was used in an article today, that's all. I know it is a common term, it is just a funny coincidence.

[IndianaGreen]

39. I think it is a coincidence that you pretend to know what you are

talking about.

[Renew Deal]

48. What?

[rucky]

91. It's Navajo

...at least the translation of a common Navajo phrase. I've heard it used alot in New Mexico, but it's cool to see it around.

[bitchkitty]

131. Huh?

Are you sure about that? I Googled trying to find a reference but couldn't. Lots of other garbage though.

I have always understood it to mean that someone with a "fire in the belly" is driven by passion or great love for something. I never heard of it being Navajo, that's pretty cool.

[tabasco]

21. Senior military officers are indoctrinated

To be very deliberate in the decisionmaking process. You can bet if and when he decides to run, it will be full bore, full steam ahead. I am suspicious of anyone who is anxious to become involved in politics. I feel Clark wants to help the country, but must balance what is best for his family as well. Fire in the belly might just be indigestion. I prefer a careful thinker.

[gulliver]

26. He's running.

He said he's been talking to people about money and admitted he had been interviewing staff. I agree with Woodruff this time, Clark is going to run. I think Clark would have a hard time backing down now, and I don't think he is the type to back down.

[IndianaGreen]

30. You can't back down when you haven't made a commitment!

Clark hasn't even given the engagement ring!

[Brian Sweat]

34. And the primaries are next week.

Oh, my mistake. They are not until next year.

[IndianaGreen]

44. I think you are reading what you wish Clark had said

into what he actually said. To this poster, Clark did not appear to be leaning to be a candidate, but instead appeared to be one that would offer himself as an advisor to one of the candidates currently running for the Presidency.

[Gloria]

55. Hoiw about announcing that he'll be Dean's military advisor since

they've been talking recently according to reports.....

[Clark Can WIN]

49. Oh Jeez Louiza!

Maybe if you click your heels together and say "He's not running" three times God will have pity and drop you into some alternate universe where you won't have to deal with logic or reality anymore.

The ONLY reason for him to declare party affiliation is so that he can RUN for POTUS. NOBODY declares affiliation just to endorse someone and NOBODY runs for VP. That's ludicrous.

[Dhalgren]

122. Why would anyone be reluctant to give his/her party affiliation?

Is he afraid of something? Seriously, why so coy with which party he belongs to? Why the hesitancy? "Hey, I'm a Democrat!" Nothing to be imbarrassed of, no concentration camps (at least yet). So what's the problem? I mean, people are just jumping up and down that he finally came out of the closet, and I mean, come on what-the-fuck!

[Kahuna]

100. Do you play poker? I don't think so....

Clark is no dummy. Didn't you hear Judy ask if it's true that he's putting a staff together? He basically gave her a non answer because he doesn't want the media to know. And who could blame him?

[tabasco]

13. Proud to be a democrat. Me too, General.

Now plan an offensive to destroy the neocon cabal.

[Renew Deal]

14. I am proud to be a democrat...

and to be in the same party as Wesley Clark!!!

:kick:

[kentuck]

15. He's giving Dean, Kerry, and Gephardt one more chance....

to offer him the VP slot and he will not run...

[Brian Sweat]

31. I don't think so.

Right now, there is no way Clark is offered a VP slot. He is too obscure. If he run for the nomination and makes a good fight of it, he could create the kind of name recognition that would make him a plus on the ticket.

[IndianaGreen]

33. And what will Clark bring to the ticket?

I think that having a newly elected Governor Bustamante on the VP slot would be more exciting to more people than having a former NATO commander.

[JVS]

37. Duh

It's the appeal to American militarism! That has been the point all along.

[Dookus]

43. And yet....

Clark opposed the war in Iraq. And our "civilian" leaders were all for it.

Military does NOT equal militaristic.

[JVS]

51. Good on him for opposing the war

But from what I've seen, his supporters lean heavily on his military background and accomplishments. It is a pretty good tactic. The American people are military junkies.

[Dookus]

40. umm...

say WHAAA?

First off, Bustamante is unknown outside of California. prior to the recall election, he wasn't even well known WITHIN California.

Second, if he does win, it will be with a very small percentage of the electorate.

Third, if he resigned to be VP, it would leave California with it's third Governor in as many years.

Fourth, California politics is a national laughingstock. A Californian on the ticket at this point would be suicide.

And I say all this as a Californian.

[JVS]

17. Is this noob going to run or not?

[Blue_Chill]

38. noob? lol!

Check this out

www.urbandictionary.com

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob

Noob:

1. A person online who is new and/or unfamiliar with the environment.
1a. A "newbie".

2. A person who acts like they know everything (see also, n00b).

[JVS]

46. yeah

He's a newbie as far as being a publicly known Democrat.

[Blue_Chill]

50. True

But I like him anyway. damn noob.

[JVS]

53. good enough

[graham67]

20. He's running....

I can't believe he'd do all this if he wasn't going to run.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[tjdee]

22. I believe what he's saying.

It's clear that *he* wants to run, but he's not going to get up there and show his ass. He wants to make sure the money's there, the support is there, etc.

He said it was good to have people who aren't telling you what you want to hear, and he's trying to figure out if a run is the best way for him to serve the country.

He really seems like a nice man who is trying to do the right thing.

[moondust]

23. Very tasteful.

Genuine, low-key.

[Dookus]

29. yup..

I thought thoughtfulness and deliberation were GOOD qualities.

I'm amused at how many people are so indignant that Clark is making decisions on his OWN schedule, rather than theirs.

[Brian Sweat]

36. But the primary is next tuesday.

</sarcasm>

[Clark Can WIN]

61. Amen Dookus

He has said for a long time now his only hard deadline was Sept. 19th. I am at least as impatient as ANYONE out there. It's killing me. But I would much prefer a thoughtful man with a plan than some fired up hell bent for leather pinball bouncing with the latest polls.

[Donna Zen]

32. And he smacks bush

so smoothly junior just thinks he got another wild pretzel in his beer.

the General said:

bad policy

bad economics

bad bad war

bad attitude

....oh_and did I say that there are many good repugs that I worked with when I worked in the White House? Hahahaha

[_NorCal_D_]

41. I say that

anyone here who wants Clark to run should go to www.draftclark.com and send him a letter! Let's crank it up!
:bounce:
B-):thumbsup:

[IndianaGreen]

54. I suggest you really crank it up!

Because this Hamlet approach is not working!

[Julien Sorel]

58. Why are you spending so much time attacking

something that is 'not working'? It seems rather foolish.

[IndianaGreen]

62. Because this is what we call "prick teasing" in my barrio

I honestly think that Clark is leaning towards not running, his "closure" statement (together with his body language when he said it) is a clear indication that he is not running.

[Julien Sorel]

64. You're question begging.

[Clark Can WIN]

66. You remain uninformed

Closure is the word he has used in a hundred interviews before this, his "closure" statement is nothing new.

And body language? Kinda vague there. Are you an expert or something?

I am sorry that another good candidate in the race is obviously so very frightning to you.

If, as you say he is not running then you are spending a great deal of energy for no purpose whatsoever. Seems silly.

[TheBigGuy]

73. He and his wife....

...according to the transcript posted below he is talking this over with his wife.

If you recall Colin Powell did the same when he was considering getting into electoral politics. And his wife said "no".

So I think IG is right about this...that his wife will say no.

He also intimated about it being "too late". I think that is another out he might use.

[Kahuna]

105. FYI, IG Clark has been using the word "closure" for months now...

I wouldn't read too much into it. "Closure" just means to finalize something, last time I heard.

[LuminousX]

45. All the Candidates

I want all the candidates to run commercials, not attacking each other, but saying why Bush has failed and why they would succeed.

Clark finally coming out of the closet regarding his affiliation means there is one more powerful figure able to point out Bush's foibles as President.

I eagerly await Sept.19. I'm not a big Clark fan, but damn, he is going to help make this election exciting.

[_NorCal_D_]

56. Yes,

this election will be exciting. I bet Bush is shaking in his loafers!
:)

[Q]

57. Whether he was a Democrat was never the point...

- Many Dems...myself included...wonder why he didn't utter these words until today. It's as if he was embarrassed say the words. In this age of 'new' Democrats and neoRepubilcans...one has to be suspicious of someone shy about their political affiliation.

[wndycty]

59. Its called strategy. . .

. . .there has been a lot of speculation about his being a Democrat. . .now that he has announced that he is, its news. There is a lot of press about whether or not he will run. . .by announcing at the last minute he keeps his name out there because everybody will be asking will he or won't he. By not being a declared candidate he is getting a lot more press than many of the declared candidates. Also remember what Andy Card said about releasing a new product AFTER Labor Day! Do you think it was a coincidence that he announced his party affiliation AFTER Labor Day/

[Clark Can WIN]

60. I'm a Democrat too, General

And like you I was an independent for a long time before I got here. Not because I did not agree with the Democratic party but because I did not want to feel my opinions were owned by any organization, I wanted to keep my open mind. Time and life showed me that the Democratic party IS the party of open minds.

We knew you were a Democrat, thanks for telling everybody else too.

President Wesley Clark ahhhhhhhhhh I like it.

[VolcanoJen]

63. TRANSCRIPT

I also posted this in the other GD thread re: Clark's Announcement, which can be found here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=269889

Hate to spam the boards, but this is good stuff that bears our listening.

-----

Thanks to Tivo... and by no means 100% accurate, although I can assure it's to the best of my abilities. I hope all that didn't see the broadcast can appreciate this important announcement, in General Clark's own words.

:-)


Judy Woodruff: Right now, we want to talk to someone who's been thinking about getting into this race, he's retired Army General, and retired NATO Commander, Wesley Clark, speaking to us from New York City. I want to ask you, first of all, you've been saying for months you are neither a Republican nor a Democrat. Are you now ready to declare that you belong to, and will swear your allegiance, to one party or another?

Wesley Clark: Well, Judy, this has been a really tough transition to make out of uniform and looking at American society... you know, I was in the Ford Administration, I know a lot of people who have really believed in the Republican Party. I was working around the White House, through the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Clinton Adminstration. But as I've travel around America, and looked at where the country is now, domestically, and looked at our policies abroad, I have to say, that, I'm aligned with the Democratic Party. I like the message the party has, I like what it stands for. To start, it's a party that stands for internationalism, it's a party that stands for ordinary men and women, it's a party that stands for fair play and equity and justice and common sense and reasonable dialogue. It's a party that's had a great position in our country, and I'm very attracted to it, and that's the party I belong to.

Woodruff: General, I think I can hear some Republicans out there saying well, this is really no surprise to us, because you've been critical of Bush Administration policy, and you've in effect, they think, aligned yourself already with the Democrats. They might be asking, what took you so long?

Clark: I think it's a very difficult transition for people who are in uniform and very serious about government and public service. You know, we've worn U.S. on our collars, we've served the commander-in-chief loyally, we don't speak out about public policy in uniform, we would never criticize the commander-in-chief, whoever he was. And yet as I've looked at where the country is, and where it's going, and I've looked at the policy that took us into Iraq, I always had my doubts about it, and I was always concerned about what would happen afterwards. Of course, so much of that has proved true. We tried to convey these concerns to people on the inside, but they didn't listen, they didn't want to take me aboard. I've looked at the tax cuts and what their impact is. I've looked at the job loss in America... there's just... to me, it's a very clear distinction between the two parties.

Woodruff: General, does this mean you are now closer to deciding yes, you will run for President?

Clark: Well, I'm closer to working my way through it. I'm understanding more and more about what partisan politics is, and how political parties work. I know that's easy looking at it from the outside, but when you're on the inside and people are coming to you and asking you to run, and asking you for leadership, and challenging your ideas and so forth, it's an entirely different matter. But, yes. My family and I are moving toward closure on that issue. For us, it's a question of what's the best way to contribute to the country?

Woodruff: Well, we hear, General, that you're also interviewing people about staffing a campaign.

Clark: Well, one of the issues that's come up, Judy, is, some people have said it's too late. So I have tried to do my homework on that issue, I'm asking, is it too late. I've talked to people about money as well, because I think that when you do something like this, it's a profound step, and you want to be sure that you're moving in a direction that makes sense. You know, it's a very easy thing, when you're in public life, for people who like you to come up and praise you and ask you to do things. But the real question is, what's the actual situation? And you have to listen to the people who don't always tell you what you want to hear.

Woodruff: But you've said that you will decide by September 19th whether you're going to go, and it sounds to me as if you're on the verge of saying yes.

Clark: Well, we are moving for closure, and I do have that speaking engagement in Iowa on September 19th, so that is one of those benchmarks. But this has been a long...

Woodruff: Closure meaning a yes?

Clark: Closure meaning closure. I have not made a decision on this. My wife and I are looking at all the facts and so forth. I'm very... I like the other people in the race, they're great people.. and by the way, there's a lot of great people in the Republican party that I feel very close to, and whom I admire tremendously. So, this is a very tough decision.

Woodruff: Do you feel like you've gotten a great burden off your chest by doing this?

Clark: I think that it helps clarify the situation, because I think that it's easier for people to relate to you if they can put a label on there. And, the label is, you know, I'd be proud, and I am proud, to be a Democrat.

Woodruff: All right. Spoken by retired General Wesley Clark, announcing once and for all, that he's a Democrat. General, thank you very much for talking with us, we appreciate it.

Clark: Thank you, Judy.

Transcribed by VolcanoJen, with emphasis by VolcanoJen, from on-air broadcast, CNN, 9/3/03

[TheBigGuy]

71. The Wesley Clark fan dance continues...

....well, it looks like he has dropped at least one veil...he IS a Democrat.

We get more of the fan dance this month....maybe the full monty on 19 Sept.

[VolcanoJen]

76. Fan Dance?

ON EDIT: Whoa! I screwed the pooch on this one... see my apology below. And, while I'm at it, I'm sorry for my knee jerking out of control, The Big Guy.

I've got more egg on my face than Arnold Schwarzenegger!!!

:-)

Original Post Below:

Hope you're willing to apply that standard and characterization to the Dean campaign, then.

I support ALL Democrats,
Jennifer :-)

[Brian Sweat]

84. You have the wrong meaning of fan.

The poster is not talking aobut fans of Clark, but about Clark doing an old fashion strip tease number. Clark is dancing while holding fans in front of his "naked" body and slowly revealing himself.

I don't necessarily agree with the analogy, but I understand it and it cannot be applied to Dean.

[VolcanoJen]

89. Whoops!!!! Thanks Brian... I was indeed being a little knee-jerky

:-)

I'm so used to defending any and all Dems in the candidate-bashing threads lately, that I jumped the gun a bit on this one.

My apologies... and thank you for clearing that up.

:-)

[Pastiche423]

72. From his mouth...

"...they didn't want to take me aboard."

Uh oh. They (whistle ass' administration) wouldn't let him play w/the big boys.

"...there's a lot of great people in the Republican party that I feel very close to..."

Why doesn't that statement comfort me, a life long Democrat?

[VolcanoJen]

74. What's so wrong about saying that?

I admire a few Republicans, too... John McCain, for example. And Jim Jeffords, but then again, he switched over...

I don't think that's a horrible, nor detrimental, thing to say. If anything, it's a political thing to say. And it's one that's been said by many, many Democrats who have won the Presidency, in fact.

Not a deal-breaker to me,
Jennifer :-)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

77. Some People Are So Blinded by Partisanship

That they seek to demonize the other side, even when some of them are decent human beings.

It's kind of sad, really. I have lots of Republican friends, and they are normal, good people. Perhaps not well-informed, perhaps misguided at times, but still fundamentally decent.

DTH

[VolcanoJen]

83. Exactly. If I eliminated Republicans from my circle of friends...

... I'd have virtually nobody to go pub-crawling with me on Friday nights.

As a part of the basic job description, The President must master the murky waters of bipartisanship. If our nominee were to say "ALL REPUBLICANS FUCKING SUCK" he'd get nothing done, let alone get elected.

I vote Democrat, but have many, many Repub friends. In order to remain friends, we've found it best to not discuss politics. What's the big deal???

- Jennifer

[DoveTurnedHawk]

85. There Is No Big Deal

What's the big deal???

It's only a big deal to the worst fringes of the left and the right, who prefer to wallow in their own ideological purity/tunnel-vision worldview instead of opening their minds.

DTH

[Dhalgren]

128. Well one aspect of a "big deal" is the lack of reciprosity.

The Republicans hate Democrats and will say so from any high point that they can get to. They do everything in their power to demonize anything Democratic. Now, I am not saying that the best policy is a "scorged earth" policy, but if you are going to a gun fight, you'd better be packing more than an army knife (Swiss - that is).

[TacticalPeek]

90. We need repub and indie votes to win POTUS and both Houses.

And we NEED to win POTUS and both Houses.

[Kahuna]

109. Amen! Repeat after me...

This is about defeating bush and restoring sanity to our country and the world. This is not a beauty contest. We are not in high school. These cliques are stupid, childish and counterproductive to the goal of defeating bush.

[Darranar]

111. But if we defeat Bush...

his replacement should be better than him - a lot better. He should have the courage to challenge the GOP and the corporate interests. He should have the ability to push back the mess that Bush has made in our country and the world. Simply not making any more messes will not suffice.

[Kahuna]

125. Okaaaaaay.............. I agree with that.

:D

[Kahuna]

107. Maybe he wants to be wa "true" uniter... Ya think?

:shrug:

[Pastiche423]

113. If by "he"

you mean Clark, no I do not think so.

He sure as hell is not uniting anyone on this board.

He is a disrupter.

[Kahuna]

123. "He" is the subject isn't he? Who else would I mean?

bro-ther. :eyes:

[Blue-Jay]

115. Thanks for the transcript, Jen!

There's quite a lot to consider (for me anyhow) in that short conversation. From my perspective, it looks like he's running. Things could get very interesting soon.

[davidinalameda]

67. so when is he going to announce if he's running or not

[VolcanoJen]

70. He seemed to elude to September 19th as "Magic Day"

I've waited a long time. I suppose I can wait longer, as long as Clark is whom I'm waiting for... September 19th, baby!!!

From the transcript:

Woodruff: But you've said that you will decide by September 19th whether you're going to go, and it sounds to me as if you're on the verge of saying yes.

Clark: Well, we are moving for closure, and I do have that speaking engagement in Iowa on September 19th, so that is one of those benchmarks.

[Kahuna]

110. He did seem to say that. Damn him!

:grr:

[CMT]

68. prediction: Clark will be on the ticket

either as the presidential or vice presidential candidate.

[poskonig]

69. WooHoo!

Those are the words I want to hear!

[Trek234]

75. Damn it's happening

This is the day the Bush victoy in 2004 started.

Thanks a lot Clark.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

78. Yeah Whatever

Clark is the most electable out of the entire field.

DTH

[Trek234]

81. Let's see if you say that

come November 04.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

82. OK Smart Guy

Who are YOU supporting? Inquiring minds, and all that.

DTH

[UrbScotty]

104. Yeah Trek, WHO?

I like Dean, but I'd still vote Clark over Bush anyday.

[Trek234]

114. Well have fun voting for Clark

Have even more fun watching the states fall like dominos to Bush afterwards.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

117. Can't Even Give a Straight Answer to a Simple Question

Sad.

I'm sure whatever candidate you're supporting has a worse chance of beating Bush than Clark. Let me know when you work up the courage to actually tell us who that candidate of yours is.

I guess it's just easier for you to attack other candidates, than support your own candidate.

DTH

[Brian Sweat]

87. Are you saying that Clark will get the nomination and then lose

or that his candidacy will undermine the other Democrat that does get the nomination.

[poskonig]

88. Though *he* is just flaming, that actually is a concern.

Right now the establishment vote is split three ways and the anti-establishment vote is unified. I'd hate to see the election thrown to Gephardt, though I would vote for him in the general.

[Trek234]

94. Both are very strong possible situations

Either way the end result will be favorable to Bush.

[TacticalPeek]

95. With the current pledged delegate count at zero for everybody,

is not "very strong possible" perhaps a little . . . strong?

[Trek234]

96. <sigh>

Come the primary time and/or general election, do you think any numbers will still be zero?

It's called a prediction.

[TacticalPeek]

97. Understood.

I have no idea how any caucus or primary will come out, nor even what the results would mean.

I know what I want and hope for, but the rest is a guess.

I'd be interested in seeing on-record predictions, now, of the order of finish for IA and NH, at least the top three or four. From folks here, pundits willing to co-locate money and mouth, pols, etc.

I am almost to seeing Clark finishing first in both. So far it looks like some indie and repub (or ex-IA-repub) participation is possible in both places.

[ignatiusr]

120. Hehe

Trek is a very odd, confused individual. But since he obviously has no effect on the campaign, I don't have a problem with him speaking his mind...it's nothing to worry too much about. I may have to put him on my ignore list, though.

[oasis]

80. Bowling for Sept. 19: How many of the "nine" will fall like tenpins?

:shrug:

[TacticalPeek]

92. Guess I'd better wash my truck in anticipation of a Clark bumper sticker.

One thing, I'll bet his logistics work out a lot better than poor Tommy Franks'.

We'll see.

[Darranar]

106. So is Lieberman...

that "D" next to their names means nothing. Trent Lott (:puke:) was once a Democrat too.

Our country, and the world, is in the middle of a giant struggle that has lasted for hundreds of years. This is a struggle not fought always with weapons, but with words and politics. This struggle is between the interests of the rich elite and that of the people, a struggle between unbrindled greed and justice for for all people, a struggle between violence and peaceful coexistence. The prime fighters in that struggle - those who fight this struggle for economic and social justice, in the US and throughout the world -are who we need to support. Martin Luther King was such a fighter. Ghandi was such a fighter. Robert Kennedy was such a fighter. Paul Wellstone was such a fighter.

Wesley Clark, my fellow DUers, is not such a fighter. The reasons for that have been explained multiple times by such people as my friend Tinoire, and so I will not get into them unless someone wishes me to.

Perhaps you define my statements above as "class warfare." That is not my intention. I am not saying that all among the rich elite are on the wrong side of this great struggle. There are many among them who have stood up and spoken out for the rights of the poor, the disabled, the sick, and the minorities. Franklin Roosevelt was one such.

If and when Wesley Clark enters the race, I will stop my criticisms of him. The only reason I shall do so is because I have promised in the past not to criticize any candidate for the Democratic nomination, a promise that I know have come to regret.

[Dhalgren]

130. Great post, Darranar.

Heartfelt and true. You speak for me.

[amazona]

108. he has always been a Democrat

I guess he is getting sick of the rumors. Would you like it if people ran around calling you GOP? In the Esquire interview a couple months back, he made quite a point of stating that the GOP had tried to enlist him after 9-11, and that he very nicely told them where they could shove it.

Here we have a real hero, with real success in capturing a dictator/war criminal (Milosevic) and bringing him to trial -- how could such a man be GOP? They screw up everything.

He also told Esquire that he wants Bush brought to accounting for the intelligence failure that allowed 9-11 -- and so do I.

[Pastiche423]

118. A hero?

A hero to WHO? And for what? Dropping cluster bombs and DU on innocent citizens?

He would not have had to "get sick of the rumors", if he had stated he was a Democrat from the fucking beginning!

[Terwilliger]

112. If a Democrat has to declare that he's a Democrat...cant be much of a Dem

dont you think?

I mean...would the Clark supporters still support him if he said he was a Republican?

WELL?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Nashyra]

116. Are you now saying he didn't have to declare

after all the yelling about him not saying it out loud. On Buchanan and Press he as much as said it should be easy to figure it out, but nooooooooooo that was not good enough for some and now "he can't be much of a Dem" because he had to declare. If you don't like him so what, there are 9 other Dem's to work for and may the best Dem win, who ever it is. It is best to make your candidate more viable by advancing their finer points not bringing down the other candidates and that includes Clark suppoorter's too. United we stand, Divided we fall.

[eleny]

119. Yay!

:kick: :kick:

[Terwilliger]

121. ok...why did peole have to ask the question?

because they dont know who Clark is or where he stands

[Kahuna]

124. Everybody didn't have to ask Ter..

Some of us know that if a person espouses the Democratic platform that person is very likely a Dem.

[eagler]

126. Custer was a Democrat too

and look how that turned out.

[Forkboy]

127. Forkboy is a DEMOCRAT!!!!

next...

[dansolo]

129. I don't think he'll run

I believe he is sincere, but I think that he is reluctant to enter the race. I think he is positioning himself as either a VP candidate or as the eventual candidate's Secretary of Defense.

[shatoga]

132. bumpers

a bit of reality must intrude on each liberal fantasy

we have to win to do anything.