A $2 million "donation", Bustamente? TWO MILLION?!?

[Paragon]

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-recall-campaign-finance,0,1097310.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

LOS ANGELES -- A wealthy American Indian tribe plans to donate $2 million for Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante's campaign for governor -- the latest example of a campaign finance loophole allowing big spending in the California recall race...

Meanwhile, Bustamante and his leading Republican opponent, Arnold Schwarzenegger, both have established committees that have no contribution limits because they are not meant to promote their candidacies, but rather to advocate for or against the recall of Democratic Gov. Gray Davis.

- on edit

[arcane1]

1. ummm...

some context..?


I miss the 5-sentence rule :-)

[Paragon]

2. Sorry

Assuming everyone else is watching the California debate - Bustamente just got hammered on this one. Here:

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-recall-campaign-finance,0,1097310.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

LOS ANGELES -- A wealthy American Indian tribe plans to donate $2 million for Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante's campaign for governor -- the latest example of a campaign finance loophole allowing big spending in the California recall race...

Meanwhile, Bustamante and his leading Republican opponent, Arnold Schwarzenegger, both have established committees that have no contribution limits because they are not meant to promote their candidacies, but rather to advocate for or against the recall of Democratic Gov. Gray Davis.

[sandnsea]

7. money talks

I don't know, it's sad, what are you going to do, what do you expect Bustamante to do, up against Arnold. I don't know what to say. The tribes are paying 2 million to Bustamante instead of 2 million in taxes. Sucks.

Let this be the issue instead of your stolen vote. Vote for Arianna and let a Republican win. Every candidate is always going to have something unpleasant. If this is worse than Issa spending $2 million to overthrow the election in the first place?

It's the Real World Politics.

[Paragon]

8. This isn't Florida

And Ralph Nader wasn't responsible for Bush "winning" that state. A vote for Arianna is certainly not a vote for a Republican.

[ButterflyBlood]

9. sorry but it's boiled down to a two party race now

a vote for Arianna is a vote for Arnold and a vote for McClintock is a vote for Bustamante.

[Paragon]

11. What crap

How about making a point without resorting to jingoistic statements?

[redeye]

35. Great

So I can vote for McClintock without fear that Arnold will win, right? :eyes:

[ButterflyBlood]

62. no, the point is just that

neither Arianna or McClintock can win, but only take away votes, Arianna from Bustamante and McClintock from Arnold.

also I know that a vote for x can never be a vote for y, it's really just equivalent to half a vote mathetmatically, but it's a common saying.

[ShaneGR]

15. No offense, BUT BULLSH*T

less than 600 votes cost Gore the election in Florida. How many people voted for Nader in Florida?

[Paragon]

22. That's just simple enough for you to understand it

Your conceit is this - everyone who voted for Nader would've voted for Gore if he hadn't run.

"No offense, but BULLSHIT." Add that to Katherine Harris eliminating people from the polls, the Supreme Court, etc. - and you have a stolen election.

Place the blame where it lies.

[GemMom]

20. This is casino money

Excerpt from the article: The tribe, which operates a lucrative casino in San Diego County, said it was also putting $1.5 million into Bustamante's 2002 re-election campaign account. Because that committee was created before California's new campaign finance law took effect, it is not subject to the contribution caps imposed on newer campaign accounts, allowing Bustamante to avoid the limits.

[Paragon]

23. So what's the lesson here?

That we're so petrified by what happened in Florida that we're willing to do anything to win? (That is, if you buy the "It's Nader's fault" argument.)

That we'll accept the backstabbing notion of "No on the recall, Yes on Bustamente"?

That it's OK to accept a $2 million bribe if we can find a way?

What's happened to us? When, oh when, are we going to stop letting the Republicans control the debate and finally take the higher ground?

[sandnsea]

25. Let Republicans control elections then

If you buy into the notion that this is a 'recall by the people' then you've already lost the high ground. The Republicans bought this recall and by deluding yourself into thinking it's an election, you're being stabbed in the back. And you're handing them the knife. That's all the debate there needs to be. No on recall, Yes on Bustamante. Stand by the legal election of the voters of California.

[Paragon]

27. Hard to disagree with you

The recall IS a mixed bag - I don't approve how it happened, and Davis should be serving out his term. But now that it IS here and we have the opportunity to put a better candidate in office, why not take it?

[sandnsea]

36. Because it's unethical

You either respect the vote and stand by it... or we will crumble to a point where no election means anything. Davis was elected legally. That's all there is to it. Everything you see before you now is a fraud. Smoke and mirrors. A side show. PT Barnum. Old-fashioned tent revivals. Brought to you by the Republican Party. Watch, laugh, enjoy... but don't believe. It's not real.

[Paragon]

38. Great

I'll see you at the Repeal The Recall protest, we'll hold hands and sing "cum-ba-ya".

Until then, let's deal with the very real possibility that Davis is GONE. What's his approval rate in California now, low 20's?

[sandnsea]

45. No on Recall, Yes on Bustamante

The Democrats won the election and that vote should be respected.

[shance]

64. No on Recall PERIOD

No DLC Bustamante, NOBODY BUT DAVIS.

[ButterflyBlood]

68. Bustamante is far more liberal than Davis

whatever the case your stance makes no sense since it's not too difficult to vote for Bustamante after voting against the recall and doing so wouldn't help the recall one iota.

[BrendaStarr]

51. Not just the Republicans, but the Rovians created this recall

Rove's Sacramento man Jim Brulte put the cabosh on cooperating with the Democrats in trying to solve the budget crisis in June.

Notice how fast that Darrel Issa ( the guy that squandered a fortune on hiring illegal out of state campaigners to gather signatures) stepped aside when the Bush people told him to.

It is well known that Ah-nuld is Rove's favorite.

I'd rather have Bustamante accept money from the Indians, whom the people of CA have twice voted to allow ever increasing leeway in the casinos, than have Schwarzengger's as Pete Wilson's and Karl Rove's puppet in Sacramento.

The Indians said they are giving to those who they feel treat them like a nation, which they are.

God help them. The Rovians will be all over their hides from now on. The even started the media take down last year with a major propaganda piece published in Time magazine.

I wondered why there were so many attacks on the tribes at the time (hate radio and the usual print right wingers took up the howl). A visit to opensecrets.org told me why.

There is major fascism going on in our nation and we would be well to be truly informed on subjects so we don't just go around believing every thing the media, which is in many ways controlled by the right wing, says.

Remember what they did to Al Gore???????!!!!!

Details on the Rove- recall link on my blog
http://calif.news4u.alturl.com

( We have been working on this for a while and have more than just the one excerpted article you might see on the front page. Move on through the archives for more proof.)

Also see this about the CA electricity crisis of 2000-2001.
http://ca.news4u.alturl.com

Index to more: http//news4u.alturl.com

[sandnsea]

55. Casinos

What's going on with the Tribes? I know there's a state tax dispute, but that's not unique to California. Is there other stuff too?

[Paragon]

3. Listen, people

I'm really glad we've nailed down Britney Spears' political views, but I swear to God - I'm going to kick this thread 2 MILLION TIMES until we address this.

Let's get serious.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

4. Umm...Good for Bustamante?

Does that address the issue?

DTH

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. OK let's address the issue

2 million dollars is an obscene amount of money for a campaign contribution.

Unfortunately we didn't create that game. Big business did when they ran up the costs of elections. They further removed any possibility for the opposition party to be heard when they tore apart the fairness doctrine by successfully challenging it.

Campaigns cost money. Indian Casinos have money.

There isn't a WHOLE lot they buy in terms of power that they couldn't already get if they did what they did last time they got locked out in Sacramento which was to take it to the voters who overwhelmingly approved their casinos.

But if you want to discuss it...you may as well piss in the wind.

The Supreme Court has ruled money equals speech unless you are talking to a hooker.

California needs clean election laws. Without them, we HAVE TO COMPETE....and we can't do it without money.

Is it a faustian bargain...yes.

What's the alternative? LOSE!

[Paragon]

47. I guess I'm just a hopeless romantic

I thought, given the opportunity, that people would vote for a better candidate, rather than a piece of shit that outspends them.

I must be naive to think that people are smarter than to be hypnotized by a 30-second TV ad. After all, look at all the people who bought the "Flobee".

But hey, "Democrat right or wrong", right? Florida scared the living shit out of us, so we've got to play by twisted Republican rules until we can't distinguish ourselves from them in the mirror anymore.

I'm just asking the fucker to have some ETHICS. The guy who jumped ship on the Democratic party and asked us to somehow make "No on recall, Yes on ME" make sense. Guess I should've known better.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. Frankly, it's why I'd rather keep Davis but this election is a red herring

If it were in a normal general election, it would turn my head. This is not a normal general election. This is an emergency. The usual Dem contributors are tapped out...they just had an election in November and a mid term....I am pragmatic where survival is considered.

I'd like to think we could all be romantic but I only got a six month break from the last campaign before I had to get rolling again.

[w4rma]

61. Work to fix the system. Think long term.

There is a whole bunch of money in politics right now from folks who spend that money to make more money to replace it.

Most of those campaign contributions end up going to big media in the end. It's a big problem. Fight to get the system changed while voting for the best canddiate who might win. Campaign for your favorite candidate up until near the end. Then, vote for the best guy of the two leading the polls at the end.

IMHO, that is the best strategy.

[AP]

5. Of the top 6 candidates, he's the only one who couldn't

write a check to his campaign for $2mil.

Is it any coincidence that a bunch of millionaires are running against him?

And the only reason Indian tribes are giving a Democrat money is probably because Starwoods and other huge entertainment companies have bought off the Repubilcans.

[blm]

18. Good point.

And a true one.

[KamaAina]

24. Isn't Camejo among the top six?

Could he write himself a check for 2 mill? Somehow I doubt it.

You're right about Ahh-nuld, Arianna, Ueberroth, and others. More and more, "self-financed" (filthy rich) candidates are preferred by both parties (and you thought it was Ahh-nuld's nuanced and well-articulated position on the budget </sarcasm>). It looks to me a lot like public office is for sale, much as it was in the waning days of the Roman Empire... :scared:

[Paragon]

30. Bustamente is poor?

Are we buying into some kind of stereotype here? He's the lieutenant governor of California, for Christ's sake - I hear that's a little better than minimum wage. Let's for argument sake say that he IS poor...well, he sure ain't anymore, is he?

And if being rich (by being a popular progressive author, not at all from a divorce) makes you evil, then we'd better put Ben & Jerry and Ted Turner and all those "Hollywood Halfwits" (freeper's name, not mine) away for good.

[sangha]

44. Boy, is that rich!!

You complain about stereotypes while arguing that

1) Bustamente *must* be rich.....He's a politician!, and
2) the rich aren't necesarily evil, but if they give $2mil, it's a bribe!

God forgive if someone besides the rich gets to play the game.

[Paragon]

48. Sangha

Come back when you learn to read.

[dsc]

69. She claims not to have made money

by being an author which is why she isn't paying taxes. And lets say the Lt Gov makes 200k a year. Assuming he spends half of it on living that leaves maybe 1 million in savings. That would by like a 1 second ad out there.

[KamaAina]

71. Being rich doesn't make you evil. Not being rich shouldn't disqualify you

in effect, from running for public office. If it does, we've narrowed the pool of potential public officials to those who don't live the way the rest of us do: think of Bush 41 and the supermarket scanner.

For the record, Cruz makes $131,250 a year. Affluent? Yes. Rich? Hardly.

http://www.acssonline.org/representation/legislative/20030303-salaries-of-California-elected-leaders.asp

5316 Lieutenant Governor $10,937.50 $131,250

Will our children grow up believing that "anyone can grow up to President (or Governor) as long as they have a net worth of at least $10 million"? Let's hope not.

[ButterflyBlood]

6. a lot of money for him. good.

he's going to need it.

[Paragon]

10. Christ!

:argh:

[AP]

19. Between Enron and Indian Tribes, I'll lean towards Indian Tribes

and if you vote for someone to the left of Bustamante, it'll be Enron running California

[LightTheMatch]

31. What do they want?

What is an *Indian Tribe* going to want in return for a 1.5 million dollar donation?

[Paragon]

33. *Indian Tribes* run *casinos*

No money in that, is there?

[Terwilliger]

37. They don't seem to see the problem

don't get frustrated...they're Democrats...anything that helps them, they cheer

[Paragon]

39. Thank you

They ARE scared - bought Republican fear tactics hook, line, and sinker.

The definition of courage? Feel the fear and do it anyway. The solution is not, and never will be, to act like Republicans.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. What are you going to throw at the problem ? Sarcasm..that will fix it.

The Indians DON'T want to be held to our labor code for one thing. Anything else they want, they can take to the voters as they did with the ballot proposition that gave them the right to operate and expand.

The POINT is....WE NEED CLEAN ELECTION LAWS IN CALIFORNIA

UNTIL WE HAVE THEM..the only way to compete is to MAKE MONEY TO CAMPAIGN.

TELEVISION COSTS BUCKS.....THAT"S REALITY FOLKS!!!!!!

SORRY FOR THE EXCESSIVE CAPS BUT WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT GET???

Finally, the Indians provide over 50,000 DECENT paying jobs in the state and pay payroll taxes and make other improvements in the areas where they have casinos.

[Terwilliger]

50. ok ok ok

is it ethical to take such a contribution though he can only accept it because of a technicality?

Now who sounds like a Republican?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

53. It is ony unethical if there is a quid pro quo

It remains to be seen. I am sure the Indians will want something. For sure, anything they get whether vetted through the proper channels or not will be subject to scrutiny because of this...that's why I'd rather keep Davis.

[Terwilliger]

56. I was all hot on NO/Bustamante

now I'm not so sure

I would trust Native American casinos, except I visited Foxwoods in Connecticut, and I've heard that big money and the mob are still in the heart of the "Indian" gaming industry. Frankly, I can't be sure that all these places haven't been co-opted.

With all the largesse that Native Americans now enjoy, why is Pine Ridge still so unequivocally poor and destitute?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

59. Perhaps because their casinos are in South Dakota?

Hell Donald Trump is involved in one in Palm Springs,,,good reason NOT to go to it for me :D

There have been good and bad to come out of the casinos, and I don't doubt any of that. But the choice is pretty simple....Davis, Bustamante or a Republican in the pockets of the energy companies and another destructive attack on labor rights in the state.

It's not a great choice but it's the choice.

[ButterflyBlood]

63. I'm not a Democrat n/t

[Yupster]

12. Some other billionaire just a week or so ago

pledged some ungodly amount of money ($ 10 million? I don't remember) to beating Bush's reelection.

I guess the whole campaign finance thing was just talk. I thought the maximums were now set at $ 2,000. That's what they keep saying Bush is getting at these fundraisers he does. I guess there's some loophole already that lets you donate millions. Kind of disheartening. It doesn't seem like anything ever gets accomplished. It takes 10 years to get a law passed, and witin 6 months, people are driving trucks through the loopholes.

[oasis]

34. International philanthropist George Soros was the anti Chimp donor.

So the Indians gave money to Cruz.Perhaps he should stick his neck out like Russ Feingold, accept no money, and barely squeak by for a win. Or lose.

[librechik]

13. ha ha

nothing I like better than to see a hardworking Dem like Bustamente catch hold of a GOP-authored loophole and use it to strangle them.

Sure they're powerful and arrogant, but they can't play chess.

[Starpass]

16. libre----I love that-----"but they can't play chess"!!

That line was a great. Have to share wisdom from the great one---hubby (the politically ignorant one who somehow can cut right through things that take us hours here at DU). Few weeks ago as the CA recall was the hot news he was lying in bed reading while I was beside him listening to 'politics'. He paused, looked over his glasses for a minute at the tv. Then he said "do all those people have to pay to be on the ballot"---they were showing the parade of lunatics lining up to be on the ballot. I said yep, it's like $3,000 or $3,500. He went back to reading. Few minutes later I hear this very quite remark: "if they get enough of them to run they could pay off the goddamn debt"..............from little minds, great thoughts!!!!!!

[GemMom]

42. Chuckle

Great story - I love the way your husband thinks!

[Tikki]

14. And when we win....

...the 40 million dollar California State Lottery TONIGHT....we are ALSO going to donate 2 million dollars to "NO on Recall". You can hold us... to it.
Meanwhile, we have donated what we can.


The Tikkis

[Doomsayer13]

17. I see no evidence of wrong doing

tell me why I should be outraged

[Paragon]

21. Read the article

There are donation limits that every candidate must adhere to - unless you use a loophole to take as much money as you want by disguising it under the referendum on Davis.

[Doomsayer13]

28. Okay

I read the article, and while I think it's wrong for Cruz to use this loophole to his advantage in principle, I could see why he'd want to do it when pitted against enemies with unlimited funds. Still, it's not enough to make me vote for another recall candidate becuase it doesn't strike me as that damning of an issue.

[ljm2002]

29. If it's within the rules,

and it appears to be, then I'm all for it. Any Democratic candidate is going against Arnold, who has a big money machine behind him. Fight fire with fire in this case. They'll have some top notch media plays -- you need that too. Augment it with more populist methods -- you could put leaflets on the Internet free for people to download and print out -- encourage people to make copies and distribute them. Let the word spread in a distributed and grassroots fashion, not just in the Broadcast-TV paradigm. Let's sneak up behind them and kick 'em in the you-know-what. This is a serious suggestion -- let's all get creative here, and hope and work for the best possible outcome, which would be for the recall to fail decisively, and in addition to that, for Bustamante to beat the rest of the field, including Arnold, hands down.

An outcome devoutly to be wished for.

And if the recall succeeds and Bustamante becomes governor, that is not so bad either. So I'm not totally bummed about this, and think we can send a message. One can but hope...

[mitchtv]

54. Life is tough , isn't it

this dem is happy they gave it to him.I hope they expand the casinos to the Nev border keep that gambling money in California. wait til you guys see the new MGM casino in Palm Springs. Soon no need to leave your bucks in Vegas. I hope he wins, and it is time for ARIANNA TO DROP OUT.

[Terwilliger]

57. mitch

you don't have the right to ever question Repuke fundraising again...you know that, right?

[mitchtv]

70. what you say is

double standards are for Pukes only? I bemoan their fundraising, but they are generally legal about it, so generally I have accepted that they will always have more money. We must win on ideas and grass roots efforts ;and overcome green efforts to tear the party down in vain hopes of gaining that crucial 5%. They would do so much better if they attacked the pukes with a vehemence that they reserve for Dems. I think it would behoove them. Supporting the recall , knowing that they can never win ,only proves my point that they are a wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP.

[John_H]

26. Sweeet!!!! Two million bucks to fight evil with!!!!

I love it when smart people donate money for the betterment of their fellow humans--AIDS research, feeding the hungry, Make-A-Wish and Whoooping Rethuglicans!!!!!

[Paragon]

32. Money is no longer the root of all evil.

Yay capitalism! Trickle-down works! :eyes:

[John_H]

46. What does a campaign donation have to do with Reaganomics?

Although I do say "yay to (regulated) capitalism." You do too, don't you? I mean you're liberal too, right?

[Paragon]

49. Read the headline of this thread again, please

I'm not against campaign donations - they're a necessary part of the process. My issue is with everyone here chucking their conscience for Win At Any Cost.

Your headline could've just as easily been used by Bush - just switch it to "$2 million to fight 'evildoers'". The fact that you can revel in such questionable ethics is scary.

[John_H]

60. He's flying around raising 200 million to fight "evildoers" like us

That's why I revel in 2 million slot machine dollars to fight him.

As an inveterate softy, it's refreshing to frighten someone, but I tend to think about the current campaign finance system sort of the way some people think about "nucular" weapons--they are both big, creepy evils with the potential to ruin everything. But, ya know, let them disarm first.

It might make both of us feel better if my teeth did a little more gnashing than they do, but they're currently preocupied with taking a huge bite out of overstuffed Republican ass.

[shance]

65. You dont seem to realize how close to the Republican party Bustamante

appears to be.

DLC and chairman for Joe Liebermans campaign here in California?

He makes Davis look like Liberal.

The fact that he took this 2 million contribution should even be called into question as far as ANY Democratic loyalty is concerned.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. Come on! That's a load of crap....I CHALLENGE YOU to find ONE

thing in his voting record that makes him anything LIKE a repub. JUST ONE!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

67. Come on! That's a load of crap....I CHALLENGE YOU to find ONE

thing in his voting record that makes him anything LIKE a repub. JUST ONE!

[Cha]

40. $2 Million Smackers! I hope Davis doesn't get recalled but

If that happens..Bustamonte is the next best scenario!

[IndianaGreen]

58. Bustamante has been on the side of the Indian tribes and their casinos

for years. It is not surprising that the tribes would want to see their friend and patron in the Governor's office.

Unless one of you have moral objections to gambling (Las Vegas okay, Indian casinos bad), or object to any campaign contributions from any special interest (NARAL is a special interest), you should see nothing wrong with this.