In 2000, when did you first realize that they were going to steal it?

[booksenkatz]

I was thinking back to 2000, wondering how much of it is going to happen again in 2004, wondering about the new 'n improved tactics they'll be using to try to steal it again, etc. As I look back, it occurs to me that the first time it dawned on me that the bastards were going to steal it was when Cheney picked himself to be VP. Since he was legally a Texan clearly living in Dallas, I figured that he'd be removed from the ticket when the law was upheld. I was so sure of it, that I didn't even worry about it at the time! But when the law was ignored and no one in authority seemed interested in pursuing the issue, that's when my antennae went up... they were going to steal the damned thing. A clear law was being blatantly pushed aside... why?

There may have been something that happened earlier, but I honestly can't remember what. The Cheney thing is the first event I can remember as far as criminal activity goes in the 2000 race. I know most DU'ers have better memories than I do, I'd love to hear what first tipped you off that they were going to take the election come hell or high water.

[Systematic Chaos]

1. I thought something was fishy from the start.

When Florida changed hands according to media reports I began to think something just wasn't right. As the whole recount battle raged on it became obvious. Also, the whole thing about denying those black voters their rights raised BIG red flags.

[booksenkatz]

4. Two creepy things about the denial of vote

A) No one seemed to really give much of a damn about it apart from DUers and Greg Palast, and B) nothing was ever really done about it! The hearing was mostly ignored. And have those individuals even gotten their right to vote back yet, for God's sake?

This is not your father's USA.

[NontoxicAvenger]

13. Nope

<<<And have those individuals even gotten their right to vote back yet, for God's sake?>>>

jebbie and cruella made sure they didn't regain their voting rights until 2004. They KNEW there was no way jebbie could win Florida in '02 if these guys were back on the roles, thereby reducing ass whistle the destructo chimp's chances to roughly the same as a snowball in hell.

[IMayBeWrongBut]

2. Umm what law was violated?

What law did Cheney break I haven't heard this one yet?

[booksenkatz]

6. VP and prez nominees

can't be from the same state. Cheney was legally living in, and voting in, Dallas.

[IMayBeWrongBut]

7. Wow!, I didn't know that!

That is odd, that it was never brought up...

[dbt]

15. Oh, it lived for about 30 seconds in the media

But it was quickly dropped. That was the moment I began to think the fix was in, as far as TV was concerned.

:argh:
dbt

[TAH6988]

25. Was he a legal resident of

Texas or another state?

[booksenkatz]

27. This is where the debate comes in

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20001201/pl/election_texas_dc_2.html

This Yahoo! article no longer exists, so here's the Cliff Notes version:

A republican judge rejected the first lawsuit in early Dec. 2000 in which 3 Texans had challenged Cheney's change of "inhabitance" from Texas to Wyoming to do an end run around the 12th Amendment. The judge said that the Texans had not suffered any harm, so... no harm, no foul. The phony paper trail of Wyoming residency that Cheney had hurriedly created (kinda like that Harris quick count) was upheld as sufficient proof of his Wyoming residency, even though he had been living and voting in Dallas for 8 years.

But Cheney "may have" committed perjury in his deposition in which he swore that his Dallas home "is currently under contract for sale." A real estate agent testified 2 days prior that the home was NOT under contract of sale. He was in SUCH a major hurry to "prove" his Wyoming residency and sell off everything in Dallas, LOL! He and Miz Lynne were running around like mad changing voter registrations, drivers' licenses, sweating over tax forms, ditching I heart Texas T-shirts and buying up I heart Wyoming shirts, etc.

The second lawsuit was much bigger, a class-action suit, here's a great link to read about it:

http://indy.fortlewis.edu/Older%20Stuff/12-01-00/Lawsuit_Cheney.htm

Would love it if someone out there could supply better links and better info, because this particular issue goads the living hell outta me. I followed the issue closely at the time, but did not save any of the best links.

[ewagner]

43. He hustled up to Montana

and registered there...

it got about 3 seconds of CNN coverage

[Q]

3. Bush's* brother and campaign chairman for Florida?

- Talk about a conflict of interest. Does anyone here think the 'righteous right' would have allowed Gore's brother and campaign chair to determine the outcome of a race and presidential election? Hell, no...they would have insisted that they stand down.

- The GOP and their allies fixed the race so it would be CLOSE in Florida...where they had the operatives and ability to manipulate the vote.

- The second most obvious indication of a fixed race was the Supreme Court's 'one time only' decision which most Constitutional scholars considered illegal.

[bitchkitty]

5. When chimpie refused to concede -

after VNS had called it for Gore.

[Dookus]

8. I suspected something...

when Mary Matalin strenuously objected to the initial call that Florida was going for Gore. She was on CNN (I think) shaking her head and saying "that's wrong... that's gonna flip". She KNEW something was up.

[flpeach]

9. I'm Still Angry! . . . .

At the events leading to the Shrub becoming POTUS. Why in the world would the Supreme Court not let the Florida Supreme Court handle it? They could have counted all those votes by Sunday, on time, yet the Supreme Court fricking stepped in and made them stop. And then they didn't even SIGN the order. That was very, very upsetting!

The Florida Supreme Court believed that "the people" had every right to have the votes counted!! Is this not a democracy (or a republic for that matter)!!

A Supreme Court very partial to state's rights, and they threw out Florida's right to handle the situation.

Disgusting!!!!

[XNASA]

35. Me too. The Matalin comment made me very suspicious.

She had that look, like she knew that the fix was in.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

10. I thought something was up...

At about 10:15 PM when Harris announced that * was ahead by about 1800 ballots, yet right behind her on a monitor Gore was ahead by 202.

It was also right about then that Harris announced that an additional 40,000 * votes had been found.
Where that margin of "victory" went is still a mystery to me.

[BevHarris]

31. I think that 50,000 vote margin was designed to make Gore concede

Because it was vapor. They called it a "glitch" just like they do all the voting machine miscounts when they are caught.

We have journalist Ed Bradley to thank, and also the AP news service, because Gore was headed over to concede and the AP news and Ed Bradley (on public radio) kept saying "it's a mistake!" -- And indeed, as Gore waited, the votes began evaporating at a rate of over 10,000 an hour.

According to a CBS memo on the "snafu,", those votes never existed.

Bev

[IkeWarnedUs]

11. On election night

I kept flipping around channels (network, no cable) so I don't know exactly where I saw it, but Georgie and Pickles were at dinner with Poppy and Barbara when they got the news that Florida was going to Gore. They left the restaurant early and went back to the governor's mansion. As they left the restaurant reporters were all over them. I wish I could remember exactly what he said (I really wish I was taping), but Georgie said something like, "We're working on it" when asked about the Florida upset. I told my husband at the time that it was like they knew the jury was bought and couldn't believe the verdict. Not just disbelief, but cockyness that the "mistake" would be corrected.

[eyesroll]

18. That was a gigantic WTF moment for me...

If he'd just said, "we haven't gotten independent verification of Florida yet, so I'll withhold comment until then," it wouldn't have seemed nearly so fishy.

[eyesroll]

19. That was a gigantic WTF moment for me...

If he'd just said, "we haven't gotten independent verification of Florida yet, so I'll withhold comment until then," it wouldn't have seemed nearly so fishy.

[Must_B_Free]

12. As soon as the news backpeddaled on Gore's victory

it was obvious that something was up.

[VOX]

14. Was worried then * got the nomination...

I mean, you've got two brothers from a powerful family set up as governors of two states with large electoral numbers. How far-thinking and set up is that?

When the names -- the old, nightmarish names -- Cheney, Powell, Daddy Bush, on and on, began to fall in line, there was no doubt as to the intention of this pack of wolves. They don't give a damn about the law, and they don't give a damn what anyone thinks.

The corporate media bought off on * as a fun-loving, "moral" guy,and he was packaged that way, and sold as a Washington outsider (with *Cheney* as a running mate, the guy's an outsider????).

Prior to the election, an online news site had an interactive electoral map -- I kept playing with the thing nightly, putting the states where I thought things would fall, and grousing repeatedly to my wife that "Florida will be the key to this whole thing."

I'll stop there, 'cause it still makes me sick.

[booksenkatz]

16. Florida

I was following the polls in every state closely, had a spreadsheet w/where I thought things would fall based on the polls. The Florida polls I'd seen showed that Gore was pretty strong there, and I actually was NOT worried about Florida! In fact, the polls were pretty accurate for most of the states. Gore won all the states he HAD to win i.e. Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc. When they called Florida for Gore, it didn't surprise me at all, it's what the polls had indicated in the days leading up to the election. I was so naive, I thought that Gov. Jeb wouldn't make a difference one way or the other, because election night is the people's turn to speak, right? How could Jeb create votes where there were none, right? We'll show those Bushes what democracy is!

What a fool I was.

[dbt]

17. I first realized it was being stolen when it was TOO LATE

(Which is what I get for being asleep!) It was on the day that the (formerly) Supreme Court decided that a recount could not be allowed to proceed because it would do "irreparable harm" to bu$h.

What a truckload of horse shit from a Court that had been all "states' rights" for years!

Yet you can still hear the reich-wing railing against judicial activism...

:freak:
dbt

[booksenkatz]

20. The gap had narrowed tremendously

When the statewide handcount was stopped by the Soopreme Kort, the gap between Gore and the Simian had narrowed to something like 137... does anyone know the exact number? It was 100-something, and some counties that were expected to yield more votes for Gore hadn't finished counting at that time. It was clear that the official statewide handcount was going to show the true results, DESPITE throwing tens of thousands of voters off the rolls, DESPITE the butterfly ballot, DESPITE the Klan tactics used in the minority precincts, we were STILL going to see the truth. That had to be stopped, right?! I keep thinking about Sandra Day-O'Connor's shocked exclamation of "Oh no!" when told that Florida had been called for Gore that night.

After that entire travesty known as Election 2000 was allowed to stand, this cabal will stop at NOTHING in 2004. I bet that even they can't believe they actually got away with it, snickering and giggling as they line their pockets with treasury funds. For 2004, they may have perfected their technique w/electronic voting. I put nothing past them.

[Booberdawg]

21. I knew it when Delay's thugs stormed that place in Dade County.

I think it was Dade county - where they changed their minds and decided they were not going to recount. That's when I was pretty sure.

BTW, a little off topic, but does anyone remember that Republican fucker in one of the other counties recounting that had thick glasses and a big magnifying glass that studied each ballot so close he got snot on it? Arrghh! Talk about SPIN! I thought I was gong to explode!

[LeftHander]

22. Tim Russert said Florida was going to be key - Jeb is gov.

When he said that and the fact that Jeb was gov. I knew that something was up.

Clearly Jeb was installed in Florida to ensure that the state went to his brother. Being a bUsh he almost screwed it up. It took Baker "the cleaner" to fix the mess for W.

[joshdawg]

26. You hit the nail on the head!!

On the nose! Bu**sh**'s brother was gov of Florida. How convenient!! Bu**sh** was in a win-win situation. Talk about dirty politics!!

[pansypoo53219]

23. when the guy who anbnounced for bushit on fux

was revealed to be a relative.

[Racenut20]

24. It was waaaaaaaaaay back

When Ashcroft went to the far right money brokers and they told him they had a candidate that could win.

[zeemike]

28. It was 3 or 4 months before the election

I am not sure just when but can remember having a conversation with a woman that said that Gore could not louse because women and minorities would turn out in large numbers. And actually she was right because gore did get the votes, but I told here that I felt the Repugs would win it “by hook or by crook”

It was just a feeling I had and I have never been able to pin down an exact moment or thing that causes my feelings.
And I have the same feeling now about 2004. But this feeling also comes with the knowledge of how it will be done. The BBV without a paper trail is the perfect way to steal any election especially if you have a co-operative media.

But what I don’t know is if it will work. If the Democratic leadership is not participating in the theft by not doing anything, and actually take action to stop it then things could be different.

[LizW]

29. When the networks took Florida back from Gore

I knew it there was something very, very wrong going on.

I was afraid of the BFEE before. I knew there could and would be all kinds of dirty tricks going on, but I didn't think in my wildest dreams they were powerful enough to steal an election so blatantly.

However, I quickly realized I was wrong, and when they sent Baker to Florida, I knew it was all over.

I followed the news avidly through the fight, but the day the selection happened, I turned off the tv, cancelled my local paper, and withdrew from all things political and governmental for almost a year. I never heard the selectee's voice on tv or radio, and never read a single word about him. I pretended he didn't exist.

But on September 11, my best friend called and said, "I know you don't watch CNN, but you've got to turn it on right now. There's something terrible happening."

I was stunned to learn what Bush* had done to this country and the world in a few short months. I'm still stunned.

[DemBones DemBones]

30. It was the media's behavior that seemed so oddly disconnected

to me. Why were they giving Dubya a pass on everything? Portraying him as personable and popular, not reporting his record, not jumping all over the revelation of his DUI that came just before election day, acting as if it was somehow embarrassing that someone would have been declasse enough to actually report that the GOP nominee for president had been arrested for DUI. (Have we ever had any other nominee with an arrest record? Why wasn't this big news?)

For that matter, why wasn't more said about Dubya on Letterman, wiping his glasses on the jacket of one of Letterman's staff members as she was standing by him, never knowing he was using her clothing as if it belonged to him? That was ODD!

And the script continued. . . "How long will the American people put up with this indecision in the presidential election?" "Are we in a Constitutional crisis?"

Then SCOTUS ruled and the media told us our system had worked and wasn't it fortunate that it could all take place without tanks in the streets? Now we could all come together under our new president, who, we were assured, would reign from the center.

And I talked to myself then, watching the liars on television, and saying softly, "It's a coup d'etat, a bloodless coup, and no one dares to say it."

[King_Crimson]

32. Think about it...

The seeds for the whole thing were planted during the witchhunt of Clinton. IMHO...this was brought on by Clinton's refusal to go along with the PNAC'ers and attack Iraq in 1997. They have been hell bent on stealing the White House ever since then. Almost every bastard that signed that modern day version of Mein Kampf now holds, or has held, a position within this administration. We must not allow it to happen again!

[booksenkatz]

33. I'm of the mindset that

this coup very likely started when JFK was killed in 1963. Gee, it was in Texas, imagine that, ain't it crazy how Texas allllllllways somehow manages to play such a big part in American history at coup time???

But in posting this thread, I was trying to pinpoint the crimes that occurred specifically towards stealing this particular election, and wondering which crimes made DUers raise their heads and sniff the danger. Your post reminds me that it's really impossible to do, since this singular theft was really just a small part of a larger project. It also reminds me that they're not done with us yet, they have even bigger plans ahead, and there is no way in HELL that they're going to give up what they worked so hard to steal: total and complete power.

[King_Crimson]

39. Wanna read something REAL SCARY?...

this is an on-line book called "The Nazi Hydra in Fascist America". I think if you are patient enough to read most of it, you will be able to come to a logical conclusion as to how long these Fascist scumbags have been trying to extoll complete control of our government!

http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/noon.html

[Lars39]

40. Link's not working. eom

[King_Crimson]

41. Got it Fixed...

eom

[Butterflies]

34. I didn't know until the SCOTUS decision

I was too naive to believe that the election by the people could be stolen that way. Even after the sneaky repub tricks, I thought it would come out fairly in the end. I was stunned by what happened (the SCOTUS), and I ignored politics for a long time after that to keep my sanity.

[reachout]

38. "Florida changes hands"

Much like others here, I started having suspicisons when the networks "put Florida back in play." As an aside, I have to say that I'm disturbed with the naked hubris of these broadcasters who act like they are the determiners of who won a state, rather than its voters.

When it became apparent that Florida was turning into a battleground, I thought it was going to be handed to Bush (I didn't forsee it going to SCOTUS). The Republicans were already holding too many cards in that state (Jeb, Harris, etc.), and it appeared that both their spin and legal machines had already been warming up and were ready for launch as soon as it happened. The Democrats were caught playing catch-up.

I think one valuable lesson of the whole fiasco was to dispel the "one vote can make all the difference" myth. Any time the difference in a large race drops into the thousands (or below), it will become a legal battle rather than an actual question of who received more votes.


"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Joseph Stalin

[Brian Sweat]

36. Two things tipped me off

Right after they called Florida for Gore, they interviewed Mary Matalin and then the entire Bush clan. The looks on their faces and their insistance that there was no way Gore could win Florida was a clear tip off.

[Starpass]

37. When Jeb got up from the family dinner table, cried and went to make

a phone call. It was said he was so distraught they he hadn't delivered Florida to his brother..........more like tears of rage as he called the Bush mafia boys on the ground in Florida and screamed "what the fuck is going on---make it right and make it right, right now or you will be swimming with da' fishes and I don't mean playing with the whale at Sea World".............yep, that's when I knew.

[ewagner]

44. If I recall correctly

that was also when Dubya made some comment like.."they've got their numbers, and we've got ours..."

That smugness sent a cold chill down my spine and I knew the fix was in....my wife, a non-political accountant, looked at me and said, "it's over, it was rigged all along."

[Marymarg]

42. When the media called Florida for Gore and...

Smirk and Jeb went off to make sure that votes were changed. It was very inappropriate behavior at that point. They were definitely up to no good.

[Lastgasp]

45. I was there in front of the Supreme Court . . .

. . . on December 12, fighting until the bitter end. When I left the scene I knew the election had been stolen. Woe is me.

[Skwmom]

46. When Bush was first told on election night that Gore won Florida

and he said something along the lines of "no that can't be." It was like he knew something we didn't (that the Repubs had stolen so many votes in Florida - county by county - that there was no way Gore could win). That footage should be the end shot on any documentary of the 2000 stolen election.

[ewagner]

47. I think we're talking about the same clip

I wonder if there's an archived link to that clip?

Any "old time" DUers know?

[pansypoo53219]

48. i did not watch any TV that night except the daily show

and NPR, but red flags went off repetedly and when i finally saw the Big Bitch Harris, then i knew shit had been done. and NOW she defiles the floor of congress. WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA?!?

[burr]

51. Same here...

didn't even have a modem let alone DSL. I didn't allow myself to believe the election was stolen until Gore finally decided that the courts would not even listen to his case. Then I went insane.

[bobthedrummer]

49. When the emphasis on mailed votes began

eom

[bushh8ter]

50. When I went to bed hearing Al Gore was president and woke up

into this national nightmare!