Buying a computer for Xmas? Know this: Steve Jobs vs. Michael Dell

[President Jesus]

If you want to support Blues and punish Reds, this is about as clear-cut as it gets:

Steve Jobs

vs.

Michael Dell

any other Red vs. Blues we should mention?

[ET Awful]

1. Well since I would never buy a Dell or a Macintosh of any kind,

your point is kind of moot.

[President Jesus]

2. wow, you're so cool

I wish I could be as cool as you.

Sorry for taking up your time this morning and forcing you to respond to something you find moot. You'll never get those 5 seconds back, and for that, I apologize.

[liberalmuse]

11. snicker...

I love the smell of a well deserved flame in the morning. :D

[ET Awful]

31. Well to tell me why I shouldn't by something I would never buy

is meaningless.

TO tell me why I should buy something I would never buy is also meaningless.

Perhaps instead of trying to tell people that they should immediately switch to a computer that in no way suits their needs based on the political affiliation of people who have no bearing on their decision, you should simply present the political information you wish to convey.

Sorry, but the vast majority of people aren't interested in being sold a sub-par computer simply because Jobs has an intelligent position politically.

[President Jesus]

38. see title of thread: ASKS if you are buying a computer...

...not telling you to.

and ps: to claim a Mac running OSX is sub-par is simply uninformed. It's not 1996 anymore.

[ET Awful]

39. To pretend that a Mac processor can come anywhere near

the processing speed and power of an Athlon 64 is pure gibberish from the uninformed.

Were I buying a computer for Christmas, I would do the same thing I do for every other computer I buy, purchase the components separately and build the machine myself.

[Deja Q]

41. Bingo - homebuilding is the ONLY way to go.

Much less costly, allows greater flexibility in hardware and software options, there are no downsides to this.

[retread]

49. Wrong! Gibberish is pretending the processing speed of

a processor is a true measurement of the throughput of a computer system!

[ET Awful]

50. LOL . . . you don't know much about Athlon processors do you?

I'm not talking speed in megahertz, I'm talking outright speed in finishing the task at hand. If you knew anything about the processor I'm referring to, you'd know that. I'm going to have to assume that you don't.

[retread]

53. Thats twice you have "assumed" ignorance. You are basing this

performance of the Opteron on what? AMD's marketing campaign? How it runs all the 64bit window's software available today?

[ET Awful]

62. Yet more proof of your lack of Athlon knowledge, I"m not discussing

an Opteron, which is a processor intended for servers. I'm referrin to an Athlon 64.

Actually I'm basing it on real world performance comparisons. You obviously haven't done any real world comparisons, but instead just repeat whatever Macworld has told you. 64 bit software is not necessary for an Athlon 64 to outperform other platforms.

As an example, a 2.6 ghz Athlon 64 can outperform an Intel P4 running at over 4 ghz, running the same applications, either of which can outperform any Macintosh.

I suggest you do some testing with say video encoding as an example between platforms you will find at least a 10-20 percent faster encode rate with an Athlon 64 than you will with any Macintosh.

The mere fact that you don't know the difference between an Athlon 64 and an Opteron shows that you aren't approaching your argument from any real knowledge, but from a fanboy standpoint.

[retread]

71. You are correct that I haven't done any video encoding. I have, however,

built my last 2 computers and used AMD processors. My latest is getting rather long in the tooth and I'm looking to a new system when I graduate this summer. To that end I have researched other systems. I find the powermac g5 coupled with OS x to be compelling. I like the Darwin core of the operating system along with the tightly coupled hardware integration. As one who is fairly familiar with Linux, one of my computers is running Debian Woody, I like the fact that all of the standard UNIX utilities and scripting languages are included in Mac OS X: emacs, vim and pico, shells i.e. bash (the default shell), tcsh (csh) and zsh and scripting languages such as Perl, PHP, tcl, Ruby and Python.

I would NEVER claim one processor is vastly superior to another. You can have the fastest hardware on the planet, but if your operating system(including drivers) and software does not take advantage it is fairly useless. For example if you have an Athlon 64 but are running software with a lot of cache misses and so access the harddrive constantly and I have a Duron but have stripped the drives into a RAID scheme, in spite of the blazing speed of your processor my Duron could be "faster".

I have never had an Apple, but the combination of a dual 64 bit processor and that operating system built on a free BSD core interests me. If that makes me a "fanboy" so be it!

[ET Awful]

72. As I said, you can cite all your statistics from Macworld as much as you

like, it doesn't change the fact that in real world performance with real world tasks, an Athlon 64 (or even a P4 for that matter) will outperform any Macintosh.

[retread]

74. link ? n/t

[ET Awful]

75. Perform the tests yourself, I have.

Compare the two. Feel free, put them side by side, do the tests yourself.

[ikojo]

63. The DU equivalent of a religious war

Mac versus PC...

Quantity does not equal quality....especially where WINDOWS is concerned.

[Occulus]

45. Well, you're right about that...

...but if all you do is surf web pages, email, and the occasional AIM, IRC, or other chat (even Java!), linux is seriously a viable option. You don't have to buy an expensive Mac, you avoid Window$ entirely, you're somewhat more secure from viruses and malicious ActiveX controls, and (most importantly) as linux can and does run quite happily on older hardware and the os itself is free, you can actually avoid quite a bit of cost.

If you're a gamer, of course, Window$ is the only real choice.

That said, linux has a learning curve a lot like a vertical line for new users. The good news is, it's documented to a fare-thee-well.

[freeplessinseattle]

6. um, you're not the only reader here

[elehhhhna]

25. .

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. Where the fuck was Jobs in this election cycle?

I'll just build my own computer thank you very much.

[AP]

32. Dealing with cancer.

[KG]

4. i'm sure macs are gods gift to the computing world

but they don't run the games i like or the program i make a living with.

[Sideways]

9. Goddammit Woody Guthrie Where Are You Now?

Hi KG you big lovable wrong kinda lefty.

[KG]

10. 'So come back Woody Guthrie

'So come back Woody Guthrie
Come back to us now
Tear your eyes from paradise
And rise again somehow
If you run into Jesus
Maybe he can help you out
Come back Woody Guthrie to us now.... '

Christmas In Washington
(Steve Earle)

being the wrong kinda left is better than being the wrong kinda right.

:hi: come home soon.

[Sideways]

18. Listening To Mermaid Ave With A Hangover

Shit this has been one hell of a year. What did the Queenie say a few years back...."Annus horriblious" or some such yammering...that describes 2004 for me....I'm not sure if I'm ever coming home....If it wasn't for Peyton Rose....Oh BTW my son Benjamin enlisted in the Marines....He's in boot week 4 as we speak....Fuck Fuck Fuck...

[peacebird]

21. i'm truly sorry to hear that sideways...

here's hoping your son makes it through this in one piece, mentally and physically.
:hug:

[Village Idiot]

22. Never heard of Virtual PC or VMWare?

a mac will run any game a PC will...and it's easier to set up, understand, crash less, and it's TONS MORE FUN!!!

[Deja Q]

44. LOL. I HAVE used VirtualPC and VMware - they are SLOW. And it's always

best to have software that's been natively compiled for your OS. Emulation is not desireable.

But most Mac users have this simplistic way of thinking that's quite refreshing. (and Macs do have their problems with security and viruses too. The problem is, Macs aren't popular enough to warrant any mass-scale threats. Linux and Windows ARE.)

[billyoc]

5. Thanks, I didn't know that about Jobs

Dell I knew about, he was also on the board of directors of Pfizer, or Pharmacia, whatever they're calling that drug cartel this week.

[proudbluestater]

7. Hmmm, Reds vs Blues!

COSTCO- Blue all the way vs. Wal-Mart-Red as they come.

Check out this chart from Opensecrets.org
Retail Sales:
Top Contributors to Federal Candidates and Parties

Rank
Organization
Amount Contributed
Dems %
Repubs %

1
Wal-Mart Stores
$2,005,516
0.20
0.80

2
Home Depot
$716,270
0.06
0.94

3
National Assn of Convenience Stores
$582,972
0.18
0.82

4
Target Corp
$314,588
0.26
0.73

5
Sears, Roebuck & Co
$268,544
0.24
0.76

6
Limited Brands
$263,370
0.30
0.70

7
Gap Inc
$244,085
0.61
0.38

8
Amway/Alticor Inc
$238,788
0
100

9
Costco Wholesale
$207,803
0.98
0.02

10
National Retail Federation
$154,450
0.09
0.91

11
National Assn of Chain Drug Stores
$153,350
0.25
0.75

12
Walgreen Co
$139,961
0.46
0.52

13
Staples Inc
$132,949
0.39
0.61

14
Saks Inc
$119,700
0.05
0.95

15
Circuit City Stores
$117,300
0.04
0.96

16
JC Penney Co
$105,065
0.18
0.81

17
Barnes & Noble
$103,850
0.98
0.02

18
May Department Stores
$103,750
0.1
0.89

19
Rite Aid Corp
$96,975
0.48
0.52

20
Windquest Group
$84,680
0
100

[liberalmuse]

17. Notice...

that the companies who treat their employees well are also large Dem donors and vice-versa--and this seems to be in proportion to their donations, too.

My sis just bought a Costco pass. I think I've guilted her out of shopping at Wal-Mart. Barnes & Noble? Excellent news! And of course Mac. I've never owned any other computer, though I understand they're not for everyone.

I'm fighting with my pocket book for now. Blue all the way! Thanks for yet another fine list of merchants to boycott.

[Pachamama]

19. Looks like its a good thing I'm a Gap and Costco kind of girl....

And I'm happy to see Barnes & Noble too....

I'll make sure when I shop at those places I'll emphasize to my husband I'm supporting democracy! :bounce:

[Zech Marquis]

77. wow, the Gap an Barnes and Noble

2 more GOOD companies to spend my money at! Circuit City is not only a repuke company, it's also had a rather bad history of prejuidece towards black consumers :argh: Needless to say I never spend my money there!

[liberal N proud]

8. I can't by an apple, not compatible with software I use

The problem that I am facing, is the company I work for has a deal with Dell for some killer discounts on Dell merchendise.
It is so good they are hard to turn down when shopping for PC's and other electronics.
SO far, I have been restraining my self from using the discount, Just bought a new digital camera and spent a little more but avoided Dell.

[Deja Q]

46. Same here, especially now that Adobe has discontinued some of its products

for the Mac.

Such as Premiere - a truly wonderful video editing application.

[Poiuyt]

58. I think the reason Adobe discontinued Premier is because they know

they can't compete with Final Cut Pro, which is quickly becoming the standard among the independent film crowd.

[alfredo]

59. the reason they dropped premiere is because of Apple's

Final Cut Pro. They couldn't compete against FCP and the other video products out of Apple.

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/quicktour/


There have even been full length movies made using the Free iMovie that comes with OSX.
http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/

[charlie]

12. GAAAAH

Thought I'd pit Butterball vs Norbest, and as expected, Butterball's CEO is mostly Republican. Norbest's CEO turns out to be a Democratic supporter, but he backs the WRONG kind of Democrat.

So, if you want to go Democratic, consider some tasty Cornish Hens for your Christmas bird.

[Fiendish Thingy]

33. Or try a Deistel ortganic, no hormone Turkey

costs a little more, but the taste is worth it!
BTW, Mac rock!

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Looked at Dell's list

Anyone know anything about those few dem congress candidates stuck in there in the middle? Why was he supporting them? Zell clones? Stealth repukes? Or just personal friends on the other side? Did any of them win?

What's up with this?

[MrUnderhill]

14. I'll be happy to buy a Dell.

They're opening a new plant here in town that will end up employing 8000 people. There was a possibility they would open it overseas.


For 8000 new local jobs he can donate to whoever he feels like.




Besides. Macs are too quirky. ;-)

[OneTwentyoNine]

20. The plant in North Carolina?? Employ 8,000??

Sure as hell isn't what I read. Its 1,500 at its peak and of course Carolina tax payers get to write Dell a check for 242 million in tax breaks and incentives to locate there.

Think Mike Dell is doing this just for our economy?? Bullshit,he shipped tech jobs over to India without thinking twice about it,later brought them back--most likely because of thousands of consumer complaints. The reason their opening a plant here is simple,they can't afford to build a computer 12,000 miles from here and ship it back to the US.

I'd love to see if those jobs pay more than .50 per hour over minimum wage. Bet they don't,meanwhile Dell pays himself $20-30 million per year.

[MrUnderhill]

28. Yes, NC. 8000 is the total.

The plant itself is expected to be around 2000 (they don't GET those tax breaks if it's under 1800 or so). But the state estimates a total of 8000 jobs within three years when you include the suppliers/support companies that open up around it (based on what happened with their last plant).

And they aren't building computers here. It's going to be electronics. Likely printers and digital cameras that they now buy from overseas suppliers. I think that's a positive move.

Yes, Dell was one of the first companies to outsource to India... they're also the first to bring them back. I'm hoping they're setting an example for other companies.

The jobs won't pay what many of the furniture jobs we lost did, but they'll be more than the lost textile jobs, and a big chunk of those incentives actually end up with out own citizens getting better job skills.

[sandnsea]

61. Michael Dell doesn't run Dell anymore

He stepped down within the last year or two. Just clarifying that.

[Village Idiot]

23. Wash your mouth out!!!

You have OBVIOUSLY never owned a MAC.

[MrUnderhill]

29. Great.... the one Mac defender is the "Village Idiot". lol.

I just don't see a need to use substandard hardware. :-)




That ought to bring them running.

[four more wars]

70. Calm down a bit.....

both Mac's and PC's have their advantages.

I build my own PC because I like putting it together from individual parts I have chosen, and then working out the configuration, getting new drivers etc etc. it's a hobby, and one I enjoy.

But, If someone wants a computer to write letters, store music, surf the web, email and edit photos and movies without having to worry about anything to do with how it is actually working. I'd reccomend a Mac everytime.

Look at it this way, I get asked all the time by friends and family to fix their PC because it is 'Broken' and yet no one I know who has a Mac ever has any trouble with it at all...

just my $0.02

[auburngrad82]

52. I've heard 1500-2000 and most of them come with the company

There won't be very many locals getting jobs, from what I'm reading. Most of the workers are to be relocated to NC. We'll get tax revenue from the money these new residents spend in the state but with the huge tax break that Dell is getting I think it's pretty much a losing proposition.

[MrUnderhill]

54. I trust that Easley knows what he's doing.

Some other possible things to consider:

1) Companies don't usually relocate $30k jobs (the reported average)

2) This plant will be producing consumer electronics... not computers. Dell doesn't have a workforce currently doing this - they otusource production of their printers, scanners, digital cameras, and flat TVs (mostly overseas).

3) A BIG portion of the local incentives are the county paying the education expenses to local universities to train up the new workforce. They wouldn't get any benefit from that incentive if they're bringing the workforce with them.... why insist on it?

4) One of the big selling factors of the area was the available workforce caused by the recent manufacturing layoffs. Again... whyy would they care if they weren't hiring anyone?




I have no doubt that much of the management of the facility will be shipped in, but I expect plenty of new jobs to be created. As I said above... the "8000" figure is the estimate of total job gains resulting from opening the facility. Most of those jobs are NOT at Dell, but rather at suppliers that move in when Dell comes to town.

[taps]

15. That's a great site!!!!!!!

You can type in your zip code and see who's dontated and to whom in the past several years...very interesting! Thanks

[Walt Starr]

16. For those who have no reason to own a Mac

Buy an HP, 61% Democratic support.

[Village Idiot]

24. REASON #1 to NOT buy HP:

CEO Carly Fiorina is an outsourcing she-beast from hell...

[Walt Starr]

26. I wn't have a Mac

Unless I build it myself, it's HP or Dell.

Of the two, HP is better.

[President Jesus]

37. Reason #1a: Fiorina donated $2000 to GW Crotch

http://www.newsmeat.com/ceo_political_donations/George_Soros.php

for some reason, the FEC reports it as "Mr" Carleton S. Fiorina, but the donation is indeed from Carly.

[jmowreader]

66. Reason #1b: Her husband donated $2000 to Bush also

Carly's who I think Bush will pick if he needs a new VP. This pick does a few things for him: it keeps all of the Repug elected officials where he needs them, it brings someone in who very few people know, and it gives him the chit for being the first to have a female vice-president.

[Deja Q]

43. It's IT. They ALL outsource. And, yes, Carly Fiorina's comments are

despicable, to say the least.

[Touchdown]

27. I just love the tired old platform fan-boy battles...

...whenever Apple Macintosh is brought up.:eyes:

"Can't do...won't do...I refuse to...it's crap...won't work...too quirky...no games...yada, yada, yada." Most of the time, without any knowledge, or practical experience with macs to back up these seriously uninformed opinions. It's downright freeperish. "Macs are socialist, euthanasia supporting baby killers of computers." ...Yes, Walt, that includes YOU!;)

BTW: It's not a reason to have a mac, it's a reason NOT to have one.

[raggedcompany]

30. thanks for pointing that out n/t

[Laelth]

34. Very Interesting

Thanks for that link.

Did anyone notice A LOT OF PEOPLE SUPPORTING TOM DASCHLE, INC.? I used the "billionaires" link (bottom right) to see what various oligarchs were doing with their cash, and it seems like a lot of them (especially the ones who donate heavily to Republicans) also donated money the PAC above. Curious. Of course, Bill Gates has already donated money to Harry Reid. Covering his assets by controlling the minority leader.

:puke:

-Laelth

[AP]

36. Everyone donates to Minority/Majority leaders and the chairman of

committees that regulate their businesses.

Remember when people were making a big deal about Enron giving Byrd 2,000 bucks.

Byrd said that he ONLY got ONE 2k donation from Enron despite the fact that he was the chairman of the committee that regulated their business. He said that that wasn't a donation, that was an insult.

EVERY BIG BUSINESS IN AMERICA will donate to the senate minority leader regardless of party affiliation or politics. It's the polite thing to do.

It isn't a sign that Daschle or Reid is corrupt. It's a sign that the whole fucking system is corrupt.

[AP]

35. Regardless of whether you like to use a PC at home, anyone notice this:

If you've ever used Macs and PCs in the office, it's obvious that part of the way PCs make money is that they support an intermediary layer of expensive tech service. You can't run a PC office without having to spend thousands on either an in-house tech department or a third party tech service company, and these are the people who encourage the use of Microsoft products.

Mac offices, on the other hand, require much smaller tech departments or no tech department at all. I used to play on the softball team of a friend's company -- they had about 150 employees worldwide where in the first 10 years of its existence the head of Accounts Receivable was the Mac IT department -- doing all the networking, troubleshooting, software installation, training, etc., for 5 offices (two in Europe) without limiting his effectiveness in the AR department. The AR department itself used PCs for doing the accounting and the tech company which supported those computers used to complain to the AR guy that they made almost no money from their contract with that company because they used Macs everywhere else in the office.

I suspect Microsoft makes money from creating business for the tech people who in turn insist that everyone installs Microsoft software which then requires the techs to debug, network, etc.

I'd love to see a study comparing the cost of running PCs vs Macs in the office, because, anecdotally, I think there's a huge difference that probably isn't matched by (and may even be inversely related to) productivity differences.

[Deja Q]

42. Okay. With all the chatter of the middle class, nixing the techs takes a

chunk out of the economy.

[AP]

48. But if it's an industry you don't need because computers can be designed

better, you're creating inefficiencies with that added layer. The company could be using that money to pay salaries, fund the pension, do R&D and deliver better products to their customers.

Extra layers may create some economic activity, but they don't always create efficiencies.

If someone said they could take your steering wheel out of your car but could hire four men to stand at each tire who would turn your car when you told them to do so, would you think, "oh, that's better because it'll create four new jobs and entire sector of the economy that handles all the new business created?

Those four guys, the car manufacturer, car buyers, and the whole economy would be better off if those four guys were working for companies that make steering wheels and companies which try to develop new technologies which help move the economy forward, and not backward.

[Poiuyt]

60. I heard a PC tech man once say

"If you want to get your work done, use Linux. If you want to be in heaven, use a Macintosh. If you want to keep me employed, use a PC."

[AP]

65. I think the business model of Microsoft is built-in inefficiencies and...

...a lack of competition.

They keep that service layer in business and they act as the lobbyist for IT departments to keep buying Microsoft's products.

[Deja Q]

40. Or build your own PC. Why be a slave to corporate america?

:shrug: It's cheaper to home-build (one gets far more power for the price.)

[retread]

51. "...slave to corporate america" I assume you are using Linux

and only open source software on your homebrew machine?

[Applepie]

47. I love my

iBook. My first PC was a HP it was good. I then bought a Dell I do not like it. I now use an iBook and love it.

[transeo]

55. I need both

I have to have a Mac and a PC to properly test my code. I have to say though, if I could choose one, it would be the Mac Powerbook. It is faster than the PC, even though it has a "slower" processor and is far more reliable and user friendly.

[Beacho]

56. Don't buy off the shelf

I put together my own computer and I will never buy off the shelf again

My computers specs

2.4 ghz Intell Processor(with hyperthreading)

120 mg Hard Drive

512 pc 3200 ram

Intel Motherboard 800mhz FSB(using 64mb onboard sound and video chipset) w four usb +2 front side usb ports)

Adonized steel blue case with two side fans, rear fan, option for front side fan, 350watt power supply

All for a little over 600 bucks!

Check out newegg.com. I was dubious about ordering online, but so many had recommended these people that I took the chance

I WILL NEVER BUT AN OFF THE SHELF COMPUTER AGAIN!

[jmatthan]

57. The Mac is for people who want to get their work done

The PC is for those who "pretend" they are getting their work done!!

And ROI is infinitely better with a Mac!!

For 20 years I have used a variety of Macs and almost every person, mainly top scientists working on high temperature Superconductors, specialised gas sensing devices, laser modification of integrated circuits, fine line technology, and many more technology breaking subjects, seeing my output performance, changed to Macs.

In the 7 years I was running the laboratory and for 7 years onwards when I was in touch with the lab, not a single Mac was retired except the very first one, my Apple IIC which was auctioned and bought by my from the University and it is still running great!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[AP]

64. The economics of using a PC are like the economics of computer voting.

One of the reasons we have e-voting is because it is expensive. If it costs millions to count votes that means you can create an industry which uses the money it makes to buy politicians to buy your machines even though it would be cheaper and more accurate to do the job a different way.

PCs require a layer of technicians who make money out of the inefficiences of Microsoft, and they use their proximit to the IT department to lobby for more money-making inefficiencies that keep you in business.

Macs don't have that support-layer which acts as a lobbyist.

That's why they have Mac stores now. They are the lobbyists for Macs--they talk directly to the customers and their job is to say that once you leave the Mac store you won't need the technician, but if you have an problems, come in and talk to us for free.

[burrowowl]

67. A University has built the world's

3rd fastest supercomputer with Mac 5's.
It isn't the clock cycles, it is waht is done with them.
HP used to be best for math computing but the PCs you buy have been Intel corrupted. There calculators are still the best. Apple has always had very good math algo and floating point.

[charlie]

68. Currently number 7

The supercomputer race has become so heated, getting top spot is like winning the Badass of the Week award.

http://www.top500.org/lists/plists.php?Y=2004&M=11

That Mac computer is pretty amazing. It went from design to finish in 90 days! Pretty to look at too:

http://www.tcf.vt.edu/systemX.html

[Siyahamba]

69. Duuuude, you're getting drafted!

Dell's new slogan.

[high density]

73. I buy parts and build the computer myself

I don't like Apple or Dell computers. I have no use for an Apple computer because software development for Windows doesn't happen on an Apple.

I don't know why the Apple users on this message board are so defensive. I don't care what type of computer you use, and I'm sure you don't care what computer I use. You use what you like, and I'll use what I like. Usability wise, I don't see a whole lot of difference between an Apple and a PC for most typical computer tasks.

[jmatthan]

79. I cannot agree with this at all

The virus emails, literally millions of them, originate primarily from infected PCs.

I have had to close down one domain name in Canada as it was running on a Windows NT Server and it became impossible to protect my own domain name from the sheer volume of virus generated emails.

Not a single virus has infected my Mac networks in 20 years!! My Macs have never generated a single virus email.

We have to live togtether but there must be a monetary punishment for people from whose PC system virus emails originate and cost us non-Mac users money.

If I am not wrong there are over 100000 of such viruses on the PC platform. Luckily my present ISP in Finland has Unix server and it keeps filtering most of them out, but imagine the cost burden being passed on to people who are not users of PCs!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[high density]

82. No virus has taken control of my PC since I first started in 1994

None hit my Commodore 128 before that, but it was never connected to a modem. :)

Macs would be targeted by viruses if the user base were larger. The teenagers making these things aren't going to target the few percent of the market, they're going to go attack the majority of the users that have Windows-based PCs. A mass emailing program could run on a Mac as well, so don't blame me for other people failing to act like smart computer users.

As for running internet servers on Windows NT, XP, or 2003, I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

[jmatthan]

85. Interesting reply but

Would you think 0 to 100000 seems to be an alternate interesting percentage to consider?

Can you imagine the headlines if any hacker were to crash the Mac system!!! Nothing that any hacker would simply pass by!!!

Further, the mass of PC users are not "intelligent" users like you so we Mac users have to suffer. So penalise anyone who sends out virus generated emails and the company that produces software that permits it - and compensate those who have to waste their time fgetting rid of these virus generated emails!!

If Macs were causing a problem such as this I would be after APPLE to solve the problem. Microsoft has been unable to solve this problem as it is still a very very bad copy of the old Mac interface.

I am a computer idiot and still have not had to call in an IT service engineer in 20 years. In the main Mac problems are very easily solved, even by an uninformed user, like me.

In 20 years the only major problem I really had was power outage which caused my Mac to fail. But because it was a Mac the insurance company gave me a brand new one to replace the old one for just $100 - and my old one was repaired for $350. So now, besides my PowerBook 170 which has been running non-stop and trouble-free since 1992 and my Apple IIc which I have used since 1984, I have two powerful Macs, an iMac and and eMac and two great absolute classic Mac Peforma 6400's running strong since 1997-1998!!

Just last week I taught a middle aged lady to do her work on her first Mac (a PowerBook Titanium) in just 30 minutes. Her husband, a computer geek who works on such advanced languages as Symbian, etc. waits for the lady to go to her gym, shopping, etc. to get to use the Mac, and the stable Unix base which lies underneath, for some really advanced computing work which you will see probably only in a year or two!! He is thrilled with this computer as it is a dual user power level computer (having ditched his HP and DELL) (much to the disgust of his wife)!!!

So it satifies both ends of the user spectrum - and without any major virus in 20 years.

There is one rider to all this - do not use ANY Microsoft software on a Mac if you want to stay trouble free!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[Zech Marquis]

76. another reason I chose my iMac G5

steve Jobs has been a big Democratic donator for quite some time. In fact, Big Dog and Hillary stayed at one of his big mansions when they visited Chelsea at Stanford.

[Art_from_Ark]

78. Don't forget--

Al Gore is on the Apple board of directors

By the way, I have to use a PC at work-- ARGH! XP sux!

[Steely_Dan]

80. MacPassion

It's amazing to me how PC users so easily dismiss the Mac...The fact is, that with such a dominate market share (something like 93%), it is hard to see past the trees...

I was born and raised on a Macintosh. Any attempt to explain to a PC user why there is such passion amongst diehard MacAddicts seems silly to the average person. It's one of those..."If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand" kind of things...but we try.

Has it occurred to anyone that Apple has been able to survive in a predominately PC world all these years despite horrible business decisions and other factors? This tells me something about both the Apple product AND the Apple user.

The fact is, that most PC computer companies are not (in fact) computer companies...they are assembly plants. They pull together from a wide variety of independent vendors to build each system. Is it any wonder why the PC has suffered (off and on) with compatibility issues? What's worse, is that these parts and peripherals are integrated with a system that is undoubtedly inferior from the start. That is to say, that the PC platform began as NOT the most ideal platform on which to build a solid and reliable system from. It was almost as if the system wasn't quite perfected when it took off in the market...it seems that they have been trying to patch their way ever since.

Okay...so the Mac isn't for everyone. I mean, not everyone needs a reliable, elegant, straightforward platform in which to accomplish his or her tasks. I once heard a PC tech say: "If you want to count beans...buy a PC...If you want to create something, buy a Mac."

Now, the gap between the two systems has been closing for 20 years. It's hard to find much of a difference anymore in many key applications, etc. I work at a Film School here in CA - And as you might imagine - Everything that the student uses is Mac and everything the administration uses is a PC. I might add that Final Cut Pro is the software of choice by both faculty and staff - as well as students. The digital labs here are lined with Macs running the latest editing and production software available - But I digress...

As I was saying...the gap between the two has been closing for years. But when you think about it (IMHO), the PC world is the one catching up to the Mac world. It has been that way ever since Gates stole the operating system idea from Jobs (off the Lisa) years ago - resulting in Windows. Of course, lets not forget that Jobs lifted the GUI idea from Xerox...

As far as I'm concerned...A PC will never be more than a cheap imitation of a Macintosh.

It wasn't that long ago that Beta lost out to the VHS system. Ever since, we have been using an inferior format (VHS)...maybe Sony made some poor business decisions...but whatever, the marketplace did not end up with the best available system for home recording. I sort of see the Mac/PC thing the same way, For me, the inferior system won out...and the world has been dealing with it ever since.

I don't know why I have such a passion for the Mac...some tell me that it is just a tool and that there is nothing to be passionate about. Like I said - If I have to explain it to you, you will never get it. Being a diehard Mac user...it's almost a calling to support the underdog...the David to the Goliath - fighting the good fight.

(My apologies to my PC friends)

-Paige

[Lydia Leftcoast]

81. Here's why I use Macs:

1. Whenever I buy some new software, the Mac instructions for installations say: Insert CD in slot, read the legal statements and agree to them, click on Install." The PC instructions are half a page long. Who needs the hassle?

2. I have no sense of programmer macho. I don't need to run Windows or Linux to feel that I'm working on a "real" computer. (I recall when the Mac first came out, some programmer friends scoffed at it because it was too simple.) However, should I ever at this late date become interested in fancy computer tricks, I have the option of going into the command line and playing programmer.

3. I'm not a techie. I don't want to build my own computer from components when I can go to one of the local Apple dealers, choose a base model for processor speed, keyboard type, and screen size, order the add-ons (RAM, Airport, software, type of CD or DVD drive, peripherals, etc.) and have it ready in a couple of hours.

I use my computer for bilingual word processing, elementary spreadsheet operations for my business, e-mail, and the Internet. I'm not a gamer at all (I was already in my twenties when the first video games came out, and I've never developed an interest).

Macs are just friendlier than PCs. That's an unscientific way to put it, but that's how I feel.

[charlie]

84. This is why I use a PC

I know just where Mac aficionados are coming from. I was a devotee of the Greatest PC on Earth -- the Amiga. I spent a decade in the Amiga wilderness. Mac-like GUI, multitasking, rich color palette, 4-channel stereo sound, Unix-like command set, it was a George Jetson computer in a world of Your Dad's Oldsmobiles.

And nobody wanted it.

At its peak, there were maybe 2 million of us in the US, 20 million worldwide. There was a dearth of software, every time I logged into a new BBS, if there was an Amiga section at all it was a ghetto, a paltry collection of programs I already had. No one to talk to, couldn't share the amazing stuff I had with the PC hordes, hardware support came through mailorder instead of popping off to the mall... it was a miserable experience.

So, in 1997 I reluctantly joined the Borg collective, got a Win95 PC and an internet account -- and found a world awash in free software, howtos, advice, and the system compatibility to swap with everybody. The OS was a huge headache, but there was ready access to all I needed to maintain it. And since the PC itself was nothing more than a stack of commodity parts, unlike the Amiga's custom components, fixing the stuff that crapped out was a snap.

With WinXP, MS has finally produced an OS that, as the saying goes, it good enough to critique. So, while I'm not a Windows maven, I'm content where I am today.

[Cha]

83. I have a stupid dell from the bushman

michael but the next one I get will be from someone who doesn't support fascism.

Thanks for the tips.

And I certainly won't be building it myself..so I appreciate this thread.

[UdoKier]

86. Considering his ludicrous salary, Jobs has given VERY little

to progressive politicians.

I am a longtime MacUser, love the platform, but I don't worship at the altar of Steve.