Kerry is a lib in moderate's clothing; Dean is a mod in lib's clothing.

[stickdog]

Whatever.

Which one of them has the guts to yell out, "The boy king has no clothing"?

This is a critical time in US history. Not just rhetorically. Really and truly.

Hell, before the boy king came along I could have been called a fiscal pragmatist. But when you are up a radical usurper who has been destroying America day after day and issue by issue, it radicalizes you. This is only NATURAL for a human being with ANY CONVICTIONS WHATSOEVER.

Bush has been given a free ride long enough. He's not a good guy trying to do good things. He's a fucking menace and a cancerous growth on American history. It's WORTH ANY PUTATIVE RISK TO GET THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS OUT IN THE OPEN, especially since it's even MORE risky NOT TO.

I was hoping Kerry would redefine himself as Bush's most eloquent and heavy hitting critic. But he just doesn't seem to have it in him. His campaign is still thinking in terms of triangulation, safety, moderation and strategic product placement. Or maybe he simply can't bring himself to wholeheartedly bash something he simply let fester silently by playing it safe for so long.

Newsflash: We're not in the 1970's or 1980's or even 1990's anymore. "Compassionate conservative" now means one thing only: "Lying, two-faced PR-sensitive betrayer." It's as if Kerry doesn't even realize that everybody who is politically awake who isn't a neocon ideologue has had it up to their eyes with the media's and the Democratic Party's silence in the face of the systematic rape and murder of our formerly great nation.

We need the truth. We need to hear what Wellstone or Byrd or even Jeffers would tell us if they had the national stage. We are crying, begging, pleading, pounding, raging for the GOD DAMN TRUTH!

When will one of the DLC's pet candidates break down and just tell us the truth? About Bush, about Iraq, about deficits, about the voting machines, and about the Patriot Act?

Are they really going to destroy their own candidacies one by one just to try to weaken the one guy with a real chance who is telling it like it is?

[quinnox]

1. I agree with your headline

That sums it up.

[StopTheMorans]

2. great post!

n/t

[blm]

3. Guess you missed his speeches

calling out the corporations who fund Bush's machine.

Do you bother to read his speeches?

Is media spin all it takes for you?

[stickdog]

8. I really liked his speech. I thought it was the start of something good.

But why the retreat into the standard equivocating?

Why the attacks on Dean for not being close enough to Bush on taxation, Iraq and the unbalanced budget?

Why the linking of Bush and Dean, and even the praising of Bush as a person?

[blm]

11. Saying that Bush is the same guy from college

a likable, privileged partyboy, is NOT high praise. When are you going to figure out that he uses velvet gloves when he wields the sharpest blows?

Democrats have always been for progressive taxation. To roll it back equally is more a GOP tactic than a Democratic value.

[Eloriel]

13. Oh, please, blm

There's "spin" and then there's "delusional." You've just crossed that line with your velvet gloves/ sharpets blows remark and gone well beyond.

Eloriel

[blm]

18. Oh please, Eloriel...call me delusional

and a liar, those are my favorites from you. Good day, oh pleasant one.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

4. I'm regret to inform you

that political campaigns are about fudging one's positions as much as possible in order to appeal (and not repel) to as many people as possible. It is not a time of "truth telling" and "speaking out"

We need to hear what Wellstone or Byrd or even Jeffers would tell us if they had the national stage

There's a reason why Wellstone, Byrd, Jeffords, etc have not pulled themselves up onto that national stage. If they were truly as principled as you seem to feel they are, they would have done so.

They haven't

[dpbrown]

7. Wellstone'd have a harder time of it than the others

Seeing as he's under 6 feet of earth right now.

Along with Carnahan.
And RFK.
And MLK.
And JFK.

The candidate who will beat the BFEE will call it on all its lies while offering a decent vision for the future. This nation is ready for a fire-breathing populist.

[sangh0]

12. He was around for decades

and was a member of the Senate for a number of years.

[dpbrown]

21. Yeah, but he's dead now

So when you say:

"There's a reason why Wellstone... (has) not pulled (himself) up onto that national stage. If (he was) truly as principled as you seem to feel (he is, he) would have done so."

You're ignoring the fact that he's dead, regardless of what he might have done earlier. In fact, Wellstone made quite a name for himself doing just that, that meaning standing up on the national stage for issues he fought for, while he was alive.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[sangh0]

24. You're ignoring the fact

that while Wellstone was alive, he never made the effort to pull himself up onto that national stage. Yes, he "made a name for himself", but the important word in that phrase is "himself"

[dpbrown]

39. Well, I disagree with you

He barely decided not to run for President himself in 2004, and he was well known all over the nation for his courageous stands. All that is meaningless when you're talking about a "subjective" definition of "national stage" anyway. Whatever is offered, one can just say "not enough."

I just thought it was funny you didn't even recognize that he was dead in lumping him in with those other people.

Continue tweaking me if you want, I'm letting this discussion drop.

[sangh0]

42. "barely decided not to"?

Is that another way of saying "He didn't run"?

he was well known all over the nation for his courageous stands.

So he said that:

1) Bush stole the election?
2) Bush was involved in 9/11?
3) That Bush* was lying about Saddam's WMD's?

There are plenty of things Wellstone never spoke out about. Cynthia McKinney spoke out, and paid the price for it.

[stickdog]

I regret to inform you that any candidate who tries that shit this time

around is going down hard.

Look at Lieberman's numbers in SC for God's sake. Can't you read the Gad damn writing on the wall?

THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE A NORMAL ELECTION!

[sangh0]

16. Boy are you wrong

*ALL* of the candidates will not only do that, they have almost *ALL* started doing it already. And Lieberman is one of the few who are actually taking strong specific positions. Too bad they're such crappy positions

[kentuck]

5. Contrary to a few publicized positions...

I think you are mostly correct...:)

[sandnsea]

6. Dennis Kucinich

He *is* really telling it like it is, I really agree with that. Is he your candidate? Because I really don't know for sure.

[JohnKleeb]

9. I think Dean is stick's candiate correct me if I am wrong thought stick

btw I am for DK. I think this election is a crossroads, it will determine things, DK has the vision and its a shame he doesnt get publicity sigh if you wanna know what gets me down its that.

[dpbrown]

19. stickdog's baiting Kucinich people, JohnKleeb

He's got bitter medicine he thinks we need.

[stickdog]

33. No. I read your article. I liked it. I'm not trying to pull the rug out.

I'm just communicating my views on this to DK supporters on DU just like I have to my own brother.

For now, we agree to disagree, but we understand and respect each other's POV. And that's fine, don't you think?

[JohnKleeb]

35. I can agree to disagree just dont generalize us

Ive seen this article many times. Sorry if I get mad but I am proud to support who I support you can do the same, I aint stopping you.

[stickdog]

10. Cute. (NT)

Sorry, I'm neither a renegade green nor under 30.

[sandnsea]

14. Did I say that?

Kucinich is the pure anti-war candidate. Anybody on the side of Dennis doesn't get alot of argument from me. I know right where Dennis stands. He's an awesome human being, like I told John Kleeb, his ideals are just too good for us lowly humans. It's a shame we live in a society where somebody like Dennis is considered 'a loony liberal'. But that's where we are.

on edit:

Oops, I thought I read John Kleeb's post to say Dennis was your candidate. Sorry, never mind.

[JohnKleeb]

15. hi

It is a shame and btw stick I am a democrat maybe on the green fringe but I am a democrat. Yes under 30 but I can introduce you to someone over 30 and a democrat for DK. Theres a lot about Kucinich that inspires me. You dont have to be me to know that he nails a lot of issues down. That said, I am very proud to support who I support.

[stickdog]

27. So does my little brother for whom I have ultimate respect.

I understand. I'm proud of Dennis, what he stands for and all of his supporters. He's a true progressive, and we haven't had a Dem candidate like him in quite a while.

I just hate Bush so much that I don't have time for any pipe dreams this election cycle.

[JohnKleeb]

36. they called dean a pipe dream at one time too essentilly

Stick its not like me or your bro is supporting Bush. Youre supporting who you feel is right and I am doing the same, just different people. Dont worry about it I thought you were being jerky at first but you are ok although my opinion doesnt matter ;) because I am a Kucinich supporter.

[stickdog]

38. John, I read you opinion daily.

I'm not trying to change your mind.

And I'm not trying to bait Dennis' supporters in general.

So far, Dean has had the better campaign.

Plus, everybody's a pundit -- including me.

But even my lil bro thinks if DK ever became a real threat for the Presidency, they'd probably Wellstone him.

[sendero]

20. I agree with you...

... and I agree with the original post.

DK seems like a great man, and the *only* reason he's not my first choice is that I don't think he will play in Peoria.

My current favorite, Dean, is *not* a classical liberal. Ironically, that is the reason he has a real shot at getting elected.

After the smear job the VWRC has done on the straw-man liberal, it will be a long time before you see a true liberal president.

Liking reality is one thing, denying it is something else :)

[stickdog]

23. And he hurts Dean and he's no risk to Kerry.

Of course you have no problems with him. I have no problems with him either except that he's playing Nader to Dean's Gore vs. Kerry's Bush.

[sandnsea]

28. Not true at all

Alot of Kucinich supporters have said Kerry is their second choice. Most people on this board, no matter who their primary candidate is, say Kerry is their second choice. Kucinich is not taking votes away from Dean, that's just nonsense.

[stickdog]

34. Sure (NT)

[JohnKleeb]

37. *points to himself* yeah I consider Kerry my back up

Really is ironic and no offense stick just an observation on my part that some of Kerry's biggest critics are Dean supporters. Ironically I a Kucinich supporter tend to defend him at times. Look on Kerry, he aint so bad.

[dpbrown]

40. Kerry is my second choice

Dean's somewhere down the list.

I'm not taking a vote away from Dean.

I don't like Dean's position on Universal Single Payer Health Care.
I don't like Dean's position on the death penalty.
I don't like Dean's position on getting out of Iraq.
I don't like Dean's position on getting farmers into the energy production business.
I don't like Dean's position on making the Pentagon more accountable to the taxpayers.
I don't like Dean's position on NAFTA and the WTO.
I don't like that Dean isn't even a war hero like Kerry is to counteract President AWOL.

So even if Kucinich bowed out right now, I wouldn't be supporting Dean, because he's not the best candidate. He's just "popular" right now.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[stickdog]

41. He's just "popular" right now.

I don't like Dean's position on Universal Single Payer Health Care.

Kucinich stands alone against the rest of the field on issue.

I don't like Dean's position on the death penalty.

Kerry says "death is too good" for really bad people. He wants to punish them with a harsher lifetime of cruelty instead.

I don't like Dean's position on getting out of Iraq.

Which differs from Kerry's how?

I don't like Dean's position on getting farmers into the energy production business.

Why not?

I don't like Dean's position on making the Pentagon more accountable to the taxpayers.

Why not?

I don't like Dean's position on NAFTA and the WTO.

Dean's position here is much closer to Kucinich's than Kerry's. If you think otherwise, please explain yourself.

I don't like that Dean isn't even a war hero like Kerry is to counteract President AWOL.

So you like war heroes who aren't accountable to taxpayers?

Sorry, if I'm beginning to suspect you have little clue about anyone's stances other than Kucinich.

Nor have you considered the importance of the type of grassroots, small donation campaign Dean is running to your own desire for even more radical change.

[oasis]

17. "Say one thing, do another, president": Kerry's description of the Chimp

Not good enough? :shrug:

[OrdinaryTa]

22. Say One Thing, Do Another

Say One Thing, Do Another is the title of Kerry's autobiography.

[oasis]

30. Kerry's "autobiography" will list the accomplishments of an American

who dedicated his life to provide meaningful and real service to his country. Some decisions he made that you don't agree with will also be included.

[stickdog]

25. It's great. I just want it 24/7. I want a leader who is not afraid to

lead people to the truth about what's been going on.

[oasis]

32. If only Kerry could get the same media coverage as "other" candidates

you would hear much more.

Do you remember him getting flak after saying "America needs a regime change"?

[blm]

43. I noticed all the network coverage of Kerry's VFW speech

on the same stage as Condi and Rummy where he lambasted Bush. Yeah...the networks were tripping over themselves to highlight it. Oops...no...they couldn't cover it, they were too busy promoting Dean.

[Starpass]

26. Something that has always fascinated me and given me the chuckles

No---I won't be voting for Dennis because the poor soul doesn't have a prayer in hell of winning BUT......I keep hearing like a zillion posts a day about how Howard Da' Man is the only one of the scumbags to stand up and call Bush what he is to his face, blah, blah. Bullshit. Dennis could write a book and then try to train Dean in how to stand up and go for Bush's face. AND YOU KNOW WHAT??? Dennis has had to put his ass on the line in the US Congress as an elected representative and speak out and vote. And Dennis did it every damn day. Let's stop being this sanctamonous cheering section and give credit where credit is due. I'll vote Clark or Kerry and you guys can do the "blood on their hands" tap dance on me all day long BUT if you want a real (I had to do it for a living) hero who has taken Bush on in days when it was not only not popular but dangerous to do so, then Dennis is the one who is truly DA MAN!!!

[sandnsea]

29. Well said

And even compared to Edwards, who came up in 'modest' surroundings, Kucinich actually came up under the truly tough circumstances that millions of Americans face every day. He really is Seabiscuit, as corny as that sounds! The more I really think about what he has accomplished, how he has always stuck by his principals no matter what, how he always champions the people; he really should have more support from the Democrats in general. I think I need to send him some money.

[stickdog]

31. I agree wholeheartedly. And I hope Dennis raises his profile

and becomes an important force in the party using Dean's grassroots and fund raising strategies to his advantage.

I like that he is in the race. His voice (when he's not yelling) is very important.

[blm]

44. DAMN STRAIGHT, Dennis is TRULY DA MAN!!!!

And those who stepped all over him to buy the media BULLSHIT about Dean being the liberal antiwar candidate while ignoring the REAL liberal antiwar candidate PISSES ME OFF!

These same people who sanctimoniously declare Kerry a warmonger who will never get their vote STEP ON DENNIS to fawn over someone whose real position was NOT antiwar.

[JohnKleeb]

45. Can I just thank you

Its interesting people are attracted to Dean by his fighting tendecies but if you look and more so read about Dennis hes been fighting Bush for a while. BTW though a Kucinich supporter and devout opponent of the Iraq war, I do often defend Kerry. I love your line Dennis could write a book I bet he could. The special thing he does is not just attack the war's legalness but the morals of it. He is a religious man but he explains it in a secular yet in some ways religious way.