Harvard Law to Bar Military Recruiters

[scarlett1]

About Damn time someone stood up to the Miliatry recruiters
The reason they do not have a nondiscrimination policy.

<snip>
"Harvard Law School Dean Elena Kagan said the decision, effective Tuesday, will allow the school to enforce its nondiscrimination policy without exception, "including to the military services."


Harvard had forbidden any recruiter from campus — military or otherwise — that couldn't sign off on the school's nondiscrimination policy. Harvard, like other schools, said the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was discriminatory, because it forbids overt gays and lesbians from serving in the armed forces."


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041201/ap_on_re_us/military_recruiters_harvard

[bowens43]

1. Good!

[scarlett1]

3. Thank You bowens43

This was my very first posting of a thread.
You are my first reply, again thank you.:bounce:

[Gothmog]

8. Welcome to DU

Your first post is a good one. Keep it up.

[scarlett1]

9. Thanks, I was looking for a good headline on Yahoo

saw this one.

I wanted my first thread to be about something and not just a :puffpiece:

[bowens43]

16. Welcme to DU!

Glad to see you posting. Military recruiters make me crazy. I have two teenage sons, one in college and one in high school, and I get calls from the marines nearly every day. I tell them the boys aren't interested but that doesn't stop them. They go to the high school and harass the young men during lunch. Last year when my son told them he wasn't interested because he was going to college they told him that college was a waste of time. They told him that if he really wanted to get ahead he should join the marines and forget about college. I was furious. I went to the school and talked to the principle about it, he just said they were overzealous. They still do it.

anyway...welcome!

[Bozita]

2. I would think that most Harvard Law students could find recruiters ...

... without the help of the school.

[imax2268]

4. I happen to catch

Orielly making a big stink about this last night...acting like a moron as usual and making his opinion about it the only thing that mattered...

[agarrett1]

5. Bad!

I think this is a bad decision on the part of the school on two counts.

First, I expect the lawsuit to be reversed. There is no doubt that the administration will appeal this decision, and I expect they'll win. The government has a compelling interest in ensuring military staffing - you can easily argue it is the primary function of government. Thus, denying federal funding to an institution that prohibits military recruiting is likely legitimate. If this gets up to the Supreme Court level, I fully expect a reversal.

Second, I think Harvard is wrong on the merits. They've opposed the military for a long time - the non-discrimination is simply their latest excuse. In any event, if they want to improve the caliber of the military, they should want their graduates to go there. This is the root of my disagreement with their policy.

Drew Garrett

[northzax]

10. The school does not ban government recruiters

like from the SEC, or Treasury, who might be interested in hireing graduates. And I doubt that HLS takes military funding (outside of tuition and the GI bill, which are benefits to the individual, not the school) therefore the school is perfectly entitled to only allow recruiters who's employment policies are in line with that of the school. I do not believe that any school that takes Military funding (for research and the like) can bar military recruiters.

Harvard (and other schools) have a written and enforced policy of non-discrimintation based on Gender, race, religion, ethnic background, financial status and sexual orientation. My understanding of the law is that they have the right to bar anyone from campus who expressly states that they are not interested in a certain population of students, despite their qualifications, based on one of these reasons. I would expect them to do the same to a law firm who refused to hire Jews, or a business that only hired men, and expressly stated that this was their policy.

on edit: lastly, the government will not take this to this Supreme Court (if it will take it, which I doubt) this court has been unusually friendly to the rights of organisations as well as to gay rights. At the level of the Supremes, hte government risks the court basically calling for the overturning of the anti-gay policy of the military, much as it has done to every previous anti-gay policy it has reviewed in the last 5 years.

[RivetJoint]

6. Wonder if the Govt will cut off Federal funding...

[northzax]

7. They really want to spend tax money to recruit at Harvard Law?

is the average Harvard Law grad, burdened by 100,000 in student loans going to join the military and make 35,000/year? I wonder how many people the recruiting program at HLS has been, and whether ir's really a good use of our money?

It is worth noting, however, that Harvard's Law and Business schools are, in fact, favourites of the military, who have been known to send promising officers there on Uncle Sam's dime to continue their education (which I have no problem with) I just think that recruiting might be better done somewhere else.

[RivetJoint]

11. They actually get paid more than that

about 45,000 after the first six months...

[northzax]

12. ok, $45,000/year

after taxes comes to about 28,000. Even with complete government paid housing and living expenses, that leaves the soldier with loan payments of roughly 1,500/month. or take home, after loans, of roughly $600/month for food, gas, and everything else. Assume they want to live off base, and they are running an immediate deficit.

[RivetJoint]

13. Nope ,about 13,000

of that money is tax free. And, there is a good chance that ALL of the money would be exempt from state taxes as well. All in all, its NOT a bad deal for someone who wants to serve.

[atre]

14. That is a good deal????

I know students from average law schools who have accepted starting offers that are almost double that. I don't know why any HLS student would go into a JAG program unless they were specifically drawn to it for some reason other than money.

By the way, the "Few Good Men" character played by Tom Cruise did not actually go to Harvard Law School. He went to a rather average law school.

[RivetJoint]

15. SOME want to serve

Some see it as a "square filler." Not everyone is motivated by money.

[northzax]

17. and those that want to serve

go out and find ways to serve. I question the financial utility of spending money on recruiting people who have already made up their minds on a career choice.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

19. I would argue that most in law school-especially one like Harvard

are motivated by success. Finishing Harvard Law School guarantees a high-paying job at a prestigious firm. I doubt after 3 years of hell at the world's toughest law school that someone would be happy making $45K ayear...

[hughee99]

18. I was all for this earlier, but after some though

I'm not so sure. The US military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was not created by the military itself, but by the government. I think it was just an executive order, and I'm not sure if congress had any role in this, but it sounds like this is not an issue that the military itself can resolve, since it doesn't have the authority to change the policy. The true outrage should not be with the military itself for enforcing the policy, but with the government leaders who made the policy and allow this to continue. If this is the case, then shouldn't Harvard ban all government groups, not just the military, from campus?