My Family's Health Insurance went up 25% for no reason

[Poor Richard Lex]

I am self employed so we have to cover our own insurance costs. Today we got a notice that, starting next month, our premuims go up. Why? We have'nt been to the Dr. except for the kids' ckeckups.

Their reasoning - people in similar plans have seen an increase in medical care. So I cannot get a group plan because of the greedy insurance fucks, but my "group" has more claims so my premiums go up? WTF?

And there is nothing I can do to stop them. This BULLSHIT has got to stop.

thanks for listening /rant off

[Atman]

1. What do you mean "no reason?"

Of course there is a reason...

Bush got re-elected.

[ernstbass]

34. It is my sincere hope that

every repug's insurance premiums go through the roof!!!!!:hurts:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

2. Because they are greedy bastards.

I'm afraid that there is no other explanation.
Duckie

[Skidmore]

3. Sounds like mine this year AND our deductible went from

$500 to $6300.

[MatrixEscape]

4. Reason: Profit? n/t

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. Don't feel bad. I can't even get insurance.

I can pay for it through my job, but since we're a small company, I have to find it on my own. Since I have asthma, allergies, and am slightly overweight, I have been rejected.

[Ravenseye]

14. Who Rejected You?

I find it hard to believe you weren't able to find health insurance that would take you.

With the ailments you describe you would be able to get insurance. I know becuase I have asthma, allergies, and am overweight, but I got insurance.

Before I got it through a small business association, I checked into invidivudal plans. They were more expensive, and had a one year preexisting condition clause, but I coudl have had it. Basically my asthma etc wouldn't be covered for a year, but after that fully covered. I eventually went with the small business one because there were no pre-existing conditions clauses.

What companies did you look into? There's always a way to get insured, just not always a way to pay for it.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. Blue Cross and Kaiser.

[Ravenseye]

22. They Flat Out Rejected You?

Or did they say 'fine but we won't cover any of that for a year'?

I don't believe that they wouldn't cover you, period, because they would have covered me in that regard.

Not saying you're lying, just can't believe it.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. They flat out rejected me.

Don't forget, laws are different in every state. Some places they have to cover you, but charge outrageous premiums if anything is wrong. Others, they don't have to cover you at all.

[tk2kewl]

6. not to mention that junior wants to remove

health insurance as a tax credit for biz.

good luck, my sympathies

[whistle]

7. There is a very good reason for insurance rates to go up. . .

. . . More profits!

Sorry you had to take such a hit. My daughter is president of her own small business (12 full time employees of which I am one) and the rates will be going up 33% come February. The search will again begin to find health insurance that is reasonable but as a small business there is very littl bargaining power.

[shoelace414]

8. Medical savings accounts will cure this

[oneighty]

12. Please explain how

"Medical savings accounts will cure this"

180

[Bridget Burke]

13. They can't .

Medical savings accounts won't help somebody who wonders whether to make the mortgage payment or go in for a checkup.

If the kids are sick, money will be grubbed up somehow. But that Pap smear & mammogram will have to wait.

[shoelace414]

26. Medical savings accounts

doesn't and won't help at all. but it's being touted as health care reform. it just means you can pay for health care tax free, but it means you still have to pay for health care.

I'm still trying to figure out how it would help me pay for my wife's dyalisis.

[oneighty]

28. Oh. You were

being sarcastic. I wondered!

180

[reprobate]

32. Have you checked with Social Security?

Dialysis used to be covered under SS Disability. At least when I was in the insurance business. Check with them. I'm pretty sure it still is.

[shoelace414]

35. I still have a job so I have health insurance

[reprobate]

36. shoelace, if paying for your wife's dialysis is a problem,

give SS a call. As I recall, they cover dialysis whether or not the spouce carries a policy on the kidney patient. Covered under the Americans with Disabilities act IIRC.

[MadHound]

9. It is the same reason that insurance is going up across the board,

Including malpractice insurance. It isn't due to increased malpractice suits(those have gone down in number), or increased awards(the monetary awards have also gone down). It is due to two factors. The first is that insurance companies make the vast bulk of their money off of investments, and have been taking a bath for the past four years. Therefore, instead of eating their losses from the market, they are passing these losses on to us. Second factor is that there have been an increasing number of disasters that insurance companies have had to make pay outs for over the past decade. Not just the four hurricanes this year, but the increasingly costly fire season out west, increasing numbers of tornadoes here in the midwest, etc. etc. Global warming and the attendant destructive weather patterns are starting to take their toll on the insurance companies, and it will only get worse. Thus, they are passing those costs on to us, the consumer.

Yet instead of addressing these real problems, and calling for insurance regulation which is so desperately needed in this country, this misadministration is using these rising costs as an excuse to go after trial lawyers and the consumers right to fair settlements decided by juries rather than capped by law. And it isn't coincedental that these are the very groups that are such heavy donors for the democrats, while the insurance companies and the AMA are heavy hitters for the 'Pugs.

I don't know what we can do as a consumer, except see if you can find a lower rate with another company. Be happy that you can still get insurance. There are many people who have made one claim, and poof, they get dropped. It is simply outrageous. Last year when I was purchansing my house, it was literally the last minute before closing that I found a reputable insurance company that would issue a policy. I had been an excellent customer, paid on time, no claims. Yet due to a string of tornadoes in the area in the spring of '03, insurance companies were being VERY stingy about issuing policies on newly bought properties.

[gnofg]

10. bait and switch

I am with Blue cross and rhey did the great bait and switch. decent rate until all pre-existing were met then a 25% increase the next two years. Eventually it got to $900 per month. ouch!!!. I am also self employed. Here is the way to do your health ins. Become a C corp. When you are a C corp. you can pay for your health ins right out of your corporation. It is a business expense. Then set your insurance as a catastrophic plan. I pay $365 per month and I get 6 visits per person to my doctor with a $40.00 co-pay. I also get $250 towards my checkups. I then have a medical savings plan(Section 125 set up by netpay). All my bills are the paid pre-tax(big savings). My out of pocket is $4,000. This works. When businesses lose the tax deduction for healthcare all you Bushies watchout. You are in for a rude awakening.

[Ravenseye]

15. Spot On

Thats definately the way to go if you can do it. Personally, with a wife and a new baby we couldn't go catastrophic or we would have owed about 15k for the maternity bills, but yeah....in alot of cases this is one way to do it.

And you're right when the tax deduction is gone, everyone should look out not just the Bushies. You'll see alot of regular people start losign their healthcare via work, or see the cost more than double as the company stops matching or helping.

[gnofg]

18. not necessarily

The out of pocket is $4,000. Total that against your premium. My daughetr is on growth hormone and it was cheaper to go this way.

[Ravenseye]

21. Math Sucks

it has like...numbers and stuff...

Yeah it's all about figuring out what you need, and how much it'd cost in the varying methods. We figured right for us that this year with maternity, and other ongoing costs etc, to get the correct Health Insurance, figuring premiums versus costs at different levels.

[havocmom]

11. Insurance rates ALWAYS have a reason for increasing. Just not always

because of claims. Most often, it is because of poor stock performance.

Insurance companies take the premiums you pay and play the stock market with them. If stocks do well, no problem. When the market does not preform, BIG problem.

Since most of us have already been fleeced of our discretionary investment income and MANY have been fleeced of their retirement pensions (invested in the market by others) by corrupt corporations and hokus-pokus bookkeeping, the market is still searching for $$. There is a reason the government run by CEOs wants to put Social Security payroll withholdings into the market. Think about that as you pay your ever increasing (though you may never make a claim) insurance premiums.

[Poor Richard Lex]

16. this bait and switch policy was with Blue Cross

FYI small business owners there is a group calle "National Association for the Self Employed" (NASE) that offers this insurance through "Mega-Life and Health" - you may have heard O'Lielly shilling for them on the radio.

Anyway a few years ago we had our insurance through them, the rates were cheap. However they paid for NOTHING. It got to the point that we were paying them hundreds of dollars a month judt to carry their stupid card. Stay away from these hucksters, they promise a lot but they deliver nothing. We didnt have a maternity rider either and shelled out 15k for the dleivery of our second child (he was worth it however :)

[enough]

17. When is the small business health-insurance deduction ending?

Is this a done deal or just a gleam in somebody's eye?

[gnofg]

19. gleam

Bush wants it and I think he is going to get it. Business wants out of healhtcare. We are all in for a mess but at least we know what a scumbag Bush is and we expect it. They think he is great.

[Dr Ron]

24. Why didn't they support Kerry?

Businesses which are hurt by the cost of health care should have supported Kerry to get some relief. Of course if Bush gets them out of covering employees all together (or replacing coverage with medical savings accounts which are poor alternatives for the average working person) they may think they are better off.

Ironically, I think that Bush's policies increase the chances of "socialized medicine" long term. As long as people receive reasonalble coverage thru employers, there is no demand in this country. The more people are without coverage, the more they are going to look to the government to step in in the future. Of course by then the government will be so heavily in debt it might not be possible to add any new programs.

[Dr Ron]

23. You may be lucky

Are you saying that it hasn't gone up the last several years? I believe my policy has gone up every year (despite not using the insurance) and double digit increases annually has been the norm. As professional courtesy keeps us from having any meaningful health expenses, I have a $5000 deductible, really only needing catastrophic coverage. I still pay over $9000 per year.

This is one reason I laughed at Bush's claims that malpractice reform would solve the problem. While I would like to see the malpractic crisis solved, this would not affect health care expenses significantly. The CBO estimates that it would reduce health insurance costs by less than one half of one percent, which is negligible in light of typcial premium increases the last few years.

During the campaign, some people claimed Kerry's plan was not necessary as many of the uninsured earn over $50,000 per year. As a real policy (without such a high deductible) must cost well over $10,000 per year, this could be a hardship even for people making over $50,000 per year.

[gnofg]

25. wow!

What insurance company is putting it to you. Are you approaching 60.

[shesemsmom]

29. I understand

and it sucks...this is the first time in sometime that my insurance didn't go up. Of course over all the insurance stinks.

[bemildred]

30. I reduced mine to zero by telling them for screw off. nt

[samtob]

31. Former insurance agent checking in here.

I was in the insurance industry for years, I can try to explain some of this to you, in general terms of course (not your specific policy).

In regards to health insurance, you should plan on switching health insurance companies every three or four years. Reason being, much as you mentioned,

"Their reasoning - people in similar plans have seen an increase in medical care.:
Let me try to explain this a little better than they did.

When you first took out your policy, you were grouped with the other individuals who obtained insurance in that same quarter, (for actuarial purposes, statistics etc) If over the period of time you have been with this company (within your group) there have been large losses (claims paid out) they raise the premiums on the group. I know it seems that they should recoup their losses by increasing only the premiums for the people they lost money on, but here is the deal. They cannot force individuals to stay insured with them. They cannot force you to pay your premiums. They are locked into the contract with you, as long as you pay your premiums, they have to pay your medical bills per conditions in the policy. BUT you are not under contractual binding to pay your premiums. SO the possibility of getting a very large increase of premiums from just the individuals who had losses is not likely....they would go elsewhere. So, they raise the premiums of all in the group just a little and they are more likely to retain these customers.

If you are a healthy person, rarely seek medical care, therefore are not a burden on the insurance company, YOU ARE PAYING for other individuals health care (in addition to company overhead etc)

One of your options with most companies, is to re-apply, if you have not had any health problems, this is definitely an option. What they would do is review your application, your loss history etc, and if accepted, then they would insure you on a new policy at the current rate for new policies.

Let's say you are paying $300.00 per month now. A new customer applying to that same company may be quoted and insured with a premium of $200.00.


Of course the other option is to find a completely different company. In some states, if you have carried insurance continuously, the new company cannot exclude prior conditions if they except to insure you.

Now, to address a bit more about health insurance companies, well, all insurance companies that is.

Madhound was right in a lot of his post. Insurance companies make their profits from investment income, NOT PREMIUM dollars.

If an insurance company was not allowed to invest money for income, our premiums on any kind of insurance would be nearly triple what it is now. Property and Casualty companies (auto, home, property, commercial etc) typically pay out $1.07 (on average) for every $1.00 they receive in premium dollars. This is for claims paid, and administration costs (costs to operate company, overhead etc)

I would disagree with one point Madhound made in reference to regulation. Insurance companies are HIGHLY regulated. On a STATE level, not on a national level. All rate plans, change of rates, underwriting, policy conditions etc, must be justified to and approved by the State insurance commissioner's office.

[samtob]

33. I need to add

One matter no one is addressing in regards to health costs...


This is a side effect of the malpractice suit situation.

Doctors and hospitals have to practice medicine "defensively" because of the medical malpractice suit threat.

Example;

I will use my father as an example. Twenty three years ago, he had pneumonia. His doctor diagnosed him, prescribed medication, sent him home and ordered bed rest. Three years ago, he got pneumonia, his doctor told him "I believe it is pneumonia, but we need to run tests to make sure" A CAT scan, another scan which I cannot remember the name of (sorry), a series of blood tests, three days in the hospital, they were comfortable diagnosing him with pneumonia, prescribed medicine, sent him home ordering bed rest.

This is not unusual, actually it is common place. Tests can be very expensive, but the doctors must run them all so they are absolutely positive of their diagnosis even if they were confident before the tests.

This is a very large part of the increase in health care costs. It is not a direct result (as in law suit settlement, or legal defense costs) but an indirect defensive cost, as the doctors fear not covering every single base.

[Poor Richard Lex]

37. thanks for the info

it makes sense, in a twisted sort of way. You are grouped with people who signed up at the same time, and the longer you remain on that policy the more your rates are going to go up as the group makes increased numbers of claims. So the amount it costs to "renew" may be more than what it would cost for a brand new policy.

Of course the insurance companies won't tell you that.

[Yavin4]

38. It Went Up Because There Are More Uninsured

There are less people paying for health insurance today, so that drop has to be made up from the people who do pay. I had a thread on this topic earlier this week.