Watch out for overly religious doctors

[Getchasome]

I posted this as a reply to another post, but I had to share it with everyone.

I went to see a Nephrologist for a kidney condition and he looked at my blood test results, gave me a routine exam, asked me some questions and said I needed a biopsy. Now, the condition I have happens to run in the family and it's never turned into anything serious for anyone, and not one family member had a biopsy done. Turns out there is a 1 in 1,000 chance of losing the kidney in a biopsy, which I didn't find out about until later. Not good odds. Here's the part that made me run, not walk, out of the doctors office. I started asking detailed medical questions about the kidneys and the doctor skipped around the answers and finally let me know that he was a Christian and God would take care of all things, and went into a diatribe of dribble on Jesus.

The next nephrologist I went too looked at my blood work and said "there is no reason at all to have a biopsy, it's completely unnecessary." He was able to read the family history, my condition, the blood results and deduce what the situation most likely is. In other words he used the scientific method, and avoided a risky, unnecessary procedure.

Moral of the story, steer clear of overly religious doctors. Could you imagine having the first doctor cutting on you? If he screwed up he would just pray about it. A lot of damn good that would do me.

[bryant69]

1. Good advice

We should probably forbid "overly" religious people from practicing medicine. And of course they should be excluded from teaching, do we really want "overly" religious people teaching our kids? And do you want an "overly" lawyer who is looking up the bible rather than a law book? We already know that "overly" religious people shouldn't run fast food restaurants (like Chik-Fil-A). As a matter of fact its hard figuring out what exactly we can allow "overly" religious people to do.

Or to put it another way, I'm sorry you had an idiot doctor, but it possible he'd be an idiot if he wasn't "overly" religious.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Razorback_Democrat]

6. Maybe just overly religious people who want to push it on others

I don't consider myself overly religious, but I'm not sure what overly religious means. I attend Church a couple of times a month or more. (a very liberal denomination, Episcopal) I pray, I meditate, I read spiritually uplifting literature, and I do believe that a higher being helps me in my work. However, I don't preach to people, and I don't push my views on others. Of course, my views are shaped by my beliefs.

[Getchasome]

11. Your last remark says it all. "Of corse, my

views are shaped by my beliefs." When I go to a doctor I don't want his religious beliefs to shape his beliefs. I want him to discard religion and trust 100% in science and ONLY science.

[bryant69]

18. The problem is

drawing a straight line between his desire to do a biopsy and his religion. Did he pull out the bible and say "It says here in Jeremiah, thou shalt preform as many biopsys as possible, even if they aren't needed?" Or did he make a stupid decicion based on his understanding of medical procedure (flaws understanding apparently) and then make stupid comments based on his religious belifs.

[Unstuck In Time]

21. From the OP:

"... I started asking detailed medical questions about the kidneys and the doctor skipped around the answers and finally let me know that he was a Christian and God would take care of all things."

[Razorback_Democrat]

28. Well the problem is that science in medicine isn't advanced far enough

to have all the answers.

I work with physicians, and sometimes they just don't know what the heck is wrong with someone and they just try different things until something works.

I wouldn't want someone saying that all I needed was something like prayer in my life. I want to take advantage of what medicine does have to offer.

Did you know that most of the people who go to see their family physician start feeling better as soon as they are in the office?

The science of behavioral medicine is really quite fascinating, especially when you consider that the brain is part of the body and when the brain isn't functioning optimally, our body can suffer.

Think of stress related illnesses. One of the remedies for stress that is part of the cutting edge of "science" is meditation.

Larry Dossey has done some very scientific work on the power of prayer in helping people get better even when they don't know they are being prayed for.

Now I guess my point originally was that science and medicine are not always the same thing, although you won't get many physicians to admit that.

Glad you didn't have to suffer at the expense of an incompetent physician any longer than you had to.

And reporting him wouldn't be the wrong thing to do.

[Dorian Gray]

36. That's fine...

But his decision to do a biopsy was not a direct result of his religion. Rather, it was a direct result of his idiocy.

I know a doctor personally who is very religous. He attends my church, he is a good man, and he attends mass every morning. He specializes in cancer. He's treated my grandmother and two of my aunts, as well as numerous people in our community.

And he's given up his practice and focuses now on a Health Care service for the uninsured in my home county. His religion made him make personal life choices, but it doesn't affect how he does his job. He was known as the best "cancer doctor" in our community in New Jersey.

So, religion doesn't always preclude good work. Of course, this Doctor didn't talk religion with his patients and say that any mistake he made would be left in God's hands. That's more idiocy than religiosity!

[madinmaryland]

12. What's the deal with Chik-fil-a?

I've eaten there a couple of times, didn't know that. Any more info on that?

[bryant69]

17. They are run by religious people

Which is why they won't open on Sundays--and they may or may not have donated money to right wing causes. But they are definately Christian.

[enki23]

13. which came first, the fundie or the fool?

whether the hyper-religiosity causes idiocy, or idiocy causes hyper-religiosity is pretty much a chicken and egg problem. i would guess, however, that since the set of hyper-religious peope is almost completely subsumed by the larger category of "idiots" i would argue that it is more likely that idiocy is the cause of extreme religiosity, in general, rather than the reverse.

[Unstuck In Time]

20. "Overly." As in "excessively" or "to an unreasonable degree"

The OP qualified the statement, making it clear that it was not targeted at all religious people.

Are even religious fanatics to be immune to criticism now?

[bryant69]

23. Nobody is immune to criticism

But one man's "overly" is another man's "normal." There are plenty who would argue that any religious feeling is "overly" religious--certainly if you are an atheist, how can you respect someone who believes in "Santa Claus in the Sky?" Some can, and some clearly can't.

[Unstuck In Time]

25. The meaning was quite clear.

I think, once again, you're looking for an opportunity to take offense where none was intended, while insisting that particular words have no accepted meaning when in fact there is considerable consensus.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2762047#2762057

[bryant69]

26. Yeah that's me

Just refusing to go along with everybody else. IF only I could just be a carbon copy of everybody else.

[Unstuck In Time]

27. Poor, poor persecuted you.

Language without consensus on meaning is not a language. The result is nothing more than endless quibbling over the intent of words. As I'm sure you well know.

[bryant69]

31. Thank you for the sympathy

It does make it easier to bear up under.

[Unstuck In Time]

32. Up, under. Inside-out, upside-down.

Good luck with that.

[ooglymoogly]

2. be rude kick him in the butt and walk out and move on

just kidding but doo walk out.

[Fridays Child]

3. Report him to the Medical Board in your state.

The guy needs a file started on him.

[sariku]

4. Did you have the biopsy done?

Doctors have to have signed consent for procedures, and the consent has to outline the risks.

Although the signed consent should cover the risks, the risks should be discussed up front between doctor and patient, before the decision is made to go ahead with the procedure. If a doctor is not doing this, run run away.

[Getchasome]

7. No, I never had it done

The second doctor informed me of the risks involved, and determined it wasn't necessary in the first place, given my condition.

[judge_smales]

5. Fortunately there aren't very many.

Medicine doesn't seem to attract the kind of person who would tend towards religiosity to begin with. Which is good.

[enki23]

15. actually, there are a fair number of them

medicine (like pretty much everything else) is advanced by science, but not everyone who practices medicine is well versed in scientific thinking.

[Getchasome]

16. Well, that's a comforting thought.

[Individualist]

34. You're mistaken

There's even an organization for them - www.cmdahome.org/index.cgi?BISKIT=1759618261&CONTEXT=cat&cat=100032

I knew about the organization because their headquarters is only about 25 miles from where I live. :puke:

[Skidmore]

8. Interview your doctor as you would any employee your are

going to hire.

[elehhhhna]

9. Jeus must've told Doc # 1 that another boat payment was comin' due.

[MatrixEscape]

10. If a person is not

professional enough to draw a clear line between their personal beliefs/faith and science, then they don't belong in medicine, IMHO.

One of the criteria of professionalism, to me, is the skill in drawing clear lines, personality-wise, and otherwise. While I don't believe in the myth of total objectivity, the sciences do require an observance of it.

Faith healing is another realm and you can get that at your local revival or choose a specific brand of "natural" healers rather than a medical doctor, if you so choose.

[Walt Starr]

14. When it comes to physicians, I prefer atheists

I'd rather have a doc who is convinced it's up to him and him alone. He'd actually be more analytical and accept the repsonsibility for his actions.

[patcox2]

19. My guess is he just wanted to make the money.

Just wanted to make some extra money by performing the procedure, then used his christianity as an attempt to allay your concerns. Some doctors, old school mostly, seem to think that they have the right to make the decision for the patient over things like that. Its a common paternalistic doctor attitude, don't worry your little head about that risk. His mentioning that its all in god's hands sounds more like a little bit of philosophic fatalism than proselytizing. Whether cloaked in christian garb or any other, doctors are all pretty much fatalistic, they deal all day with disease and death and dying, and they have to have a defense mechanism to cope, a beleif in fate or whatever, like I said, it can be cloaked in many different garbs (my favorite is Ecclesiastes, but theres a big tradition of fatalism in far eastern religions too).

In other words, I don't think his religion had anything to do with his medical decision, it was just something he thought would make you comfortable with his opinion that you should have the biopsy done.

[murielm99]

22. I agree, patcox.

He was probably trying to be reassuring.

It is best to get a second opinion, anyway. Especially if something makes you feel uncomfortable, get a second opinion.

My husband and I went to a doctor some years ago who was very religious. He was Catholic. He had a prayer in his office about making him an acceptable doctor in God's eyes, and making him sensitive to his patients' fear and pain. I was touched by the prayer.

When my husband had his vasectomy, this doctor's partner did the procedure. I respected that that was probably because they guy had religious disagreements with vasectomies. However, he did not try to discourage the operation, or tell us to go elsewhere. He simply turned it over to his partner.

I found him to be very professional, and a very good doctor.

[ArkDem]

24. Please define overly as opposed to just religious.

[Razorback_Democrat]

29. Good point!

a fellow Arkansan?

[Unstuck In Time]

30. *sigh*

The dictionary is your friend.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

35. Overly=REPLACING the medical treatment most supported by clinical evidence

of best possibles outcomes with "trust in Jesus".

Just religious = equals COMBINING humanity and compassion with the treatments most supported by clinical evidence of best outcomes.

MKJ

[Ladyhawk]

33. A local doctor I went to said he believed in creationism.

I haven't been back. :scared: