LePore ups the ante: $3,000, no, $4,000, no, $7,000 for election records

[BevHarris]

Though she has yet to present us with a bill, Theresa LePore has been upping the ante every time she talks to the media. It will be at least $3,000, she told the Orlando Sentinel.

That is ... $4,000, she told the Palm Beach NBC affiliate.

Now the $4,000 is for "research" and the $3,000 is for "copies."

Lessee now...at $20 per hour for "research," that is 500 hours to retrieve the same records request that most counties are charging $20 for.

"How much will it be?" Andy Stephenson asked another Florida county, up in the north panhandle.

"Oh, that'll be about a dollah," the supervisor said.

My my my. LePore's records must be gold-plated. We are supposed to get the official bill tomorrow.

Snohomish County wants about $2,500 for their records.

We also did statewide FOIA requests in all 50 states. Texas gave the records to us for free. Colorado charged $1,900 for 3,500 pages of documents. Michigan wants $125,000 just to look for the records. (All got the exact same request.)

This is what democracy looks like?

Bev Harris
Executive Director
Black Box Voting
http://www.blackboxvoting.org

[George_S]

1. Oh, man.

What a mess. We need some standards on this.

[Tace]

2. Bev, Thanks For Helping To Show The World What US Democracy Looks Like

Cheers

[Timebound]

3. Bev, you're GREAT!

Keep working hard! :) You are a true American Hero!! :)

[Pale_Rider]

4. Not democracy ...

... but cover-up. In California, the Brown Act specifies that only the reasonable cost of making copies can be charged. Labor on producing the information can not be charged. So much for Florida's Sunshine laws.

[Ducks In A Row]

5. LePore should be arrested for exhortion

keep up the great work. You sound awesome on Mike Webb's show right now

[BevHarris]

6. Thanks, that was pretaped -- can you hear the trucks going by?

We pulled off the Florida Turnpike to do the interview on cell phone. I was on Mike Webb while Kathleen was on a phone interview with a station in Kalamazoo Michigan.

Hey, DUers, Andy saw an 8-foot alligator here.

Votergate? or Gatorvote?

Bev

[Carolab]

9. Hi, Bev

You rule.

What is up with MSNBC, anyway? Talk about "mexed missages". Or is that subject taboo?

[BevHarris]

13. Nah. Olbermann admitted that his staff never talked to me.

But chided me for being "belligerent" in my efforts to protect my good name.

On to more important things. Got interviews in Palm Beach County tonight that made me cringe, and made me glad that we gave Theresa LePore a lawsuit in front of her peers. Based on the evidence we got tonight, her behavior has been inexcusable and she should be held ACCOUNTABLE.

Bev

[demobabe]

20. He said his staff...

...left voicemail messages for you since November 8 and you didn't respond back until today. He did indeed say you were "belligerant"... and "threatening and demanding," and that you threatened his staff.

Is this true?

[leftchick]

37. that is not what this thread is about....

if you want to waste time on such an insignificant issue there are many threads in the election forum you could join in.

[Ducks In A Row]

22. Maybe the "chiding" to save his public face. It's too bad on his part

he should be honest.

Hold lapore's feet to the fire!! :)

[Ducks In A Row]

21. I heard something in the background. And I think Gatorvote!

You are awesome! And so is Andy and the rest.

[Lil]

7. Mike Web interview: "(some) county with 1/3 votes missing" - did I hear?

Hi Bev, I know this thread is about La Pore, but did I hear correctly that one county "in FL" is missing 1/3 votes and may need to revote?

I knew about NC and probably didn't hear you correctly - just checking if there was another one in such bad shape.

Thanks for all your work.

[BevHarris]

8. Volusia.

Missing critical evidence for 1/3 of its precincts. We've gotten a fair ways on figuring out what may have happened, piecing together interviews with poll workers and so forth. It is consistent with fraud, but is not likely to be something done anywhere else in Florida.

Even Diebold asked Volusia County what the hell they were doing (in a memo that we have obtained).

Bev

[Lil]

12. OMG! That is unreal. I will pass this to some FL resarchers.

I am in Australia and witnessed their election with paper/pencil/cardboard booths: cheap, fast, fraud free

edit: also non partisan elections officials all around

[SomthingsGotaGive]

18. Hey Bev

He (Mike Webb) asked you point blank.

"Do you Smell fraud in FL, OH, Washington or Any of the states?"

Your answer

"Well there are certainly indications that are consistent with it to varying degrees>"


But But I thought you said it was OK to say the " F " word.


Reminds me of...

Weapons of Mass Destruction.......
..
..
..
..program related activities



edit:

Jesse Jackson isn't afraid to say Fraud...He's Black....He knows where to look !!

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fud]

36. Oh and my earlier promise

If Bev breaks something open on her own to avert the smug chimp from being sworn in, then i will donate $500 to DU. I really can't afford it but i do have several credit cards and would gladly get in more debt if she actually does it. The operative word is she.

So does anyone else want to make a similar pledge? Instead of just "You rock bev" "you are a goddess bev" "you are the light of my life bev" "you give me a reason for living bev".

People that know me on bartcop know i am true to my word. So are there any other takers? Besides don't you think DU deserves support for putting up with this circus?

Like they say put up or...yah know the rest.

Or you can pledge a donation the other way that if bev doesn't do shit and fucks it up and knew you were right all along you will give what you can afford to DU. After all this community deserves support.

Aloha

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fud]

41. Yes but it's a win win situation for DU

Ok say 80% here are on the bevborg induced drug, then they should be happy to place a pledge. Since having so much faith in a bullshit artiste no?

Say the other 20%....these are rough estimates of course that think she is just a con artist are proved right and vindicated. Then they all can say see thats what we have been telling you for years. So you see the ones that think Bev is full of shit won't lose any money at all. The ones that worship at her alter will have to donate here. Of course if borg does actually accomplish getting smirk out of office why not pay?

And bev don't even think of sueing DU i'm with an allie of this forum that has a few lawyers that will do stuff for free. You know why? Because they can't stand you at all. You try to file a lawsuit over a few words that you think belongs to you then you will have a storm on you like flies on dogshit.

One of my favorite blogger friends is a copyright lawyer and could tear you a new one without even blinking. He makes a good living at it too. You will have to make all your 501c money public.

on edit...That 80% that worship the goddess. If you win that will help defray all the bandwidth costs this self serving clown has cost here.
blackbocksvotingboks © ®

[Fud]

48. No takers so far as i can see

Why not? Do you not have faith in the allmighty goddess?

Doesn't look that way so far with all the hoardes of fans.

[SharonAnn]

66. Gosh, I just love the "Ignore" feature.

[demobabe]

10. Do ya think it's payback?

For publicly humiliating Theresa LePore in front of all her colleagues at her retirement party?

This is exactly the kind of thing I posted about in other threads and why storming that meeting wasn't such a great idea. The South is this way; you try to pull something in their territory, they'll pay you back 100 times over.

Yes, this is indeed what democracy looks like in the South.

[BevHarris]

14. If that's true, what up with Michigan? n/t

.

[Protect The Vote]

16. I'm from Michigan...

so I'll bite. What is up with Michigan?

PTV

[signmike]

31. opening post = Michigan wants $125,000 ...

"Michigan wants $125,000 just to look for the records."

[Protect The Vote]

33. Thank you, signmike

I missed that blurb in the original post. I need some sleep. :silly:

[alfredo]

68. I lived in Michigan long enough to know that there are lot of

displace southerners there. Pontiac Michigan was like living in Tennessee without the great BBQ.

[demobabe]

17. Real good question about Michigan...

But I'm just warning about the South from personal observation.

[Carolab]

19. Michigan MAFIA

That's what's up. That state is FULL of corruption. No doubt some real shenanigans there. So they want to keep you out.

[Protect The Vote]

24. Corruption in Michigan?

Are you speaking of election fraud? I know when I voted, things seemed okay. Kerry won in MI. Election fraud would mean Bush won? I'm confused.:shrug:

[vanboggie]

30. Kerry won, but

not by the margin you would expect from Michigan. SOS was also co-chair of Bush Campaign.

[Protect The Vote]

34. I was worried about voter suppression

in Detroit metro area. Everything went okay in my county (we went 70% for Kerry), although there was one election challenger slowing things down a bit. I have a friend who voted in Wayne county. She said she didn't see any signs of voter suppression, but one isolated report doesn't convince me.

I also think that the gay marriage ban proposal drove more right-wingers to the polls. A tricky little ploy by the right.

[BevHarris]

42. Aha! That would explain why Michigan doesn't like public records

Election fraud often begins with the county commissioner or county supervisor positions, where land use and construction decisions are made. Very interesting observation.

Bev

[Ducks In A Row]

23. I thought payback too.

[Kelvin Mace]

64. This is why the tactic was ill-advised

Now the matter will be drug out. A price tag has been established, with a hefty premium for the grandstand play. Bev can pay or contest it in court, which means more delays.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[foreigncorrespondent]

11. Bev...

...I just wanna say you guys are doing a remarkable job. I do see the nay sayers talking shit to you in threads, and I just sit here shaking my head.

Keep up the good work guys! Hard work always pays off in the end. :)

[demobabe]

15. Oh, and BTW

I'm not saying this stuff to rain on anyone's parade. This stuff is really serious business and needs to be treated as such.

I've personally witnessed a Southern judge slapping an $8,000 bond on someone for an offense that should have only carried a $500 bond maximum.

Why did the judge do this? The person was characterized by the opposing lawyer as being a liberal from California, and the Christian Coalition-backed judge did everything in her power to screw him to the wall. The Civil Appeals Court upheld the bond amount.

They protect their own down there.

[tkmorris]

29. Just as an aside

Palm Beach County Florida aint "The South". There is enough corruption here to float a battleship on but it isn't the same sort that you'd find in say, Gainesville or Montgomery Alabama. The corruption here is more reminiscent of a Chicago or New York. Maybe Detroit.

Theresa LePore is just a vindictive bitch with dreams of power who sadly keeps picking the side that won last year instead of the one that's on the rise. She believes that blind loyalty will win her a place in the Republican party, which it likely will, but in the end it will be hollow as they are swept aside here and she has NO ability to rise even to the state level as a minor functionary. This state will have a Dem governor in 2006 and Palm Beach County will be so blue Ms LePore will be reduced to the role of bitter outsider. Bank it.

[propagandafreegal]

25. Bev you are great. Don't let the haters get you down! Thanks for keeping

us in the loop!

[ProudToBeLiberal]

26. I thought you were going to sue DU and Skinner...

:eyes:

[ProudToBeLiberal]

27. it's common knowledge and before you ask for proof...here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x26013

1st post from skinner's own mouth.

[JohnnyCougar]

35. It's also common knowledge that she doesn't get along well with others

The lawsuit threats should come as no surprise. Nor does the spat with Olbermann. Nor does the "split" with David Allen.

I wonder if she's going to threaten to sue Olbermann.

Bev's ego seems to always be her number one priority. If she could learn to cope with others, things would run much more smoothly.

[Kelvin Mace]

65. According to her "spokesman"

I wonder if she's going to threaten to sue Olbermann.

he already has.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x105705#106078

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[JohnOneillsMemory]

28. $7000? Hmm. Freedom is not free, they say. Ya get what ya pays fer.

I went to a DFA (Dean's new party) meetup last night and almost noone there realized what was happening with the fraud investigations.

They were talking about having lost the election and re-examining their values. Even our rep. Lyn Woolsey who was there for a q&a. SHEESH!

I told'em "Hey! We won the last 4 presidential elections! Quit crying and believing in those propaganda red-state-blue-state maps!

[leftchick]

38. I wonder if LePore is taking kick-backs?

Thanks for the update Bev! I can't wait to see LePore frog marched!

[tsuki]

40. It is a favorite tatic of Florida officials. The cost is $.15 per page or

"actual" cost of reproduction. To get the travel vouchers for the Walton County School Board once cost us over $300.00. They did not want to give them up because the school board was charging the county outrageous amounts.

[BevHarris]

43. Indian River, Florida wants $100 per hour for their time

If they prevail, my next public records request for them will be to show me evidence that the regular salary of their staff is $100 per hour.

Bev

[s-cubed]

44. Bev, I appreciate everything you are doing,

and a I challenge any of your detractors to go and do the work you are doing.
:grouphug: from most DUers.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tsuki]

46. Been there, done that. They just add the cost of the CFO to the bill.

[symbolman]

49. Bev - A few honest questions here.

Straight up.

Have you learned anything from these experiences? Do you believe that you made a mistake crashing that LePore event? Would you do it over or not at all knowing what you know now?

Did you apologise to all the people you've threatened to sue, admit that you maybe have an anger management problem - you feel it's passion, but maybe it's something else?

Seriously, you have to come to grips with the fact that you roll right over people, or threaten them (people trying to help you) and cast away some folks who have spent hard earned money to assist in a dream that most probably won't come to any fruition, at least with this election.

I mean, when we invited you to join our film, did you already know you'd decided to go with someone else (the first Votergate I guess, I still don't get that there are two of them with virtually the same footage)? Because it really pissed all four of us off (my wife and I and the two film crew people we sent - costing us over $1000 dollars in airfare and motels) to come all the way from Seattle from SoCal with the invitation made by you to interview.

Our very honest film crew said that you spent 4 hours lunching with them but refused to be interviewed - the camera never came out of the bag, and not by Our choice.

We trusted you, we believed in you - if you had another offer for a film crew (votergate #1 or votergate #2) don't you think you should have told us?

My wife was then/is pregnant and we don't have much money left and that thousand bucks was very precious to us - not to mention when you told us not long after that you needed about $60 thousand so you could do a Michael Moore thing, riding around in a truck with Andy - it appeared then that you were cutting us out of a film scene, and we STILL made the offer to talk to our "angel" and see about getting you the money, hoping you'd get SOMETHING - and we had the money lined up (this guy spent $300,000 on running our ARMY OF ONE ad in New Hampshire) - my wife told you to call us back at the end of the week, but you didn't.. we had the money lined up, and we used up some of our political capital with this guy we could have used for ourselves..

Don't you think you should make restitution for some of your overzealous attacks and shunting out those that helped you?

THAT is what the cleanup crew of your soul should be doing - making things right so you can build up your reputation again.

Even the people pissed at you know that you've been PASSIONATE and have DOGGED the info until you can get at the root of the truth.

I would advise you to make restitution and apologies, and simply ask for advice now and then.

You might get people back to your side and become a force for the future. But the way it looks now, you may PR yourself into oblivion, or surround yourself with "yesmen" or "yeswomen" and never get the real picture.

Just being gut honest and hoping you may find a way to reinstill the trust people had for you so you can get their full support and help blaze a trail that changes history and voting for the better, something all of us are trying to do..

Believe me, you'd feel a lot better for it in the end, and so would some other folks.

The trouble with truth is that it always comes out, the Masai Tribe have a saying, "The Truth can never be hidden.."

And when you have an archival system like they do here at the DU there is no getting around what you say - everyone can trash anyone with a minimal amount of information from previous quotes - like Clinton, look at that..

Confession is good for the soul, and restitution makes for honor that can't be denied.

I'm worried about you, I don't trust you right now - but you are under more pressure than any normal person can stand. You need people that tell you the truth to your face, not those that faun all over every move - tho they are sincere, they do you no favors.

That's why our rich "angel" likes us, only your pals will tell you when you have egg on your face, those are the people you can trust.

Think about it, take a little time out by yourself and do an inventory - those inventories that the AA tell people to make aren't that out of line, even if someone doesn't have a drinking problem - it's still just as valid to re-examine your parameters now and then, get back to moral basics and start over, doing it right.

How about starting with us and the interview you blew off? We'd be glad to supply receipts for reimbursement - maybe then people could see that you've reedeemed yourself and are back on the path to the Bev we all once repected and trusted.

We'd be the first to let people know you did the right thing.

Just think about it. We're selling a movie too, and there are more than one blender or hat in the world - plenty of room for everyone.

You can PM me if you want, that's fine too.

These are tough times for us all, and Bush is the common criminal making everyone nuts and spoiling for a fight - he stole our hope, among other things, and hope is a very valuable commodity.

There's an old saying, "Hope is the poor man's bread." Let's give some back to your old fans. Hope that you will in the end do the right thing, and so will we.

symbolman

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BevHarris]

51. I guess this will have to go in PMs

I have no idea about most of what you are talking about -- what film crew? What four hour lunch? But the purpose of this thread is records, not personality debates. E-mail me privately, I guess.

Bev

[Snivi Yllom]

56. best post I have read since joining...period

this demands a public reponse

[BevHarris]

58. Answers to the on-topic portions of above

Do you believe that you made a mistake crashing that LePore event? Would you do it over or not at all knowing what you know now?

We'd do it again. The supervisors were stonewalling us, and though they hate what we did, the lawyers are telling them to COUGH UP THE RECORDS! We're picking up a bunch more today. This is not a popularity contest, it's an investigation, and time is of the essence.

I really have no idea what "four hour lunch" was had, and I have no arrangement or exclusivity with Votergate, or any filmmaker. Those filmmakers are the only ones that actually seem to be going out into the field to get stories, though.

If you are talking about a dinner at Salty's, as I recall, I paid for it myself, treating you to a nice dinner, and your schedule was not even in the same states as ours, nor did a film crew accompany us on our tour. I never was clear what the purpose of that meeting was at all. I didn't feel that "click" with you, though you guys are very nice. When you have filmmakers following you around, there has to also be a level of compatibility on a personality level, and the Votergate guys are very funny, and completely comfortable to be with. Maybe a little more establishment than you are.

Also, your work seemed partisan, whereas ours is more nonpartisan. The King County investigations we have done, for example, target a highly democratic county.

I don't mind doing something with you. Let me know.

Bev

[Jersey Devil]

47. So, are you going to show KO some evidence (tapes) or not?

How about swallowing your pride and winning one for the cause by showing just a wee bit of your evidence of vote fraud on TV? You wouldn't have to compromise anything, just a few shots of machine tapes with different totals and the precincts and numbers blurred out.

[Jersey Devil]

52. kick for an answer since I know you are online right now

and just made a post.

None of these questions will cease until there is a reasonable explanation.

[BevHarris]

55. Again, this is not the topic of this thread, but I did offer that

to Olbermann's producers, and they said they were not interested in the poll tapes, only the videotapes, and I offered to hand the phone over to a Votergate.tv producer but they declined that. (???)

So, he called the producer back; she wasn't answering her phone, he left a message telling her he'd be happy to work with her on the videotapes. He hasn't gotten a call back, to the best of my knowledge.

1. Videotapes from Volusia - belong to Votergate.tv, and MSNBC never asked Votergate for them, declined to talk to votergate producers, and after Votergate producers offered the film, so far, MSNBC has never followed up on that.

2. Poll tapes from Volusia - they are being used in a court case, hearing is today. I showed them to CNN on the 23rd of November. MSNBC has never asked for them, and when I offered them to MSNBC the producers said they aren't interested in the poll tapes, only the videotapes.

3. Videotapes of the LePore event - we gave those to NBC as soon as they asked, less than 24 hours after the event. The videotape has already been aired on two NBC affiliates; that was done before Olbermann wrote his piece. Olbermann's producers may very well have caused this problem, because they never spoke to me about anything after November 8, and all the Florida stuff happened after November 12; Olbermann seemed to think they had spoken to me, and wrote that I had declined to be interviewed and declined to provide the tapes, when in fact, no one from his staff ever spoke to me at all about that. Now they say they left messages -- most of you who have tried to call me know that for a while there, my voicemail was filling up right away. There are three phone numbers on our web site; neither Andy nor Kathleen, the other phone numbers, got any messages from MSNBC, and I did not get them either. Either way, leaving messages would not suffice. You cannot say someone "declined" or "refused" if you never spoke with them.

I called George Bush at the White House and left a message asking him for a map of WMD.. I cannot then say "George Bush has repeatedly declined to give me the map." I can only say "George Bush did not return my message."

Ok. Again, not the topic of this thread, but that's an update. I'm off to pick up some more records now.

Bev

Bev

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jersey Devil]

54. Gee, and you wasted all 6 posts here

How will you ever make up for all the lost time?

[DTinAZ]

57. wrong forum?

Your topics should really be over in "2004 Election Results and Discussion" and not here in "General Discussion" IIUC (I'm a newbie, but I *might* just be correct).

And why in the world don't you ever post anything in your own discussion forum over on your website??????

[BevHarris]

59. That is answered elsewhere, the first place you posted it. n/t

.

[murray hill farm]

60. Why does it cost anything..anywhere!

That it costs at all is disgusting!! Should be public record..and at no cost. It is not like we are asking for copies of someones criminal record or tax record, etc. We are asking for records of votes..does the FBI pay for records of cooperations that are even suspected of fraud...no! This really is digesting! Are not these employees already paid by the hour by tax dollars? Are not the copy machines already paid for by tax dollars? Do not the tax payers have the right to these records...especially these records?

[claudiajean]

69. There is a reason that it costs money for public records...

Modest, reasonable sums that have no padding and just reflect copying costs are perfectly understandable from public agencies.

The information IS public, but the cost of copies for personal use by members of the public should be borne by the requesting person who gets the paper copy to be taken away and used by them and has no requirement to share their copy with any other member of the public.

Now, I'm talking about a charge of 5 or 7 cents a page here, NOT exorbitant bills for "research time" etc. What "Butterfly" LePore is doing to try to block Bev's research is not reasonable.

Why? Because, without a small, reasonable fee for personal copies of public data, people without the good intentions of Bev Harris, or any other activists working on a legitimate issue, could really bung up the workings of important public agencies by making enormous, complicated data requests for no purpose other than costing those agencies millions of our tax dollars.

Can't you just see some Freeper asking for millions of pages of copies of data from environmental agencies just to insure that they could not complete the work of their office within their budget?

A modest, per page copying charge prevents monkey wrenching by people up to no good.

Plus, isn't it reasonable to pay for a copy of data for your own personal use? the data may be public, but the paper and toner in your hand are yours to keep, and no longer belong to the government.

[DTinAZ]

62. nitpick...I actually posted it here first

posted here: Fri Dec-03-04 07:51 AM
posted there: Fri Dec-03-04 07:55 AM

wasn't sure if you were still active in this thread, which is why I posted a similar message in the other one

To anyone else who feels compelled to comment..it was a suggestion meant to be helpful...to get this important information to the place where most of the folks interested in this topic are active.

[BeHereNow]

67. Okay- I believe you.

But understand this about DU:
We are all concerned about a MULTITUDE of
topics. This forum is sort of the "catch all" topic bin.
By Bev posting it here, EVERYONE can be updated
on this situation, along with all the other ones.
The list is endless, isn't it?
Consider this forum the "multi-tasking room."
You are likely to see ALL sorts of threads that
COULD be posted elsewhere, but if you try to
point out everyone of them you will be exhausted.
So sit back, relax and enjoy.
We have EXCELLENT moderators on DU and if something
needs to be moved, TRUST me, they will catch it.
BHN

[Stephanie]

61. Why would you take on the thread nanny job already?

That is an awesome responsiblity for one who is, as you say, a "newbie". You might want to get the hang of things first.

[DTinAZ]

63. sure, whatever...

...was only trying to be helpful (other than just the $$ I've already donated, so I *did* put my money where my mouth is, BTW). I'll take your suggestion, however, and crawl back into the woodwork now. ;-)