Please help me counter this

[Sweet Freedom]

I received the e-mail below from my younger half-brother who spent a year fighting in Iraq. (We didn't grow up together and obviously, he doesn't realize I'm a liberal) I want to e-mail him back and tell him not to send me this stuff, but I also want to address some of these issues (he's pretty young and green). I want to be matter-of-fact and concise in my response, but I'm angry about this message, as well as broken-hearted that it came to me from a member of my family. I must admit, my anger is clouding my rational thought and I'm having a hard time composing a sane and thoughtful response.

(I know many of you will recommend that I just ignore this and him, but I know that won't work. I've learned from experience that my silence about these messages equals consent, and serves as an invitation to send me even nastier, hateful "jokes" and opinions. Maybe I'm a big wimp, but receiving unsolicited hatred in my mailbox from people I care about causes me much stress and sadness. But if I fight back and stand my ground, I know I'll feel better -- as opposed to the doormat-for-hatriotism feeling I have now.)

I have often bookmarked DU threads that debunk these types of messages and have always found someone's opinion here to be dead-on. I would appreciate any help.

Here is what he sent to me.
---------------------------

For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day My Lai massacre.

I heard some Arabs are asking for an apology. I humbly offer mine here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).

I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.

I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Arabs.

I am sorry that Arabs have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.

I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools.

I am sorry that Yassir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and hijacked the Palestinian "cause."

I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.

I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA.

I am sorry that our own left wing elite and our media can't understand any of this.

I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.

I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.

I am sorry that those same bombers are seeking 72 virgins. I can't seem to find one here on Earth.

I am sorry that the homicide bombers think babies are a legitimate target.

I am sorry that our troops died to free more Arabs.

I am sorry they show so much restraint when their brothers in arms are killed. I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.

I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.

I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen "Daisy Cutters" on Fallujah. (Note: a "Daisy Cutter" is a 10,000 lb bomb, used to clear helicopter landing zones)

I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site".

I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.

I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, etc.

I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.

I am sorry the French are french?

America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for all the world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.

Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated? Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujans.

If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait. You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins.


:mad: :cry:

[RUDUing2]

1. simple reply

You need to add

I am sorry that we incorrectly invaded Iraq when the 9/11 terrorist were Saudi's and Syrians.

[da_chimperor]

3. Don't forget

I am sorry that arrogant American foreign policy has made us reviled around the world, and has helped the cause of terrorists.

[ET Awful]

2. I'm sorry the idiot doesn't know the difference between an Arab,

an Afghan, a Persian, and any number of other ethnic groups I may have forgotten.

I'm sorry the ignorant bastard decided to waste your time with his blather.

I'm sorry that the President he supports has ties going back decades with the very regimes he is attacking now.

I'm sorry that the Vice-President your buddy supports was once head of a company that made huge amounts of profits off the oil-for-food program he now denigrates.

I'm sorry that same V-P was head of the company while it illegally conducted business with state sponsors of terrorism.

I could go on.

[Sweet Freedom]

7. Yes, the "I'm sorry" theme is something I wanted to reply with

I'm also trying to come up with a response to the religious tones. The author has lumped all Muslims together and held them accountable for the actions of the fanatics. So now we should hate them all and torture them?!

Sorry, I just read it again and now I'm truly "pissappointed".

BTW: I've always admired the picture of your beautiful kitty.

[ET Awful]

10. Thanks! :)

For the comments on Quinn that is.

Simply explain to him that if he wants to hold all Muslims responsible for the actions of the minority, then it is quite alright for them to do the same toward Christians and Jews. For instance, you could cite Sabra and Shatila (orchestrated by Ariel Sharon btw), in which Christians (with permission and no hindrance from Sharon and his troops), engaged in a massacre of innocent Palestinians. You could use the example of the King David Hotel, in which Israeli terrorists bombed a hotel. You could even go back to the Crusades in which Christians from all over Europe tried to exterminate Muslims.

[Midlodemocrat]

4. I am sorry that my President's father

helped to provide the Weapons of Mass Destruction that Saddam used on his people.

I am sorry that we invaded your country and keep the killing going.

More later....

[Ready4Change]

5. We're supposed to be the good guys.

Since when do good guys commit torture?

Since when do good guys brush off torture?

Since when do good guys make excuses for torture?

[JimmyJazz]

6. I'm sorry that Halliburton is making money hand over fist

as a result of this illegal war, but it's costing the taxpayers billions.

[sam sarrha]

8. he is just passing on Crap other extremists sent him, i get this stuff from

my brother... usually propaganda flame stories.. i email him back with the debunking from www.Truthorfiction.com . he quit doing it.

These people are locked in am Apriori Loop. the same process that Limpbaugh uses to brainwash his listeners. Unfortunately what ever you say will go into the "Loop" and he will come up with the same conclusion. You cant win, it will not be productive to just piss him off.

You could just say that you have a different views on the subject and that you don't wish to discuss politics with him.

a Quote by the Dalai Lama, recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize.....

"A negative thought continues and increases exponentially until replaced by a Positive thought, However the positive thought must be cultivated."

The greatest Victory you can have is to give it to an opponent.
The Buddha was once insulted by a jealous monk.. he replied, 'If you give someone a gift and they don't accept it, who does the gift belong to...?' and the negative cycle just ends there.

The victory here is you remaining a civil Representative of our cause, there is no Greater Victory. Just delete it.

[Sweet Freedom]

9. Yes, I have another wingnut brother

who made my life hell for quite some time. Then I started "snoping" all his stupid e-mails and they stopped (which felt so good!) (My entire family is liberal, except for my wingnut brothers. I have no idea what happened to them.)

I will let my brother know that we have different views, but I am going to explain how I feel (I got to hear his side, now it's my turn!) I will delete any future e-mails, but I feel I should not only stand up for myself, but also give him the opportunity to respect my feelings. (I'm not holding my breath.)

[Make7]

11. 03/17/2003

From his speech right before the war:

"Many Iraqis can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast, and I have a message for them. If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you. As our coalition takes away their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free. In a free Iraq, there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms. The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near." - George W. Bush

I am sorry the president did not honor his word.

I am sorry that so many of you have been killed and injured in a war not directed at you.

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. This regime has already used weapons of mass destruction against Iraq's neighbors and against Iraq's people." - George W. Bush

I am sorry we didn't find weapons of mass destruction. The weapons we invaded your country to destroy.

I am sorry we started a war based on faulty intelligence.

I am sorry we supported Saddam when we knew he used chemical weapons on Iran in the 80's.

I am sorry we continued to support Saddam even after we knew he used chemical weapons on you, the people of Iraq.

I am sorry we pretend that we can now use his use of chemical weapons at that time to justify our present actions.

I am sorry for the harm our policies have caused you.

I am sorry.
____________________

If you reply, you should realize there is almost no chance of changing his point of view. His message didn't change yours, did it?

But if you want to discuss this with him - tell him that. Ask him to write, in his own words, what he thinks. Tell him you will gladly engage in a dialog but you will not read the things he forwards you. If he can't form an opinion of his own and/or he doesn't respect the fact that you have your own, it is simply not worth the effort.

Good luck,
Make7

[Sweet Freedom]

12. Thank you!

This is good. I will use this style -- and definitely the quote -- as direction for my reply.

Yeah, I know I won't change his mind...but after the election I promised myself that I would no longer be afraid to speak mine.

----------

I wish I could "reply to all" in this post so I could say thank you for everyone's input! I really appreciate it! :grouphug:

[Johonny]

13. Here you go

I heard some Arabs are asking for an apology. I humbly offer mine here:

I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.). Well ok clearly I’m not sorry. Lazy bastards just die already.

I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the republican extremists came after the last election. In fact they danced across the TV screen like wild Indians (a race we need to get back to work on destroying people!)

I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Arabs. Because I know a few republicans that would have loved to bomb a blue state.

I am sorry that Arabs have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. While the west random chooses which brutal regimes it will and won’t support while propping up western drawn boarders that bare no relation to actual ethnic heritage. I am sorry that our leaders squander our wealth.

I am sorry that our governments breed hate for the Arabs in our religious schools.

I am sorry that Yassir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and hijacked the Palestinian "cause." When clearly I wanted to hijack it first.

I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians. Well except that whole Israeli war in the 70’s but I mean you can't count war as trying to help can you.

I am sorry that the poor of the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of wealth stricken right elite while the insanely wealthy USA blames the Arabs.

I am sorry that our own left wing elite (both of them) and our media can't understand any of this. But then it is a raving drool of poopy.

I am sorry the Halliburton scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.

I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death. What fools we barely pay our troops a living wage and keep them lock into never ending contracts.

I am sorry that those same bombers are seeking 72 virgins. I can't seem to find one here on Earth, but then I live in a red state where we teach abstinence.

I am sorry that American bombers think babies are a legitimate target.

I am sorry that our troops died to free more Arabs. When clearly I want to in slave them and drink their oil rich land like a vampire (I.E. Anne Coulter).

I am sorry that American extremists have killed more Americans than any other group. (I.E more Americans died in Civil war than all the wars combined)

I am sorry that foreign trained invasion troops are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a colonial state.

I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen "Daisy Cutters" on Fallujah but only got to napalm them a bit.

I am sorry every time republicans lie they find a convenient "Holy Site".

I am sorry that the dead can’t come back to life so the terrorist could apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites. Our meaning those "Eecky Greek people" we were too scared of to go watch the Olympics in their country.

I am sorry I use the open word they without actually clearly defining they so that they can include just about anyone. In fact they could include myself. And I didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, etc.

I am sorry Michael Moore is American because Canada is way cool and I wish I was so Canadian right now; Oh he could feed a medium sized village in Africa while I can only hope Halliburton delivers that food they promise to keep me from staving.

I am sorry the French are French? But then by definition they’re French and I not about to go changing the rules of language right now.

America will get past this latest absurdity. Well may be not just yet as the past election shows but eventual when I’m working for slave wages, holding gun to protect a oil field, while being taxed at 40 % without health care, we will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for all the world to see and chose not to look ourselves. We move on, except when something bad happens then we move back and blame Clinton. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much, well that and our foreign policy of political assassination, propped up dictators, carpet bombing lack of charity and well man it gets to be a long list now that I think of it. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology. Hell we don’t hide it at all. We ignore it. See the difference.
P.S. God bless