Justice Scalia: Jews Are Safer With Christians In Charge

[ChicanoPwr]

Scalia To Synagogue - Jews Are Safer With Christians In Charge
by Thom Hartmann

Antonin Scalia, the man most likely to be our next Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, turned history on its head recently when he attended an Orthodox synagogue in New York and claimed that the Founders intended for their Christianity to play a part in government. Scalia then went so far as to suggest that the reason Hitler was able to initiate the Holocaust was because of German separation of church and state.

The Associated Press reported on November 23, 2004, "In the synagogue that is home to America's oldest Jewish congregation, he noted that in Europe, religion-neutral leaders almost never publicly use the word 'God.'"

"Did it turn out that," Scalia asked rhetorically, "by reason of the separation of church and state, the Jews were safer in Europe than they were in the United States of America?" He then answered himself, saying, "I don't think so."

Scalia has an extraordinary way of not letting facts confound his arguments, but this time he's gone completely over the top by suggesting that a separation of church and state facilitated the Holocaust. If his comments had gotten wider coverage (they were only noted in one small AP article, and one in the Jerusalem Post), they may have brought America's largest religious communities - both Christian and Jewish - into the streets.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1202-33.htm

People let the Fascism begin.

:puke:

[Sandpiper]

1. Actually Fat Tony the holocaust was the culmination

Of about 16 centuries of Christian anti-semitism in Europe.

[Dr.Phool]

10. I suggest Scalia read "Hitlers Pope"

As you said, Jews were persecuted and killed for centuries with xtians in charge.

[Cats Against Frist]

38. Yeah -- Jack Chick thinks the Catholic Church caused the holocaust.

[immoderate]

25. When I hear the term Judeo-Christian tradition...

the only one that comes to mind is the tradition of Christians killing Jews.

And, of course I mean no offense to those who are brought up in our current atmosphere of ecumenism, which is a recently adopted attitude, and practised by the enlightened Christians, such as DUers.

--IMM

[Reverend_Smitty]

2. Thats right Jews...

be thankful you are living in a Christian nation with strong Christian leaders to protect you, at least until the rapture when you can enter eternal hellfire like the rest of them :puke:

[genieroze]

21. They think the Jews are their ticket to heaven.

Reality check, Bush is their ticket to hell.

[K-W]

3. I need to get a passport.

This is insanely scary.

Doesnt anyone in this country know that Hitler did what he did by pusyhing an alternative and very radical interpretation of christianity?

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

4. Until Jesus comes back to wipe them out...

...with the fiery Sword of God!

[AG78]

5. Well only

the 1/3, or 100,000, or whatever the exact number is that will convert to Christianity when Jesus comes back. The remaining Jews are all going to hell with the rest of us.

[Sandpiper]

7. 144,000 I believe it is

12,000 from each tribe

[BattyDem]

6. Christianity and the Founding Fathers

Antonin Scalia ... claimed that the Founders intended for their Christianity to play a part in government.


I posted this in another thread a few weeks ago, but I have to say it again:


The RW always seems to overlook one simple fact ...
If the US was intended to be a Christian nation then why does the First Amendment directly contradict the First Commandment?

First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ... "

First Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."


Now ... if the Founding Fathers wanted a Christian nation, why would they have clearly stated in the very first amendment to the Constitution that the government would not impose any religion on people, nor would it prevent people from practicing their chosen religion. Shouldn't the amendment have said something like, "Congress hereby decrees that all people shall worship no other gods before the Christian God"



edited ... typo

[Why Syzygy]

8. sounds reasonable

have the scotus ever read the constitution do you think?
Are they sworn to uphold the CONSTITUTION or the Bible?

[ReadTomPaine]

36. That's a favorite question of mine for religious Americans...

"Which is more important to you as an American Citizen? The bible or the Constitution?" I am often surprised by the answers I receive. For such a simple question, it engenders quite a bit of thought from people who might otherwise just snap at you with talking points.

RTP

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

18. The righties would say we just go by the morals

We're definitely not a Christian nation, and your examples prove that. However, the Right still likes to say that even if we're not a Christian nation (which they often DO say that), we're still founded on "Judeo-Christian morals."

So, while we may never have Christianity as an official religion, they believe that all laws we pass must have those Judeo-Christian morals in mind as a basis.

[immoderate]

28. Exactly what are those Judeo-Christian morals...

that are so unique, and are ignored by every other civilization before and since.

OK, I'll settle for a "top 10" list.

--IMM

[oneighty]

48. Do not eat oysters

or pigs?

180

[immoderate]

50. That covers the Judeo, not the Christian part.

--IMM

[oneighty]

52. Coveting they neighbors oil

is OK as long as you really need it.

Thou shalt not steal it either unless you really need it.

180

[wakfs]

9. Sigh....

....groan.....weep.

[GOPFighter]

11. Shock and Awe!

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[genieroze]

23. More like

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:
:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:
:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[htuttle]

12. You know, Hitler used the word 'God' all the time

And then there was that little incident in the dark ages, I think it was called The Inquistion?
And then there's the pograms across Eastern Orthodox Europe over the last few hundred years.

But that's ALL BEHIND US! We SWEAR!

[The Stranger]

27. Yes, the Spanish Inquisition was the model of Church-State Separation.

Can it get any worse? (Don't answer that).

[genieroze]

13. That fat nasty theofascist retard can rot in hell with Boosh.

[Left Is Write]

14. I am absolutely flabbergasted.

I shouldn't be, but I am.

Unbelievable.

[K-W]

15. btw, Martin Luther, father of protestantism was a massive anti-semite

Germany was massively anti semetic long before hitler and it was very tied to their christianity.

[Nevernose]

55. That's unfair and inaccurate

After transforming Christianity, Martin Luther spent a decade or so trying to "save the souls" of German Jews. He thought it was more important than reforming the church. It wasn't until a decade or so into the unsuccessful process of converting the Jews that he became embittered and anti-Semitic. His earlier writings on the subject of Jews were filled with praise and respect.

To me, this speaks more of the failings shortcomings of a bitter old man than on the motives or true feelings of a devout Christian priest.

Hitler used the later writings to justify his atrocities and sick paradigm, while conveniently ignoring the earlier writings of Martin Luther.

[tom_paine]

16. Dear God, the ORWELLIAN REVISIONISM!

Is their any doubt that Scalia and his Medevalists would murder Jews (but they'd call them Liberal Traiotrs, naturally, in keeping with the non-racial, but still VERY racial, nature of Amerikan Tyranny) and two weeks later "forget" he ever did it?

My God, these people are CRAZY as the original Nazis, who were also deeply religious and believed they were Ordained by God.

The Madness...

And how disgusting it is that not ONE of my fellow Jews in that Synagogue didn;t DARE rise up and condemn the LIE!

[democracyindanger]

17. Gott mit uns

Isn't that the inscription that some Nazi units had on their belt buckles?

[Eric J in MN]

59. "God is with us" or "God is on our side"

was on the German soldiers belt-buckles in both WWI and WWII.

[fairfaxvadem]

19. He is insane.

Like the Jews were victims of "separation of Church and State"-give me a frigging break. When in all of Europe's history did Jewish folk play a major role in the matters of state? Never. And it was only until very recently (historically speaking) that the governments of Europe were truly secular. All those years under the thumb of Rome and notions of Divine Rule (the Christian kind, of course) and how much political power did Jews have then? Zero.

And Prostentantism was no kinder to the Jewish folk either.

Geez I can't stand that guy.

[madrchsod]

26. yes,he is insane

and we are so fucked,,,,,,,,

[Rose Siding]

43. He does seem quite mad.

Or is he just diabolical? So much worldly power and success...how would his insanity have conformed itself for him to accomplish so much?

I really enjoy the quotes on these sites by Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and Paine that knock the stuffing out of his contorted piety regarding the founders "intent".

The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. -Thomas Jefferson

...I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution. George Washington

My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
Thomas Paine

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2783307&mesg_id=2783307

Paine: I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

Jefferson: The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury to my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

John Adams: (a phrase in a treaty he ratified) As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion...

There's also some reasoned arguing here about how contemporary Christian fundamentalists subscribe to doctrine that has evolved considerably since the 1700's.

http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm

[genieroze]

20. Usenet nuts start posting this all over the place

Let's stir the psycho pot. I already started
He is the original article they are referring to
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--scalia-religion1122nov22,0,1455814.story

[ChicanoPwr]

29. Hope you didn't mind me adding extra ingredients into your psycho pot

I wonder how the Red State's love their crow cooked. I can't wait till I starting say I told you so, asshole.

[belle]

22. *thud*

Hey, Tony, why don't you just go on a long, LONG duck-hunting trip, ok?

[Maat]

24. Wow. Thanks for the link.

Saved the article, and e-mailed it to certain fundamentalist evangelical individuals.

And, Genieroze, may I use the term 'theofascist?' I love it.

[RussBLib]

30. Hitler was a Catholic - n/t

how strong is that scope?

[KamaAina]

31. Farmer Scalia: Hens Are Safer With Foxes In Charge

:scared: :scared: :scared:

[ChicanoPwr]

32. Scalia vs. Sharon: Round 1

Correct me if I am wrong, I could have sworen Sharon made an annoucement to the Jewish community world wide not too long ago. Didn't he say that every Jewish person come and live in Israel because Isreal can better protect them than any where else.

I guess Justice Scalia disagrees with Sharon.

[K-W]

33. Good point, so scalia wants christians to run Israel?

That cant be a very popular opinion with anyone who supports the original purpose of the state of Israel. And that is alot of people, at least I thought.

[ChicanoPwr]

34. Just look at it as a Freudian slip

Since Co-President Cheney and Scalia are good hunting buddies, I guess Cheney let him in on the US's secret for World Domination. But Scalia spilled the beans. I guess Israel is really in the secret axis of evil list.

[prodigal_green]

35. Well, look how swimmingly it is working out

for Muslims in countries where American Christians are in charge.

[KansDem]

37. And who was it that said "F*ck the Jews, they didn't vote for us?"

Ahhh, yes...James Baker. The attorney who put the godly GW Bush, the man Jesus Christ would most like to have a beer with, in the White House...

Timely GOP Quotes

"Fuck the Jews. They didn't vote for us"

-- Daddy Bush's Secretary of State, James Baker,
as quoted by Ed Koch in the New York Post, 1992

http://www.bartcop.com/0331.htm

[Sara Beverley]

39. But how safe are Christians with Jews in charge? That's the question.

History lessons lost are history lessons to be repeated. Look at what is happening all around us now? A huge part of our being in Iraq right now is in support of Israel and the Israeli lobby that controls our Congress.

[proud patriot]

40. That's condescendingly racist of Scalia to say IMO

x(

[CindyDale]

41. OK, this is the problem with the press

The press reports what these people say, and when what these people say is untrue, the press doesn't report that it isn't true.

The press needs to report the truth, rather than simply reporting what people say.

We have always had separation of church and state. It's absurd to suggest otherwise. The use of the word "God" wasn't prohibited, but that doesn't mean that church and govenment were allowed to mix.

Why doesn't the AP have the courage to speak up about the facts, instead of just reporting Scalia's absurd, idiosyncratic, distorted view of history?

This is the whole problem.

Cindy

[Lefty48197]

42. Sure. Look what happened when the Romans were "in charge of" the Jews.

.

[readmoreoften]

44. I don't think gay Jews are safer n/t

[donhakman]

45. If I told my nieghbor

that she was safer with me in charge
I would think she could take it as a threat.

[ChicanoPwr]

54. Sure she will take as a threat from you

but truth is, you don't have the title of Justice. I think that is why Scalia felt the word had to come him. You know, any thing that comes from the Supreme Court has been given a lot of thought. Your neighbor really doesn't know what is good for her, she must be told from the wise men who serve from the Supreme Court.

[baldguy]

46. Too bad then that a Sataic Death Cult has America in its clutches

[seabeyond]

47. scalia said..........women need to stand behind man

and minorities need to understand white man has always had the power

and we had better all just learn to accept that

i paraphrase, but this was a speech to law students in closed door lecture that he didnt want to get out. if that speech had been more widely sent out by the media, that too might have bothered some

[oneighty]

49. Scalia's

type were known as "Dagos, Grease Balls, Wops" and other pet names when I was a child in my Community (Commune). Most of THEM lived up on the other side of the Rail Road tracks in "Little Italy."

Eventually with help from the liberals and progressives in our society (Social group) they were able to move right in with us white folks (WASPS).

Screw you Scalia

180

[whosinpower]

51. Then why

Did the US turn jewish refugees away and not allow them to immigrate during the second world war?????????

Is he not aware of the SS St. Louis saga?? The cruise ship destined for Cuba with thousands of jews onboard, only to be turned away - the US REFUSING to allow them refugee status on the mainland????

snip - The St. Louis left Germany on May 13, 1939. Its passengers, most of them from Germany, had expensive documents - some bogus - for entry into Cuba.

When the ship arrived, however, Havana - and the US - refused to admit them. The St. Louis sat in the harbor for days.

Desperate relatives packed motorboats and approached the anchored liner, shouting messages to loved ones. All awaited the outcome of frantic international negotiations to allow the refugees to disembark.

Ultimately, only 29 passengers were permitted to land in Havana. Then the ship was ordered to leave - maneuvering slowly and tantalizingly near the coast of Florida before turning back to Europe.

On June 17, 1939, the St. Louis docked at Antwerp: 214 passengers remained in Belgium, 224 went to France and 181 to the Netherlands. Another 288 passengers went ashore in Britain on June 21.

http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/voyage.html


Sorry for the rant, but jeez I get tired of the hypocrisy.

[bvar22]

53. Some interesting pics from the archives:

Many more interesting pictures from this era at:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm





I didn't get a toy train like the other kids. I got a toy subway instead.
You couldn't see anything, but every now and then you'd hear this rumbling noise go by. -- Steven Wright

[girl gone mad]

56. Hitler used Christianity the same way..

Bush uses Christianity. He conspired with church leaders, and frequently appropriated religious symbolism and imitated religious rituals.

Hitler and Bush (or perhaps Rove) both had/have an innate understanding of organized religion's hold on people, and of how to manipulate that system to achieve their own ends.

[ChicanoPwr]

57. I guess he figures what he says must be true

Very similar to his masters.

1. There are WMD, so it must be true
2. There is a link between 9/11 and Iraq

So naturally, Scalia is following the same logic model.

[Eric J in MN]

58. Of course Jews were safer in America in the 1940s than in

Europe, and we had more separation of church and state here.

In World War I and II, the belt-buckles of German soldiers said, "God is on our side."