So, I'm just watching the pay per view preview of F9/11

[AngryLizard]

And I still can't fucking BELIEVE we lost that election. How is this possible? Do 59 million people have their heads that firmly stuck in the sand or up their own asses? Or each other's asses? Yes, I know there might have been fraud, but you know what? We lost.

Once again, I feel sucker-punched by my own countrymen.

End rant.
Thank you for listening.

[aquart]

1. Stop believing CNN.

Really. It makes you doubt your own sanity.

[AngryLizard]

2. Not quite sure I see the connection

Stop believing CNN? About the fact that we lost the election?

[Trailrider1951]

3. Angry, we lost because they stole it.

The exit polls were right. The "counted" votes were lies. :evilfrown:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RuleofLaw]

5. And you're entitled to it

No matter how wrong it is.

And that is my opinion!

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fujiyama]

8. What exactly

did he knowingly and admitedly twist? It wasn't the flights that were flown out in the first couple days. That's been proven to be true.

I know Moore does turn off a lot of people. I talked to several and they simply don't trust him but ultimately most of what was presented in the film was true.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemonFighterLives]

10. Have you been drinking the koolaid?

Just seeing bush and bush daddy kissing all over the saudis and the taliban should be warning enough.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sterling]

13. So the bank did not give away free guns?

I think that was the point that had impact, not that they gave out the gun at the bank. Don't you. The inappropriate nature of giving away a weapon as a bank promotion was the point.

The fact is IF they did not give the guns away on bank property they had no problem playing like they did in the film which indicates they were proud of their idiotic promotion and had no idea of the irony of the entire situation. It's not hard to get stupid people to act stupid on camera.

That reminds me of the complaint that Moore played Bushes statement about the Palestinian situation where he said "now watch this drive" after giving a very cavalier two line statement calling on people to stop the killing. The RW cried foul and claimed he was trying to say Bush was saying that about our troops.

It's funny but most reasonable people would think regardless of who Bush was talking about it was a cold unfeeling way to deal with a serious satiation and very undignified for our leader. But somehow pukes refuse to acknowledge that and pretend that a very serious and valid point was not made.

Or the one where they cay that since R Clark actually passed on Bushes order to get the Bin Ladens out of the country that Bush was somehow not responsible for it.

I would be too embarrassed to make these dishonest points in the company of people who have actually seen the movie but I am not a piece of shit repuke who is accustomed to faith based thinking.

[Columbia]

24. Actually no

The gun is given in lieu of interest when you open up a CD account of over $5000. So I suppose it would be ironic to open a CD, pay the bank and go through the process of transferring the gun with 4473 with full identification and then rob the bank with it. Pretty silly to think like that huh?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

20. We're talking about F 9/11, not BFC

everything can be corroborated in F 9/11. Looks like you've been listening to the RW wackos...

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

30. You understand that DU is for Democrats and other Progressives?

You just quoted the rules to another poster, so I gather you read them. Your brand of Libertarianism is hardly centrist.

Why use a personal quote from Internet Movie Database as evidence? That messageboard is full of freepers, who get their information from RW websites.

Enjoy your stay! :hi:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Booster]

36. Without mentioning Kerry, explain to those of us who just don't

get it, exactly why you think Bush is ok. And I'm serious here.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Booster]

39. You said you were on the fence about Kerry. Are you telling me

you weren't on the fence about Bush? Did you end up voting for Nader? If you did, then you are part of the problem not the solution.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sterling]

15. I know for a fact the Townsend issue was not over royalties so you

Have lost your credibility in your effort to discredit MM.

Royalties for the song would be nothing for Moore to pay and they can't really be waved since money would be owed to the manager of Townsend's publishing.

The rest seem to be unsubstantiated claims on the part of your source.

You can believe your own eyes or something some RW blog tells you is in the Moore's movies.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sterling]

23. So in other words you did what you accuse Moore of?

You said he refused to pay which is all but impossible given the way publishing works. Townsend was for the war, THAT is the reason he did not allow the song to be used. Now he obviously feels guilty about that.

It sounds like he would like people to think at this point it was because Moore refused to pay but we know that can't be true.

Industry standard is between 15 and 35k for using a track in a film, well within the budget of a film like f 9-11. Unless Townsend was asking for something unreasonable out of dislike of Moores work the money could not have been an issue. Either way you were wrong.

[Hippo_Tron]

42. The point in BFC is that they GIVE AWAY GUNS IN BANKS

It's an absurd practice. He's not arguing that they aren't a licensed gun dealer, hell in that movie he didn't even argue for stricter gun control laws. He argues that America is obsessed with guns to the point that we give them out in BANKS for god's sake.

[Sterling]

12. Yes in fact I do. I personally know dozens of people

Who went to the movie and came out thinking Bush was killing our country.

No he never admitted to twisting things he said he had a point of view. He supported that point of view with facts and used footage that let Bush and friends discredit themselves.

Moore is not just some guy writing for a local paper. He is a very famous award winning film maker and the only people who take issue with his credibility are people who do not like to hear what he has to say.

What do you specifically take issue with about his film. It's your cred on the line hear not his. Put up or STFU.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pick_a_dilly]

19. hey 'sitting-in-the-middle ...

your criticism is lame . . . you need to maybe go back under the bridge and or back to your freeper pals . . .

Moore certainly took some artistic liberties, some of which you mention ----- SO THE FUCK WHAT???

the bush crime family are evil, his cabal is illeagal, his agenda is nothing short of disaster and Moore is a damn hero to stand up in opposition...

what have you done to protect America???

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sterling]

27. I only see one and time will tell if he is right or not.

Generally people who oppose Bush don't take RW blogs description of Moore's work at face value and repeat their talking points on this site.

Please tell us what you have done. Don't be shy, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Sterling]

25. Thats funny the bank employees said they were give aways.

That much was very clear from seeing the film.

"I don't think it's crazy to give away a perfectly good, high quality rifle out in the middle of hunting territory"

Make up your mind were they given away or not?

Well you are entitled to think that giving guns away as abank promotion is cool but the point driven home in Moore's film was that it was not, the film was very popular and won several awards so I would say his point was well recieved. The issue of Moore's credibility does not seem to be afactor here only your belief that gun give aways are agood idea.

And yes that was Moore's opinion, which he supported with facts very well.

Star wars geeks? So since some of us actually watched the film and can point out you have no idea what you are talking about makes us geeks? Too funny. I think it makes you look like a liar or at best someone who spoots of about things they never bothered actually study.

Look if you are going to go around trying to discredit a very popular film you should be prepaired to defend your points to people who have actually seen the film.

[Dukkha]

33. I find Your Lack Of Faith Disturbing

had to do it:)

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tuttle]

14. Did you see this film?

F911?

Tut-tut

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

22. Maybe you should have

[Sterling]

31. You would think someone with such a strong opinion

That took it upon themselves to attack the work on a public forum would have actually done their homework. that seems to be a common fault of people who have come out against the film. They are ignorant to the topic and most likely not to bright in general if they think it will not make them look like assholes in the comany of people who have seen the film.

It;s funny the posters defense to being proven wrong is to ridicule people for knowing too much about the film, classic.

[Carolina]

29. what are you smoking

you don't think it changed minds?!! You don't think seeing Colin and Condi tell one story about Iraq before 9/11 (i.e. no threat) and then, as we all know, lie afterwards, seeing Bush in that classroom on 9/11, seeing the inaugural protests, seeing the sea of smug white senators' faces while the Congressional Black Caucus protested certifiying the 2000 (s)election results ... none of that had an effect. You think it was all so over the top. Spare me. You must not have seen it in a theater, you must not have noted audience response(s) or the millions who flocked to see it as documented by the $$$$ millions it made.

It had an effect and we won, but the repukes cheated again with Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia!

[Sterling]

32. He did not see the movie.

He is lying and has been caught so now the MEME is 'you guys are geeks becuase you know I am full of shit and got my talking points from RW douchebags who did not see the movie either"

It seems there are 2 f911's. The one that played in the theatre and the one RWers complain about.

[Generator]

7. It does boggle the mind doesn't it?

So much so that I'm left spouting witless (a rare writty one too) puns and one-liners. Driven absoultely mad (DAMN it should drive you mad) by the stupidity of my country.

Help. I don't think I can watch that movie again until Bush is long gone.

I tend to believe Kerry won. I watch the fraud updates closely. It's the only thing that doesn't have me running screaming for the exits. (that would be Canada)

[Maiden England]

35. I just watched BFC for the first time...

I can understand why some people don't like Michael Moore. He uses his position, to present a point of view, based on available information and fact, and frames that point of view into an argument, choosing to highlight the part of the story which best illustrates his point.
Yeah, and that is different from the right wing media - how exactly? :shrug:
Besides what I read from BFC, and in conjuction with F9/11, isn't that guns are the problem, nor necessarily a bank giving away 'free' guns as part of an incentive to open an account. MM makes that point in BFC, that guns do not kill people. At least not in Canada, or most other places in the world. Guns do not kill people. PEOPLE kill people. The problem lies within the nature of society in this country, where people are kept in a perpetual state of fear. People in a state of fear, BUY things, it makes them feel better. They are conditioned to believe that buying things will make them feel better. Watching BFC in hindsight after the last 4 years, makes it glaringly obvious. First there was the fear over Y2K, ahhh, the world will end, but boy did you SEE those battery sales, man, they were through the roof.
If 9/11 was an attempt to scare the American people, then it worked, it worked overtime, and the fear driven society, was driven back to the comfort of WalMart. Whether the perpetrators of 9/11 intended this outcome, who knows, because its quite doubtful this administration will do anything about tracking them down and asking them.

[Hippo_Tron]

43. Moore does fancy editing to create illusions...

For example, in Bowling For Columbine, when he shows the pro gun rally after the shootings, he shows Charleton Heston saying "From my cold dead hands". Heston didn't actually say that AT THAT RALLY, but the FACT remains that they did hold a pro gun rally after a school shooting which was TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE.

Also from Bowling for Columbine. Do people not really lock their doors in Canada? I don't know. Do they have fewer gun deaths, A LOT FEWER. Do they have great social programs so that even their poorest aren't denied access to see a fucking doctor and their kids denied a decent education, YES. Does America have these, NO! And that's the situation created where that kid was left alone with no supervision because his mother was sent to work hours away for a welfare check. If they had lived in Canada, there would have been decent afterschool care for that Child so that he wouldn't remain unsupervised and able to get ahold of his uncle's gun.

Another example, from F/911. Moore shows military recruiters trying to recruit kids in poor areas. FACT, military recruiters try to recruit in several areas, rich or poor. FACT, military recruiters have more success recruiting people from poorer backgrounds.

Also, I find it interesting that the right hates the man so much. First of all, he wasn't the first to talk about the things that were in F 9/11, he just found a clever (and yes biased) way to present them. Also, Moore very appropriately bashed democrats, particularly Tom Daschle, who definately deserves the criticism. And although I don't agree with him, he called Clinton the best Republican President we've ever had in Stupid White Men.