This Applachia Research Project is really moving me

[JohnKleeb]

Ive been assigned a 7-10 page research assignment on poverty in applachia, and reading what I've read so far has really made me near tears, this isn't even 3-4 hours drive a way from me and here am I living in one of hte richest areas in the world, I may not like what he did by continuing the vietnam war but god bless LBJ for having the balls to say something about the poverty problem, bless people like Bobby Kennedy who dearly wanted to help these people, people like Rory Kennedy who seek to show their struggle to the rest of us, and people like Father Ralph Beiting who have selflessly given their lives and time to these people. Yes, I want a second war on poverty in this country.

[AP]

1. Right on.

I read something about how LBJ really wanted to highlight black poverty but knew that if he went to black areas, America wouldn't get it. So he went to Appalachia and did other things at the same time in effort to get people to connect up race and poverty and show people that we're all in one big boat and that holding down one part of society holds the rest of us down.

I might be totally misrembering this, but I think that's the impression I got from reading someting about LBJ. Maybe it was in those Beschloss books about LBJ.

[JohnKleeb]

7. It's just so sad to read about

It's really made me think really hard about this but there are some out there like the priest I mentioned who are genuinely doing some good, god will have a special place for him when he leaves this earth I feel.

[kentuck]

I was a child in Appalachia when LBJ was President.....

In a family with nine children, it may have saved our lives. It was that important. He kept me alive and later sent me to Vietnam. So there are usually two sides to every great individual. LBJ reminded me very much of FDR. :)

edit to add:
The "Happy Pappy" program was quite effective. It paid about $275 per month, and even though much of the work was "make-work", it was something.

[JohnKleeb]

10. LBJ grew up poor, his mentor was FDR

I think he was wrong in what he did in Vietnam no doubt but even though he could be a jerk, he cared about people. I am not poor, far from it but I will always remember that my mom worked hard to get us where we are now, she grew up in a family that worked hard for every penny.

[Radical Activist]

15. nt

[Sara Beverley]

27. Fully one fourth of Jesse Jackson's Presidential campaign messages were

about poverty in Appalachia. No one wanted to hear about it.

[JohnKleeb]

31. my research has told me that Jesse Jackson was big in Clinton's

late term poverty intiatives. I like Clinton but he really should have made taking poverty on a priority.

[Metatron]

2. I also want another War on Poverty

It really is sad when you see what some of our fellow Americans have to go through. Good luck with the paper, John.

[Radical Activist]

3. Have you read

Let Us Now Praise Famous Men by James Agee? It's a great old book on poverty in the South, especially focusing on sharecroppers. It's a great read, well written and it would go well with your assignment. I read that Paul Wellstone used to recommend it to people.

[JohnKleeb]

9. I could look for that at borders perhaps, Wellstone

now there was a latter day RFK if there ever was one.

[Radical Activist]

16. No doubt, even to the point

that Wellstone did another poverty tour of the South, just like RFK's. We need more people like them.

[JohnKleeb]

17. in fact I supported Kucinich in the primaries not because of his view

on the war but because of his economic views which is part of the reason why I liked Edwards as well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. This time it will be far more widespread

it will include people who have never thought they would face the trials and tribulations of Apalachia... as Bush is bankurpting the country

[KT2000]

5. You are so right

There are many different Americas and those in need just do not get the attention anymore.

[MountainLaurel]

6. Try an hour away

Kleebie, you're in Herndon or Reston, aren't you? There are places like this just across the border in WV on Rt. 15 and Rt. 9. My friend taught special ed for two years in a place where kids "come down off the mountain" for school. Most of them get their one balanced meal a day at school, think that violence is the way to solve problems, and never had anyone read to them until they got to kindergarten.

[JohnKleeb]

8. Herndon

Quite a few of my teachers actually live out there in West Virginia.

[MountainLaurel]

12. Yep

I know a lot of teachers who live in Martinsburg and Charles Town and drive down to Loudoun and Fairfax. Most of them are people I went to college with. It's a two-sided coin: You can't afford to live in NoVa on just a teacher's salary without having 4 roommates or living with your mom, and the pay in VA is about $10K to $15K above what they'd make in WV.

A book I suggest on Appalachia that really hits the sociology of the place is "Night Comes to the Cumberland" by a man named Cahill.

One topic you might want to look into in your report is that of the brain drain in Appalachia: Kids whose can get out to obtain a college education and want to return home, but can't find a job in their field or one that pays enough to survive on. (Especially considering that a kid from Appalachia is most likely going to require a lot of student loans. Or, think of Jessica Lynch and Lynndie England, both of whom are Appalachian girls who joined the military in order to get a college education.)

(Sorry for all the topic suggestions, but I'm a librarian by trade, and this is a topic I'm very close to.)

[JohnKleeb]

14. hah funny you mention that

Its just about the poverty but the military service part is relevant. About that book, I have it already, I got it while we were doing research in the school library. Ha, the librarians know and like me lol, I am such a book nerd, I got props while I was checking out Gideon's Trumpet for pleasure reading, you know Gideon Vs Wainwright, a fascinating case.

[blackcatpgh]

38. loans/moving back

i'm originally from south-southwestern PA, now living in pittsburgh. went to pgh for college on loans over 10 years ago, and i've wanted to move back "home" for a few years, but because of the limited opportunities there, it's not a possibility. I'm stuck here or another city with jobs farther from home until the loans are paid off.

MountainLaurel hit the nail on the head in that post.

[MountainLaurel]

41. Charleston Gazette

Did a series on the topic a couple years ago. The issue is a poser -- you can't attract new businesses without a strong education system and a solid infrastructure, but you can't afford those without the business base's financial support through taxes. (But then of course, there's the issue of a culture where education isn't valued, so funding that should be going to academic pursuits will instead end up in the athletic department budget, and anyone who wasn't born and raised there is permanently viewed with suspiction.)

[mike_c]

40. you might be interested to know that I dedicated my dissertation...

...to the Martinsburg Public Library. PM me if you're interested in hearing the story.

[dbt]

11. Try some Appalachian folk music if you haven't already.

It might take some of the edge off what you're feeling--or it may only sharpen it. It'll sure put a few things in perspective.

:hi:
dbt

[JohnKleeb]

13. I really dont have any sound on my computer but thanks

I do know the coal miner's struggle through the taleks of my grandparents though.

[lectrobyte]

26. It's not in great shape today. I'd love to move back to the

mountains, but no jobs, and not good prospects. Assuming I get to retirement age, I'll live there again. In the meantime, some Uncle Tupelo to ponder:

we've got two kinds here
those that bleed the blood
and those that work to will it


in memory of a miner
who dragged himself to work
and worked himself to death
working for someone else
we follow each other around on shaky ground

his life had become to him
worthless in many ways
an expired product off the shelf
working for someone else
we follow each other around on shaky ground

the nature of his work
gave him a minstrel color
twenty hours a day
little time he had for others
we follow each other around on shaky ground

never got to see the world
he got a funeral and this miner's song
there is no right or wrong

now it's down to the wire
facing six feet under
can only wonder and stare
his name was a number

[kitchen girl]

34. Totally agree!

The Library of Congress has some amazing field recordings. :hi:

[Just Me]

18. I see it everyday.

It's like the invisible America.

But, it's certainly not isolated to just the rural Appalachian area.

I saw it everywhere in Washington State when I lived there.

I just cannot get beyond the horrifying reality that this country is so damned rich yet has 45+ million Americans in poverty and it's just getting worse.

[JohnKleeb]

19. of course, its not just applachia

Sorry if I offended, its this project in specific is on povery there. Really tragic, it is an invisible america, and I feel so sick after reading that Reagan cut this program, LBJ set up for them.

[phylny]

43. Bravo on your project.

I work in the Hudson Valley of New York and I work with poor families every work day. The way poor people have to live is terrible. In one family, the sister of a child I work with showed me a mark below her lip. "This is where the cockroach bit me last night. The cockroaches are always biting me."

I wish I could pack the whole bunch of them up and take them home with me. As it is, I'm going to bring a carton of roach traps to them next week, knowing that it probably won't even make a dent.

[kentuck]

21. Rural Colorado is one of the poorest areas in the nation....

It's in every state.

[JohnKleeb]

23. what part of colorado is that?

and wasn't mining really big out there too?

[kentuck]

24. Yes, in fact it was...

Down around the Trinidad area. It is close to the Ludlow Massacre area. The San Luis Valley is a very poor part of the state, in the southern part of the state.

[kentuck]

20. The history of the coal mines are directly related to the poverty

in Appalachia. Read about the town of Lynch, and "Bloody Harlan", and John L. Lewis. They are directly related to the continuing struggle in Appalachia. And don't forget the sludge that polluted the Ohio river for hundreds of miles a few years ago. I can remember going to the coal mine with my Dad when I was 10-12 years old. He was a mule driver. I can still feel the damp darkness....I can still see the water dripping from the slate that was always falling in front of you or behind you and sometimes on top of you - only held up by poplar timbers, cut from the surrounding hills.

[JohnKleeb]

22. I know a lot about John L Lewis

Through my grandparents, a great man he was and the UMAW. My grandparents adore Lewis as much as they do Roosevelt, my great grandparents barely spoke any english but they realized how important the union was.

[rhyfeddu]

25. Yes, these folks have really been abandoned

They certainly don't have the political pull that modern politicians court, they don't have visibility in our larger culture (except as a joke for urban-centric people), and they (and the surrounding country) were used by coal companies and the like, and ditched when the coal ran out or wasn't profitable.

There's no jobs, no support, little hope. A vicious cycle of poverty, no education, poverty, no education (and let's not forget about malnutrition). If only so many people hadn't abandoned their ability to live self-sufficiently and sustainably, like my grandparents did, they wouldn't be so vulnerable. So many skills lost, tho'...

My 20-something cousin stayed, and the "best" way for him to support himself and his family was to trade in weed - which he's gotten nailed for - so it didn't get him very far.

Too many people blame Appalachians for the state they're in, as if the conditions, and how they've gotten the shaft (no pun intended) over the years, doesn't enter into it, at all. Easier to make fun of the toothless hillbilly. Its called poverty.

*sigh* I'm really glad they're teaching you some of this where you are. I'm really, I don't know, touched, myself - that you're moved by what you're learning.

Check out these progressive rural voices, if you want to "read more about it":

www.ruralstrategies.org
www.appvoices.org


A Picky-Ass note, I know, but its "Appalachian" - another 'A' ;-)

[theHandpuppet]

28. A book recommendation

You can find these used -- my copy finally fell apart but I intend to buy another.

COLES, Robert. Still Hungry In America
NY: World 1969. Photographs by Al Clayton. Introduction by Edward M. Kennedy & dedicated to the memory of Robert Francis Kennedy. ISBN 0452251427

[JanMichael]

29. I understand why you feel that way, it's painful to see how poorly some...

...of our fellow citizens live. Matter of fact in my opinion it's a crime of the first magnitude. It's a economic system failure.

Just out of curiosity, have you noticed the type of DU'ers are NOT posting on this thread?

Curious.

[JohnKleeb]

30. no I havent noticed

[Tsiyu]

32. There are good things happening here in Appalachia.

I have chosen to live here, and live as poor as the next person. We don't have the material things or the flashy stores but there is more to life than that. You might drive down the main drags on the mountain and see simple, rude architecture. If you hike the trail off that road, you will find natural beauty that beats any mansion or mall or museum in the city.

But it is sad when girls can't go to school because they don't have feminine hygiene products or bras. It is sad when kids turn to meth because there aren't enough things for them to do in those restless teen years. It's sad when a neighbor gets robbed by another neighbor. It's sad that children go hungry and cold in the winter. And it is sad to see the good mountain traditions die.

If you want to help, I suggest donating all you can to the Appalachian Women's Guild. Grassroots. Kind-hearted men and women who offer help with no judgement. They hold a Barefoot Boy Auction every summer to pay for school clothes for kids.

I'll find a link.

On Edit: http://www.omnisoftware.com/Womens_Guild/

Tell them Inga sent you...

Hey Kleebovich. Thanks for saying something. :yourock:

[JohnKleeb]

36. Sure, I don't have much money

though, its just really sad to me to see kids around here bitch about how they don't get nice enough cars, when some of these poor kids have a hard time affording clothing.

[ulysses]

33. wars on poverty are so passe these days.

C'mon, John. You don't really expect the party as it is now to back some kind of Great Society craziness, do you? That might involve doing things that the Republicans don't like. Bad policy, dontcha know.

[JohnKleeb]

35. this isn't about politics or the democratic party, its about people

CAP: Christian Appalchian Project is a non-political organization started by a Catholic priest, I know many of us don't like religion or the Catholic Church but they do so much noble deeds that some of us don't have the balls to do. I really don't want to discuss politics right now, sorry, I posted this because of the inhumanity of it all, not the politics.

[ulysses]

39. you think the politics doesn't affect your concerns? n/t

[AP]

42. If I had to guess why Kleeb finds your post annoying...

...I'd say it's because they way you've framed the issue makes it sound like there's nothing that can be done, whereas Kleeb is giving props in this thread to the people who are out there trying to get something done for these people, and Kleeb himself is probably thinking about how he's going to get something done about this issue.

[hollowdweller]

37. I live in Rural WV and while there is a lot of poverty

There's a lot of plus's too. The biggest downside is that while the area has tremendous wealth as far as coal and timber it does not benefit the majority of citizens because years ago big companies bought the mineral rights to peoples land for a song and the gov't which is bought and sold by the same industries won't make them clean up after themselves or pay their fare share of taxes. Also 20 years ago there were LOTS of good union jobs with benefits and now there's nothing like that.

HOWEVER if you get an education you can still get a job here and live a good life. I could move to PA or OH and double my salary, but I own 85 acres of woods. I can step out on my porch and take a leak, shoot guns, tip up a liquor bottle or basically do whatever I want without worrying about anybody calling the man on me. I have free natural gas from a well on my property and have NO heating bill in winter. I can hunt and hike on my own land and the land of the adjoining properties so it amounts to having about 500 acres to play in! And at the same time I live 45 minutes from the capitol with lots of music, culture and other stuff.

The worse places are the southern coalfields. They are the most depressed. Still beautiful though

[ridgerunner]

44. Here's another book for ya

The Kentucky by Thomas Clark. I read it a couple of years ago for a rural sociology course and it has some really good info. However, I find that Clark, even though he is Kentucky's Historian Laureate, doesn't really think too highly of Kentuckians.