Did anyone ever anticipate that our country could sink so low so quickly?

[CoffeeAnnan]

I mean we have been on a downhill slide since 1990 when the attacks on Clinton began.Even when they got their power in 2000,they seem to have unleashed resentments against just about everyone on earth.They seem unable to deal with any issue, however trivial except in the Us Vs.Them attitude. Nothing they say can be taken for granted and, yet, they seem to receive uncritical treatment from the Press time after time.

What has gone wrong with this great country of ours?

[ablbodyed]

1. Not surprised>>>>

given the prevalence of imbeciles in this country.

[tjdee]

2. 9/11, right into the toilet.

I think it started in 2000, with the election.

Then 9/11 turned many into shrill, defensive, warmongering knuckledraggers.

I don't remember things being so nasty and heated on both sides (even during the Clinton "scandal") until that point. There was the shock, and the grief, and then it got ugly.

[hinachan]

4. Hell, it's been happening for 20 years

How do you think the Repukes turned "liberal" into a dirty word? Reagan used it against Carter, set up the whole Iran/Contra thing, and it's just gone downhill from there. :mad:

[tjdee]

6. Maybe...maybe I just had a rude awakening in 2000.

:(

[DemoTex]

11. The demise of the USA has little to do with 9/11.

9/11 is just a convenient scapegoat for the Neo-Cons as they continue to rip the fabric of our society. They knew 9/11 was coming. They let it happen. Ultimately, they will pay. But there will be much suffering, here and abroad, before they are held accountable.

[LittleClarkie]

29. A catalyst and/or wheel grease at least

and a convenient thing to hide behind when you ask WTF they think they're doing. So simple to wrap yourself in the flag and ask why the dissent hates America.

[Vincardog]

3. They have stolen our country and are dragging it as far to the right as

they can. They (The Radical Right) are hoping to drag us into a theocracy before we know what is happening. We need to stand up and fight back now.

[hinachan]

5. Theocracy? More like theo-fascism!

They're as bad as the fundie Muslims, and this is their Christian jihad....

[Vincardog]

12. Would you settle on Neo-Fascist-Theocrait-Jihad?

[NuttyFluffers]

24. i just prefer psychotic evil.

it's rather succinct and encompassing.

[DireStrike]

7. I think we need time... (and effort)

This right wing effort has been consolidating for many years. Assuming no fraud, I'm amazed at how well we're doing.

9/11 told people to stop thinking. The press loves any heated political climate because it can be very lazy as most claims are too complicated or passionately defended to be taken on. They sit back and let "experts" do the talking, and try to be as passive as possible... which is to the benefit of the GOP which has a consolidated spin machine.

Given time, and a cooling political climate (will it happen?) people will go back to thinking. Not all of them, but maybe enough to have a cumulative effect.

While this is happening we need to forge alliances within our party, formulate our message and our values/principles, and find a way to market this message in the context of the mindset of all voters who are not completely opposed to democratic ideals.

[Bluzmann57]

8. The dumbing down of America

and I am not the most educated man in the world, or even in my family, but even I am smart enough to see that the right wing scream machine has destroyed everything about education. By education, I don't neccessarily mean our schools, although the righties are doing their level best to destroy the public education system too. No, I am referring to the lack of choices people have, or at least the perception of no choice. Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. are all over the airwaves and any opposition gets shot down by talking over them, name calling, cutting off all opposing viewpoints, etc. This is what corporate people have had in mind for many many years. To destroy Unions, destroy people's free wills. And predjudice(sp?) is making a comeback too. It is called divide and conquer and it is working. It is an old tactic, one which, as a Union Steward, I have warned about. Now it goes beyond the workplace out into society.I realize that when several million people are thrown together, we are not all going to get along and the righties are exploiting that by selling fear and suspicion. This is at least part of what I consider the dumbing down of America, it is what the corporate people want and now they have the mechanism in place to keep it this way for a long time.
Please note that I do not think all corporate people are bad, Warren Buffet and George Soros are two shining examples of whats right about corporate America. But the good ones are few and far between. We need to educate every American about what is happening and if they still choose to vote repub, then so be it. But the educated and people like me who take time to at least try and study issues have to reach these people.

[DougieZero]

9. People don't care

Out of all the people I know, I'm the most political... People really don't care what's going on. I hate to be so cynical, but it's true.

[shanti]

15. i believe this is true

most people's eyes start glazing over when you discuss politics with them. i used to be like that before i woke up...:think:

[Lizzie Borden]

10. I know this is bad...

but as bad as things are, similar things have happened before. When Nixon beat McGovern in '72 (and he beat him bad. He only won 1 state-MA.) Many many of us wondered how things had gotten that bad, how people could be that STUPID, why people voted for someone who was a crook, how we were going to get the war stopped etc. Many were without hope. Then Watergate opened up. It had taken place the June before Nixon's election. People were shocked that they had been taken advantage of by the Nixon administration. It was a time when many people lost faith in the system (of course, in those days our vote counted). I keep thinking what we have to do is keep focusing on the stolen election. Votergate. When we control the electoral process again, we will have a chance.

[DougieZero]

13. Hey

but as bad as things are, similar things have happened before. When Nixon beat McGovern in '72 (and he beat him bad. He only won 1 state-MA.)

That was before my time, but I always thought that people didn't like the Vietnam War back then... How did Nixon get re-elected? What was he promising to do?

[barb162]

14. Nixon had a "secret plan" to end the war and people bought that

malarkey

[Squeech]

18. Nixon won in '72 the same way Rove won in '04

By demonizing the other guy. They painted George McGovern as the "acid, amnesty and abortion" candidate, in so many words.

[barb162]

17. I think it is far worse that you think it is but I hope you are right

But my take on it is that the fundies weren't around in any of the numbers or strength then like they are now. Also the Watergate burglary was a stroke of luck, a gift from the heavens, and at least one newspaper (WP) was willing to follow up on the story and then to later take on a prez. The media now is all owned by corporations basically. Katherine Graham was independently wealthy and had good instincts. The media now is all giant ass-kissing machines for the GOP.

The Joe Wilson/Valerie Plame story, for example, is going nowheresville. No one in media has the balls anymore to do investigation against the administration. Also the amazing lies by shrub about Iraq only got him reelected.

[VOX]

31. At least the congress was Democratic during Nixon's reign...

But now? We are *totally* screwed! :scared:

[Squeech]

16. The Bushies just exposed the rot

America has been eating its seed corn for a really long time-- depending on which arena, anywhere between 20 and 200 years.

Economically, we're reaping the rewards of Reaganomics. Deficits are the least of our problems; we've also largely abandoned the idea that businesses owe anything to anyone but shareholders, so we now have an economy whose explicit purpose is to concentrate wealth.

In foreign policy, the Iraq war makes explicit the power projection and neo-colonialism that the rest of the world has always seen, and feared, in us. Used to be we sent the CIA to spread money around and pretend it was a lucky coincidence when some anti-Communist colonels snuffed a democratically elected populist, but now we've reverted to the gunboat diplomacy of the 19th century.

We're used to being the most scientifically advanced country in the world, but we haven't invented anything important since the desktop computer. Do you know that the working parts of *every* VCR in the world are made in Japan or Korea? And now we can't do stem cells because the Jeebofascists don't like it. (Or until Jerry Falwell gets diabetes.)

And funny thing about that environment we used to have. Remember when "conservative" was etymologically related to "conserve," which meant "save for the future?"

[radwriter0555]

19. I warned everyone, no one listened.

So, I'm leaving the country.

Moving to italy.

[Dem2theMax]

22. Take me with you. Please. nt.

[Historic NY]

20. Going to hell in a hand basket........dispised worldwide.........face it.

[n2mark]

21. This is my belief

It all started with Newt Gengrich-- did I slaughter his name? This is when I began to hear about the RW. You may want to connect the dots.

[Nordic]

23. 9/11 destroyed this country, which is just pathetic

9/11 showed that America was a bunch of pansy-assed pussies who would gladly give away all their freedoms and liberties to a bunch of fascists in the name of "revenge".

I am so disgusted at my fellow Americans for being such pussies.

Who would have thought that America could have been slain with one simple attack? But slain she is.

America is so over.

[KnowerOfLogic]

25. Time for Blue State secession. nt

[depakid]

26. Raises hand!

I lived through the Reagan era... I saw all this coming a long time ago.

Once FCC Chairman Mark Fowler eliminated 60 years of responsible regulation of the media, the game was basically a defensive battle- and one the left was destined to lose.

You had to be alive & cognizant back then to truly know how much is lost.

[Squeech]

27. Actually many people anticipated it

George Orwell, for one. If you recall, even though 1984 is set in the British Isles, Big Brother's regime includes the American continent. He wanted to call it 1948, but his publisher thought that was way too soon. (As it was, we still had 20 more years.)

There's another thread about Robert A. Heinlein and his prediction of a religious dictatorship in America, in the book Revolt in 2100.

There are other useful examples in science fiction. Callenbach (I think his first name is Ernest) wrote two books describing a country called Ecotopia, which is basically the Pacific Coast states north of Sacramento having seceded and managing themselves on ecologically sound principles, while the rest of the USA continues on its gas-guzzling, smoke-belching, mine-tailing, polluting corporatist way.

The best IMHO is John Brunner. He treated ecological catastrophe in a novel called The Sheep Look Up, and it's one of the scariest books I know. Another book of his, The Shockwave Rider, attempts to describe the internet 20 years before the fact, as well as the nasty uses an intrusive government might want to make of it. Well worth reading.

[m berst]

28. it didn't just happen

Everything we are seeing was planned out in advance. The idea that the population just sort of mysteriously went nuts overlooks the well-financed and well-organized effort to intentionally bring our country down by a relatively small group of right wingers in collusion with the Dominionist religious extremists. We say "what the hell happened?" and commiserate with each other. They say "right on schedule, as planned" and congratulate each other.

The importance of this is that the problem is a "who" not a "what." It is a lot easier to fight a "who" than it is to fight a "what." We should know that, because we all know the ridiculousness of a "war on terror." Likewise a "war against conservatism" or "war against fundamentalism" is doomed to failure. Let's go after the ruthless group of men who plotted to steal our country from us.

Things are all screwed up because some people set out to screw them up. When someone breaks into your house, you go after the robber, not "robbery."

[Zorra]

30. Yes, it was obvious.

If I told you almost exactly what was going to happen today, something like 20 years ago, would you have believed me?

Well, don't feel bad, no one else did either.

"Same Old Bar"

Here it is September, and I'm playin' in the same old bar,
See your picture in the paper, and I'm wonderin' just who you are -
Some old politician man, sellin' bombs across the sea
Are you the Pentagon, an oil man, or AT&T?

Well, I'd rather have a good dog, than a brand new car,
and I'd rather have a forest, than a street in my backyard
Hey, Mr. Workingman, you been workin' too long too hard -
Won't you just sit down for awhile, make the bossman show his cards.

They take our money, and they fly to the moon
I hear they're raisin' the cost of living soon
Television propaganda keeps us dancing to the same old tune,
Paying for it with our taxes, which are going up in June.

Now here it is December, still singin' in that same old bar,
Seems like nothin' ever changes, can't change the way things are,
Same old middle class blindness, same old upper class lies
People when you gonna listen, seems like you been hypnotized,
People when you gonna listen, people when you gonna rise.

Copyright 1980, 1986, 1992, 1999.....

True story.