Can one be Pro-choice,and not Pro gay rights?

[mitchtv]

I feel it is the same issue my body, my choice, for that matter my choice to use Marijuana or not also. I am intersted in those pro choice people who are against same sex marriage.

[tk2kewl]

1. anyone who fits that discription is unthinking

[ComerPerro]

2. Honestly, I don't see why not.

Different people draw lines and define issues based on different philosophies.

Maybe some people feel that abortion is a matter of choice but may feel that gay marriage or domestic partnerships are not important.

Or maybe some people have an opposite view.

I really don't see how these two issues are linked... Maybe I am missing something here...

[kimchi]

9. Maybe it can be linked as civil rights?

If you have the right to your body one would think you would have the right to form a legal partnership with another body. That is how I see the connection, anyway.

I do agree that people come in all manner of squishiness that others probably can't figure out. We are filled with dichotomies so it isn't surprising that people could hold two (seemingly to others) contradicting views.

My sister is pro-choice and against gay marriage. She probably would have been for it 9 years ago before she got brainwashed by her husband and his religion. I'm actually very surprised she is still pro-choice--I'm guessing it stems from her medical knowledge, which can't be "erased" because she has to use it every day.

[ComerPerro]

11. Yeah, but rights are framed by all groups to say different things

For example, Republicans used to be big on attacking "Political Correctness". They were so hung up with making sure that bigots had the right to call people niggers, and they actually tried to make it an "individual freedoms" issue.

Or, another example would be the 2nd Amendment. (Please, I don't want to start a gun control debate here, just bear with me). I have a lot of family members who are more concerened with the very unlikely scenario of having all of their hunting rifles taken away by liberals than they are with the very real possiblity of losing all of their First Amendment rights to the Bush Administration.

I mean, it is kind of like saying "How can someone believe in the Separation of Church and State while supporting gun control?" or vice versa...

[kimchi]

12. So they are better at spin so we shouldn't even try?

The examples you stated are both hurtful (or potentially hurtful) to others. You CAN do anything you want, but there are always laws against hurting others. You can call someone a "chink", but you can't harm them, or openly advocate killing them. You can own as many guns as you want if you aren't a homicidal felon, but you can't go around killing everyone.

Likewise, you should have the right to marry any other person....as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Age and mental restrictions are the only limitations I can imagine. So it is very much a civil rights issue between two adults. No one gets harmed, therefore there is no reason to forbid it. (Now Republicans would argue that it harms marriages, and even if they are winning the spin war---they are wrong.)

There is no need to stop telling the truth just because it isn't popular convention or can be twisted. Indeed, we must be more vocal.

[sonicx]

3. more americans are pro-gay rights(civil unions or gay marriage) than...

the number that are pro-choice.

[mairceridwen]

5. do you have some stats?

it's not that i don't believe you, i'm just curious.

though, i tend to be surprised at, percentage-wise, how many people are actually pro-choice (in that the government should have no say esp. first trimester) and then break off in terms of how they actually feel about the act of abortion or whether or not the state should provide funds for abortion for poor women.

[mairceridwen]

4. i've heard of some pretty

loathesome neo-nazi types who are pro-choice in the hopes of eliminating certain *types* (more like pro-abortion) and anti gay rights because, well it's just how it is. for them, really only aryan types should be able to marry and procreate...but it really has nothing to do with ideas of choice and basic autonomy and what not.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

6. How?

How do you reconcile the belief that women should have the right to do what they want with their body including terminating an unwanted pregnancy and not be able to extend this ideal to other men and women who wish to engage in sexual relations with members of the same sex? I don't know how somebody can formulate a consistent principal that allows somebody to have the freedom to have control over their reproductive organs but denies people the freedom to use their own sex organs in having consensual sexual interactions with members of the same sex. Whether or not you believe being a gay is a "choice," shouldn't their "choice" be constitutionally protected (gay people should not be harrassed and they shouldn't be discriminated against) in the same way that women's right to choose whether or not to continue or terminate pregnancy. They both seem to be "freedom of choice" issues to me. I'm interested in hearing your perspective on this issue.

[mitchtv]

13. I am gay, and any anti choice policies are deal breakers with me

as much of a deal breaker as any anti gay law. To me it is a question of the right of your body. IDEALLY, the state should not perform marriages. And all unions would be civil. Likewise I see no interest of the state what gender my partner is.

[max sg]

7. Freedom

The greater issue for me is not particularly what you care to do to your body or what I choose to do to mine. As long as what I am doing does not violate your rights, or anyone elses, then you are free to disagree with my choices, whether you would choose the same for yourself or not. What people don't seem to get is that the minute someone else is denied a right because of someone else's religious beliefs, we are deep trouble. As a gay man, I truthfully couldn't give a damn whether any "approves" of my lifestyle any more than if people "approve" of chairs. But as a American, respect my right to have the life that I choose. If you start deciding that your opinion deserves to be legislated, just wait--you will be surprised when some decides that you are a heathen because you drink, or work on the sabbath, or have an affair outside your marriage, etc. The fundamentalist thinking behind the same sex marriage issue is what is dangerous.

[datasuspect]

8. why shouldn't gays be allowed to marry?

they are human beings and deserve the rights we all have.

can i be pro-choice and against civil rights for EVERYONE?

no.

[mairceridwen]

10. actually...

I'm pro-choice and I don't think the government should recognize any marriage...only civil partnerships between any conseting adults. then the church can have marriage all to itself and those fundiefuckers can be as hateful and as discriminatory as the separation of church and state will allow

[REP]

14. If There Can Be Anti-Choice Pro-Gay Righters, Anything Is Possible....

Having one 'liberal' position does not guarantee a person to be completely sane. There have been many examples on this board to demonstrate that!

[nascarblue]

15. Or even better, pro life, but pro war??

[ecstatic]

16. Depends on what you mean by gay rights

If by "gay rights" you include marriage, then yes, I know many people who fit the pro-choice/anti-gay rights description.