I have a student with a brother is in Iraq. She voted for *

[bluestateguy]

She told me this during the before class banter. The class before she said she was voting for Bush. I did not ask why, as that would not have been the appropriate thing to do in the context of the conversation we were having (I am the instructor, she is a student).

Get this, though, she has complained on multiple occasions about the extended military deployments. Her brother was supposed to come home in August, but his deployment has been extended into early next year. She said she supports the war in Iraq, but seems to find it unfair that deployments are extended and extended and extended.

Yet she voted for the candidate who is least likely to bring her brother home safe and soon.

[mairceridwen]

1. my boyfriend's best friend is in the military

and voted for kerry. knows people on both sides of the fence

some people will never learn

though her logic is all too typical of a bush voter

[eleonora]

2. not to bash Kerry but

he would have done the same (sent more troops)...We're fucked because we got there in the first place thanks to the chimp. We just can't pull out now though. So she voted for the idiot, but in the end we're still fucked, even if Kerry had won.

[4morewars]

5. "We just can't pull out now though."

Why not ?

[Benhurst]

7. For the sake of national honor, we'll have to wait until

they kick us out. That's why. And thousands will die in the meantime. :puke:

[Radical Activist]

16. Great argument. Wasn't that used to stay in Vietnam longer?

I wasn't around but I'm sure I read that in a book somewhere. Wasn't our national honor tarnished even more by us staying in longer than we should have?

[eleonora]

8. huuuh...because it would throw the country into more chaos

Not that it isn't already there, but it won't get better. With no one to police the country, what would become of it?

edit: comma

[Radical Activist]

14. Why can't they police themselves?

they were doing it before we got there. They are just as smart and capable of doing it as we are and maybe more so.

[immoderate]

15. Interesting questions.

How do you know that the Iraqis would be worse of if we left. What would be different about more chaos? Let them take over. They'll blame everything bad on us anyway. Maybe they'll surprise us.

...and...

What national honor? Can the world respect us less?

If we say, "Oops, sorry, gotta go," there may be those who'll respect us more. Will it ever be time to leave?

These questions should be asked.

--IMM

[Radical Activist]

17. What would chaos look like?

Disorder, no infrastructure, looting and death maybe. Oh wait, that's already happening now. We already have the nation in chaos. Maybe if we leave it will get better.

[fortyfeetunder]

25. It will look like Afghanistan when the Taliban took over.

How soon we forget the crap that went on there...

[immoderate]

27. Iraq is not Afghanistan

It is populated with educated middle class people. Having said that, I submit that it hopeless optimism to predict that any length of occupation will ensure a sympathetic government after we leave.

--IMM

[4morewars]

21. Ya think ?

More chaotic than innocent civilians made to wear hoods on their heads while US service men and women take pictures of their naked bodies ? More chaotic than depleted uranium and nerve gas being used on them ? More chaotic than cities filled with civilians having napalm dropped on them? More chaotic than destroying water supplies, hospitals, schools, mosques, because "insurgents" may be there ? More chaotic than unarmed wounded prisoners being shot dead while lying on the ground ? More chaotic than all that ?

Nearly 1300 US soldiers killed, 10,000 gravely wounded, over 100,000 Iraqi civilians killed, maybe 10 times that many wounded.

DO you REALLY believe we need to be there to "police the country" ?
No offense eleonora, but that bullshit didn't cut it for Viet Nam, and it's not a convincing argument to continue this "war."
And by "war" I mean the wholesale slaughter of civilians, supposedly to free them.

[Bucky]

12. Think Kosovo.

Think Chechniya. It's a pretty standard formula, actually. Brutal government holds country together, brutal government is toppled, ethnic violence breaks out, country breaks up, ethnic violence gets a lot worse as new micro countries try to rid themselves of pluralistic character.

Twelve hundred dead American troops is bad. Twenty- to fifty thousand dead Iraqis is very bad. But a sudden pull out taking place without trying to put in some precautions would be far far worse--death tolls in the hundreds of thousands in the middle of a regional powder keg. So, no, you can't "just pull out" for the simple reason that you don't like the war.

The correct solution, of course, was never to have started a pointless imperialist war in the first place. But having started the process, we can't just up and leave anymore than a doctor can walk out in the middle of an operation that he suddenly realizes is unnecessary. You have to sew up the patient first.

All of which is moot, since the 'doctor' for the next four years is hell bent on staying in Iraq no matter what we say.

[mazzarro]

23. It is quite a thing to note that anytime "pulling out" is mentioned as

a solution, people start to come up with gruelsome imaginations of how things will turn out worse for Iraq. These same people fail to take into account that the proponents of pulling out have stated that with the announcement of US intention and date to pull out will be a call for the UN to take over completely. Yes the UN does not have the force nor fire power of the US military, but what it has is the credibiity that will allow it to make candid efforts at putting Iraq back on a path of reconciliation and lessing of the violence that besets the society because of the presence of the invasion forces. And maybe, just maybe Iraq will be spared of the gruelsome situation that these people imagine for the country. I will say further that the UN will probably have a better chance that the current group of colonial rulers.

[Erika]

9. Kerry said additional troops should be put in

to saturate the country and protect our existing troops. Bush was told on invasion that he should have sent more troops. In the meantime Bush's imperialism results can be seen at www.icasualties.org. Global corporatists have never profited more.

[JI7]

and what Kerry said is what everyone including Republicans

are saying we should be doing now.

and who did they accuse of not having any plan ?

Bush's entire plan was "you know where i stand" "i say what i mean" and other stupid empty lines which the media whores repeated.

[realisticphish]

19. agreed

in poli sci, we were discussing the ramifications of of a total withdrawal from iraq, and my professor (who is liberal) put forward a LOT of evidence that certainly points to the fact that we just cant pull out now


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[enigmatic]

3. Nothing shocks me anymore...

in the mind of a W voter. What morans...

[Erika]

4. Why would she support the war in Iraq?

Fifty% of the Iraqi troops have deserted and the vast majority of Iraqi men aren't lifting a finger to "liberate" their country. They hate us and our culture. O'Reilly and Savage both say the Iraqis are the most ungrateful people in the world.

To support an insane cause is insane.

[Vote4Kerry]

6. Remind her that she is not just voting for p(R)esident Bush, but for

Rumsfeld also. Rummie's handling of Iraq has been a disaster. Kerry would have got secretary of defense that knows what they are doing.

[Verve]

11. IMO, some Bush voters are the same people who stay in bad relationships,

dead end jobs and complain to no avail. When given the opportunity for change, they refuse. They're scared of change no matter how bad their abuser gets. To them it's safe to stay with what you know. They fear the unknown.

A very pathetic life they lead.

[Crunchy Frog]

10. As far as my opinion on that goes

your sig line says it all. I feel bad for her brother if he voted for Kerry. If not, :nopity:

Added, I would just patiently remind her that it's what she voted for, and since she voted for it, she should appreciate it and not complain.

[burn the bush]

13. I think if you are a soldier or have close family over there,

that part of you has to keep on believing in what they are doing. Once the soldiers start questioning why they are there, they really can't be the same soldier anymore. Yet, you are still forced to continue to be the fighting soldier. It would be maddening to be forced to kill when you have become enlightened to the truth of why you are there. I think that is why so many of the families and military support bush.
Can u imagine how much harder it would be to have a child over there if you knew that the whole thing was a fucking bush game, compared to at least truly believing that your child is doing whats needed to save those millions of poor iraqi's and protect the united states? It's a psychological trick the brain plays on them to protect them. They have a real need to believe in the war.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. hmm I think you need to get a clue

though what you write is partially correct, I know for a fact that more than half of the personnel already question the mission... and those are the ones willng to go on record.

[burn the bush]

22. oh, I imagine the numbers are growing daily.

I'm just saying that one of the reasons that many of the soldiers and the families believe in the war is because if must fuck you up terribly when you realize the truth. This war has so much crap attached that I'm sure the rate of military that has become "disenfranchised" with the war is huge. I think a lot of them voted for Kerry which I would think is not the norm for the military.

[immoderate]

20. Just like we believed in Vietnam.

Yeah, the soldiers will never figure out what we all know.

--IMM

[LiberalAndProud]

24. She believed the LIE.

Evidently many of our fellow citizens were duped.

[KnowerOfLogic]

26. Yep. Total intellectual disconnect. It's all about "values" now. nt

[tnlefty]

28. Direct her to the nearest recruiter's office. The sooner she is

trained and ready to go the sooner one of those caught up in the long deployments will be allowed to return for a while. I can't think of a better way for her to show her support for the Chump in Chief, his warmongering policies, and the brother she wants to see return home quicker than her signing up to go to do her part to help out.