Horrible Kerry Strategies Being Revealed(C-Span/Newsweek) Your thoughts?

[nascarblue]

OK, I know I'm pretty new on this board, but I busted my a$$ this past year on this election so I'm going to vent something I haven't seen addressed. I'm sure this is probably an uncomfortable and unpopular subject, but it's been eating at me more and more ever since I 1st saw John Kerry in his cycling spandex dayglow get-up, his windsurfing and snowboarding photo-ops, etc...

I'd see these and think to myself, 'WTF is he doing'??? I was completely shocked. :o I thought 'how could these guys be so stupid??' Anyone else think that? :think:

This feeling kept up after the election as well.. when I read a couple of "behind the scenes" in Newsweek and Time on the behind the scenes of the Kerry campaign and how there was constant amateur feuding amongst advisors. How Kerry and Teresa having hissy fits over ridiculous things like hair brushes and cell phones...and again I was shocked at how badly things were run on our side.

All these things were almost too much to handle for me, I can tell you I wanted to scream when I'd see him on his windsurfer, but what I saw on C-Span this weekend took the cake.

I don't know if any of you saw it but on C-Span Sunday night they had two panels reviewing the election and the campaigns that were held Friday at the University of Virginia. One was various Democrats who were still completely baffled when it came to assessing the whole process. Jim Jordan(early Kerry advisor and strategist),Harrison Hickman(Global Strategy Group), and Donna Brazile(strategist)and a couple others. It was a sad,sad sight.

Then on the other panel, it was even worse. They had three journalists from CBS, USA Today, and the Wall St. Journal, a Bush advisor, and Chad Clanton, Kerry's senior advisor. I was appalled and shocked at how out of touch all these people were. All except for the Bush advisor. It was just as surreal as watching Kerry choking with his windsurfing and cycling stints.

They were just not in touch with simple strategies, they were completely dillusional and frankly, not very intelligent. Simple reflective questions they either couldn't answer, or were way out in left field. It seems impossible that tens of millions of dollars were spent and they STILL can't put a finger on all the things they did wrong. They even refused to swallow the mistakes that were layed out in plain english to them by the audience. Donna Brazile was completely out to lunch. Jim Jordan as well.

The worst of all though was Chad Clanton, the senior advisor for the Kerry-Edwards campaign. This guy was a seriously dillusional putz lacking in intelligence! I can't even fathom how 275 million dollars were spent on the left, and the best they could come up with was this guy?! x( Even the audience was laughing and shaking their head in shock at some of the rationalizations he was coming up with.:crazy:

After Kerry first got blasted for his elitist image on the cycling, why did he ignore the bad press and then jump on a snowboard? A windsurfer? Why didn't they learn from their mistakes along the way on the campaign? Why are they still even now in la la land? You have to wonder about a Democratic candidate who goes into a horserace up almost ten points, and by the time of the debates is down 8 points. Anyone else feel that way?

I don't know if any of you have discussed this, but it really disturbs me. It seems illogical that they could consistently drop the ball so many times. All this has made me wonder if the Democrats maybe threw this race. I resist conspiracy theories but this is just too much. Was it some kind of Skull and Bones, Bush/Kerry loyalty oath? In the end, you have to wonder when all of these things happen and the candidate still has $45 million left over of OUR money, if something isn't quite kosher in Boston.:nuke:

[MatrixEscape]

1. I highly advise

that intelligence has, as one of its characteristics, knowing where you are and what to do when you are there.

A very low post count, combined with the message you are relating, is an invitation to suspicion and flames.

Oh, and welcome to DU.

[shraby]

2. I'd welcome but I don't think you'll be here long.

[LittleClarkie]

7. The thought did occur

But eh, it's practice.

When I started out after the election, the best I could do with these types of posts was "Fuck you!" (esp. in response to posts like "The swiftees were right. Kerry was a coward" woo boy, ka-boom!)

I've improved lots since then, I think. I've learned at least to turn it from a short answer to an essay.

[nascarblue]

22. well thanks, I appreciate that you can see the logic(NT)

[nascarblue]

9. Thanks, I thought it might be a bit controversial, but had to vent! Sorry

[nascarblue]

31. you were right and thanks,

[LWolf]

49. Frankly, post count is irrelevant.

Questioning the status quo is an invitation to suspicion no matter where you are; questioning the DU status quo generates suspicion and flames no matter how progressive you may be.

Which is exactly why I really have nothing to say about John Kerry, the election, or the direction the DNC, the DLC, the Democratic Party, or the DU chooses to take. At least, nothing to say that won't be subject to flames or suggestions that, Democrat though I am, the Democrats don't need me and I can just go somewhere else; which is exactly what occurred early on in the general election, when I expressed my democratic pov.

[nolabels]

99. Everything is relevant

DU members with lots of posts and long tenure gives them aspect of being old hands. I like to welcome all the new ones as much as possible myself, they bring perspective outside our circles. Outside the ranting and raving are nutshells of truth that brings things into perspective. It helps us to see what we can effect and or what we can learn from others. The couple of years I have been hanging out here I have come to expect the unexpected and know the worm turns regardless.

Long drawn out threads debating almost everything imaginable with mostly every subject including being a Democrat or a DLC supporter has been here. It would seem that we all, as a whole don't agree on much, but that is also debatable.

Being stuck into that one certain group serves no one but them putting you in that group

[donheld]

3. nascarblue Welcome to DU

:hi:

[nascarblue]

30. thanks Donheld! (NT)

[tngledwebb]

4. IF...

you trust Crime and Newsweak to tell you the trufe, or anything remotely resembling the trufe...you've got to to get out more.

[nascarblue]

10. Yeah I know, but didnt any of you freak out on the dayglow? NT

[natrat]

56. I am a run of the mill avg. intelligence dem.

I trust fewer politicians now including Kerry. Does that make me unwelcome here?

[Kurovski]

105. I freaked when he rode that motor-sickle onto Leno's show.

I was a Deaniac then. I still am.

It's possible that the election was thrown. But I'm waiting till Jan.20 or so before I kickstart my own motor.

I'm thinking, perhaps foolishly, that Kerry actually gives a shit and that we will have some evidence of that in the next few weeks.

[LynnTheDem]

5. Gee that's so progressive.

That's why you post bitching about a man being himself by doing things he actually does and CAN do, and you DON'T bitch about a fake fraud pretending to be just a poor boy who pulled himself up by his own bootstraps to cut wood at his downhome little ranch.

So you're advocating Dems FAKE it? They should pretend to be what they aren't? They should dumb themselves down?

How progressive.

[nascarblue]

11. No I'm not saying that, Im just saying some of the mistakes seemed surreal

[InvisibleBallots]

81. actually, I advocate that Kerry never run again

That way there will be no need to complain about him.

[LittleClarkie]

6. I've discussed it a bit

First thing I note is the $45 mil. Actually, the number is turning out to be $15 mil of primary money he couldn't spend once he was out of the primary season. He's pitching some of that here and there at contests in Lousisana and Washington, and some of it will be going to 2006 candidates.

In addition, he's forming a PAC that will also be giving money to various Dem candidates and promote the issues that he deems important from his campaign, like social security, health care and the environment. He can't use the $15 mil there though. Has to be fresh money.

Second, Bush looked just as dorky in his little cycle hat too. And if these were the ways Kerry had to clear his head, I don't give a damn if he windsurfed, snowboarded or cycled or whatever. I live in Wisconsin. We do all that stuff, and no one calls us elitist. I want a president who knows what he's doing, not some underqualified clod with whom I can have a beer.

Third, I read that Newsweek article and I could swear it was biased as all hell. Sadly, most of these people just didn't like Kerry. Often I didn't think they were being fair.

Over at kerrysupport.com, I've seen an article or two I trust a bit more. One appeared in the Boston Globe and discusses the tail end of the campaign.

Fourth, no it was NOT a Bush/Kerry conspiracy. If you look into Kerry's history, you'd realize he's been after these people for too many years to suddenly have this covert loyalty toward them.

Fifth, if he runs again, I'm going to personally get a stepladder and biff him upside the head if he uses a losing team again. No more Ted Kennedy/ Michael Dukakis folk. He's used people in other local campaigns who worked well with him, and I understand some folks in his primary campaign were better. He NEEDS a better PR department, that's for sure. He was a former prosecutor, the whistleblower for Iran/Contra and BCCI, and an expert on terrorism who was harping on terrorism at the same time the current administration was hung up on missle defense. He was a decent candidate with a lousy team. That's what I think, anyway.

I will admit that he can be a bit stiff. But damned if he wasn't impressive in that last month or so.

Welcome, btw.

[nascarblue]

13. Good post, I didn't care if he wore a dress! I just knew others would!

[bunkerbuster1]

46. Wearing spandex while cycling is NOT equal to wearing a damn dress.

Jesus Christ on a pike, I think most Americans have seen pictures of Lance Armstrong before.

Dumbest. Argument. Ever.

As for the windsurfing "controversy," my only beef about that is that OUR side didn't ridicule the Reich wing for their jealousy over Kerry's athleticism, and point out at every goddamned opportunity that Bush is actually scared of horsies.

beyond that, though, welcome to DU.

[AngryAmish]

61. Spandex while bicycling is undignified

Unless one is racing. I have had this discussion over and over one this board. It looks weird. Kinda like wearing a helmut and shoulder pads to play touch football. It does not flatter the male (and majority of female) form.

I bike quite a lot myself. There is something to be said for the shorts on long (30 mile/3 hr plus) trips. However, one can always put a dignified pair of shorts over the dorky ones.

[bunkerbuster1]

67. Does your religious heritage dictate that you dress "plain?"

j/k. (I've some plain people in my ancestry, myself.)

I just can't believe we're peeing on JFK for his choice in cycling attire. I run in fairly modest shorts and a sleeveless T when it's hot. Maybe I'd look better with less coverage (a singlet and shorter shorts) or with more (regular T and baggy shorts) but that's what I wear because that's what I'm comfortable in.

It's not a hella lot to assume that's what motivated JFK, is it?

[AngryAmish]

70. I am not peeing on JFK

Nor am I really Amish (the handle is a tribute thing).

It is just that spandex is really strange looking. And if one is in a campaign, one will not lose a vote for dressing in a dignified manner. But one will be mocked by your enemies if one dresses in spandex. An individual may say "I do X all the time. What is wrong with it?" but all thwat shows is one's blind spots.

[bunkerbuster1]

72. You gotta fight for your right to spannnnnnn-dex!

understand your point, but damn, we should hear stuff like "he looks so fey windsurfing" and "looky that faggy spandex" as a call to arms.

Look, if I had a do-over, JFK would've gone nuclear on Chimpy about his pre-9/11 behavior AND fired rhetorical 120mm mortars at the Shit Floaters, but we gotta work with what we've got, and we've got to stop fretting that this or that little bit of packaging is what's going to sink our campaign.

if that makes any sense.

[AngryAmish]

73. Oh I agree about the packaging part

Did it swing the election? NO.

I just have a personal bugaboo about cycling gear. My reaction to this says a lot more about me than Kerry.

But, Jeez, spandex?!?

[s-cubed]

76. I am a bicyclist,

and spandex is the most suitable kind of clothing for bike riding, if you plan to do something more than ride around the block. It is the most comfortable, as the shorts are padded, the fabrics are designed to wick moisture, and floppy clothing catches the wind.

As for it being weird, I doubt you could find an American who hadn't seen at least pictures of Lance (look how popular his yellow bracelets are), or their own neighbors wearing spandex. Now, I'll admit I've seen a few bodies that I wish were better covered, but that is another issue.

Last summer, my husband joined thousands of other spandex-clad bicyclists for the 23rd (I think) RAGBRAI - a ride across Iowa. The towns in the stae vie for the privilege of hosting the event. Very middle American, and other states, like Ohio have similar ones.

So, don't jump on Kerry for his spandex or windsurfing. Personally, I thought the pictures were a lot better than the ones of Poppy in his speedboat.

[charlie]

88. Nevermind Lance

Even ol' GeeDub's been photographed running in spandex. There's one where he's trying to snatch up Barney and he looks like a prancing elf, with his crotch-sock riding halfway down to his knees.

[AngryAmish]

93. I, too am a cyclist

and attitudes like yours make me refrain from hanging out with most other cyclists. Oh, Lance Armstrong looked like a knob - but he at least had an excuse- he was racing. I have always wanted to do RAGBRAI, but, alas, I will not because it will cause me to hang out with thousands of people who wear spandex and thus have no sense of personal dignity.

One more time, when going on a ride more than 30 miles bicycle shorts make some sense because of the padding and chafing factor. But they can be covered with a tasteful pair of shorts.

Nobody wants to see my spandex clad body and I can only hope that others will have the decency to shield me from theirs.

[Pachamama]

101. My husband looks hot in Spandex Biking Shorts! Not "Undignified"

At 42, he's a in shape Triathlete with a 6 pack, great ass, muscular legs and rock solid....

He bikes to work...when he leaves or comes home at night in those shorts, if it wasn't for taking care of the Pachababies and making meals, I'd jump him and undress him from those shorts in a heartbeat...

What a sad post on your part....I'm sorry you don't feel your body can look good in them, or that seems to be the aspect to you (how they look) but speak for yourself. And think of them not as their purpose as being body enhancing, but rather "practical"...I think when my husband, or John Kerry put on a pair of biking shorts, its for their purpose and practicallity, not how they look....But if they happen to be blessed (like my husband) with an athletic body to boot, its a bonus....

[Swamp Rat]

104. Spandex looks beautiful on humans, fat or skinny, especially when it shows

off the genitalia and rolls of body fat. Beautiful AND dignified. :P

[AngryAmish]

113. I don't even know where to start with this

[BiggJawn]

118. so quit while you're behind...

[PatriotGames]

115. Wa-wa-what???

[BiggJawn]

117. If it takes you 3 hours to cover 30 miles...

You ain't much of a biker. But then, you can't go very fast on the park trails, can you?

And just what exactly are these "dignified" shorts I'm supposed to wear over my Lycra? I ain't out there to give frustrated Mr. Blackwell wanna-bees like you a "visually pleasing" experience, I'm out there working on losing my gut.

Oh tell me, Styleman, tell me....

"undignified"...What a fucking LAUGH!

There's NOTHING "dignified" looking about a 47-y-o fat man on a bicycle no matter WHAT he's wearing!

[nascarblue]

18. Yeah, I agreed the Newsweek was kind of bogus, especially after I read...

...the bush Newsweek article in the same issue. Hmmm... maybe they just bashed him cuz he lost? It would have been cool to see what they would write if Bush lost. Being theyre all obidient little lap dogs now.

Hey since all of you are in attack dog mode on me right now and I got your attention, do any of you know if there is a good anti Ann Coulter site? I tried to find one and couldnt! Theres a few Micheal Moore bash sites, but there seems to be nothing as far as anti Coulter, anti Hannity.

PS I know about media matters.

[bunkerbuster1]

69. There was the Anti Coulter site

but it's no longer updated.
Still a good resource, though:

http://users.rcn.com/skutsch/anticoulter/

I'd like to say it speaks volumes that our side doesn't waste its time demonizing one person a la the Reich wing and Moore... but that'd be dishonest. Frankly, simple-minded ridicule works spendidly. A dirty job but someone's gotta do it (to them).

[Yuugal]

75. 15 million?

"""First thing I note is the $45 mil. Actually, the number is turning out to be $15 mil of primary money he couldn't spend once he was out of the primary season. """"

So basically I shouldn't be mad at Kerry for screwing up and having a lot of money left over after the election, I should be mad at Kerry for screwing up before the convention? My problem with this argument was that when we were all screaming in august that Kerry needed to spend big for ads to counter the swift boat liar scam, we were told he had to wait until after the primary to start spending his election cash. Wasn't there even a call to move the convention forward? Now we are being told he should have spent it earlier because its illegal to spend the funds after the convention? Something isn't adding up right here.

[yardwork]

77. This is a good post! You sum up the problems with these "reports"

but also point to the legitimate problems with the Kerry campaign.

I agree that the coverage was massively biased against Kerry by all media throughout the entire process, but that doesn't mean that Kerry's advisors are off the hook.

I wasn't bothered by the sports photos as much as I was bothered by the campaign's lack of strength and focus. They were too polite. Too moderate. Held back too much on criticism. The Kerry campaign should have gone way negative, imo, in revealing the truth about bushco and its lies.

The Kerry campaign acted like this was a gentleman's debate. They acted like they thought the bush campaign would fight fair. Ha!

It's sad to criticize a candidate for being "too nice" but when we're fighting an evil chimp, it is possible to be too nice, and Kerry was too nice.

Go ahead, flame me. I've got a tough skin.

[FubarFly]

94. No flames here.

I agree with you.

I know Bush is a corrupt, fanatical, bastard.

You know Bush is a corrupt, fanatical bastard.

Why didn't mainstream America?

We were way too polite.

Going negative doesn't mean being dishonest, especially when the truth in this case was overwhelmingly negative.

[muse]

8. Lemme get this straight. You are Shocked! Baffled! Appalled! Disturbed!

You refer to the Democrats almost in a third person "they" type of reference. Hmmm. Here at DU, we tend to kind of talk about Democrats as "we" and "us". It jumps out like that in our posts. It doesn't in yours.

I'm suspicious, but welcome to DU anyway!

This is pretty much old stuff to us. We've kind of moved on. We are sort of in the throes of figuring out how to count all of those legitimate vote Kerry and Edwards got so that they can be declared the winners or else move on and work on election reform for 2006. We know we have some positive momentum we need to keep moving forward and some things we need to work on, but I know I for one am not at the shocked, baffled, appalled and disturbed stage nor am I thinking our candidates worked with dillusional, out to lunch, in la la land or crazy advisors. Maybe that's just me.

[nascarblue]

14. Suspicious?? LOL... Go to my blog and check me out. Im glad..

You guys are tough on trolls, those freepers really get around. They have totally taken over the Air America blogs. ANyways, my blog is http://nascarblue.blogspot.com

[m berst]

83. I see....

A blue website.... hmmmmmmm.... that sure is suspicious right there. ;)

[shance]

95. Great blog Nascar.

Welcome***

[Andromeda]

100. My husband is a Nascar fan.

I should say he crams as many races into a weekend as he can and tapes others.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[nascarblue]

20. Well, Im on about four lists for Ohio. There seems to be so many sites

...So I just stick to the Cobb site and the recountohio site.

[m berst]

82. a little unfair maybe

There is a thread here with plenty of long time DU members making the same criticisms of the party leadership as the op did.

On the "we" and the "they" I don't have a problem with that at all. A new person to a group who says "we" is more odd in my view. I have been a Democrat for 40 years and I am careful not to indiscriminately use "we" since I don't speak for all Democrats.

Welcome to DU nascarblue. There are many here who are a looooong way from being past discussing the problems with the recent campaign.

I am Shocked! Baffled! Appalled! Disturbed! myself about the party's performance.

[Skittles]

12. so let me see if I understand

Bush pretends he is a cowboy and he doesn't even know how to ride a horse - that's OK. But showing Kerry participating in an activity he truly excels at is bad. Shows how completely the dumbing down of America is working.

[nascarblue]

16. come on! Dont put words in my mouth. I HATE BUSH. GO TO MY BLOG

Is this what you guys do? Argue amongst yourselves? Can you honestly say you didnt get upset at some of the blunders Kerry did along the way? The stalling on the Swifts? the non stance on the war? Im just airing something that everyone seems to NOt want to talk about. I know amongst my friends, and amongst a bunch of us in Moveon, we all were kind of bummed on the constant windsurf/dayglow/bicylce shorts thing. Again, Not cuz I give a $hit, but because I knew it would affect some swing staters who might be voting for Bush on his nascar-pseudomacho Conneticut cowboy image. Jesus, will you guys chill?

[Skittles]

38. no, they did not upset me because I'm not an idiot

but I can see your point about how idiots can get upset and be completely fooled by the media. THAT was Kerry's biggest mistake - he couldn't pander to idiocy the way a true idiot - like Bush - does naturally.

And by the way, I wasn't putting words in YOUR mouth - I was putting them in the minds of the average FOX viewer

[nascarblue]

41. I' was just replying to whoever said I was slamming all DEms, I wasn't..

It was two panels of 5. Someone had accused me of being a slimy repug and saying I slammed all Dems on the panel. There was actually two Dems that were right on, it was just the two Kerry advisors were deluded hand wringers. Thats all I was saying. But hey, thanks.

Check this guy out, he noticed the same thing...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2791160&mesg_id=2791160&page=

[saracat]

15. True that you don't seem on the right board.

Donna Brazile didn't work for the Kerry Campaign and the other two were fired early on. As for Chad , don't know . I have never heard of him so I doubt he was that inflential. It sounds like a very stupid show based on nothing but talking heads.

[nascarblue]

17. I never said Donna worked for him. Just check out the episode and ..

..see for yourself

[glarius]

19. How odd...the only one you didn't think was a dummie was the Bush advisor

Hmmmmmmmmm....verrrry interesting.....

[nascarblue]

21. Just watch the C Span deal. Jesus, my first night and you guys are...

..all over me. I'm 40 years old and I worked my ASS off on this election for Kerry. I was for Dean at first, but I HATE dubya. YOu can ask me about anything and I probably know. dahrjamahl, juan cole, mike malloy, globalresearch, democracynow. I cant believe I have to prove myself to you guys just because I said I was bummed about the strategists and Kerrys photo ops! You guys are brutal.

A guy I met last month on the randi rhodes message board told me that he didnt know if he liked this board. I thought it this was the "main" Dem board, but seems like you can't voice anything on here that might warrant some thought other than Ohio??

[nascarblue]

25. Heres some more proof for you skeptics...

Im tripping on you guys, especially the Canuck who posted. My relatives live in Montreal...

Anyways I just cut and paste this out of my inbox for you skeptics...Its my reply for the one of the Ohio causes Ive taken up....


Dear :

On November , you joined over five thousand contributors
and six hundred (so far) volunteers who stepped forward to
help our campaign stand up with millions of other across the
country. We are voters across the political spectrum: Greens,
Libertarians, Independents, Kucinich-Dean-Kerry Democrats and
Republicans ready to restore integrity to our voting system.
We insist that the legitimacy of representative government be
defended from the flagrant threats to the public's confidence
that this and the previous election have engendered.

Below, I want to share with you news of our progress toward
ensuring a complete count of the votes in the Ohio election.

But first let me cover a couple of other quick topics.

I write first to thank you and welcome your active participation
in this campaign to ensure that every vote is counted and
to instigate a grass-roots movement that can restore public
confidence in electoral democracy. We need voter verified paper
ballots and open source election software, publicly financed
elections, proportional representation and instant run-off
voting, open access to the ballot, the enforcement and extension
of the Voting Right Act and non-partisan election officials.

In this letter we want to (1) update you on recent developments
and our plans for the recount effort, (2) invite you to subscribe
to new list serves designed to keep you in the loop or even
actively engaged as we move this campaign forward, (3) ask folks who
are willing to fill some critical volunteer roles, (4) ask you to
spread the word about our efforts and (5) inform you that unless
you confirm your subscription invitations described below,
you will not see any further email from us again until we have
a final report to share with you after Congress certifies the
election on January 6th.

We hope that everyone who has contributed or volunteered will
join our new [e-mail] list. This is
a low-traffic read-only list where our press secretary and
campaign manager will share with you breaking news, by, about
and of interest to those who support this recount campaign.

And we are inviting as well, everyone who has volunteered
to please confirm your invitation to subscribe to two
other lists:
-- [e-mail] is a low-traffic, read
only list used by our campaign staff to communicate volunteer
opportunities on this recount campaign to those engaged in
the work;
-- [e-mail] is a discussion list for
volunteers actively engaged in this campaign, either right
there in California or on the ground in Ohio and what ever
other states this campaign may eventually lead us.

While we appreciate your financial support and could not proceed
without it, the truth is that a recount without our campaign
providing independent oversight of the process will not provide
meaningful feedback on the problems or do much to improve
public confidence in the system or in this year's result.

[Xenus Sister]

32. You're late to the party. We've been through all this. BLAME THE MEDIA!

Kerry participating in sports he enjoys wasn't a problem. The media ganging up on him to make it look stupid, aided by knuckle-draggers who think it does look stupid, were problems.

Right now, Ohio (and Florida and several other states) are problems. Why shouldn't people talk about it?

[JI7]

23. Gore was attacked for not being sure of who he is

and trying to be something he isn't.

Kerry goes out and is himself. and the sports he is involved in are not elitist. i have many friends who do water/snow sports and i was getting ready to arrange a ski thing with friends a while ago. and none of us are rich.

golf is much more elitist with their huge fees and limitations in access to who gets into many of their clubs. yet Kerry doesn't play golf. kerry plays a sport that is much more open, especially open to women unlike golf. and they claim kerry is elitist ?

[SammyWinstonJack]

63. Damned if you do and Damned if you don't

:shrug: Kerry was gonna get slammed no matter what he did with regard to his athleticism. But the chimp who try to mimicked Kerry's bike riding, was elevated to a Lance Armstrong level, even while falling off his bike. :eyes:

[Piperay]

24. Check Out his Blog...

http://nascarblue.blogspot.com he looks OK!

WELCOME TO DU nascarblue! :hi:

[nascarblue]

27. Phew,... THANKS!!! YOu guys are tough! Heres my other blogs...

http://nascarblue.blogspot.com
http://stupidrednecks.blogspot.com
http://iraqdiary.blogspot.com

[nascarblue]

37. Thanks Piperay...NT

[JI7]

26. Democrats repeating right wing talking points

they go after Kerry for his expensive hairstyles at some high end
"french" salon , yet the motherfuckers say nothing about the chimpanzee getting his hair cut from some expensive foreign middle eastern lady. at least kerry has the hair to want to spend on that and the results show the money was worth it.

the chimpanzee claims to be some fucking cowboy, he brought his filthy ranch just a few years ago and that clearing and working on the fucking ranch is a fucking photop. and he is the only "cowboy" i know of how is afraid of horses. for him being a cowboy is owning expensive boots that most true cowboys could never afford. yet the whores never talk about that.

[nascarblue]

28. I call him the "Conneticut cowboy"....check this out....

photo I found and posted on my blog... I wrote a note to you non believers in the "comments" under the jihad freeway photo. Leave a comment on....
http://iraqdiary.blogspot.com/2004/12/blog-post.html

[loyalsister]

29. I haven't seen it

but I totally get what you're saying. I know a lot of people who voted against their self interest because Kerry did not effectively relate to them.
Obama commented that softball might have been a better choice than windsurfing. I agree. It seems that Kerry's downtime was spent doing things by himself. So many of the sports were solitary.
He did not come across as a guy who you could tell your troubles to and who would work to fix them. At the most elementary level, people want to believe that this is something that is remotely possible. Clinton had that quality.
In a bizarre, unfortunate, misleading way, Bush has that quality. It's all in his language and mannerisms. The dumbing down of his language and informality of his mannerisms have convinced people not only that he is one of them, but that he is sitting in the living room with them sometimes.
One reason that legislators have had little success as presidential candidates is that they have to follow very specific rules for a lot of the year and conduct themselves very formally.
Many people aren't comfortable with it.
It would be nice if it were easier and everyone agreed with us about this guy, but the fact is many people voted against their interest because they couldn't understand where he was coming from.
Bush pulled off the ultimate con. He ran as a shell populist.
IMO Kerry should have found a way to run as a substance populist.

[nascarblue]

34. Even Maureen Dowd said on Bill Mahre he needed a pic w/ a gun...

[JI7]

35. there are many pics of him playing baseball, football soccer etc

he did that more than the water/snow sports.

in fact the water/snow sports was only like 2 or 3 times.

[loyalsister]

98. Please

The fact remains, he ran a yuppie campaign that few below upper middle class could relate to. People who fall in the lower economic classes never heard anything from him that said "I'm talking to you, and I understand your issues."
The sporting bullshit was just another me tooism, anyway. Bush is a tough guy, I'm a tough guy too. I'm an athlete, by God! It made me cringe everytime he pulled a macho man stunt.

[tngledwebb]

39. It's not a really a question of 'relating' to Kerry , now is it ?

It's about how to steal elections.

Remember this- the evil psychopathic s**t-head bastards who've taken over this country have one M.0.: to lie, cheat and steal six ways 'til Sunday, because they know even in dumbed down to the ground 21st century America, most of us still have common sense and share some vestige of a common humanity.
Knowing that a 2 million plus majority was going to vote for Kerry, or any Dem at all, in 2004, they spent four years planning to prevent democracy from ever returning to this country.
They may even think they have succeeded at this point, but they will soon be proven wrong.

And also remember this - MSM, such as Slime/Newspeak, should NOT be trusted, unless you need to know exactly what the illegal BushCo Govt wants you to know.

[billie_]

106. indeed, I agree tngledwebb :) n/t

[jmowreader]

55. The biggest reason legislators lose presidential elections

is that legislators have easily-malleable records.

The average citizen doesn't realize what a bill is. Many of them think a bill is about one thing--a "bill about abortion" would be three sheets of paper stapled together--a cover sheet, a page with the text of the abortion legislation and a blank sheet in the back. Not so. Legislators will put everything including rules on kitchen sinks in bills for many reasons. If you look at a defense appropriations bill, you'll see shit that has nothing to do with the defense department in it. Congress knows that the president must sign the defense appropriations bill, so they load it up with all the things they know he'd never sign otherwise.

Let's pick out a legislator at random...oh...Mike McIntyre. If NC 7's elected DINO voted yea on a bill to re-roof every school in America that also contained a paragraph about pistol registration, nay on a bill to allow dumping garbage in the Atlantic Ocean that also contained a paragraph allowing teacher-led school prayer, and yea on a highway bill that also contained a paragraph authorizing $5 million to distribute condoms in schools, Democrats would say Mike McIntyre voted to maintain schools, keep coastal communities from turning the ocean into a garbage dump and build more and better roads. Republicans would call him a gun-grabber who hates Jesus and wants your children to have sex.

I say we never, ever run a legislator again.

[Blue_Tires]

80. good points

the process by which bills (and pork) become law is disgraceful

[JI7]

33. remember that shit about Kerry's orange tan before the debates ?

all the right wing whores including that disgusting bitch lynne cheney made a joke about it, and many democrats picked up on it also including on DU. everyone worry or attacking kerry for it, and all based on a photoshopped pic of Kerry drudge put on his site.

of course during the debates we saw Kerry looked like he always does and didn't have any orange tan everyone talked about. in fact Bush was the one who was actually the orange color.

but it's just an example of how a lot of this shit is passed on and how democrats repeat it.

[nascarblue]

36. Thats exactly what I mean! It didnt bother me at all, but..

I knew the mouth breathers would attack him for it. And I had a feeling it would look bad to alot of the south and midwest. Thats all Ive been trying to say. All those things combined, had me perplexed. I would think to myself, why arent his advisors telling him to stop? I know I wasnt the only one who felt that way. I talked to a few people about it, I just never posted it online before. Then I watched both of those C span UAV panels today and got kinda pissed. Some of the panelists seemed clueless. And a few of you jumped all over me like I was some secret freeper. I was just as perturbed at the journalists. CBS was pandering to the Bush campaign guy. The USA today journalist seemed out to lunch as well. Actually there were two democrats on the panel who were right on. One was Rep.B Carson out of Dakota.

[Lerkfish]

52. well, on a scale of windsurfing to torture and genocide...

I'd say I'm more worried about the current Bush fascist regime than whether Kerry windsurfs...oh, and that 30 years of enviromental protections are evaporated...OH! and fraudulent elections....OH! and the neocon agenda to take over the world...and OH! the fact that Bush lied to us about Iraq...

jeez...I guess I'm having a little trouble getting worked up about your pet issue, there.

but hey, here's one for you...aren't you upset at the thought of Hillary running in 2008? doesn't that just frost your cheerios? Just who does she think she is??!!!

And that Michael Moore guy! isn't he THE WORST!??

discuss.

[skypilot]

62. I've read your posts and tried to understand...

...your point here but it sounds a bit silly to me. If Kerry and his advisors had to stop and wonder how his every move and utterance would be perceived by the "mouth breathers" they'd never leave campaign headquarters--or get out of bed in the morning. Doing everything with one eye glommmed on the Republican voter sounds like a prescription for: 1.)Losing Democratic voters 2.)Driving yourself insane.

[nascarblue]

40. Seems others feel the same....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2791160&mesg_id=2791160&page=

[lateo]

42. Kerry ran a shitty campaign...

It almost seemed like he wanted to lose. And then when he "did" he just gave up without firing a shot.

Kerry is a shitbag who deserted us. I can't believe he wants to run again in '08.

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. Well, frankly, if he were sponsoring a car in the nascar, I'd

question him myself, since Dixiecrats are not my favorite kind of Dems. Not that I'm completely closed-minded on the subject since Graham sponsored a car and I would have voted for him.

And that's the point. The fact that Kerry went wind-surfing (which he did because he was trying to appeal to the younger set as well as show he's more physically fit than Bush) and the fact that it bothered you says more about YOUR regional blinders, than his.

A president has to appeal to EVERYONE in the country, and quite frankly, we as Americans have to come out of our provincial worlds or you'll go round and round until the fumes kill your brain cells.

[JNelson6563]

44. U R right, our "strategists" suck!

You couldn't be more right about how weak our strategists are, which explains why our strategies are so lame.

We let the Rethugs frame the debate, we capitulate and wonder why people think we are weak. Then, when we continue our shameful losing streak so many are busy running around pointing fingers in every direction but back at ourselves. Yes, we need to be more like Rethugs, we need to cater to the fundies, we need to......blah, blah, blah.

We need to grow some spine and start kicking ass and taking names. Never mind the hand-wringing and "suspicions" going on here. As lame as it is it's a coping mechanism. When Rethugs lose they get more organized and more determined. When we lose we go to therapy and blame everybody else.

Ugh.

Welcome to DU.

Julie

[JHB]

45. Bash bad "leadership", not the messenger!

Despite the jaundiced reception you've gotten from some folks, you bring up something which really needs to be addressed: the sad shape of the leadership of the party at the national level, both by elected office holders and high-level apparatchiks within the party itself. It seems like nobody knows how to fight (nor, apparently, how to keep their mouth shut, which is a related problem).

[DemonFighterLives]

47. I see exactly what you are saying

Thanks for sticking around even with our defensive DU'ers kicking you in the pants. Kerry's and the other dem strategists were terrible. They kept chasing the elusive centrists and did nothing about electronic voting or the 2000 fiasco.
They never came out swinging at B*sh. They could have had him on AWOL, Kenny Boy, shoddy investigation of 911 or many other things. Instead we had to listen to the swifties 24/7.

I don't have a problem with his extra curricular activities, but bagging the big goose looked a little photo-opish. Shoot, he should've challenged Dubbie to a horse riding contest.

[Neecy]

48. agreed

...and they should have come out swinging at our convention, and never stopped relentlessly attacking Bush until election day.

The 'feel-good' convention was ridiculous when running against the worst president in modern history. It should have been like a criminal prosecution where we built our case each evening. Instead, we got the media chiding Rev. Al for negativity and 'going over his time'. What pablum! If we can't get tough on Bush, how tough will we be on our perceived (and largely make-believe) "enemies"?

Having the bunny photo come out just prior to our convention was probably not helpful, either.

[Lorien]

90. I agree. A lot of blind Dem loyalty isn't fixing the problem

and their IS a problem. It's not just the media or stolen elections, it's the inability of the Dem leadership to sell a message or inspire the base.The repugs turned their party around in 1994, and it's past time that we did the same. HAD the base been truly inspired, there WOULD have been marches like those seen in the Ukraine after our elections. As it was, too many of us (myself included) were passionately ABB, but not passionately pro Kerry (despite our best efforts to love the guy).

The repugs took a turn to the hard right in '94; they STOOD for something, and that's all a lot of people needed. "Strong and wrong", etc. The Dem leadership today believes that salvation can be found in the mushy middle or the soft right. It won't happen, hasn't happened, and has never happened in uncertain times that demand certainty in our candidates.

Yes, I've wondered in their was some sick "skull and bones" pact involved. Maybe my tinfoil was wrapped too tightly. Now I just see our leadership for what they are; incompetent boobs.Time to clean house and seek a fresh start; it's that, or fade into obscurity with more of the same.

[Tinoire]

50. Welcome to DU Nascarblue

:toast:

You're a mighty brave person.

The saddest thing in all of this is that the Kerry strategists, the apologists, the DLC and the DNC still don't get it. If they keep going like this, they're going to turn around and not have a party left. In this information age, people are no longer accepting any old answer or any old targetted speech. Let's hope the DNC wakes up before they take down the entire ship!

[leesa]

51. How come you are falling for the RW propaganda??

There is nothing wrong with him windsurfing, your teevee just told you there was something wrong with it and you fell for it. You will continue spouting how Kerry ran a bad campaign. Nonsense. He did very well. You don't bring in 15000-30000 people to rallies if you've done a bad job. STOP believing the RW media!

[Lerkfish]

53. windsurfing is hard work.

ever try it? damn, its hard. i've actually tried it...on my honeymoon. I never stood more than 5 seconds before getting blasted off.

but I guess its better to attack someone who can do something difficult than someone who thinks being president is hard work.

[billie_]

107. YEP and he didn't lose, they cheated, period! stolen again 2004 n/t

[vol5516]

54. totally agree!!!

good post, nascarblue!!!

[Lerkfish]

58. keep up with those right wing talking points and we'll cheer you on!

at least until we boost our post counts.

:toast:

[On the Road]

57. Hi NASCAR Blue!

I did not see the CSPAN program, but frankly, nothing that you've said surprises me. There seems to be an elite subculture at the upper levels of the Democratic party that is out of touch. To win the next presidential election, there have to be different advisers and a different approach. It has to be much more in touch with the middle class outside of urban areas.

It also doesn't surprise me that the Bush adviser was more on the ball. The Republicans have awful policies but skilled advisor's. The Democrats have infinitely better policies but often have poor strategists. This election shows which is more important in gaining office.

There is nothing in your post, or any of your replies, which smacks of being a closet right-winger. It's actually against the rules to make those accusations, and you should not have had that kind of welcome here or had to prove your credentials. I hope you stick around. It should be clear to everyone by now that some serious constructive criticism is in order.

[BurtWorm]

59. Snowboarding is elitist? Then why are snowboarders so scraggly?

The line on whether cycling or snowboarding or windsurfing are "elitist" is straight out of the Karl Rove play book. You've bought it hook, line and stinker. ;)

[shrike]

60. It's either the stupidity of the public or the venality of the media

Or both.

No one talked about the issues. Hell, no one talked about the war. They DID talk about Kerry's "tan," his alleged botox treatments, his funky orange biking costume (the man's in terrific shape, by the way), Booosh's "charm," "folksiness," "ability to connect with ordinary Americans (barf)" ... you get my drift.

Bush voters will get theirs, but unfortunately, the Media will not. They will sail along on their yachts, champagne glasses in hand, as they talk about how great their lives are.

[datasuspect]

64. spandex, windsurfing, and snowboarding?

wtf?

is this for real?

i might as well go watch fucking the conservative media on t.v.

[datasuspect]

65. photo ops?

this thread is bullshit . . .

i'll take the spandex snowboarding windsurfer please.

[SammyWinstonJack]

68. Heh!

What you mean you don't want the dress up fake phony windshield cowboy? :evilgrin:

[NurseLefty]

96. Eeeww - did you have to post these?

I think I'm gonna be sick...
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

Anyway, to chime in on this - people need to allow debate here. Let's put the democratic in DU's name to use.

The only way we can sort out who we are is to reflect, and do so HONESTLY. We need to understand our shortcomings if we are want to improve.

Something we really, really need to understand is that republicans are driven by power, not principle (even though they claim otherwise).
They will stop at nothing to denigrate and weaken their opponents.
It is war, and the Dems need to implement strategy as if it is a war.
Dems have a knack of giving republicans ammo. Clinton did this ROYALLY by succumbing to a sexual urge. He KNEW that they were after him for any little thing, and what did he do? Something that got him impeached that he will never live down.
Kerry should have known that The Enemy was on his tail for anything that could have been made into a "Dukakis in a tank" moment. Do all that fun stuff all you want - just don't call the press out for it!

I expect we'll be hashing over this and other election postmortems for a very, very long time.

[IndyPriest]

66. If fraud is proven, what would you say?

Nascar, I completely understand your feelings. But the frame means everything. All these questions of strategy seem relevant because Kerry has been framed as the "loser." BUT, what if he didn't lose? Seriously. How would he LOOK to you if he were planning his inauguration speech right now?

The question of fraud is extremely important for a lot of reasons. But among them is that it has framed not just Kerry but the country. Progressives have been left scrambling to understand and relate to a country that has SUPPOSEDLY taken a hard right turn. But what if the country HASN'T taken such a turn?

[Sterling]

71. My thoughts? Skull and Bones?

Makes perfect sense in hindsight. Hell foresight for that matter. Although that kind of talk will get you banned during an election cycle.

[TeacherCreature]

74. Thanks for this very brave post.

And remember, don't let the bots bite.

It seems that even now, any Kriticism of the Kery Kampaign is seen by some here as treason or something.

I thought the campaign was very uneven, with the first debate performance being the only really good moment for our sde.

Maybe I'm a freeper-troll too.

[InvisibleBallots]

78. the windsurfing was unforgivable

We're trying to win an election here, the GOP is painting Kerry as an elitist (he is, like Bush) and so Kerry goes windsurfing and all around acting like the blue blood he is.

I really hope he doesn't think he's running in 2008.

[BurtWorm]

79. "Unforgiveable"

Shocking that anyone would even THINK of surfing the wind! What horrors will Democrats think of next!

[billie_]

108. HA HA...shoes? dental hygiene?! n/t

[InvisibleBallots]

112. what will they think of next? What difference does it make?

Kerry will have plenty of time to windsurf, snowboard, and hobnob with Republicans at DC insider parties.

[goddess40]

86. Windsurfing not elitist

Here in Wisconsin a lot of people windsurf and they are not wealthy. Actually, the only expense is buying the board. And we also snow board. The press is to blame for the "elitist" tag. They should have pointed out how much more athletic Kerry was than Bush. And bush also cycled so why was it wrong for Kerry to do the same thing?

[m berst]

84. I see your mistake now

Your title-

"Horrible Kerry Strategies Being Revealed(C-Span/Newsweek) Your thoughts?"

It should be something more like "OMG! Did you hear what Tweety said???!!"

Seriously, there is a lot of loyalty to personalities, so Kerry in the title will bother people. A title of "Horrible revelations about Clark" would have bugged me probably, and you don't even want to think about using the name of a certain governor from New England (who should have been the nominee, yes, I know)in a title.

And then "your thoughts?" - be careful what you wish for, you might get it. :)

And then Spandex.... nascar.... Newsweek - all no-no's.

You can download the full DU etiquette manual somewhere IIRC. It is big - 28MB I think.

on edit - I just read the rest of this thread. Unbelievable the "closet Republican" baiting and taunting. Barely within the letter of the law at DU, but a pretty blatant violation of the spirit of the law. But principles don't count when we are defending our guy I guess. And don't talk to us about moral values! No, nothing wrong with the Kerry campaign, and anyone who says so... well you know wink wink.

[Geek_Girl]

85. I actually agree with some of your points

I like John Kerry but he had a poor team that didn't seem to know what the crap they were doing. Stephanie Cutter was in charge of the rapid media response and I have to say she did a piss poor job. After the Swift Boat fiasco they seemed to get some better folks, like Lockhart, on the team and it seems like they were starting to turn things around but it was too late. As far as the Windsurfing and Bicycling I think they were trying to appeal to young voters. It seemed the whole election for the dems was GOTV mainly aimed at younger voters. Which to be quite frank Dems should not be targeting one group of people over another. Our message is an inclusive message that effects every American, and our political strategy should reflect that.

[underpants]

87. And W did NOTHING wrong? This is typical post election poo

The faults of the "loser" are exaggerated and the winner did nothing wrong. If the results had been the other way around this would have been about how inflexible and robotic the Bush campaign was.

[Lorien]

89. The poster didn't state that * did nothing wrong n/t

[MODemocrat]

91. There were many mistakes made granted

but, I take comfort in the fact that John Kerry knows how to balance a bicycle, hasn't fallen off a sedgeway; hasn't cracked his head on the side of an airplane as he's exiting; he doesn't pick his nose, nor has his shirt tail been seen hanging out of his open trouser fly.

John Kerry is capable of speaking without putting his foot in his mouth, and he doesn't try to act as if he came up through the ranks the hard way without the backing of a super rich family. Kerry is a man of true compassion for his fellowmen.

The most important of all is that Kerry served in Vietnam twice, and could probably have used the influecne of his wealthy family to stay stateside. These are the important things, not, the labels the bought and paid for media talk about. John Kerry is a true statesman, something Bush will never comprehend.


:thumbsup: :headbang:

[TeacherCreature]

92. He should have won, obviously--but the campaign was mismanaged

At a numer of key points--too much Vietnam, underestimation of the Swiftboat liars, under use and/or a poor choice re-Edwards (I can't decide here), lack of clarity on Iraq till too late in the game, etc.

The first debate was a highlight, but other than that, I cannot think of one.

[eridani]

97. What if, despite all that, Kerry won?

From the Patridge piece on the home page--

Bush's popular vote total simply doesn't add up. As Marc Sapir explains:

Despite the fact that the Democrats registered far more people in the past six months than the Republicans, and despite a huge voter turnout, with first time voters (according to Warren Mitofsky's poll) giving Kerry a 60:40 edge, President Bush appears to have increased his national vote total by 8 million votes compared with the 2000 election, yet Mitofsky saw no desertion to Bush from 2000 Gore voters (90% of Gore voters stayed with Kerry and 90% of Bush voters stayed with Bush).

Did hordes of previously non-voting evangelicals turn out this time to sweep their born-again leader into power? Apparently not. Did a faction of the public incensed over liberal "immorality" (and at the same time unconcerned about the immorality of an illegal war, or of Republican greed and cruelty) vastly outnumber another faction concerned about the deteriorating economy? The CNN (Mitofsky) exit polls tell us that the numbers were essentially equal.

Were the Democrats "out-hustled" by the Republicans in the GOTV (get-out-the-vote) efforts? News reports indicate that the "hustle prize" goes to the Democrats. Did the majority of new registrants enroll as Democrats in order to vote for Bush?

Did the undecideds "break" for the incumbent? This has rarely happened in history, and even if, somehow, it happened this time, the few remaining undecideds would not have significantly added to Bush's total. Was there an eleventh-hour surge of popular support for Bush? Zogby's first post-election poll reported Bush's approval rating at 48%, and the percentage of those who agreed that the country was "moving in the right direction" at 47%.

Never before has an incumbent president with an approval rating below 50% won re-election. What accounts for the alleged exception in 2004?

Eleven million more votes were cast in 2004 than were cast in 2000. We are expected to believe that of these Bush got eight million (73%) and John Kerry three million.

So we ask again: Where did George Bush's surplus eight million votes come from?

Did those newly registered voters, and those long lines of voters who waited up to ten hours to vote in the inner cities and college towns (but not conspicuously in rural Republican areas) come out on November 2 to vote, overwhelmingly, for George Bush? No, these were Kerry people (or as likely anti-Bush people) believing that they were about to cast valid votes. Why, then, do these votes not appear in Kerry's totals? Is it possible that they were "relocated," via hidden and secret digital hocus-pocus, into Bush's column?

If there is a more plausible explanation I'd like to hear it.

[loyalsister]

102. Sorry to tell you

But I have talked to at least three people who defected from Gore to Bush. My mom, my grandfather, and an aquaintence.
This brings me to another issue. There was a nonpartisan nationwide disability GOTV project. Unfortunately, many of these voters in my area voted Republican. They were totally manipulated. It was awful.
Many of these voters were new voters.
I also spoke with quite a few people who turned on all Democrats after the vote on the marriage amendment here. We actually lost a seat in my town for the first time in 20 years. It's a district that has a lot of rural territory.
I'm not saying that the scenario mentioned by the author isn't possible. I'm just saying that I know of instances of occurance for those things the things the author claims were so unlikely.

[eridani]

111. 90% did not defect from Gore--

--and 90% did not defect from Bush, leaving no change in that respect. Anecdotes aren't statistics.

Despite the fact that the Democrats registered far more people in the past six months than the Republicans, and despite a huge voter turnout, with first time voters (according to Warren Mitofsky's poll) giving Kerry a 60:40 edge, President Bush appears to have increased his national vote total by 8 million votes compared with the 2000 election, yet Mitofsky saw no desertion to Bush from 2000 Gore voters (90% of Gore voters stayed with Kerry and 90% of Bush voters stayed with Bush).

[killbotfactory]

103. Yeah, well... our party thought he was the electable one...

He was in 'Nam, you see...

[jellybelly]

109. oh no...

You are going start a flame war. I personally have been addicted to DU for a LONG time but never found the courage to log in and post . I was worried that if I didn't post comments about Bush eating babies other members would say 'look at your number of posts' and then call me a freeper. You have alot of courage.

and until I reach 1000 posts:
my god, did you see that baby Bush devoured?
:(

[Sugarbleus]

110. Yes, I worried about Kerry also.

I don't believe he threw the election. Campaigning is extremely difficult and hard on the body. Both candidates looked like they would keel over at various times...the traveling and co ordinating and worrying was wearing on both of them--it would be pointless to work that hard only to "throw" the election.

Although, I DID entertain that thought at first and right after the election. At first because Kerry "came from behind"..*BOOM* right out of nowhere. Kerry who? Iowa shocked me completely.

Kerry was "maneuvered" into first place by his handlers (DLC/DNC?) The leadership pushed him thinking he was the "right person" for the position. Odd how these groups just go off and decide FOR US who will get the most attention/nomination. =o/ But then, this isn't the first time this kind of thing has ever happened in American politics.

My stomach dropped too when Kerry went on all those "sporty" escapades. The first one I accepted; the others I felt were too much. All of us were working and worrying and donating like maniacs while Kerry just went windsurfing.......:+

He was repetitive in his speeches, vague, aloof, and refused to go on talk shows to answer questions. He refused to show proof for the SBVT's attacks.

He didn't appear to be fighting hard enough for HIMSELF. I also heard stories about his wife. Apparently, she was a "handful" during campaigning. She constantly needed "attention". A bit of a hypochondriac too. She bothered me from the start...too neurotic.

I saw a C-span bit where a press person and a staffer on the campaign talked about the problems Kerry and his wife
had with her telling him what to do and she being sick or ill tempered etc.

At one point, the staffer requested that Theresa be quiet (words to that effect)and the decision was made to separate them so that his wife would go one way and Kerry would appear alone in another venue every so often.

Kerry's website details changed a couple times. Stating one thing for awhile, then changing the wording later on. There were so many things wrong in his campaign but the coup de grace' came when I saw him standing in front of a bunch of (outsourced induced) unemployed Ohio workers and state: "I cannot stop outsourcing but I will make "some changes".......!!??"(paraphrased by me)

I went back and read details of his record; they weren't all that gleaming. He DID waffle both in politics and in his personal life. Somebody/some org. built him up to be someone he was not.

I had a talk with a life long Democratic friend some time before elections. She said to me: "why can't the Democrats pick a good candidate?" I sputtered around because I knew she was right. I told her what I told myself: BUSH MUST GO. Anybody but bush.

I couldn't talk of these things here, during the campaign/after his nomination because it wasn't appropriate. I tried like everyone else to get enthused and set to cheering "our guy" onwards to victory. At some point along the way, it was dawning on me that we only had a 50/50 chance; I pretty much believed the election would be a squeaker..and it was.

After "coming down" from Black Tuesday, I spent time reading and looking into what happened. Fraud in voting? Probably, but I also believe that other concerned people not on DU saw many of the same things I and nascar saw and freaked out. Of course the media and the rovian tricks did a fine job of smearing Kerry so that "concerned" people would be even more confused on the facts.

I voted Kerry. I'm sorry he's not sitting in the White House...but now I think I've had a glimpse of what bush voters were seeing and feeling.

I'm so heartbroken and disillusioned by our defeat. I can't believe we put this much effort into a presidential campaign....one of the most powerful movements since I can't remember...only to lose because of a weak candidate and misguided Democratic Leadership.... Unfreaking believable!!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

114. yeah that's why he lost....NOT! ever hear or read blackboxvoting.org?

and what really bothers me is how easly you let repukes reporting shape your mind.......can you say "DIEBOLD"?

[BiggJawn]

116. Wahl, Shee-yit, pardner, why didn't JayKay jist....

Git rid a'thet faggy-looking spandex shit and do some REAL MAN shit, like Oh, shit, I dunno, go 4-wheelin', or hunting, or beer drinkin', or wife-beating...

I seem to recall "photo-op" picturse of Kerry having a brewski with people, and oh...that goose-hunting party, THAT went over HUGE, didn't it?

DIDN'T IT????

Blame Brazille and McAuliffe (I do) but don't blame it on Kerry's "inability" to click with the Redneck Vote.

[HeeBGBz]

119. Gawd help us if we would offend the squeemish homophobes

Those who get all bent because they might see the offending male bulge beneath spandex and be overcome with self-doubt.

[BiggJawn]

124. "Orficer! arrest them men!" "Why?" "Because!"

"You kin see their THANGS under them tight pants!"

Allegedly overheard on a donut ride one sunday morning....

[PATRICK]

120. I'd have to second the sincerity of the poster

since I was early on very dismayed particularly by the campaign gurus on the Dem side. They'd sit at these round tables mildly trying to one up each other and being disastrously candid(a Dem feature that makes for perfect victimhood) but even worse they almost exuded complete incompetence for the times we live in. Every one of them. Some seemed deliberately dressed down for that scruffy open workshirt image.

Well, anyway, the key phrase is "out of it" but STILL in their nominal jobs and still embarrassing Democrats and real politicians everywhere by remaining "gosh golly whuh happened?" in the limelight.

As much as you might despise the GOP or discredit their mediocre intelligence, they had control of the game and, hardly believing their luck at having such a hapless clueless opposition simply pile it on and on and on.

On the OTHER hand, for those wanting to cling to some minimal display of reason and competence, perhaps this is still cover for the SECRET Kerry strategy yet to save the fading day. Certainly I would use these dorks to do the overt campaign, arrange bus tickets, buy cosmetics, etc but I would have laid a bear vise of a trap over the coming theft and?or faced it down in every precinct with extreme involvement. There ways of scaring that smarmy riffraff of GOP intimidators away. How did this party get locked into ineffectual victim mode slaving for the enemy media and believing all their bunk?

Now to be lectured by the embedded enemy reporters and politely showing incompetent idiocy is supposed to help Kerry and the party retrieve the future? Can't anyone just shut and resign when they have lost the nation to tyranny? No they have to make excuses and pretend it didn't happen and soak up the limelight like circus clowns.

Unfortunately what you have been shocked about it all too familiar. it's not the money. It's like the mighty Roman Army has marched out to save you from slavery- with gilded cardboard shields and Nerf swords. And then sit around chumming with the Huns trying to puzzle out what went wrong.

What I never wanted to believe was "what you see is what you get" when we needed absolutely so much more. Iowa restored my hopes somewhat, because that was largely invisible.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

121. Newbie or not, your observations make sense to me

:-)

It was as if Kerry was purposly being portrayed participating in all the yuppie sports.

I, too, shook my head over that one.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

122. I agree that there was fraud, BUT...

a close election is easier to steal than a landslide.

If the Kerry campaign had attacked Bush on his vulnerabilities, promoted Kerry's real accomplishments in things like the BCCI scandal (there has to be a simple way to promote that), and offered a simple, coherent vision on bread-and-butter issues instead of trying to out-macho Bush's image, the election would not even have been close.

Once again, a Dem presidential campaign made the mistake of allowing the Republicanites to define it.

Yes, the media are slanted and there is voting fraud, but I can think of a couple of cases in which being handed a Republican opponent as obviously incompetent as Bush served as the opportunity for a landslide by the Democratic contender. (cf. the Denny Smith vs. John Kitzhaber race for governor of Oregon).

[quiet.american]

123. What's the big deal?

Firstly, I never understood the big deal about Kerry's choice of sports.

Aren't windsurfers and cyclists Americans, too? Every other commercial on TV shows people doing these same things and no one's shouting "elitist!" at those companies.

Secondly, in spite of what Kerry may or may not have done correctly in his campaign, he won. Bottom line.

Voter fraud and suppression occurred through Shrub & Co. and that's why Kerry "lost." Did he run a perfect campaign? No. Did he run a winning campaign? Yes.