Last Night's 60 Minutes

[Not_Giving_Up]

Did anybody see the story they opened with? A fifty-five year old woman being called back to active duty...and several others that really have no business being anywhere near combat being told they have to go. One guy had been injured in active duty years ago. he said he can't run, that if someone is chasing him and shooting he's dead, and he's not going unless they come and get him.

I figure that this is the way they inflame the public into saying we need a draft. The mentality of "If they're calling up grandma, maybe we should bring back the draft and send our able-bodied young people over there instead".

I was watching for the Bob Dylan interview, which I missed half of because my parents called...but this is insane!

[Florida_Geek]

1. she is a reservist and has been for many years

she got call to do what she has been paid to do.

[BlueEyedSon]

11. One of the other guys profiled has fulfilled his obligations

(and resigned his commission as prescribed) but the military has forgotten, lost his papers or changed the rules.... and are calling him up anyway.

He is fighting them in court.

[Florida_Geek]

13. he probably will win

but she will have to go.

[Willy Lee]

32. They told the fellow, who was by law no longer in the military

that he should just "show up" and they would straighten it out. He had renounced his officer status and the powers that be said it was a "clerical error".

He pointed out that once he shows up he will be in fo rthe long haul.

[BlueEyedSon]

27. "Paid"? I got the impression that none of these reservists were

"active", and had completed their 4+4 year obligation (i.e. are not currently on the payroll).

The point is, when you start calling up 4 foot 8 inch grandmas, fat and/or disabled middle-aged men who can't run or climb out of a foxhole.... well how far away can a draft be to get QUALIFIED bodies?

[Florida_Geek]

34. I say that based on this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x16492

"Does she find it unusual that the Army is now calling up a female soldier in her 50s, who has been in the reserves for 40 years?

"No. Although I think what they need to look at is our ability to perform in a tactical environment," says Murray. "For myself, I am going to find that a difficult thing to do physically."

[BlueEyedSon]

35. They are plainly unqualified for deployment in Iraq.

That is obvious to anyone who is fact-based. Ooops, guess that leaves out the Bush admin!

[chicagiana]

49. Probably a one for one trade ...

They will call up the older folks to do the paper pusher jobs, than the paper pushers will get rifles, tactical training and be deployed.

[shoelace414]

2. So far only officers

So far I'm safe, but how can this not be called a draft?

[Florida_Geek]

3. she was still active in the reserves

so they are hitting bottom but no draft YET.

[TNDemo]

9. What is the definition of an officer?

My military knowledge is pretty slim. How is an officer different from everyone else?

[shoelace414]

10. Officers don't wear stripes on their sleeves. :)

officers are commissioned.. I have no idea what that means.. but I think congress has to commision them.

[leftofthedial]

45. officers are "management"

non-commissioned officers are "supervisors"

enlisted are "labor"



Generally accurate translations of the above euphemisms:

"management" = "expendable scapegoats for bad policy"

"supervisors" = "competent professionals responsible for implementing bad policy"

"labor" = "cannon fodder units"

[TNDemo]

51. So a non-commissioned officer would have no commission

to resign obviously. That was what I was wanting to hear. I watched the 60 Minutes piece and my brother retired a couple of years ago (at my great urging) and he was a NCO. I was just wondering if they could find some way to call him back.

[mopinko]

4. it really bugs me

that this is not a bigger issue. the pentagon has spent trillions of dollars, TRILLIONS! over the last decade, and they apparently didn't buy any soldiers with it. we do not have adequate forces to take over an unarmed country the size of california.

[shoelace414]

12. I like this link

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp


In Context: U.S. Military Spending Versus Rest of the World

Consider the following:

* The US military budget is almost as much as the rest of the world's.
* The US military budget is more than 8 times larger than the Chinese budget, the second largest spender.

[natrat]

17. remember general shelikasvile (really bad sp)

he said we needed a minimum of 500 k troops. That view differed from the neocon freaks and Herr Rumsfeld. He was thrown out for telling the truth. What else would you expect from the reich?

[BlueEyedSon]

28. His number may have been more like 300-400k IIRC nt

[barb162]

48. there were a bunch of generals thrown out who wouldn't play

the neocon game of going in to Iraq "light"

[nostamj]

5. another subject was a 31yo women with

a 7 month old son and two other kids.

they're going to separate that mother and child for 18 months and the woman has ALREADY served her commitment.

yo bushie! you got their mandate, TAKE THEIR SONS!

[MatrixEscape]

6. I smell a great solution

for fixing Social Security: Draft everyone who is about to retire.

What the heck? They may be a bit slower and need some extra medical supplies, but why not? There will be so many of them, to boot.

[Ian David]

16. Military Draft Idea

Obviously, not everyone is physicaly capable of serving in the military in a combat role.

But I have a plan that will:

1) Protect American lives
2) Save money
3) Reduce the number of people that need to be drafted
4) Reduce crime
5) Save money on after-school programs

Remotely Piloted Combat Aircraft for children.

People aged 13 and up can be trained part-time. For example, in after-school programs. Qualified students could then sit at consoles at The YMCA, in their school computer lab, or at a church.

For disabled adults, they could be given a modified Playstation 2 and a broadband cable modem to pilot the aircraft from home.

And any American willing to take the time to train and qualify could purchase the Playstation console so they could go online to fly a mission whenever they have a free hour or two when the mood strikes them.

We could broadcast the highlights of the missions on the internet, post people's "scores" online, and turn our best remote pilots into celebrities of sorts.

Of course, we would need safety mechanisms in place to keep children from dogfighting with each other for kicks, or to eliminate people who threaten to beat their "scores."

Soon, we could eliminate the need for landmines by using remotely operated gun emplacements, similar to the ones being currently being used to hunt deer over the internet. (I kid you not!)


And better still, it won't be long until people can control robotic ground infantry from the comfort of their livingroom.

Someone tell Bush about this plan. I bet he'll be all over it.

[Ian David]

20. Remotely operated hunting over the internet

"LIVE-SHOT is similar to a trip to the rifle range with one very notable exception. Everything is done through a computer and the internet. A paid membership will allow for access to the range viewing camera(s) at any time."

"We are currently working on a very comfortable, ADA compliant blind which will house the LIVE-SHOT shooting system. Once this and the perimeter fencing are completed, will we be able to offer a unique computer assisted hunting opportunity. Disabled and handicapped hunters, as well as others who would like to try this type of hunting, will be able to use our system."



---

The Iraqis may be next!

Be a soldier from the comfort of your own home!

[sunnystarr]

7. Old people and single moms, but hey we don't need

more troops according to Rumsfeld. Last Thursday on our local news they had the story about an Army Reservist who left the military last year. She's a divorced mother of a two year old. Her ex is serving in Iraq and the Army recalled her for active duty. She had noone to take care of her two year old son and appealed to the Army. They responded and told her that her duty to her country was more important than any other responsibility she has (the letter was shown). She said that she would show up for duty with her son. So I guess Santa is taking away his Mom for Christmas.

Fort Campbell, the home of the 101st, is close to Nashville so we are made aware of many of the human stories that don't make it into the national media. I've seen men and women in their late 50's called to active duty as well as mothers like the one above. Of course they usually feature those who are ready and willing to serve.

I just can't get that little 2 year old out of my head. He doesn't understand why he's losing both parents and the affect on his life can't be undone.

American people are so apathetic to these injustices. I don't know what it will take to wake up our unconscious population and my heart goes out to all who have to suffer because we as a people have lost our soul.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[luaneryder]

15. So, the citizens who have

been called back after already serving and have the temerity to complain about trivial matters such as personal hardship, family obligations, medical problems are not "good Americans."

[GoldenOldie]

25. Obligation you Incur????

Did you actually watch 60-Minutes and if so did you watch the entire show????

The 47-year old, who had spent 16years and then given a medical discharge because of an injury to his army while on-duty. This man now has a metal rod in his arm and deemed medically unfit for duty yet they are unwilling to accept this.

The young man who had served his contracted 4-years plus his 4-years required Reserve duty and received his official discharge but is now ordered to report for duty.

One Reservist called back was so obese, he could barely climb into the shooting range bunker. He was huffing and puffing and the srap on his metal helmit seemed to be choking him.

Previous news reports have shown 59-72 year olds being called back to duty. These men and women are not being called back to fill the desks of younger Regular military but to fight in actual combat.

Why oh why are these individual citizens being held at a higher standard than the President of the US who cannot even account for all of his "Obligation" incurred during his TANG stint??

[luaneryder]

40. No, I didn't see it

I was replying to the freeper post above me.

[Kingshakabobo]

18. I guessed you missed the several hundred

human interest stories splattered all over the media over the last two and a half years. The media has been pissing all over themselves trying to show the patriotic stories of young men and women leaving their families behind while going off to fight the good fight.

Perhaps you were serving in Iraq and missed the stories.:shrug:

[JimmyJazz]

19. you don't mean the same benefits that are being

stripped from the military as we speak do you?

HOw old are you and when are you enlisting?

[Bridget Burke]

21. When did you sign it?

Apparently some of the reasons people are being called back up are pretty far-fetched.

But your profile says you're Canadian--so it's not really your problem, is it?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

23. I don't think he's a Canadian

he just plays one on DU!

[nine23]

38. It's this simple: This guy is not Canadian.

His profile (when it was up) listed his "city" as being "somewhere in Ontario". Seems to me, if one doesn't want to reveal the name of one's place of residence, they simply leave it blank. (Obviously, brainiac didn't give this much thought - or it didn't "occur" to him - when he was signing his profile).

Also, he's addressed the five "issues" he's posted to, all of which are strictly US issues, clearly from a freeper point of view.

The abject stupidity of these guys just makes it toooo freakin' easy...

[CatWoman]

22. If you're from Canada, perhaps your system works differently

However, here in America, a fulfillment is a fulfillment.

Why should someone be called back to active duty after completing their fulfillment?

[Ian David]

26. Military fulfillment

If you commit to babysit someone's kids for three hours, can the parents call you back to "active duty" a week later, and does it mean you don't like kids if you refuse to come back?

What if the kids shot you the last time you babysat?

[JimmyJazz]

31. He's gone Catwoman - just like last nights freeper

they can't stick around long enough to debate the issue because they have no defense of their stupid comments.

[CatWoman]

42. these people have got to have the most boring, sucky lives

EVER!!!!

Can't they find any other ways to amuse themselves?

I really, truly think they are jealous of us.

[Not_Giving_Up]

24. They did show people (including the 55 year old woman)

who were willing to go, no problem. But there were a lot of people who were under the impression that their obligation had been fulfilled, and now they're getting letters to report for deployment.

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. Ya know.

That can't be legal. Calling back someone who has fulfilled their obligation to the military is akin to being shanghaied.

[welshTerrier2]

33. i'll have a pizza to go and no anchovies ...

so your basic point is that an obligation is an obligation ??

what is the obligation of any human being to stand up and "just say no" when the U.S. government wages an immoral war in Iraq ?? what is your obligation to not slaughter more than 100,000 innocent Iraqis? what is your obligation to honor the Geneva convention?? what is your obligation to not target doctors and hospitals who reported on U.S. atrocities in Fallujah?? what is your obligation when there are no WMD and no imminent threat to the U.S. ??

so before you go labelling the "good" Americans and the "bad" Americans, how about a few words on the immoral, illegal actions of the U.S. government who is summoning these poor souls to their criminal bidding for them ...

as the old saying goes, i'll have a pizza to go and no anchovies ...

[Willy Lee]

36. JumpingJack- they did NOT know what they were signing up for.

From the 60 Minutes episode last night-

What Mary didn’t realize is that, as an officer, she remained in the Ready Reserve -- even after her eight years were through -- because she hadn’t resigned her commission as an officer.

But she’s not alone. Many officers say they were never made aware of that -- that no mention is made of it in the enlistment agreements they signed. The Army, which declined a request by 60 Minutes for an interview, counters that the requirement is referred to in the agreements – if ever so obliquely.

"It's a six-digit reference to an Army regulation, that that's put in a remark section in these agreements," says Mark Waple, a lawyer who specializes in defending soldiers. "It borders on being a deceptive recruiting practice. I’m not suggesting it was intended that way."

[Strelnikov_]

39. Exactly, These People Had Fulfilled Their Obligation

but because of a loophole regarding officers having to formally resign their commissions, they are getting called back under IRR.

The IRR term for enlisted personnel is 8 years.

Sometimes the perks come with hidden liabilities.

[Spike from MN]

37. It's not about fulfilling an obligation.

It's about the fact that they were suppposed to resign their commission after they had fulfilled their obligation. Unfortunately, none of them knew about this little clause as they weren't told about it when they signed up and it certainly wasn't obvious from the paperwork they filled out. It's like the fine print on a contract that requires a law degree for proper interpretation. Actually it was even worse because there wasn't much fine print to read. It was just a reference to either a regulation or a form number or something similar and was VERY easy to overlook though I'm sure it was all just an innocent mistake on the part of the military. Yeah, right.

One guy did find out about this little catch that they had put in and resigned his commission as required but was called up anyway because they conveniently "lost" his paperwork. He was told to just go ahead and report and that they would "straighten it out" after that. Of course, once you report you're in and he knows that so he has no intention of reporting. The others were screwed by the little clause in their contract that they weren't told about when they signed up. How convenient. For the military that is, not for those being forced to report for duty.

[Sterling]

43. Good Americans?

Like the old guy that could not get into the fox hole yet felt it was his duty to serve anyway? I think he is a good American. If you were a good American you would NOT want this guy to defend your country.

First of all I don't want these guys in the Army for very praqctical reasons like the suck ass as soldiers. But as a human being I don't want these slow sorry soldiers to be used as fodder when their are healthy Bush supporters like yourself staying at home cheerleading the war.

[Kiteflyer]

29. If the 55 y.o. granny voted for Bush

she's getting what she voted for. She should be happy.

[undergroundpanther]

41. refuse resist

Don't be a hired gun for rich pigs who drag us in thier sick greed head dramas with other nations. WE can't keep on fighting thier wars for them anymore.Don't go.If you are forced into Iraq Don't shoot.Don't obey.
I bet if our folks refused to fight ,refused to be intimidated by court marshalls ect ,refused to arrest people,refused to follow any orders in masse there would be no more Iraq war. Because Bush and Rumsfeld aren't gonna risk thier ass nor are any congressmans kids.

[chocula]

44. sad really..

US military, model of strength and power, will be gasping along with 50-year-old fighters, all so we could get Saddam out of power (and get the oil).

[newyawker99]

46. Hi chocula!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[barb162]

47. I saw it; yeah, not many older people want to go to Iraq.

[superconnected]

50. Maybe it's their way of cutting medicare and social security

force all senior citizens that were ever connected to the armed services back to work and stick them in a war zone they are unlikely to survive in.