After roughly 400 years of religious freedom...

[chicagojoe]

...why do some Christians still proclaim loudly that they are persecuted?

[RaleighNCDUer]

1. Because everyone likes the underdog.

They just want to be liked, poor things.

[liberal N proud]

2. It works for them.

If you are persecuted, then you are thought of as a martyr.

[GOPFighter]

3. Only the Fundies

IMO it's only the Fundies that insist they are being persecuted. It's a self fulfilling prophesy. They whine about how persecuted they are, people react by deciding the Fundies are whakos, and treat them like idiots, thus the Fundies feel persecuted.

Hey Fundies, you want to see some real persecution? Try admitting you're an atheist in America!

[chicagojoe]

5. I forgot to phrase my question correctly. It IS only the fundies.

But we also know how quickly defective fundie thought can spread to the rest of the herd.

[GOPFighter]

6. Yeah

I'm watching how quickly the Catholic Church is turning Fundie

[progressoid]

18. Dang right! Ask Dr Newdow

Hell the Supreme Court laughed when he made the statement that an atheist would never get elected in America. They know it's true. America isn't all that tolerant.

[Not_Giving_Up]

4. Because if you haven't been persecuted,

then you aren't a good Christian! Think about it. All of the major players in the Bible were persecuted. My fundie parents drug me to a church with a wacko preacher for years. This guy claimed that figures with no faces tried to run him off the road, and he just knew it was Satan. Maybe someone should have told him that they make medication for this.

[Inland]

7. Because they need an excuse for losing the culture war.

Persecution allows them to claim that people are being forced to drop christianity, rather than just drifting away due to temptation and growing disillusionment with their churches.

Also, it allows them to elevate their own lives to those of martyrs, by equating the fact they don't get to sing religious Christmas carols in City Hall with the torture of early christians.

The day that Christians (or republicans) acknowledge that nothing except themselves stand in the way of success is the day their faith based view of society is going to implode.

[noonwitch]

8. Because those christians define persecution differently than the rest

They think it's persecution to not have organized school prayer or daily Bible readings in class. After all, we used to have it up through the 50s.

They feel they are being persecuted by the stream of unwholesome programming on tv (and in entertainment at large), and that it attacks their values. They think that when cities won't put up nativity scenes in front of their city halls, christians are being persecuted.

Persecution is something that is part of christian history, liberal or conservative, within and without the actual religion. The Romans persecuted the early christians for rejecting the deification of Ceasar (and stirring up trouble among the slave class). The protestants and catholics slaughtered each other during the Reformation and Counter-Reformation. It's an easy term to throw around, but like in so many other areas, the fundies are now defining the terms, whether it's "persecution" or "liberal" or "traditional family values" or "pro-life".

Christians in China are persecuted. Christians here run the show. It does get lots of money in donations to "The 700 Club" and it's affiliated law group, "The American Center For Law And Justice" to over hype every case in which a christian's rights may have been denied.

[zanana]

9. Because people keep stealing their "Jesus fish"..

Sorry--couldn't help myself. I was thinking of Elaine and Putty.

[chicagojoe]

13. I'm not kidding. That happened to my neighbor...

...and all I could think about was Elaine and Putty !!!

[Feathered Fish]

10. Because the point was never to have religious freedom

for others. All this religious freedom has put a nail in the coffin of conversion. They have failed at their goal: to turn every person on Earth into a christian. So what do they do? They cry persecution.
:eyes:

[immoderate]

11. Everyone should read "Games People Play"

by Erich Berne. Based on his theory of Transactional Analysis, these fundies are playing the game of "Poor Little Me." It gets them attention and "strokes."

In the 80s, some subs came into a school where I was teaching, wearing buttons that said "Victims of the Press." How could you not ask? Their story was they belonged to some pseudo-psychology cult, and the papers were not reporting whatever it was their glorious leader was doing. I believe it had something to do with "curing" homosexuality. (Yawn.)

They got attention, but not too much sympathy in Manhattan. They were playing the social game of "Poor Little Me."

Oh yeah, when I say, "everyone should read...," I mean I think it's enjoyable and enlightening, I'm not assigning it.

--IMM

[Bridget Burke]

12. It's the latest "meme"--invented by extremists

Ever hear of the Christian Reconstructionists? They're the extremists who want to remake the USA into some ultra-Calvinist vision of the Old Testament. Stoning, slavery, etc. The son of their founder has a website; check out this article "Christianity Under Attack": www.chalcedon.edu/underwriters.php

You may have seen editorials, letters to editors or spam exclaming how Christians were being oppressed. Here's the source.

Most of the people considered Fundamentalists and/or Evangelicals do not agree with what these guys really stand for. But they're being used.

[jackelope72]

14. I don't know, but I wish they'd stop.

Even my stepfather has gotten in on it, and he hasn't been to church or practiced any other form of worship since I've known him (about 13 years now). But suddenly lately, he's been saying, "When did it become so bad to be a Christian? Why aren't we allowed to be who we are? They've taken Christmas from us, they've taken prayer from us, we aren't allowed to do anything anymore!"

I pretty much divert the subject to something else when he starts in, usually because my little brother (8 years old) is around, and he doesn't need to hear the shouting that nearly always happens when I try to debate my stepfather on anything.

[forgethell]

15. Some of them are;

Take Sudan, for instance, or Saudi Arabia. North Korea. Pakistan and parts of India.

But where does that 400 year figure come from? That would make it 1604. The Thirty Years War ended in 1648. The Anglican church is established in England, though it receives no state funds, but unless they've changed it recently, a Catholic cannot marry the heir to the throne. Germany supports churches with a tax, but that is not religious freedom,especially if you are not a member of that church.

I don't know what the situation is in individual Muslim lands today, but the Ottoman empire less than 100 years ago. Historically Christians and Jews were called "dhimmis" in Muslim lands, and paid a punishing poll tax called "jizya". This was really protection money, and is authorized by the Koran.



Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and his messenger have forbidden - such men as practice not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the book - until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled (humiliated). Surah al-Baqara 9:29

Merry Christmas
:-)

[chicagojoe]

16. That was a rough figure based on...

...when pilgrims left for the New World.
My whole point was, the freedom has been here for a long, long time!!!

[jhurst]

17. Socialize Babies and Marriages

These so-called "christians" consider themselves persecuted, because the rest of us to do not believe they speak for Jesus Christ. They think they do.

Constitutional Amendments banning abortion and gay marriages cannot be enforced without the Federal Baby Police and the Federal Marriage Police. These are people so insane that they really believe in the Baby and Marriage Police - and that they are simultaneously "getting the Federal Government off the backs of ordinary Americans."

It never even occurs to them that what they want is logically contradictory. "Faith-Based Government" is a simple way of saying "Never Think." We Democrats have sorely misunderstood how dangerous these people truly are.

They are Determined to save YOUR SOUL via Constitutional amendment. They actually Believe it is your fault - for not listening to their preachers. Since you refused to Save Yourself, They will do it for you!

The real legal issue is simple: they see 400 years of religious freedom as anti-Jesus, because the Law of the Land kept them from Saving You! THEY see themselves as persecuted, because the Constitution prevents their religious belief that THEY MUST persecute you - until you, too, are saved by "mending your ways."

They turn religion itself upside down to twist and turn it to their own political desires - but they do truly believe it. If these nuts don't yet scare you half to death or worse, you don't understand them.

[newyawker99]

19. Hi jhurst!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast: