Navy SEALS Rock!

[Cocoa]

http://apnews.myway.com/image/20041203/SEALS_PRISONER_PHOTOS.sff_LA105_20041203172528.html?date=20041203&docid=D86OEJ7G0



A photo found posted on a commercial photo-sharing Web site operated by a woman who said her husband brought the photos from Iraq after his tour of duty appears to show a subject constrained by U.S. military personnel. The Navy SEALs have launched a criminal investigation into photographs that appear to show commandos sitting on hooded and handcuffed detainees, and photos of what appear to be bloodied prisoners. (AP Photo)

[Blue_Tires]

1. is that guy dressed in a TOGA?!??!!??!!?

[cheezus]

56. Further proof that this is no big deal -- just like a frat party

[Downtown Hound]

2. Don't let Katie see this picture

she might get aroused.

[PatriotGames]

79. Yeah, she might get all squishy.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Well...

I have this friend who was a SEAL. Nam. Team 2. He used to work with an icepick.

Really. It was his specialty. "Political Neutralization" was the euphamism.

Fact is, for better or worse, SEALs kill people and break things. That's why there are SEALs.

I am sure that any investigation is into why the pictures got out. That's all that they will look into.

[oneighty]

64. I have a feeling your SEAL friend

might not have been a SEAL.

180 Ex-Navy EOD

[jmowreader]

71. Next time you're shooting the shit with your neighbor...

ask him his BUD/S class number.

Also check http://www.authentiseal.org/howtospot.htm

The fact that this guy doesn't claim to be SEAL Team 6--the home of the phony, and how I would hate to have really been in SEAL Team 6, because half the world thinks anyone who says he was in SEAL Team 6 is a wannabe--leads me to believe he's probably for real.

[chicagiana]

77. Interesting info ...

Deleted ... found info on Jesse Ventura. They say he got the same training as the SEALs at the time and simply had a different designation as a Frogman.

[Name removed]

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[DrWeird]

5. You know, if they did that to one of our troops...

I bet you'd be pretty upset.

[Name removed]

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[alfredo]

17. the sawing off of heads didn't start happening until the

Abu Graib story became public.

[DoNotRefill]

76. Really?

Daniel Pearl died how?

[Cocoa]

6. it's the story, more than that particular picture

[Obviousman]

7. Oh, I see what you're saying

Yeah, the fact that people in the navy are taking pictures is faaaar more important to investigate than torture.

[Name removed]

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[qanda]

18. Of course you have no problem with it

I visited your site and it appears you have no problem with anything the US military does.

[matcom]

19. I'd like to see a hood on George W Bush

how 'bout you?

[tkmorris]

47. It's interesting

On another forum, in another place and time, I might actually enjoy trading points of view with you. You are far more thoughtful, not to mention coherent, than most of the people who come here to umm............. do what you are doing.

You say you are entering the service soon. Good, I am a veteran myself. Be prepared though, the world is not quite as simple as you seem to believe it to be. Not everyone labeled as a terrorist actually is one, and not everything that you hear about the good deeds of the United States is actually true.

I fear you are in for many years of learning the truth about History, the World, and the United States place in it. You will learn a great deal about the true motivations of those who claim such bright, shining Christian ideals. Koolaid withdrawal, in other words. It will be quite painful, but be thankful nonetheless. Most of your compatriots will never be able to grasp the truth, it is as beyond them as Orbital Mechanics is to a butterfly. You however, you show promise. You at least have the tools to learn.

Good luck to you. You're going to need it.

[HamdenRice]

9. Look at the guy on the right ...

Doesn't he have his hands up in a boxing position? Not very sporting to "box" with someone who is bound and hooded, is it? Punching a bound and hooded prisoner is called torture.

[the other rick]

10. Hand signal

That isn't a punching pose (no one has boxed like that since "Meet me in St. Louis". Its a common military hand signal for 'perimeter secured'

[Crunchy Frog]

11. Welcome to DU antarius.

I checked out your website. I'm impressed with how progressive it looks.:hi:

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[matcom]

21. didn't say a fucking WORD about nuclear

where did you get that and why aren't YOU volunteering?

i'm a Vet. did MY duty. how about YOU?

[Name removed]

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[matcom]

25. don't thank me

good luck "helping out"

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[matcom]

29. not sarcastic on my end

i pitty you

[Name removed]

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[Downtown Hound]

37. Help out huh?

I hate to break it to you dude, but we're going to lose this war. The only thing you're going to be helping out with is pushing America off the brink. This invasion is a disgrace.

I hope you make it back safely, and hopefully a little wiser as well. Try not to kill any Iraqis while your over there. They never did anything to warrant this kind of treatment from the United States, and they have every right to resist it.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

54. Hey Matcom - do you have his website still in your cache?

I'd like to see his nonsense. I missed it before it got deleted.

[Crunchy Frog]

55. Here's the link to the website.

http://www.kuffar.net/

Very entertaining reading if you're into that sort of thing.:puke:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

58. Thanks!

I'm not looking so much to be entertained as I am to find out how fucked up this guy really is.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[DrWeird]

26. No, you're a bigotishterite

because you've linked to an anti-Islamic hate site.

I'm sure you've got plenty of muslim friends. Black friends too.

[Name removed]

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[DrWeird]

35. Yeah, OK Adolf.

"But, most terrorists (of today) fall under Islam, which makes me disrespect that religion, until it does something to stop the growth of terrorism in the name of Islam."

You say you're not an islamophobic bigot but you can't even complete your post without proving it again.

Pretty pathetic attempt, really.

[Name removed]

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[Downtown Hound]

48. Do you hate Christianity?

Bush has killed over 100,000 people, many of them women and children, because "God told him to do it." This war is an act of terrorism, much deadlier than anything they've done.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

50. I agree with some of what you say...

The problem is, that could also easily apply to us as well.

Do you respect the Christian faith? Because I guarantee you that every one of the people who gave tacit approval to real torture in Guantanamo and Abu Gharib call themselves "Christian".

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

p.s. I do agree with you that these photos don't show any torture.

[DrWeird]

51. You know you're agreeing with a freeper, right?

One that's already been banned? Just thought that was interesting.

http://www.itshappening.com/showthread.php?s=9fabcc47d3d4f1739784a3f77f2cc309&p=1854848#post1854848

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

57. How LAME is it to brag about coming here and trolling?

This just SCREAMS "loser living in Mom's basement."

[DrWeird]

59. Mmhmm. And planning a DOS attack.

Not the smartest people on the face of the earth.

[Name removed]

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[Mandate My Ass]

63. So sanctioning torture makes one "look good?"

Paint me proudly "outside of the mainstream" of the *vast* majority of torture apologists.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

67. That photo isn't "torture"

And selective outrage isn't very appealing to voters. Period.

- C.D.

[Mandate My Ass]

69. LOL, there has been no torture committed by the US

even though the US has admitted that the information gathered during torture is acceptable, even though privately owned US jets have been flying detainees to countries where torture is legal and acceptable, even though our new AG has written briefs saying the Geneva Conventions are quaint and outdated.

Yeah and Abu Ghraib was a frat prank. Mmmmmmmmmmm, yummy kool aid.:9

[ConservativeDemocrat]

72. Are you really laughing out loud?

If so, you have a strange sense of humor.

First off, as I originally pointed out to the "freeper", Abu Gharib (and things happening in Guantanamo) are torture. It's pretty obvious that this Administration is trying to propel us down that path. This is overwhelmingly immoral, but if you're really against the practice, you have to understand that stopping it requires persuading Americans who will nearly always give the troops the benefit of the doubt (which you obviously don't).

Screaming that everything our troops do is "torture" doesn't help our cause. Pointing out that real torture ("tantamount to torture") damages our international credibility, is counterproductive in stabilizing Iraq, and endangers our troops, can and does.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Mandate My Ass]

73. Screaming? You're the only one "screaming"

"...you have to understand that stopping it requires persuading Americans who will nearly always give the troops the benefit of the doubt (which you obviously don't).

Screaming that everything our troops do is "torture" doesn't help our cause."

Persuading torture apologists requires that I side with them in ignorance? If I decry torture then I am positioning myself and progressives as "obviously siding against" the troops? Maybe I'm against the military brass and Pentagon flunkies who condone and promote torture and let the grunts take the fallout whenever torture is uncovered.

Anybody who advocates that telling the truth doesn't "help our cause" is somebody who believes that we actually are engaged in a legitimate cause and that maintainingg the illusion of the false standard under which the "cause" is being promoted is more important than revealing that we're acting in violation of any and every world-recognized legal, ethical and humanitarian system of dealing with a potential threat. Iraq did nothing to us yet we invaded them. Why does telling the truth about our illegal occupation and the ongoing atrocities committed against their civilian population reflect badly on the truthtellers?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

75. "Decrying torture" loses its power if what you decry isn't actually tortur

If you "cry wolf" (or in this case - "cry torture") every time you see a prisoner in a hood, you aren't going to be listened to when you see real torture. And if you start going down the path of calling everything you disagree with "torture" (e.g. "war is torture", "being in Iraq is torture", "anyone who disagrees with me is a torture apologist"), people who don't entirely agree with you won't listen to you at all.

And please understand - this comes from someone who mostly agrees with your views...

Instead of talking about a "illegal occupation" (which smacks of giving foreigners a veto over our defense), you need to talk about how it is a counterproductive distraction from the real War On Terror.

Instead of saying "Iraq did nothing to us" (not true: they routinely took potshots at our planes enforcing the no-fly zone), simply say that Bush's invasion is obviously not worth the cost.

And before you talk about "ongoing atrocities committed against their civilian population" you make damned sure it's actual atrocities (blindfolding doesn't count), actually committed by our people, in violation of the UMCJ against actual civilians (not disguised guerrillas), before you raise a peep of criticism of the troops.

And even then, it's better to just criticize the President and the GOP for having gotten our soldiers into this unwinnable situation. At least if you want to actually persuade anybody -- which by the way, is the only way you can actually change what is going on.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Mandate My Ass]

78. For someone who claims to be a member of the "reality based"

community, there is an awful lot of spin and talking points I hear whenever you make some grandiose claim of what is and is not effective and accurate discourse. Disguised guerillas? Oh please don't tell me you think the Iraqi people who take up arms against a foreign invading force are guerillas or insurgents.

And by the way I'll raise as many peeps against the UMCJ as I damned well please with or without it meeting your specifications for its appropriateness, bucko.

The total ignorance of Iraqi culture you've demonstrated by focusing on the hood in that picture while dismissing everything else is quite telling.

Tell me, in your opinion is the UN an irrelevant debating club?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

80. Sigh...

Look "bucko" - just do us Democrats who actually win elections a favor: don't ever talk to any independent, moderate Republican, or waffling moderate Democrat. Ok? With friends like you, who needs enemies?

(Actually - I love real frothing at the mouth Freeper idiots. They help drive people to our side, kind of like you in reverse.)

Oh, and I do think the Iraqi people who take up arms against an invading force can be described both as "guerrillas" or "insurgents". But also understand that when you pretend to be a civilian when you're not, you forfeit the right to be considered a POW under Article 4 of the Geneva convention. Read it yourself.

That guy is lucky he was captured by Americans. If he was a Sunni captured by Kurds or Shites after pulling some terrorist stunt, he'd be a lot worse off than just wearing a dress.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

p.s. As to your U.N. question: no. I have never mentioned anything derogatory about the U.N. Are you debating with me, or your own imagination?

[DrWeird]

65. Yup, blatant bigotry is utterly unacceptable on the DU.

Sad that you accept it.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

70. Criticizing Muslim theocrats isn't "bigotry"

Nor is criticizing "Christian" theocrats bigotry. It's just criticism.
In fact, it's pretty reasonable criticism. People criticize "Christian" theocrats (e.g. Moral Majority)
pretty regularly around here, and nobody seems to think it's bigotry.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[maddezmom]

81. yup, I'll rip the "moral majority" when it has member like Mike Hintz

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1052860

[Forkboy]

74. Hey,that's a Proud Member of the Reality Based Community for ya

:)

[Mandate My Ass]

31. No you're a bigot because of this and this and this

Iraqi children exposed to the game of Baseball. Good or bad? That's up for debate, but the point is these children now have yet another avenue of recreation and development, that they never had before. In the past they would have had to focus on the Qu'ran, the Religion of Peace, or Saddam Hussein and his sons sponsored games to have "fun." Not anymore.

Where would these children end up if we left it in the hands of Saddam Hussein to educate, train, and teach what's right and wrong? Where would they end up? What would they be willing to do to show that hatred? A good majority of them would have been forced to the ways of the Jihadi, rather than the Democratihad (new word!).


You can see the father looking from behind as his son kisses the America Soldier, presumably in place of a "thank you" that the Iraqi child has yet to learn to say. Part of me wonders if the father, or the son, ever thought a day would come when such a thing would be allowed, let alone accepted by their peers.

[Name removed]

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[Mandate My Ass]

40. It's disgusting bigotry

and if you can't see that what you've written is filled with hatred and racism, then nothing I say is going to change your mind.

When all those darkies over there learn baseball and English and fly the stars and stripes, our illegal invasion and all our bombing of their countrypeople will be worth it. :eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

49. Dude, that line and its variations are considered lame since the 60's.

"Some of my best friends are black." Uh huh.

[Mandate My Ass]

16. You hear that

"You hear that? You crazy Mullahs. It's about time the United States of America takes an equally hardlined and force-related deterrant position towards these terrorists once and for all.

Historically the Western World (with exception of Israel) has sat back while the Islamites in the Middle East spout propaganda and anti-Americanism and shrugged it off without saying a word. We take the threats of terrorist nations like Iran who threaten to use whatever technology they can come up with to "destroy Zionist Israel and Infedel America" without threatening back."

Let's :nuke: 'em all. :boring:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. I won't even waste an alert click with this one. I'll just sit and watch

As the concrete goes by.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. GAAAAA I can't help myself

It was stronger than me. Sorry.

No, wait. I'm not sorry.

[Crunchy Frog]

53. I didn't exactly send an alert,

I just sent an excerpt to the admins from that wonderfully progressive site so they could see what a fine and upstanding new member we've just added to our community.

I'm sure they'll see it the same way, and the official welcoming committee will soon be here.:)

Edit: Oh no, he's gone already. :cry: It looks like they took his progressive website the wrong way.:-(

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. Sig lines are off. Was it there? Link please. (nt)

[DrWeird]

33. It's in his profile.

"Iran is just begging to be liberated."

[qanda]

34. Go to his profile

You'll find a link there.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. "Law Enforcement" is a HOBBY?

Jesus H. Q. Rhyste on a nukular-powered pogo stick.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

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[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

45. Whatever. Enjoy your short stay. (nt)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

52. And POOF he's gone

In case you're curious, the troll's site is http://www.kafirnifornia.net

[Crunchy Frog]

60. They're talking about a DOS attack on DU

over on that site now. http://www.itshappening.com/showthread.php?s=9fabcc47d3d4f1739784a3f77f2cc309&p=1854848#post1854848

It looks to me like they've got some penis envy issues, leading to insecurity and false bravado.:D

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

61. Tell Skinner.

Seriously. Tell Skinner about this.

[Democracy Died 2004]

66. Is this his home site?

http://www.antarius.net/whoibe/

Has all his personal info on it.

[Carl Brennan]

46. Do you like animals?

Do you like seals?

[ShaneGR]

68. This photo really isn't any big deal....

But the rest of them are:

http://cryptome.org/ik14/iraq-kill14.htm