How do you Feel about Immigration?

[MaryH]

I think we should let people in. If people are willing to risk dying to get here - and they do every day - I don't think we should send them back.

I wonder what would happen if we just had an open door policy with Mexico - where people could just come on over and work and then go back home at night. And if people work hard and want to become citizens then there should be a way for them to do it.

All of us that live here are the children of immigrants - except the Native Americans. No one wanted the Irish but they stayed and a lot of us are the children of those Irish ancestors - I know I am.

I know we would have to be careful at the gates to watch for the bad guys but I think it would be a lot easier to do that if people could just come through customs and get checked out. When they are coming in the middle of the nite it is pretty hard to see who is coming over.

[KitchenWitch]

1. Didn't you get the memo

You have to be WHITE for the door to our country to allow passage and naturalization.

[MaryH]

2. Yea, I forgot about that.

[foreigncorrespondent]

23. Didn't you get the OTHER memo?

Which states you need to be RICH, WHITE, and STRAIGHT for immigration passage and then naturalization.

[Bridget Burke]

Somebody's got to pay in to Social Security....

That is, if we're allowed to keep it.

And some of us have just neglected to reproduce--darn, I never set the alarm on my biological clock!

[tx_dem41]

6. So, we, as citizens, are obligated to reproduce?

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread.

[barb162]

39. didn't you ever hear of go forth and multiply (even if we run out

of water and food and we are standing on each other's heads)

[tx_dem41]

44. And if I am in a relationship that is unable to have.....

children, I should either not be a citizen or break my bonds and find a relationship that can bear children??? Wow, doesn't sound like a society I want to live in.

[barb162]

49. When I look at the drought situation in the west and the NOAA types

think there are trends showing the drought will continue for years, and when I look at the way other parts of the country are doing things with their aquifers( draining them dry) and on and on, I just think maybe people in this country should look at the state of the natural resources in this country FIRST. Look at the electrical grid, the natural gas, heating oil, etc., and tell me where in hell the extra power is coming from, especially when the west is losing its hydroelectric to an extent because there is less water. After that, then think about whether we should strive for zero population growth or just let any number of immigrants who want to come here enter this country or have some very low number of immigrants coming here annually.

[Strelnikov_]

9. Social Security Is In The Black Until 2055

The problem with SS is the Federal Gov borrowing from the SS trust fund. The actual deficit this year was $600b +/- with $200b +/- borrowed from the trust fund.

[TahitiNut]

10. Just what, exactly, would you invest the SS Trust Fund in?

I get verklempt every time I see someone claim that the Trust Fund only contains IOU's or that the money is merely being used to finance the deficit. (Please note that the Federal Debt is only about 30% held by the SS Trust Fund.)

I am unaware of any reputable thinking that burying cash in a mayonnaise jar in the back yard is somehow wiser than putting it into T-Bills, generally recognized as the safest 'investment.' While T-Bills don't pay the highest interest rates available, mayonnaise jars pay no interest.

I am unaware of any 'reserve,' whether it be corporate or public, that's not invested in some kind of security.

If the Federal government EVER defaults on Treasury securities, the solvency of Social Security will be the LEAST of our problems.

[Strelnikov_]

14. Then You Agree, There Is Not A Problem With Social Security

And that the problem lies with the Federal budget in general. That is, the Federal Government's ability to pay it's debt's.

And no, I do not believe that monies owed to the SS trust fund will be treated the same as T-Bills held by private entities when the crises comes. Doesn't the Reich Wing attempt to 'fix' social security illustrate the fact that they view the trust fund and the general budget as the same account?

[AirAmFan]

20. This isn't the place to discuss this, and usually I agree with you 100%,

but IMO you're not grasping a fundamental fact here: Thanks to ingenious chicanery by Alan Greenspan when he headed Reagan's Social Security Commission, Social Security is completely on the honor system.

There's a hugh difference between Treasury defaulting on PUBLICLY HELD debt, such as T-bills or bonds, and Congress reneging on financing negative cash flow for Social Security in a decade or so. If Treasury failed to redeem any PUBLICLY HELD debt when due, future lenders would look elsewhere for future investment opportunities, or demand substantial risk premia from Treasury.

But if the White House and Congress "reformed" Social Security, so that the trillions of extra FICA taxes collected since Greenspan raised them in the 80s are not used for Baby Boomers' retirement checks, workers would not be able to withhold their future FICA payments. The Social Security Act would mandate that workers continue to pay FICA, just the way they have for seventy years.

Since Reagan, Social Security "reform" has been a clever hoax that has swindled TRILLIONS of dollars from workers for Republican budget priorities, such as cutting marginal tax rates for the wealthy from 70 percent to 28 percent. Before the 1982 reform, there was no substantial positive FICA cash flow--what came in was just enough to pay what went out in benefits, with a bit extra to spare. Greenspan saw to it that trillions of dollars in positive cash flow would build up, but that no law not easily overturned obligated Congress to actually use those trillions for Baby Boomers' retirement. Those trillions all have been spent profligately, mainly by Reagan and Bush Junior, and "Social Security reform" again promises to see to it that Congress need not borrow or use income tax revenues to make up the negative cash flow a decade from now.

Indeed, I suspect that talk of "Social Security reform" is just ANOTHER HOAX to raise even more trillions to be squanderd by future Republicans. There well may be no IRA-like accounts for young workers in our future, but there definitely will be higher FICA rates to swindle more trillions form workers.

[Bridget Burke]

3. Accidental Duplicate...

Oh, well.

[flordehinojos]

4. Please note that those who are being rounded up and being sent back all

have anywhere from light brown to darker tone skin colors. white immigrants have the doors wide open. i've a european friend who has visited the u.s. several times this last year and is being sent letters by INS asking if she wants a green card? as a european her skin is WHITE...therefore she is, in a sense, being invited to receive a green card!

[420inTN]

57. About 6 or 7 years ago...

my girlfriend (at that time) had family in England. They tried applying for extended VISAs to come into the country, and couldn't get them (they are white). I told her to tell them to fly to mexico (or canada) and just cross the border. However, they wanted to emigrate legally, and were roadblocked by red tape.

[radenkofanuka]

5. America

I dedicate this essay to every person who loves and belives in America.

America
November 2, 2004 was Election Day in America. The sun rose just in time on that day, as did the American people. The two political parties moved forward with great balance, just like a seesaw. On November 3rd, both parties landed on their strong feet with certain balance, just as God’s creation requires.
America always was, and still is, a blessed land. It is a land where immigrants from around the world land, and like the birds, safely build their nests. This world is surrounded by a mirror. America, look and you will sure see your own beauty and worth.
November 2, 2004 was a day that must be recorded in history, for it is a day of hope for a better world and a healthier nature. Our world needs help, and within it, there is absolutely no room for hate. It is sad, for in my mind and in my eyes, I feel and see that the world has turned around only once just like a wheel since the days of World War II. The turn made was not a very smooth one.
America has always been, and still is, the greatest mother our world can have. Current times are begging America for help together with the rest of the world. With truth at its side, the world can help itself.
Presently, the world needs to slow its pace and think and evaluate much more than it has ever thought before. This must be done, however, without wasting too much time. Current times and the world’s nature depend on us. Health and peace is what human life and the rest of nature require. Health and peace are the biggest, most valuable fortunes humans can ever find on this earth.
Past history has reflected, and present days are still craving nature’s unfulfilled needs. The worst has happened. Nature has been, and is repeatedly wounded. Steps were taken which superceded God’s creations and taken his law, in vain. Nature has not been helped or improved.
Earth and its soil of innumerable, sweet, minute components of various shapes and colors has been bound with love and respect. It is God’s law of love and respect which holds together the soil, the earth and all of nature’s life. Without it, nature will suffer in the similar way a flower suffers without water and sunlight. Eventually, both will wither away slowly.
Love and respect are two beautiful, healthy gifts given to us by God. They should be shared by the entire world and its nature. I don’t believe that there is anyone who doesn’t like to be loved or respected. It would be difficult to ask, and even more impossible to know, or think, that such a dismal world could ever exist. I do believe that no philosopher can ever be found who would not agree that love and respect are two beautiful essential gifts, and that they should be utilized daily.
Our earth’s soil has similar needs as our bodies and minds. We both need one truth, pure-organic food, clean water and air. We must be aware that whatever our minds can adapt to, our bodies and our health are unable to do. This world needs healers, teachers and leaders who can help all of nature, starting from the simplest, and smallest, to the most complex living things. We need healers, teachers and leaders who can help today’s innocent children who suffer. They can make possible their mother’s needs for a better world. This goes for the rich and the poor, and people of all colors, races and creeds, who can help children who will be born to those mothers.
In a relatively young 21st century, a new base must be built and a key which will fit in each decade’s door lock must be found. The key must be made with respect and love. A key made of anything else will rust, and the world consequently will get stuck behind two doors.
Someone who has accepted in heart and mind an artificial flower that lacks any scent, will say that I went too far. My reply to that person is, “No, I did not go too far. I am attempting to return home.” It is also possible that my readers might say that my writing has too often shown words of nature and God’s name. If people do not help nature’s balance to heal, we won’t be able to defend ourselves or fight against the tiniest living things. Our health, bodies and minds will not be able to fight back.
Yesterday, I had cause for a good laugh. It occurred when someone told me that my book mentions America so many times, and he wanted to know why it did so. My response to him was, “And what are you doing here in America?” At that exact moment, the unmentionable days of World War II and specifically the days of 1943, when I was nearly 5 years old, came to my mind. I remembered one unforgettable, cold morning when my father walked in through our doorstep and announced that he was on call to fight the Nazis. My mother began crying as she lifted me up and put me on her shoulder. Then, she proceeded to follow my father. I remember asking her, “Where are we going?” Her reply was, “Don’t worry, America will help us.”
It is now 61 years later and I would like to tell the whole world that my poor mother’s words were correct. America did help us! American has not changed. The whole world should know that there is no room left on this planet for hate. America and the world together, only with peace, will be able to achieve peace for our innocent children’s future lives. World, we better be good to one another! When we ask for less, I assure you, we can receive much more. World, don’t you see, we lost all our friends. Indirectly, entire nature is fighting back against us, humans. This is a very sad moment for me and for my writing, but I do know this world is filled with good people and God is good. Therefore, I live with a new hope. Nature will accept human help and heal itself quickly. God’s law is based on love in turn for love, and it will work without any questions asked. It has been working for ants and the honeybees, so why can’t it work for us, human beings? My hope is as high as that of ants and honeybees. I have faith in America. America remains and must remain strong. What can this world do and what would it be like without you, America?

I, Radenko Fanuka, am the author of RELECTIONS: PERSONALIZING LIFE, NATURE, MAN AND GOD.

[Sapphocrat]

35. This is a joke, right?

If "both parties landed on their strong feet with certain balance, just as God's creation requires," then I'm a young, rich heterosexual with a crush on Ann Coulter. And if "America has always been, and still is, the greatest mother our world can have," then I have very little hope for the world (and I apologize profusely to our more progressive friends in Europe, Canada, and Australia, on behalf of Yanks who can't see beyond the ends of their noses).

As for that well-meaning but sadly-deluded mother ("Don't worry, America will help us"), let me tell you a little story:

The dam broke, and the entire region was flooded. Everyone else evacuated, but one farmer stayed. "God will save me!" he declared.

His neighbor rowed up in a small boat and shouted to the farmer, "Get in, or you'll drown!" The farmer shouted back, "No, I'm staying! God will save me!"

As the water rose, the farmer went upstairs to the second floor. That's when a powerboat pulled up, and the game warden at the wheel urged the farmer to come away with him. "No!" shouted the farmer, "I'm staying! God will save me!"

Finally, the water rose so high that the farmer had to climb onto the roof of the house. Just then, a helicopter appeared overhead and dropped a rope ladder. "No," shouted the farmer, "I'm staying! God will save me!"

Well, the farmer drowned.

He arrived at the Pearly Gates, where he met St. Peter. "Why didn't God save me?!" asked the farmer.

"We sent you a rowboat, a motorboat, and a helicopter," replied St. Peter. "What more did you want?"

Moral of the story: Faith is a fine thing indeed, but faith without action can kill you.

[amazona]

7. No I support zero population growth

I'm sorry but we are destroying what our wild as it is. The door should be closed, and we should be making every effort to make life better in their home countries.

The most unique thing about our heritage is our frontier. We are killing it. Drying it out. Eating it up with cows. Burning it down. You can't have an ever-expanding population and also have the wild. Go to Europe. It's a nice place to visit but, in the end, you are constantly jogging elbows with people. We can't all live closed in with other people like that.

The GOP is now supporting amnesty/immigration because they want near-slaves to do their lawns and clean their toilets on the cheap. I don't want my nation over-populated so every upper middle class twit can his own personal toilet-cleaner and lawn care guy. I'm good enough to mow my own lawn. My dad was good enough to mow his own lawn. I don't need to import people living at slave wages to do that job.

We need to secure our own home -- clean up our air and water, protect our own wildlife -- before we try to feed and house even more people.

Take a look at what is happening to Ireland. They threw open their borders to cure the under-population problem. It's cured, all right. They've paved the entire country over!

[Bridget Burke]

12. Overpopulation is a worldwide problem.

It will not be possible to turn the US into a gated community.

And where did you learn Irish history?

[barb162]

18. should overpopulation elsewhere be "cured" by swinging the doors

open here?

[Bridget Burke]

24. The doors ARE open here.

They've been open forever. Pollution from maquiladoras along the River won't stop at the border.

[barb162]

25. Yes I know; I think we should swing the doors closed

[barb162]

19. I support zero population growth also; I think right now the human

race is polluting up this planet and if there are any more people it will just be destroyed faster. We are destroying vast tracts of forests worldwide, polluting water, destroying coral reefs, causing global warming, wiping out other species, etc.

"We need to secure our own home -- clean up our air and water, protect our own wildlife -- before we try to feed and house even more people." TOTALLY AGREE!

[Strelnikov_]

8. With A Guest Worker Program, Along With Enforcement Of Laws

regarding hiring of immigrants, minimum wage and workplace safety, I have no problem.

Otherwise, unlimited immigration will continue to fuel the labor black market that serves the Iron Heel by driving down wages and destroying the middle class.

It is simply the law of supply and demand as defined by the Iron Heel. That is, for the jobs that cannot be exported to low 'wage slave' countries, flooding of the labor pool with illegal immigrants will drive down wages for those jobs.

In other words, if you are willing to lower living standards for 80% of the US population to your average Central American country, I guess you would be a fan of unlimited illegal immigration.

I, myself, prefer a Guest Worker program, which allows a path to citizenship, to fill true labor shortages, not those shortages created by the Iron Heel with substandard wages and working conditions.

[primavera]

63. It's a little more complicated than that

You're quite right that undocumented labor is heavily relied upon by agriculture in particular to keep the costs down. Undocumented laborers will work long hours for low wages because, relative to where they're coming from, the wages they're receiving are fairly high.

However, suppose you were to eliminate undocumented migrant labor and agriculture had to satisfy all of its labor needs from US workers. Labor is the main cost in agriculture, so an increase in wages paid to workers is going to have a major impact on the cost of produce. Higher prices for domestic produce are going to encourage imports of cheaper produce from Chile and Guatemala or wherever. That's going to result in agriculture clamoring for greater subsidies and protection. How much more are you willing to pay, indirectly through taxes, and directly at the supermarket, for your produce? Now ask yourself, what if you were a minimum wage worker, would you still be willing to pay, say, 50-100% more your tomatoes?

I think immigration really needs to be recognized more as a symptom than an illness per se. This country is totally obsessed with keeping consumer prices low. We pay less, as a percentage of our income, for food than any other country on earth. 10% of our income goes to feeding ourselves; in France, the second place runner-up, that figure is 20% and the rest of the world goes up from there.

Although it's easy to say that people ought to pay a more realistic price for goods, it goes to the heart of our economy. Businesses like to keep prices low because it means they can hire people for $5/hr and those people can kinda sorta survive. If the cost of food were to double, people wouldn't able to afford to work for those wages anymore. Even the poor souls working at MalWart would have to demand an increase in wages to meet their increased food bills, so everyone's cheap plastic crap would have to increase in price as well. The ripple effects would be beyond your wildest imagination, because food costs, as something every living person has no choice but to pay, underly almost everything else in an economy.

If the Walton family had to pay their workers a living wage, god help us, their individual fortunes might suffer and we certainly can't have that! So really, you can't talk about undocumented labor and not get into a much, much bigger issue of this country's obscenely inequitable distribution of income, which in turn cuts into the whole American dream, becoming a millionaire in ones own lifetime mythology.

Mind you, I think it needs to be addressed, but brace yourself for a real shitstorm, because it's one hell of a pandora's box to open.

[Tighthead Prop]

11. Immigration isn't the Devil

I think we should let them in. As long as they are coming here to work and try to make a better life for themselves, who cares? People have been coming to our country for hundreds of years for this reason. Unfortunately, this has been tightly squeezed after 9/11. Security is important, but this is just another example of our citizens being willing to sacrifice the principles on which we were founded for some superficial feeling of being safe from this "war on terror".

[Johonny]

13. You know

We have a prefectly legal immigration procedure. What message do you send the people in the process or that have gone the process when suddenly allow law breakers a free pass? I think many Americans would like more equity on the educational and finanical level of our current immgration practice. I think they would also like a worker pass policy for workers from NAFTA countries. I hate the idea of a blind open door policy.

[AirAmFan]

15. Southern pols say "immigrant" the same way they said "n..r" 40-50 yrs ago,

and for the same reason. They are a convenient scapegoat for declining economic conditions for a shrinking middle class. "They" are taking "our" jobs. "They" are taking unfair advantage of education, health care, and other government services "we" pay for.

Never mind the facts, that Social Security payroll taxes are the highest taxes paid by most workers, that immigrants who pay FICA never will be able to collect benefits, that Republican "tax cuts" are gutting education, health care, and other government services for the benefit of the very wealthy.

If the states of the old Confederacy were closer to the border with Canad than to Mexico, immigration would be a non-issue in this country. But "Southern Strategy" Republicans have found a political goldmine, as long as they don't slip and use the "n" word when they're thinking it.

[QC]

53. Pete Wilson is a Southerner?

I seem to remember him running on a "Blame the Mexicans for Everything" Platform and winning two gubernatorial elections in California. I guess that means Californians are Southerners. Golly, you really do learn something new every day around here!

[napi21]

16. I disagree! We should fight hard to improve our enforcement

of immegration policies, but there are procedures to be a legal, ragistered immegrant. This BS about illegals or undocumented persons is just that...BS! There are lots of benefits to comming to the US. Some are jobs and health care. Our laws dictate that an emergency room can't turn anyone away, which is a good thing, but we cannot continue to provide services to so many that the the legal residents of our country cannot afford it anymore.

Illegals who do get jobs here are unfairly taken advantage of by greedy employers who will hire the cheapest body they can find, and work them to death if given the chance.

Force anyone who wants to come here to go through the legal chanels to do so and you cure both problems.

[barb162]

27. good points

[Sapphocrat]

37. One tiny problem...

"Force anyone who wants to come here to go through the legal chanels to do so and you cure both problems."

The problem is that the "legal channels" are not egalitarian, nor fairly applied, by any means. The injustice of U.S. immigration law as it applies (or doesn't) to same-sex partners is only the tip of the iceberg (although, in my situation, it means everything) -- what about "legitimate" immigrants (say, foreign heterosexuals who marry Americans) who may spend upwards of seven years waiting for the paperwork to come through?

What about asylum seekers? I have corresponded with a dozen or more people who have been denied asylum in the U.S., despite their lives being in very real danger in their home counties -- and yet know more than a few who zipped right through the process with ease, even though their own countries (presumably) no longer pose a danger. Why? The successful refugees had money, skills, connections, or all three. The unsuccessful ones didn't.

Finally, one doesn't need a "legitimate" reason to immigrate to the U.S. if one has enough money to buy one's way in. If you're rich enough -- or famous enough -- you are welcome here. (What chance do you suppose John Lennon, with his drug-conviction record, would have had at even permanent residency if he had not been who he was?)

By the way, not everyone who wants to live in the U.S. does so just for the monetary "benefits"; my Australian partner would be a fool if that was her reasoning -- Australia has the sort of universal healthcare we only dream of here, a job network that actually gets (and keeps) people employed, etc., etc., etc.

That said, we definitely need sweeping immigration reform -- but not in the sense in which the phrase is usually meant.

Native Americans aside, this is a nation of immigrants, and it was the poor laborers, the "undesirables" -- the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese, and everybody else who withstood passage in steerage, with no guarantee of acceptance -- who built this America of ours from the ground up. When we forget that -- when we get greedy, because we've got "ours," so screw "them" -- then The New Colossus becomes a bad joke:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I for one still believe in every word of that.

[movie_girl99]

17. my husband is from England

we consulted an immigration attorney to find out the quickest way to get him here so that he could work legally. It cost us a f'in fortune but it was worth every penny. It pisses me off though when i see so many coming here, paying no taxes and sending most of what they make back across the borders to build homes to go back to years down the line. Its seems as if those who do it right are punished in some ways.

[sweetheart]

21. I'm for reciprocity

If 100,000 people come from the UK, then 100,000 americans should
have the right to live in the UK. If 1m come from mexico, then
similarly.

7 million americans are abroad leaving open their places, in a zero
growth paradigm. Frankly, i'm not worried about immigration. It is
a non-event, something that evil politicians for generations have
made attacks on, as those people are not represented by the body
politic and are easy prey.

The grossly fat military budget would pay for social services for
everyone, and the world's wealthiest nation should not be bickering
about paying for someone's retirement, education or health services
as it is trivial expenses. Rather we should be questioning why
we're spending hundreds of billions in an asian desert quagmire.

[barb162]

26. "retirement, education or health services...trivial expenses"

Not only is this incorrect so are some of your other points. The military budget is ridiculously expensive, agreed, but there is no way that we could stop the entire military budget even when it was "bare bones" like under Clinton. Even if you reduced the military to zero, with zero security for the USA, scrapped every aircraft carrier, etc., you still wouldn't be paying for education, health services, etc.

[sweetheart]

29. the military budget is way over the top

A 10% cut in the military budget would pay for all the shortfalls in
the other areas. Frankly a 50% cut is in order, and had we today
the money that it will cost to keep an army in iraq for the next
year, it would cover all the social needs of immigrants and natives
regarding social services.

This tightwad mentality at home, and then generous spending of billions
on military actions, is really bizarre. Better we are less generous
with the mass murder and more so with the people whom we live side
by side with.

[Sapphocrat]

38. Question...

Even if you reduced the military to zero, with zero security for the USA, scrapped every aircraft carrier, etc., you still wouldn't be paying for education, health services, etc.

Then how do countries like Canada and Australia (to name just two) manage to maintain a military and provide some of the finest universities in the world, as well as reliable, working universal healthcare, with top-notch hospitals and research facilities (e.g., Monash U. medical center, for one), and public-assistance programs that work to make citizens independent instead of dependent, and public schools where the teachers aren't buying pencils and paper out of their own pockets?

Canada and Australia aren't exactly Third World countries; if they can do it, why can't we? Nobody's saying you have to scrap the entire military -- Canada and Australia certainly haven't scrapped theirs -- but there is such a thing as proportion. And perhaps our priorities -- and that includes military spending -- are wildly disproportionate.

[barb162]

40. Well, proportion is the magic word. When after WW2 we became the

world's peacekeeper, certain things became expected of us. Why we still have troops and bases in Korea, Germany, Japan, etc is beyond me especially 60 or so years after the war is over. It would be great if we could pare down the military to Canada's level; I think all this military spending we do drains our resources in many ways.

But now that we have been attacked, most people cannot be convinced of cutting military spending

[Siyahamba]

22. Permanent Partners Immigration Act

If you've not heard of it, please take a moment to look it over:
http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Permanent_Partners_Immigration_Act&Template=/TaggedPage/TaggedPageDisplay.cfm&TPLID=23&ContentID=13235

Currently, many partners of US citizens (myself included) are unable to immigrate because we happen to be of the same sex. Opposite sex partners have no such roadblocks - they can just get married. This act has been introduced in Congress a few times, and each time it gets more cosponsors. Encouraging, but progress has still been slow. If people could contact their representatives and show their support it would do a world of good.

[Sapphocrat]

36. Welcome to our (small) club, Siyahamba!

Not that membership in the Binational Couples' Club is one I would wish on anyone, but as long as you're here... :hi:

My other half, foreigncorrespondent (she's Aussie, I'm Yank), and I have been working for the PPIA for years (literally).

What country are you from?

[Siyahamba]

46. Thank you!

I'm glad I'm not alone here. :)

I'm from Canada. I know legality-wise, it would be much much easier for my partner to come to Canada. But he owns and operates a business, and he has family in the US, while I don't have much holding me in Canada. So for now, I'm in the US on a student visa.

I'm so glad to hear you've been working on the PPIA. :hug:

[FlatJack]

28. stop immigration

I'm for stopping most immigration. But my family are all immigrants to the US.

0 pop growth is all over the first world, except the US, it's the only first world country that has an organic population growth. Every other country must immigrate or lose population.

Is the answer to stop immigration? Or is the answer to bring the third world into the first world and end overpopulation?

[Bridget Burke]

32. There's only one world.

The US can't be a Gated Community.

[sadiesworld]

33. Gated communities for only sections of the US.

:bounce:

[barb162]

41. Or is the answer birth control, plain and simple

[TankLV]

30. If it wasn't for immigration, none of us would be in the USA now.

Interesting point.

I have a theory that, like the old Soviet block countries, because it was forbidden to leave, practically everyone wanted to as soon as a circumstance came available.

But once all barriers were lifted - good old procrastination set in - because as long as one cana do it anytime, "maybe tomorrow" which never comes, became the timetable for the vast majority.

After all, it is quite an ordeal to uproot everything one has know all one's life to risk the unknown in an unknown land.

I believe that the similar but opposite will happen if all barriers to immigration were lifted. At first there would be many, but it would eventually be reduced to a trickle.

Just my observations and 2 cents worth.

[barb162]

51. Let's say you are wrong and there is an endless stream of people

that want to come here. At what point would you say the population would be too high? 500 million people? 800 million?

[11 Bravo]

31. Unless one is a Native American

blanket condemnations of immigration are slightly hypocritical.

[cattleman22]

43. Are you claiming that the ancestors of Native Americans did not immigrate

to North America?

[11 Bravo]

45. The word "Native" presupposes that they were the first ones here.

Some Indian religions are adherents of the belief that the people have always been here, and therefore did NOT immigrate. Argue with them.

[cattleman22]

61. They did immigrate here first, but they are still immigrants. n/y

[One_Life_To_Give]

34. One Question

What about the potential immigrants from Mexico who are waiting patiently for their immigration to be approved before coming to the US? If they are already following the process and not violating immigration laws, shouldn't they be put ahead of all those who come here by illicit means?

[420inTN]

58. Yes, they should. n/t

[cattleman22]

42. As no humans evolved in North America, everyone, including Native

Americans are immigrants. Why do you feel the need belittle Native Americans and say that their ancestors did not also immigrate to this land?

[Mr.Green93]

47. Open the doors

to destroy the white hegemony.

[cidliz2004]

48. It shouldn't be so open

In fact it should be closed for while the following problems still plague this country: While we still have citizens with no health care, children that go hungry, schools that need funding and are inadequately educating our children, seniors eating dogfood, seniors deciding whether they eat or get medicine, single mothers unable to afford childcare to work and pay rent, unemployment of our citizens, the inability to provide social services to our citizens, but the ability to provide them for immigrants that come into this country and don't even speak English and are getting Governmental benefits immediately. While our country is still trying to provide security to thwart off any future terror attacks.

Sorry, I believe in the airline rule: In an emergency when the oxygen mask drops down, take it and place it on yourself FIRST, so that you are ADEQUATELY able to care for others.

I would rather have our Government and/or charities send a check to help people where they live so that they will not become an endless drain on our citizens.

Call me selfish, but I believe that citizens that have lived in this country for a generation or two should actually be able to "collect" some of the benefits that this country has had to offer. When I look at my retirement, which won't be in the too distant future and I see the taxes that I pay and the Social Security being depeleted, well I don't want to eat dogfood or choose my medication. I, afterall paid into Social Security for the last 30 years, I feel ENTITLED to the benefits that I contributed towards. AND until this house get put back in order - close the door, roll your sleeves up and lets get to work.

[barb162]

50. good points, I agree

I look at this country right now as a real mess in the social services and other areas and we should get it straightened out before we let others come in. You are not selfish!

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NurseLefty]

54. Is this the Pat Buchanan Guest Thread or what? Sheesh.

We are a nation of immigrants. Always have been, always will be. Get used to it.
:eyes:
Besides, why worry? Some of us are leaving, anyway.
edited for typo

[Bridget Burke]

55. The Nuevo Know-Nothings are coming on strong.

And they sound just as stupid now as when they were posting those signs: "No Irish Need Apply"

[masaka___]

56. If people want to come here, let them.

Borders are an artificial construct.

When you look at the Earth from space, there are no lines between lands that separate us.

[William Bloode]

59. Personally....

I have no problems with immigration. That being said, i do have a problem with control of it. At this time we don't have nor are creating enough jobs for ourselves, much less a plethora of immigrants coming across the border.

I don't think we need new laws, i just think we need to enforce the ones we have. At my last place of employment(10yrs)i was contacted by the I.R.S wanting to know why i was making 2 paychecks from the same company!?!?! Come to find out we had a Hispanic working under my S.S. #. I also found out we had 15 Hispanics working under 1 single S.S..


Times are now hard here, NAFTA really screwed us and thousands of jobs have went over the border. I was actually offer a high paying temp job to move temporarily to Mexico to train my replacements. Of course i declined, i just couldn't work pro actively in the outsourcing of my job.

That being said, with such a tight job market now there is intense competition. In just about 8yrs we went from having more jobs than people to folks begging to work at McDonald's. It is causing allot of stress between citizen residents and the immigrant population. This is going to be bad before long as i have already seen marches in town. I often get odd looks when i try and tell folks, "hey if you lived in poor ass Mexico you would be breaking your neck to get here too.

I bear Hispanics no ill will i see their plight. But sometimes the house is full, and we must look to take care of what we got, and not worry about others.

As far as them dieing in the desert, if the laws already on the books were enforced, instead of the complacency we have now, maybe so many would not try it if they knew it just meant getting sent back.

[Sugarbleus]

60. Against immigration...especially illegal immigration..

I think we should tighten the borders and the coastlines for people smuggling people into this country. Our natural resources can't handle it, they increasingly take up too many jobs that teenagers and others can take and the risk of unsavory characters sneaking in is too high.

My maternal grandparents were emmigres from Russia--Germans from Russia. At early 20th century during the Bolshevik Revolution. The criteria for entering the US was extremely tight. My grandfather made it in through USA, his wife, my grandmother had to go through Canada.

They had to have a skill and go forth to work that skill. They had to be disease free also.

People always focus on Mexico when we think of immigration. That is a huge problem since so many illegals sneak over the border, but it's not the only problem. The 9/11 killers came in with ease. A couple were even registered to vote! They held driver's licenses with no back ground checks...these are unacceptable violations of immigration. During a time of threat, we SHOULD tighten our borders. It's only logical.

In terms of Mexican illegals, I feel for those who simply want to work. I like the idea of creating a workers visa thingy, where we can keep track of those folks and allow them to go home when they are done OR apply for citizenship. I am not for ripping up families that are already established here.

My deepest personal outrage over Mexican illegals is with Vincente Fox! What the fuck is he doing with his own people?! They have billionaires living in Mexico! This country does business with them and they can't take care of their own citizens???????

I often fume and entertain the idea of kicking Fox's ass in terms of making him live up to human rights and modern progress for his citizens! Tourists spend a whopping amount of money down there; they have some industry. Americans are building expensive homes in Mexico now! SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE! If that Fascist asshole Vincente Fox can't provide for his own citizens,then we should take the country as our own.

Canada doesn't have zillions of poor immigrants flooding across the borders.......they provide a society that WORKS for all it's citizens. Why isn't Mexico doing it? There is an unsavory alliance between Mexico and the American Government that ought to be exposed...if you notice, our government isn't NEARLY as harsh to Mexican illegals as it is with Haitian and Cuban and Asian illegals...why is that? What's going on?

American employers and American Government officials WANT cheap labor. It's unfair for the Mexicans and it's unfair to American workers. There is much more to this story but I've gone on too long.

BTW, my grandson is Mexican; his father an absent illegal. I live in Calif where the Mexican population is very large. I grew up here. My friends are Mexican...many long term illegals. The stories THEY tell about what's going on in Mexico is aweful! They are decent, family oriented people, just like any other group of human beings. They leave their families to come here because we have "structure", some employment, and the fair rule of law.

If Mexico was like the rest of the industrialized countries, perhaps fewer people would be FLOODING across our borders for safty and livlihood--we might be going there instead. These folks are caught in the middle of this political hotbutton issue. FIX AMERICAN/MEXICO/CENTRAL AMERICA RELATIONS! South America seems to be limping along fairly well, interestingly enough.

[PATRICK]

62. I should not be allowed to immigrate

They should fish me out of the Niagara and send me back or put me in detention in one of the Casino basements. They should not even have a quota of acceptable Americans or scientists who would steal the jobs of foreign scientists who actually have jobs and a government who listens to them.

I should be forced back to change my country from within or prove I would be actually subject to deadly harm more than derision or an audit. Who knows what diseases or burdens I would bring that would hurt the host country? Where would they put me? In the melting Tundra? In some barrio in Tijuana? free medical care and education and a free press on top of all that? Would I bring fraud and crime with me like a van load of twinkies?

Deport me to Ireland if you will, but do not let me immigrate.