Are You still paying attention?

[Armstead]

I'm just curious how many of you give a shit anymore, since the election. I don't mean intellectually, but in your gut.

Me? I suppose I give a shit intellectually, but it all seems irrelevant right now. I'm happier not thinking about much beyond my own immediate circle. I find the news irrelevant. I find Air America kind of boring. I listen to more music now. The bad news just rolls off my back.

The last two years it all seemed to have a point. Every scandal was a cause for outrage to be harnessed. Every embarassment to the Bush administration seemed like another possible crack in the dike. The burst of energy and the positive things that happened on the left and even the battles and eventual unifying among Democrats seemed to be building steam.

But post-election, there doesn't seem any point to it all. The situation's no better and no worse that it was before the election, but now it just seems like bullshit has just become the status quo.

Enough Americans proved to be knuckleheads in their support of more of the same that it seems like we're up against the whole damn country and culture now, instead of it being a fight. And maybe, we deserve what we get.

Bush is still the embarassing and destructive force he was before. But even though he now has more power, he also seems more irrelevant. We're stuck with him and his motlety crew, and getting worked up about it seems as useless as griping about the weather or getting bummed out because of the bexistance of death or illness. It's just a fact of life.

Meanwhile, the zany Democrats are turning back into turtles. Rather than building on the rediscovered liberal passioin, they seem determined to snuff it out. Can't have any of those Michael Moore/ Howard Dean types. We have to become even more bland and more boring.

I guess this is just post election debacle letdown. Hopefully this too shall pass....Or maybe it shouldn't pass. Let 'em rape and pillage and steal the country. At this point, they're welcome to it as far as I'm concerned.

I'm just wondering if this sense of political irrelevancy is shared by otehr DUers. Or if you still feel the same sense of politicval purpose, and the election just increased your determination.

[Must_B_Free]

1. sums up my feeling

been there done that

what's there to get excited about? seen it all before...

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. I honestly don't want to vote anymore

I still listen to Air America but I am not watching any TV news. I swear every time I turn on any news, I see *'s face and I want to vomit.

I am pretty disillusioned. I believe with every cell in my brain that the repukelicans stole the election. And I am extremely disappointed in the Dem party's lack of response to that. Makes me wonder if they have also rigged elections in the past and are afraid to speak out.

It is all pretty disheartening.

[Imperialism Inc.]

3. I'm sad to say I feel the same way for the most part.

I am taking part in the Ohio recount but in general I have lost hope for this country. Maybe being up against the largest , the most honed media machine ever, the most Machiavellian group to occupy the White House and a population dumbed down and controlled by their emotions is simply too much to overcome.

[Taxloss]

7. That machine is doing a shit job if it can only convince 51%.

The battle is there to win.

[Armstead]

8. I see you're a glass half full type

I guess the totals this time are a real litmus test for that theory.

[Taxloss]

9. I suppose so.

On 3 Nov, I noticed the sky hadn't fallen in and I was happy that the gang of crooks that created the mess would be the gang of crooks that would have to clear up the mess.

Democratic landslide in '08. Mark my words. If there is an election then ...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. Yep. Sure am.

And I will not knuckle under for any of them. That's what they want, and I ain't in a giving mood.

[Armstead]

6. Kudos to you

I hope there's more in your mood than mine about it.

[sadinred]

5. me too,

I can barely read the vote fraud stuff, or the newest Bush happenings. None of it seems to mean anything anymore. All lies. I check out DU and fromthewilderness.com only. I find myself in the lounge and DU groups more than in the "serious" forums nowadays. There's so much shit happening it's painful.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. In the former East Germany, there was a phenomenon know as

"inner migration." People didn't want to support the Communist government, and rebellion was hopeless, so they withdrew from politics entirely and found their satisfactions wherever they could in hobbies or reading or music or whatever.

It sounds like some of you are doing the same. I understand the feeling, but I'm not totally without hope.

I believe that just hating the Bush administration isn't enough. We have to provide a compelling alternative vision.

[Armstead]

16. Yes, but who's goping to sell it?

" believe that just hating the Bush administration isn't enough. We have to provide a compelling alternative vision."

I agtree to a point. But I think there are already many compelling alternative visions. But without an open media and with no political party that is committed to supporting any alternatives, there is the question of what to do about it.

That's the difference between BE (before election) and now. Therte seems to be no framework for any kind of change, so we're just stuck in the muck in terms of social change.

Don't worry, I'll get beyond this. I always do. But I don;t see the poilitical process as being paricularly relevant until we can dig up some real leaders again.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Do what the far-right Republicanites did after Goldwater:

start small and concentrate on winning local offices, where nobody is paying any attention. You can get a lot done that affects people's lives in a local office.

[proud patriot]

11. I'm easing my way back in

In my gut , I know I need to keep on keeping on .

[mmonk]

12. I'm having a hard time with it

I have two sons, one with a learning disability. My instincts are in survival mode right now. I'm torn from being more politically active even post election, to keeping an eye out at what we may lose further in terms of rights and a society and adjusting my family's future accordingly. It's with me every day.

[MsConduct]

13. It's the 'knuckleheads' who deserve what they get...

we're just being taken along on the ride to Hell.

[twenty2strings]

14. I think that this is a great time to be alive...but..

It is hard to know what will give us the best investment for our time. By all means think about the best thing you can do to make things better. love hard. Get in touch with every old friend that you ever cared about. You may find that you were right all along and you are not alone. Don't be afraid to die. :hug:

[kentuck]

15. There's something that's been buzzing about my head....

for some days now....I suppose if I would simply raise my right hand, I could snatch it out of the air and study it more closely. I could see the sharp teeth of the little varmint, just rarin' to chew at my conscience....However, I ignore the buzzing about my head because I sense that if I surrender to its charms, it may be ten times worse than we can even imagine...

[Armstead]

32. That's a gruesome image

Makes my ennui seem tame by comparison. :)

[UdoKier]

17. Kind of. Like democracy is over.

Not much to do until they go too far and things reach a boiling point. We're kind of in the nether region between the point when democracy died a silent death, and the point when reality shows and cheap crap at Wal-mart are no longer enough to distract the majority from their plummeting incomes, benefits, job security and opportunities.

Of course there is a sliver of hope that the Ohio recount business may amount to something, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Beam Me Up]

18. It's over. Any last vestige of illusion I may have had about this country

being a functioning democratic republic is gone. Now all that is left is for the economic/social situation to slowly grow increasingly worse -- which I believe it will -- and for there to be another, far greater than 9/11, "terrorist attack" -- which will give the neocons everything they want. With one more disaster they will claim the necessity to have tactical first-strike nuclear capacity against anyone they deem to be a "terrorist" state. And, as the world grows increasingly set against the last vestiges of our imperial hegemony, there will be lots of potential targets. This next "event" will give them the draft -- which they will have to have. It will also make decent "unthinkable." With a half million dead and the loss of an entire city who could THINK of opposing whatever retribution our 'commander-n-chief' dictates?

It is over. We are now living inside a police state that is congealing around us fast enough that we -- those of us who participate in this forum -- can feel it -- but not so fast that the ordinary person who still trusts the 'government' and the 'media' can feel it. In any case, the infrastructure is ALREADY in place. There will be no decent any more than there is decent NOW in the face of a third stolen election.

Enjoy your freedom to complain about all this to one another for soon enough even THIS will no longer be possible.

It is over.

[DemBones DemBones]

19. Paying some attention but not much

giving a shit. If Kerry could just walk offstage like that, what the hell am I supposed to do? I don't have money or political power. Maybe there's no point to politics, no point to voting. Just live and try to enjoy life, knowing you can't change a thing.

[jojo54]

20. We have to keep fighting

If we don't and give up all hope, then we really are screwed. B*sh will continue to pressure the media to show stuff like "athletes gone wild" so most won't be aware of the bulls**t legislation that gets passed behind our backs. If we let this debacle pass as a memory, then before we know what hit us, we'll really be in "A Christmas Carol" scenario. The only difference is, we'll never get to Christmas Eve when the evil one has a sudden change of heart.

[jpgray]

21. Not as much. And that's why we lose

We should be redoubling our efforts, but we won't be.

[Ripley]

22. Yes, it does all seem irrelevant now.

How could so many people be sooo wrong. Half the country KNEW that Crawford Fucktwit was TOAST, I tell you BURNT TOAST. A Ham sandwich could beat him. ABB. Woofreakinghoo!

I don't care how much fraud, incompetence and Swift boat Liars excuses you give me. There is no reason in the Universe that this election should have even been close. The Democratic party is completely irrelevant. They don't have a clue.

Thanks for your post. It seems like a lot of the DU1 folks disappeared. A lot of us must share your sense of political irrelevancy.

[SmokingJacket]

23. I'm with you, but I haven't totally given up.

Ordinary people have lost almost all of our power. We did an *amazing* job this last campaign -- gotv, huge grassroots movements, but nothing changed. We can protest and make a huge fuss, but the media won't cover it, so why bother?

But I cling to a tiny thread of hope that this administration will be faced with a major comeuppance, soon.

Seeing Bush on TV a la Nixon, "I am not a crook!" will go a long way toward restoring my faith in this country.

Otherwise we just wait for them to destroy themselves, and many of us, in the process.

[Q]

24. Democrats lament about Bush* getting away with unethical...

...and criminal behavior in the white house. But deep down inside where the conscience dwells...they know that the Bushies remain unaccountable because of the absence of an opposition party.

Yes...Democrats are intentionally letting the Bushies escape accountability so as not to make waves and put their own careers at risk.

This has disillusioned Democrats and made them feel that there is no justice and that the rule of law doesn't apply to Republicans. The last time they saw checks and balances used in America was to impeach a sitting president for a 'moral crime'.

And then to have to watch two elections in a row taken from them with barely a peep from the leadership...Democrats are beginning to wonder if there is collusion between the parties to create a one-party state.

I have no problem with continuing the fight...but not with the current crop of leaders who have lost sight of their duties and obligations.

[BeFree]

25. They steal your vote, and all you can say is:

At this point, they're welcome to it as far as I'm concerned.

Ok, fine, we can't count on you, that's good to know. Meanwhile there are others who are fighting to see that your vote is not stolen again.

But hey, you may not vote again? So anyone who is working to save your vote is wasting their time, eh?

What kind of message is that? You might as well bow down before the king and offer your head to his majesty.

:puke:

[Ripley]

26. Who exactly is fighting to see the vote isn't stolen?

Oh, you mean Jesse Jackson and that Green Party guy in Ohio?

Uh-huh, let me know what becomes of it. Like in 2000....who exactly in the Democratic Party in Congress fought for the black voters in Florida? Who fought for four years trying to ensure that never happened again?

To continually live in a fantasy world where Kerry speaks in code and is doing backroom maneuvers is bullshit. The people fighting in the streets are NOT PART OF THE MAINSTREAM ESTABLISHED PARTY. Fact.

[BeFree]

28. Absolutely correct

The people working to protect the vote are not mainstream, though there are a few mainstream who are working at it.

I am doing what I can to protect the vote as I'm sure you are too. So, when I read such dribble as I've seen, it causes me to have great consternation since some people are so willing to give it away so easily, negating and demeaning our efforts.

:puke: I do not easily puke.

[Armstead]

31. You should learn to recognize angry sarcasm when you see it.

I don't really think "they're welcome to it." They are not welcome to it at all. But...

If I felt there was still a real opposition to the GOP within the power structure after the election, I would not feel this way. But the Democrats seem determined to just let the oppositional energy disssapate, and go back to their lame ways and let Bush get away with anything he wants.

If they don't care, why should I?

Regarding the election itself, aside from a few, the Democrats could care less about what happened in the the voting. They should be fighting for a recount in questionable areas on general principles.

But I don't get personally worked up about that because I think they may also be correct in terms of the result. I tend to think that Bush really did win. That's not a thought I'm happy with, but it's what we're stuck with.

Better to at least face the reality that the right wing has a structure that supports itself. The left wing has no structure, and what does exist seems more determined to be as lame as possible since the election.

If the Democratic poo-bahs want to continue to continue to allow the GOP and Bush to run rampant and if they want to continue to disavow liberalism and progressive politics, then the internal political machinations are irrelevant to me.

And if a majority of Americans don't care enough to question what's happening, then that's even worse.

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

[seabeyond]

27. over 45 % of people believe in creationism

that alone tells me, and the last couple years as you say, things to make people aware. this tells me, really people arent going to get it now, even if i do say something

i htink that is where i am

turned outside news off, listening to the people here, what they are doing, literally things that are happening with bush, dem, repugs. but a sittin back, listening watching seeing..........cause we are a busy creating what will be

[annabanana]

30. I don't think so....

I think maybe 5% really believe in it, and the rest don't care one way or the other and just check off whatever will get them "social points" wherever they are.

[annabanana]

29. I am still paying attention.

After the 2000 "election", I realized we were in trouble. For the first time since the end of the Vietnam war my disgust with all things "right" had a focus. When I saw how little attention was paid by the mainstream media I got scared, and involved.

This edifice they have constructed was years in the making, but it is built on sand. (This is why I'm in the "framing the debate" group.) The vast majority of the people in this country are still not paying attention. Remember the war in 'nam was going on for a LONG TIME before the general public was aware.

People here who kept expecting the "floodgates to open" and "scales to fall from the eyes" of the American public have been kidding themselves. They expected a big, emotional payoff for all their hard work and many of them are ready to pick up their marbles and go home when that didn't happen.

We have to keep a steady pressure on to get the votes counted. We have to continue to bitch and bitch and bitch when lies are casually accepted in our presence.

We have to get up off our sweet fanny adams's and go down to the local Dem office with a new broom, good information, and the stance of a happy warrior in the good fight.

The game is only lost if we quit.

[DireStrike]

34. I feel like it's really late and I'm struggling to stay awake

I'm afraid.

And I don't know what to do.

But I'm not going away, dammit!

[Willy Lee]

35. I am still outraged.

Still paying attention.

[Proud_Lefty]

36. Giving up???

What a depressing thread! At the rate this administration is going, if we all give up (which is exactly what they want us to do), there will be no future for us and our children. There is enough evidence already uncovered that show that Bush stole votes in the millions. In other words, he doesn't have 51% support. If you knew the correct percentage, you'd probably laugh. We have to stop listening to the B.S. and stick with the truth. Our true numbers, coupled with the intelligence of those people, gives us incredible ammunition unless we join the ostriches of this country. Keep on message and don't give up or Bush wins and becomes our first dictator.

While I understand this philosophy, did it myself right after we entered Iraq, this is not the time. Our survival depends on as many people fighting for our freedoms as possible. Shake off your boots and pay attention. We are not defeated yet.