Jesus said, "They hate me and they're gonna hate you too."

[CornField]

Where do people come up with this crap? A woman on Nightline (visiting the 10 Commandments statue) just said this as fact.

[Ladyhawk]

1. It's in the New Testament.

I could look it up for you...give me a minute.

[CornField]

2. Yeah, please do.

This is a new one on me, but if it is true, it would explain quite a bit for me.

[Maple]

5. Applies more to Dems

liberals, progressives etc I would think.

They hated Jesus because he promoted peace and love.

[JVS]

8. Matthew 10:22

All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

[JVS]

10. Luke 21:17

All men will hate you because of me.

[Ladyhawk]

17. Thanks JVS. I thought it was in more than one gospel.

Mark was probably the first gospel written, then Matthew (I think), then Luke, then John. The first three are more similar to one another. John is a bit different. I used to the know the "term" for the first three gospels, but I really, really don't want the knowledge anymore. :) (On edit: synoptic gospels???? I don't know if that's right.)

Growing up fundy is painful for someone who was a progressive at heart. At the same time, I feel a need to reach out to religious progressives. People of all beliefs need to come together as progressives: atheist, agnostic, Wiccan, pagan, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Christian (not necessarily in that order).

:hug: to everyone of all faiths and non-faiths.

[JVS]

12. Mark 13:13

All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.


It seems to be a running theme in the gospels

[CornField]

16. What about my buddy Paul? nt

[JVS]

19. There is no gospel according to Paul

[CornField]

22. I was thinking of his epistles

I was wondering if the theme was carried into his letters.

[Kurovski]

26. If it were "All" then wouldn't there be only ONE christian?

?

[Ladyhawk]

6. John 15:18

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before you.

And one of many contradictions:

John 7 : 7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

1 John 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

(This gives fundies their persecution complex.)

[CornField]

9. Yeah

I've been a big believer in what seems to me as the self-fulfilling prophecy of persecution.

It is interesting that those both come from the book of John.

[JVS]

13. See above

[thinkingwoman]

32. Well Jesus was right

but he wasn't talking about the fundies.

He was talking about the world hating people who stand up to hypocrisy and power and tell the truth and advocate peace.

Yep, universally hated, especially by people like the fundies. It's so frustrating.

[Must_B_Free]

3. No, that was David Koresh who said that...

[Ladyhawk]

7. He was quoting the above scripture, probably. n/t

[tuvor]

4. I'll bet she hates a lot of what Jesus actually stood for.

[Ladyhawk]

11. Probably.

Right-wing fundies hate you because they aren't allowed to make you practice what they do.

Note: This is NOT meant to be a snide remark against progressive Christians.

[tuvor]

24. No offense taken by this Christian.

DU in general is generally a very comfortable place to mention your beliefs, whatever they may be, without having to worry about "what others are gonna think".

[CornField]

15. May I ask why it seems so many do this?

I didn't want to personally attack this woman... I wanted to question and discuss her opinion on this particular subject.

It just seems to me that a lot of folks here tend to see things in either black or white, good or bad. I think it is more complex than that. I also think we are doing a dis-service to ourselves and to others when we attack other people we have no way of knowing.

[Ladyhawk]

20. Most of the fundies I know have this persecution complex.

It's part of a package of dogma that they are force-fed at their church. I received the whole package: original sin; people are basically evil; they'll hate you for being a Christian; etc. etc. etc.

This is a construct, a rigid world view. Any new information is compared to this world view and immediately rejected or accepted based upon that world view. A fundamentalist Christian cannot change his or her mind verily easily, if at all. If they start to question, the whole construct may collapse. That's what happened to me.

This is very painful. It's hard to realize that you're not a part of some great plan and that you don't have a direct line to God. Most fundies will go to great lengths to preserve this constructed world view.

That's the best answer I can give you. The persecution complex is part of the dogma package...what are you gonna do? :shrug:

[CornField]

25. Yes, I've been there myself

That was how I was raised, at least by my church family. My parents were much more forgiving with their outspoken youngest daughter. :)

I remember those who were killed for their Christian beliefs being placed on pedestals by my Sunday school teacher -- even when they were sitting on death row because of the actions they took.

People speak a great deal about the virgins that are supposedly waiting on the Muslim who sacrifices himself in battle against infidels. Rarely, however, do people speak of the same type of after-death promises made in Christian churches. We had drills when I was younger where an older person would berate us for our beliefs and we would have to defend ourselves.

Many of the 'Christians' in my life back then did not feel they were totally so unless someone was trying to persecute them for their beliefs. "If I was truly living my life as a Christian, someone would hate me." I actually think many of them held the Jewish people in higher regard because of the Halocaust.

[tuvor]

21. My feeling is they like to be told how to think.

It frees them, in their own eyes, from the burden of responsibility for their words and actions.

[Nordic]

14. so you're not a real Christian until someone hates you?

is that the point she was trying to make?

How about people who are REAL Christians, and are in fact Christ-like? Guess who hates them? THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT, that's who.

[Ladyhawk]

18. Good point.

I find it interesting that today's religious right acts just like the Pharisees whom Jesus detested. Every time I see a nicey-nice fundy, I know what's underneath and I think of Jesus's words: "whited sepulchre."

I think I'm finally learning to stay away from them. It was a painful lesson!

Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead bones, and of all uncleanness.

When I see a nicey-nice person, I immediately get suspicious. If you scratch the surface, you'll find something quite ugly underneath. I have had this experience with many fundies. Isn't it odd that they "act" nice and get ugly as soon as you get too close! Stay away from them!

[Nordic]

23. wow, Jesus was quite the poet. "Dead bones" beneath the surface

is a pretty great image. Both literally and metaphorically.

[Tsiyu]

27. Yes, he said it, referring to liberals of course

He said that the self-righteous and the sinful would hate the good folk.

So, you will be hated if you care about the soldiers' families, or the poor, or the Iraqis.

You will be hated when you call evil what is evil.

You will be hated because you have compassion on children and animals and prisoners.

You will be hated because you challenge unjust authority.

You will be hated because you want to breathe clean air and drink clean water.

Get the drift This applies to DUers, not fundies.

[bklyncowgirl]

28. I love Jesus, I just have a problem with his fan club n/t

[hollowdweller]

29. Amen!

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. But the THEY who hated Jesus in His day are the THEY who think

they love Him so much now. Legalistic, fundagelical Pharisees just do not get it.

------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[LizW]

31. Christians where I live are not hated at all

They are celebrated and praised. They proudly display their symbols on their businesses and homes and cars. Their kids wear t-shirts designating them as members of this or that church. They have their own pre-schools and sports teams for kids.

Around here, it is considered a big compliment to say someone's a "fine Christian person". There are at least three radio stations that play Christian music all the time.

As a group, they have immense political power. Socially, they have a large like-minded group to identify with and "fit into". I don't know any Christian who ever has to suffer any real discomfort because of his/her faith. Quite the contrary.

[Misunderestimator]

33. Yep.

And where one of the first questions you get is "What church do you go to?" That question alone makes ME feel discriminated against, and I have never met an American Christian who has experienced any kind of discrimination based on their religion.

This whole "Jesus said they will hate you too" martyr stuff is giving me the heebie-jeebies.

[yardwork]

34. It's especially true in the south and midwest

Anytime anybody is in trouble, sure enough somebody will say "He is such a good Christian!" Or, "She is such an important part of her church!"

This is used to excuse all kinds of bad behavior, up to and including murder and child abuse.

I have nothing against the millions of devout Christians who do volunteer many many hours doing good works in their community. I just have a real problem with people who use their supposed faith as an excuse to hate and hurt other people.

Unfortunately, the hate and hurt brigade are out in force lately.