Rev. Pat Robertson Spreading XMas Cheer: "Kwanzaa is an absolute fraud"

[elehhhhna]

Rev. Pat Robertson: "Kwanzaa is an absolute fraud"

Reverend Pat Robertson called Kwanzaa "an absolute fraud" during the news segment of Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club December 6. After lamenting that "left wing educators, left-wing judges are stripping every vestige of our Christian heritage," Robertson, host and Christian Coalition of America founder, said: "Kwanzaa is an absolute fraud. You know, there was no festival in Africa called 'Kwanzaa.' I mean, it's made up by a bunch of hippie-types on the West Coast. I mean, it's not something that goes back to Africa. No way."

Kwanzaa is an African American holiday celebrated in African communities around the world. It was founded in 1966 by Maulana Karenga, professor and chair of the black studies department at California State University, Long Beach. The official Kwanzaa website notes that Karenga founded Kwanzaa as "an African American and Pan-African holiday" based on ancient African history and culture. Celebrated from December 26 through January 1, Kwanzaa is rooted in "the first harvest celebrations of Africa from which it takes its name." According to Karenga, "The name 'Kwanzaa' is derived from the phrase 'matunda ya kwanza' which means 'first fruits' in Swahili, a Pan-African language which is the most widely spoken African language." Karenga also notes that Kwanzaa "draws from the cultures of various African peoples, and is celebrated by millions of Africans throughout the world African community."



http://mediamatters.org/items/200412090004

[ibegurpard]

1. What the fuck does he care?

Asshole!

[physioex]

8. Robertson and Falwell...

Just scare the hell outta me. Jim Bakker was a joke after all he was simply in it for money and sex and really had no political influence. But these people just scare the hell outta of me and to think Pat Robertsom came so close to being President in '88 had it not been for Shrub I's dirty tricks.....

I would rather have GWB I President any day over Robertson and I grateful to Shrub I for that.....

[Sara Beverley]

51. Well for that matter, "Christmas" is a "made up" holiday.

Has it's roots in paganism...Easter too.

[DrWeird]

2. There's a pot calling an African American holiday black.

nt

[dolo amber]

3. Th' fuck does he care?

Mind your own business, ya dried up old blowhard. :eyes:

[Hobarticus]

4. Pot, meet kettle...

Robertson talking about fraud is absolutely precious.

[wysi]

5. Dear Pat:

Christmas is actually the Roman Saturnalia dressed up in xtian clothing.

[TexasLady]

33. Thats right

we need to tell the big forehead to stop
using the tree
the holly
the presents
the santas
the DATE
the mistletoe
the reindeer
the lights
and on and on and on...
because his ilk hijacked the solstice and I for one am SICK of it.


idiot degenerate. twit. thief.

[jpgray]

6. Boy, it's a good thing Christmas is rooted in non-pagan tradition

Right? That 'mas' suffix just screams Hebrew or biblical Greek.

:silly:

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. I'm not quite sure of your point

Just because English uses an ending derived from a Latin word, you think it counts as pagan tradition?

[K-W]

48. He's right.

Christmas has nothing to do with Christs birth. Christian holidays are not uncoincidentally at the solistices which were locations of many pagen holidays. As christianity spread it coopted the celebration. That is why most of our christmas traditions are pagen. It was a holiday before christianity. Christianity just became a part of it when people converted.

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. I'm not disputing the origins of the traditions

I was wondering why he thought it being named in English after a Mass for Christ made any difference at all.

[flamingyouth]

7. Oh, why won't he ever shut up?

Imagine the oxygen we'd save...

[physioex]

12. And when will he and Falwell...

Kick the bucket. It's about damn time....

And we thought that Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms would never go.

[RubyDuby in GA]

9. Have yourselves a very hairy Kwanzaa

Someone should send him the Shirly Q Liquor Kwanzaa song.
And have yourselves the happiest little Kwanzaa that ever was....

Someone also might want to remind him that there are quite a few people out there who think his religion is an absolute fraud. I believe Bono said it best: "The God I believe in isn't short of cash mister!"

[China_cat]

10. I had never heard of Kwanzaa

until 1979 when we hosted 3 Girl Scouts from Tanzania for a wider opportunity here. We talked about festivals and holiday and they told me about Kwanzaa. Later that year they sent me typical cards sold to celebrate.

Last time I looked at a map, Tanzania WAS still in Africa. And not even the west coast of Africa.

[xultar]

11. I wonder how my Fundie Bruvas & Sistahs feel about that? Knowin

they let this robertson CLOWN diss their holiday yet they voted for Pat's main man Chimpy.
Buhwawawaaaaaaa!

[CatBoreal]

13. It's a cultural festival....

...not a religious festival!

There also weren't Independance Day festivities in England, but I don't see him questioning the validity of people in the US celebrating that!

Guess he's just jealous that he doesn't get to participate.

[david_vincent]

14. He's right, but...

Kwanzaa is, actually, an "absolute fraud" if, by that, he means that it was invented. The problem arises because he would utterly deny the truth of the matter, which is that Christmas is, by this criterion, also an "absolute fraud".

[FizzFuzz]

64. everything was invented!

starting with social groupings, primitive religions, civilization.

Fat Pat has some kind of timeline? "everything that originated before my arbitrarily chosen time is valid and anything after--sorrrryy!" ??

[yellowdogintexas]

15. Exactly, is it any of his business, and who asked him anyway?

I have a lot of African-American friends, none of whom observe Kwanzaa.
In fact when I asked one of them if they observed it (Catholic family, her husband is from Nigeria), she just gave me that black mother fisheye that they usually reserve for their kids and said"GET REAL".

So I don't know how popular it actually is nationally, but it must be popular enough since Hallmark has tapped in to it.

Anyway, I think Rev Dr Fraud up there is scared silly that the conservative black Christian segment is being "swayed" by the Kwanzaa
holiday and that threatens the Christian right somehow.

Although how anybody could feel the Christian Right is threatened in today's America is beyond me. Too powerful is more like it.

Another example of the pious arrogant so called christian (note the little c, how much more venomous I can get without bad language, I do not know) attitude of "my way or the highway (to hell)"

I lose all my religion when I get started on those turkeys. Guess I need to go talk to my own pastor to get my head back together. He and I will have a good laugh over this and I will feel better.

Pat Robertson is just MEAN

[xchrom]

16. whew -- it's not about gay folk for a minute.

i needed a rest from my personal outrage.
hold on while i get my outrage for others soapbox dusted off
.
pat -- did your mother ever tell you the old phrase -- ''takes one to know one''?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

17. And, of course, Jesus was really born December 25.

And Christmas isn't in any way a hijacking of a pagan solstice festivity. Nosiree, no way.

[Mad_Dem_X]

41. I had to explain to my husband (who was raised Catholic)

that Jesus was actually born in August, because the Feast of the Immaculate Conception is just two weeks or so before Christmas. I'm not even a Catholic and I knew that. LOL

[pschoeb]

54. Umm, Immaculate conception is not Jesus's conception but Mary's

She had to be born without original sin on her soul to be the proper vessel for god's son. The conception was the act of her soul being infused into her body without original sin. I'm an atheist but am pretty well versed in all religious practices/beleifs of various faiths.

No one is sure on what was originally thought to be Jesus's birth date in early christianity, but there is some speculation on the epiphany(Jan 6) or that the date was unkown but chosen to make Jesus exactly a certain number of years old on his death(which would depend on what date was given for his death).

[Johonny]

57. There is

No recorded history of the date of Jesus's birth and or death. So complaining that Jesus wasn't born on <blank> but <blank> day is a rather pointless exercise in made up history. 25th December is as good as day as any other.

[Old and In the Way]

18. Pat, how are those profits in your African diamond mines doing?

You, Pat, are an absolute fraud.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Love that Christian religious tolerance.

[Obviousman]

20. wow

could a person be any more overtly racist?

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Pat and Falwell can go sit on some nice big fat Xmas candles. Yeesh!

------------------------------------
Would Jesus love Kwanzaa? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[MrBenchley]

22. What the hell does he care?

If people want to worship a mythical Giant Avocado of Pasadena that's their own business, not his.

[Johonny]

23. This reminds me of

When Pat went to India and made fun of the Indians ritually bathing in the river. Ritual dunking in water for a blessing from God sheer folly says the baptized evangelist..

Then went to a shrine and bemoaned the number of statues to gods around. Just mindless pagan rituals to empty religious symbols bemoaned mister cross wearer.

I wonder if Pat knows anything about his own religion? If you watched the 700 club you know the answer already.

[Obamarama]

24. Wonder what the dickwad would say about "Festivus"

You know...Festivus, for the rest of us.

[KansDem]

25. Robertson: The Grinch who stole Kwanzaa...(nt)

[strategery blunder]

26. I would NEVER call Kwanzaa "an absolute fraud."

I don't observe it myself, but I treat Kwanzaa with a kind of respectful neutrality. I don't make fun of it because it isn't a part of "my" religion. Earth to Robertson: Kwanzaa is a result of different cultures mixing together, not an "invention."

Of course, the KKKristian Rev. FraWd Robertson probably believes that cultures shouldn't be allowed to diffuse into each other, either. Nor, for that matter, would it surprise me if I found out that he thinks the races should keep seperate, either.:eyes::mad:

[PlanetBev]

27. Where does this guy get his nerve?

Enslave millions and millions of people for profit, (millions more dying in passage aboard slave ships) beat them, rape their women, sell their children, terrorize them and deny them the dignity of mankind for hundreds of years and then tell them they have no right to their own traditions and celebrations.

I see nothing wrong with Kwaanza. It is a celebration of a culture that was cruelly stripped away from an entire race of people a long time ago. I say, more power to all those who would reclaim their culture and a big, hearty fuck you to Pat Robertson and his insane ilk.

By the way Pat, who slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people during the Crusades and Inquisition in the name of "your" version of Christ? People like you, asshole. You impugn the very name of Christ with your evil and cruelty.

[immoderate]

28. Answers the question: If shit could talk, what would it say?

--IMM

[Contrary1]

42. How 'bout:

"My name is George W. Bush."

[Jack_DeLeon]

29. Kwanzaa = a made up holiday

that being said I suppose every holiday we celebrate today was made up at one time or another.

[K-W]

49. :)

Indeed.

[patcox2]

52. a "made up" "tradition" - thats an oxymoron

Sorry, but I think Kwanzaa is just a dumb idea. Its the Epcot of holidays, a fake holiday, like going to fake foreign countries at Epcot. Its so weird in so many ways. Its like if Irish americans made up some fake Irish holiday out of bits and pieces of Irish folklore that no one living beleives in or is even aware of.

Your heritage is that which you actually receive from your forebears, not what some college professor researcher creates for you by researching what your ancestors ten generations ago might have believed.

Its beyond weird. Its strange. It borders on a sorta patronizing, condescending view of black people, as if to say "you poor things, you don't have any valid cultural traditions, we will have to make some up for you, there, look, now you're just like a real culture, you're just as good as the Irish with their St. patricks day and the Italians with their spaghetti and Virgin Mary inside the blue bathtub on the lawn."

[SmokingJacket]

56. Like Veteran's Day?

That's so made up! My grandparents didn't celebrate Veteran's Day! What a fraud!

Some CONGRESSMAN or something made it up!



:eyes:

Why care if someone wants to celebrate something?

Who are you to say it's "real" or not?

Someone has to start traditions. If you recall, slaves had their original traditions forcibly removed from them.

[patcox2]

59. Veterans day does not pretend to be a cultural tradition.

Do you light a veterans' menorah, or wear mystical veterans robes on veterans day?

I think there is a valid distinction between cultural traditions which develop naturally, from the bottom-up, as it were, as opposed to attempts by academics and intellectuals to create a whole complex set of rituals and impose it from the top down.

Its like the distinction between marxism and lenninism.

If you want to criticize mothers day because the card companies made it up, I'd agree with you. but again, they didn't also create a mythology and a set of rituals designed to be performed with ritual paraphenalia over a period of days, thats a bit ludicrous.

On the other hand, the emerging cultural artifact known as "super bowl sunday" and the recent dramatic expansion of Halloween from a child's trick or treat holiday into the biggest adult debauch going, these seem to be organic, genuine cultural trends.

[mitchum]

30. Every day I long to hear of the death of that grifting motherfucker...

and I hope it is very painful

[superconnected]

31. pat will live to be 120, because God doesn't want him.

And satan really doesn't want him.

[porkrind]

32. It's the IRONY. stupid !!!

The hypocritical leader of a crypto white supremacist money-cult based loosely on Christianity is speaking out against Kwanzaa, a mid-winter thanksgiving celebration? All the while, Robertson is astoundingly ignorant of the history and pagan origins of Christmas, which was co-opted by Christians because of holiday-envy and a desire to undermine local nature-worship religions?

How can we advance as a culture with dip-shit ignoramuses like Pat Robertson among us?
:wtf:

[TexasLady]

34. I say we laugh our collective asses off

at him, and tell him to go kiss our ass under some mistletoe!

[winston61]

36. A made up celebration, hmmm, sounds like Christmas

I know Robertson is a fucking' idiot, but he should have some people on his staff that can read. Isn't Christmas just a little bit made up? Didn't the whole thing start with early Christian leaders trying to come up with something to tie into the solstice celebrations? Is their historical evidence that Jesus was born around the winter solstice? Our pagan ancestors liked to pitch a bitch around that time to celebrate the renewing year and continuing life. Maybe the earliest church leaders knew a winner when they saw it. The symbolism would be simple to tie into and does it really matter when or if Jesus was born? So maybe Jesus ain't the reason for the season, but does it matter?

[Swamp Rat]

37. This post inspired my latest pic

That fucker Pat Robinson is a goddamn racist and a 21st slaver! - diamond mines in Africa - Fuck you and your FAKE X-tian holiday!

[datasuspect]

38. it's not about kwanzaa

it's about the christian siege-mentality.

they are really ratcheting it up this year though.

they are trying to make it appear that xmas is "under attack."

another rw fear tactic, gets the simpletons ire up so they can be more vocal in their racism i guess.

seems lately in the fundy/rw world pretty much everything is "under attack."

[Bridget Burke]

39. Kwanzaa is not a religious holiday at all.

It was specifically designed to celebrate African (& African/American) culture during the time when many are off work or school--no matter what their religion.

It combines different African cultures because African traditions were actively suppressed by slaveowners. Especially so in the English-speaking, Protestant colonies. People weren't able to openly say--here's how Grandpa's Yoruba people celebrated the harvest!

Robert Farris Thompson's Flash of the Spirit is an excellent study of African cultural survival in the New World--quite enlightening. Perhaps I should send Pat a copy.

[The Flaming Red Head]

40. Christmas is a cheap tacky holiday that has nothing to do with God

[Mad_Dem_X]

43. Sadly, it's become that

Most places you can't even say the word Christmas. Listen to all the ads on the radio and TV. "Holiday" sales, etc. Sometimes I just want to yell, "Say CHRISTMAS!"

[The Flaming Red Head]

45. Bah Humbug. I hate Christmas.

[K-W]

50. Become that?

Christmas has always been a combination of religion and secular culture. The gift giving, the feasts, the trees, and everything. It was a holiday before christianity came along. The only thing that has changed is that the culturally portion of the holiday is going the same way our culture is going, increasingly commercial.

As far as your gripe about calling them the holidays, if you need your particular tradition screamed at you through a radio to satisfy your ego, thats your problem. It is a holiday for everyone, not just you.

[Maestro]

44. I won't remind

Robertson that Christmas is a pagan holiday hijacked by the early Church to turn a pagan holiday into a religious one. Jesus was actually born in January or some time in early Spring.

[Johonny]

55. ?

What kind of proof is there of this. Round about none I'm guessing.

[Maestro]

60. Depends on to whom you talk I suppose.

Most biblical scholars believe that the early Church took over the pagan holiday celebrating the Winter solstice I believe. As far as Jesus being born in January or even into the Spring, the Greek Orthodox Church still celebrates their Christmas in January and I do remember reading, although I can't cite it, some scholars saying that Jesus could have been born as late as the Spring.

Although, if you are not a religious person and do not believe there ever was a Jesus, it really doesn't matter.

[BiggJawn]

46. Every tradition had to start someplace and sometime...

Even "Diamond Pat's" sacred co-opted Yule...

We talk about "Yuletide", and Yule logs, and sing "See the blazing Yule before us"..
They ain't talking about Xmas, friends...

[RUDUing2]

47. and he should know, cause it takes one (a fraud) to know one..

Pat Robertson is not a christian...even though he calls himself one..if anything he is a Sadducee (A member of a priestly, aristocratic Jewish sect founded in the second century B.C. that accepted only the written Mosaic law. dictionary.com) and a Paulian (followers of the words and writings of Paul (who was a sadducee) not those of Christ (was a pharisee...basically the sadducees were the conservatives and the pharisees were the liberals.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadducee

[Cuban_Liberal]

58. Kick n/t

[davidinalameda]

61. what a freaking yutz!

you know Pat--no one cares

[debsianben]

62. Huh

Well, I always go to Pat for spiritual authenticity: I mean, palling around with Charles Taylor, claiming that God gives you stock tips, "faith healing" and diverting planes from his African charity operation to his African diamond mines (see above, re: Charles Taylor) is certainly a hell of a resume.

[Batgirl]

63. Next item on Pat's agenda...

how Jesus feels about Sweetest Day