Pornography is Anything But a 'Victimless Crime'

[private_ryan]

MY favorite part:
"The last Victoria's Secret "fashion show" aired on network television November 19, 2003. Dru was abducted three days later."

if this isn't irrefutable evidence, I don't know what is.
----
Victoria's Secret is well known for its racy, soft-porn "fashion show" where voluptuous young models strut the runways in revealing lingerie. The liberal National Organization for Women called it "exploitative" and the conservative Concerned Women for America condemned it as a "high-tech striptease."

Regularly protested by both sides of the political spectrum, the company announced in April that it will no longer air this event

The last Victoria's Secret "fashion show" aired on network television November 19, 2003. Dru was abducted three days later. Could it be that Alfonso Rodriguez, a convicted sex offender, watched the show and was propelled into Dr. Cline's fourth stage of sexual deviance? This is a question his judge and jury may consider.

In an interview the night before his 1989 execution, serial killer Ted Bundy revealed the influence of pornography on his life.

A case study for Cline's four stages of addiction, Bundy started his descent into sexual deviance and murder with magazines he found in the neighbor's trash. His addiction escalated until he felt compelled to act out his desires in more than 30 murders that were accompanied with violent sexual acts.
http://www.cwfa.org/articles/6990/CWA/pornography/index.htm

[DrWeird]

Yes, let's ban heavy metal too.

It causes people to jump on stage and shoot musicians.

Let's stop the exploitation of heavy metal musicians.

[tridim]

6. Ban religion too

It's caused millions of deaths throughout history.

[DrWeird]

10. No, no. If they killed people they weren't really religious.

Religion is good because it supports the banning of pornography, and heavy metal, and Dungeons and Dragons.

[tridim]

18. and Tinki Winky.

[DrWeird]

29. Yes, they should ban children's television.

It caused Jerry Falwell to attack Tinky Winky. Won't somebody think of the children.

[arwalden]

114. ************* Excellent Idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **************

If we can't have porn, then get rid of "religion" too.

[jpgray]

1. If you're looking for porn in the lives of any subset of males

You're going to find it. Serial killers, politicians, doctors, pop stars, janitors--they all partake or have partaken.

[Danocrat]

2. Okay

I have no comment but I'm gonna get some popcorn and watch this thread for a while.

[NMDemDist2]

5. you're right

pass the popcorn please :)

[Danocrat]

14. More butter for your popcorn dear?

[NMDemDist2]

27. yes please

thanks :D

[Danocrat]

43. Here ya go

Ooooh. Saw that "gay porn lead to violence towards homosexuals?" comment from coming from a mile away. Was wondering what took them so long. That's gotta weigh heavy on the origianl poster.

[NMDemDist2]

3. OK so i need to believe a sexual sadist would have grown up just

fine and "normal" except he saw a bad picture??

that's like saying one drink will make you an alcholic or one joint will send you on the road to heroin addiction

:shrug:

[private_ryan]

7. but you're ignoring the evidence

I even put it in bold letters for you people out there.

[DrWeird]

13. You didn't hear about Damageplan?

Dude, that's clear proof that Heavy Metal music is dangerous and needs to be eliminated.

[420inTN]

46. Correlation is not Causation

Just because "A" precedes "B" doesn't mean that "A" causes "B".

Was this nutjub unstable? Yes. Could he have been set off by the lingerie section of the Sears catalog or the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Special? Yes.

[George_S]

55. Yes it does.

Eve ate the apple, therefore we sin.

Proof enough?

[420inTN]

57. That is causation.

A causal relationship is also a correlational relationship, but not all correlational relationships are causal relationships.

kinda like all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangels are squares.

[kiki]

74. Hehe "nutjub"

Sounds like a character from that awful Star Wars Episode I movie.

[420inTN]

80. Ooops.. should have been "nutjob". I guess i'm a "moran". ;-) n/t

[private_ryan]

82. too much porn will do that to you

;)

[DrWeird]

86. Would 22 GB be enough?

So what kind was it? Animal? Vegetable? Tentacle?

Admit it, you didn't really erase it, did you?

[420inTN]

89. Yeah, i guess that I have been too busy...

"jubbing" my nuts. ;-)

[kiki]

103. Or "meesa so stooopid!" as Nutjub would probably say.

[pleiku52cab]

92. Turn off the newscasts - you're starting to talk like rummy n/t

[420inTN]

94. Because I'm using words in their proper context?

Doesn't sound like rummy to me.

[pleiku52cab]

101. Just yankin' your chain bro

[420inTN]

108. I figured as much, but thought that I should cover my bases, just in case.

;-)

[SemperEadem]

117. men were abducting and raping women before the printing press was invented

and in the name of religion and the crown, no less.

Actually, King Phillip II Hapsburg of Spain (c. 1557-1598)--the same one who launched both the Spanish Inquisition and the Spanish Armada during his reign--had a collection of pornographic paintings in his collection of art at that time. Availing himself to that which leads the soul down the path to hell, or self-flagellation? What would Jesus do, indeed?

Control and power over another being is the issue. Some men have been bent towards gaining power and control for eons. It has nothing to do with skinny women with boob jobs prancing in their underware--it has to do with stalking an appropriate 'prey' in order to satisfy a fleeting sense of power and control.

[Djinn]

4. hugely long bow drawn there

I reckon you'd find plenty deviants/rapists/serial killers also drink alcohol - BAN ALCOHOL, and eat chocolate and do all sorts of things.

The porn makes you a killer theory is a ridiculous as the listening to certain music makes you kill yourself theory

Not really surprising from this group:

Morning After PIll
Stem Cell Research
Abortion
GAy MArriage

ALL BAD according to the CWA :eyes:

[lateo]

8. Be afraid...

The Victoria Secrets models are going to steal your fetuses!

[Fenris]

9. I hope you are being sarcastic.

[private_ryan]

23. dead serious

some of us respect women and don't get turned on sexually when they're naked, all made up and sexy. As long as their smart and demand respect we get turned on. Doesn't matter if they don't shave, cut the hair short, no showers, no makeup, pants only and so on.

[More Than A Feeling]

58. whoa, wait a minute, no showers?

I am sorry but that is just nasty.

[DrWeird]

60. That does not fempute.

some of us respect women... as long as their smart and demand respect we get turned on

[GodHelpUsAll2]

61. Damn it

You mean I have been spending an hour or better in the bathroom EVERY day of my life since my teenage years working on hair and makeup and picking out the perfectly cute coordinated outfit for nothing? OK.....who didn't get me the memo?

Come on now. Everywhere you look you find sex. It's perfectly normal. People seem to have this hang up about it as if it were some dirty little thing. We all do it, we all fantasize about it, and more than you can imagine have dabbled in the world of porn. In my eyes, there are 2 types of people in this world, those who freely with no shame admit it, and those who lie about it.

[TheDebbieDee]

87. You're absolutely right...

<<there are 2 types of people in this world, those who freely with no shame admit it, and those who lie about it.>>

You've got the doers and the hypocrites!

[GodHelpUsAll2]

98. And there

are more hypocrites than you can shake a stick at. It's quite scary. A nut is a nut no matter what is out there. If all porn was eliminated, all alchol was gone, drugs were non existent and women were covered from head to toe we would still have abductions, rapes, murders etc. If your nuts and have a criminal personality, you will still be nuts with or without Victoria's Secret.

[private_ryan]

107. are you saying you disagree with NOW?

n/t

[GodHelpUsAll2]

111. If they believe

that a Victoria's Secret fashion directly caused an abduction then yes, I do disagree with them. If they believe that porn is the cause of sex crimes then yes I do disagree with them. If they believe that nutball people would not comit crimes if there were no lingerie in the world then yes I do disagree with them. Answer your question?

[private_ryan]

112. do you, as a liberal /democrat disagree with NOW that

that show Victoria Secret was exploitative of women?

yes or no?

[RagingInMiami]

66. With all due respect

you must be gay -- not that there is anything wrong that.

[Atman]

11. Shouldn't we ban republicans then?

Look at all the DEATHS they cause!

[Hippo_Tron]

84. That's the best idea I've heard all night

They should make YOU president.

[seabeyond]

12. pornography ruins, causes damage to a lot of lives

so does alcohol. so does drug. so do a lot of things. free will, our choices in life. are we allowed to partake, yup. individual choice

still, pornography does harm

[Atman]

15. Ban Jody Foster movies!

David Hinkley.

[DrWeird]

19. Catcher in the Rye!

Everybody else!

[pinkpops]

16. Couldn't you find a less questionable link for your premise?

I mean, surely there is a feminist organization that would back the theory. The one you chose is a little to the right on most issues -
just look at their core values:

http://www.cwfa.org/coreissues.asp

[NMDemDist2]

30. here's a better link

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#correlation

[pinkpops]

35. good one

[DrWeird]

36. LOL.

Is somebody coming out of the closet?

[pinkpops]

41. CWA Leadership

http://gideon.cwfa.org/leadership.asp

For example:

[Atman]

17. Ban talking dogs

Son of Sam

[DrWeird]

20. We'll have to ban Islam too.

9-11.

[LostInAnomie]

21. That is the longest stretching generalization I think I have ever read.

Porn is a mutli-multi billion dollar industry, if their hypothesis held any water then millions of men would be abducting and killing women.

This is the kind of crap we are going to have to deal with and blow out of the water for the next 4 years. These people have no respect for methodology or causation in research. They are perfectly willing to exploit peoples ignorance with anecdotes to further their agenda.

[Thurston Howell IV]

22. Pornography in the Service of Women?

For an alternative viewpoint, read Angela Carter's "The Sadeian Woman and the Ideology of Pornography." Makes for fascinating reading.

"Pornographers are the enemies of women only because our contemporary ideology of pornography does not encompass the possibility of change, as if we were the slaves of history and not its makers, as if sexual relations were not necessarily an expression of social relations, as if sex itself were an external fact, one as immutable as the weather, creating human practice but never a part of it. "

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0140298614/ref=sib_fs_bod/103-3292676-6192631?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S00A&checkSum=%2FMsJNPC9%2B%2BoamQn0MapN3YXRHGyRU%2BShdnBROEF7PrA%3D#reader-link

[NightTrain]

24. Didn't Ted Bundy claim that he killed because of porn?

It's always a convenient scapegoat, isn't it?

[DireStrike]

25. Fuck that, it's those damn CARS!

EVERY SINGLE DAY people walk past, look at, or even DRIVE cars!

Care to guess the chances that a kidnapper, rapist or murder didn't have a car? Didn't think so.

[Atman]

26. There are 300,000,000 people in America

We CANNOT expect every one of them to be "normal." If 1/100th of 1% of them are totally fucked in the head, that is still a lot of people. Get serious.

[DrWeird]

28. Better ban water polo.

Leading cause of drowning among horses.

[T Town Jake]

31. Why stop with banning porn?...

...let's ban eyeshadow, mini-skirts, bikinis, lip gloss, tight pants, male eyeballs, dance clubs, and censor Howard Stern for good measure (oh, wait, the Fundy's already managed to get that one done for us). I hear Jerry Falwell applauding somewhere in the background...
In fact, I heard that there was this outfit (now defunct) that had some head-to-toe covering devices to keep all those evil leers at bay. Burquas, anyone? :eyes:

[NMDemDist2]

68. ROFL i was outside with a long scarf around my head the other day

since I am prone to ear infections, I wear a lot of scarves in the cold wind, and a customer came by and asked if I was practicing to move to Iraq LOL


i did inform him that under Saddam the women didn't have to wear head scarves, but now they better or else the clerics would get em

[Jack_DeLeon]

32. ROFLMAO...

I'm going to jack off to some porn now in honor of this stupid report.

[private_ryan]

38. damn

too late for me. After the article just destroyed 22 GB of porn...it took me ages to collect. Just wanted to be a good liberal you know...not exploit women. At least now I agree with the Christian Taleban

[DrWeird]

52. Now?

You mean you didn't always?

[enigmatic]

62. Trollin' Trollin' Trollin'.........

Nice.

[RagingInMiami]

71. So you go from one extreme to the other

You can find a happy medium, you know.

[mitchum]

33. If "straight" pornography leads to violence towards women, why doesn't...

gay porn lead to violence towards homosexuals?

Ted Bundy NEVER took responsibility for his sexual sadism. Sure Ted, stroke books lead to torture, murder, and necrophilia.

[420inTN]

34. Cor

[seriousstan]

37. Did he drink milk also? I hear Hitler loved his milk.

[Jack_DeLeon]

39. dont forget wheat bread...

Hitler loved wheat bread, he didnt want any of that fake artifical chemically enhanced white bread.

[private_ryan]

42. you guys are SICK

you're making fun of decades of feminism and NOW activism.

[seriousstan]

No we are making fun of simplistic cause and effect arguments.

You are making statements that are akin to "of course the pedophile likes small male children...he is gay". It is self-serving and easily dismissed.

On edit....200 posts WOOHOO :bounce:

[private_ryan]

51. read the post!!!

"The last Victoria's Secret "fashion show" aired on network television November 19, 2003. Dru was abducted three days later."

you see now? If it wasn't for that show, Drew wouldn't have been kidnapped!!!

[DrWeird]

53. I say we ban solo transatlantic flights.

Then the Lindbergh baby would still be alive.

[seriousstan]

54. You cannot be serious! What happen the day before? The week before?

What happen in his childhood? What about the sexy cologne commercial he saw hours before or the erection he got in the shower that morning? Do you simply dismiss their effects?

[GodHelpUsAll2]

81. Hmmmm

November 19. Kidnapped 3 days later. That would be November 22. OSWALD DID IT! The FBI is using Victoria's Secret show to cover up the conspiracy. Victoria's Secret is the patsy!

[billie_]

72. are you serious?

are you really trying to make an actual correlation?

this is truly a ridiculous stretch....

[RagingInMiami]

76. How do you know Drew wasn't stalking her because of a picture

he saw in a catalogue?

[SemperEadem]

118. as I said earlier--

men have been abducting, raping and killing women since before the printing press was invented--that predated videotape and film by 400+ years.

[distantearlywarning]

59. I'm a feminist and I don't really have a problem with porn.

Just as long as everybody is a consenting adult.

I bought my fiance a subscription to Playboy. He doesn't get to look at it first every month because I always steal it out of the mailbox to read the articles (really!). I joke that I should register as a member of the "Playboy Party" because I so often agree with the political viewpoints espoused in their articles (except for the gun control thing, but I think they're coming around on that one).

I don't feel degraded by the pictures in Playboy, nor do I imagine the models feel degraded either. They pay those girls quite a bit of money, I hear. If I were a little younger and a little less beholden to the law of gravity, I might send in a picture myself. I did quite a bit of nude modeling in my late teens and early twenties (for artsy type drawing and photography) and the pictures I have from that time are some of my dearest possessions. I never felt degraded. I felt like a beautiful, sexy woman.

Actually, truth be told, I feel more degraded by Cosmo. Honestly. I cancelled my subscription because I was tired of being told that I needed to be a 5'10" 110 lb A-cup sex maniac with no ambition in life outside of shoe shopping to be a good woman. At least Playboy has girls who look like girls - I am a short curvy/busty girl (and I don't mean fat) and I kind of feel "degraded" when I never see any women in MSM who actually look like women anymore - what's up with the waify boy look, huh? At least in Playboy the women have breasts and a back end on them...

[seriousstan]

64. The waif boy look is a look designed by women for women.

No man I know goes for that look, as is evident by the history of models in playboy and the proliferation of literature dedicated to larger women. I am old enough to remember when Twiggy hit the scene. My friends and I couldn't see the attraction. Funny how you never see the adult magazine named "anorexic waifs".

[Djinn]

113. nope

making fun of idiots who think it's that simple - and yes if NOW suggests the same thing they are included in the idiot group.

[T Town Jake]

50. And dogs, don't forget to ban dogs, Hitler's favorite pet...

...think of the children!

[MatrixEscape]

40. Sex is like food ...

It comes in many flavors, but it is very difficult to do without if you have healthy hormones flowing. It is a basis of life and reproduction, very primal.

Food porn is okay though. Ah, those commercials and ads to make you salivate and trigger your hunger. Aren't you hungry for ______?

I hope the original thread post was meant to be sarcastic, as it appears to be.

We should just bypass the focus on "victimless crimes" and get down to banning thinking freely and being a sovereign entity, that's really what all attempts to validate censorship and sustain draconian drug laws point to, to me. I can't support them.

[Baconfoot]

44. We cannot conclude from the fact that X happened after Y that Y

is even a contributing cause to Xs occurring.



I would also like to mention that men were raping women and each other long before there were trashcans full of porn around through which to rummage. There's no way to establish any increase in incidents because accurate pre-porn data doesn't exist... BECAUSE PORN HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE WITH US. Now maybe we've got more porn now, maybe not. And if we had reliable pre-more-porn era sexual assault statistics, we could make some kind of argument, BUT WE DON'T. We probably don't even have good current statistics due to underreporting.

I conclude that nothing purporting to be evidence of the assertion that porn causes sexual deviance is actually such evidence. Does this mean that the assertion is false? No. Only that we don't have any evidence for it.

Oh and, by the way:
Can you conclude from my remarks that I hate women and an pro-pornography? No.
You can think pornography is a dangerous, exploitive activity which has a negative effect even on those individuals who don't watch it, without thinking that it is a contributing cause to sexual deviance in those who partake of it.

[NMDemDist2]

47. see link at post #30 n/t

[Baconfoot]

73. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make regarding my post but...

Your link is to a list of fallacies which is inferior to what I myself could produce in under 120 minutes and which is not responsive to my post.

Perhaps you were thinking I could gain something from reading the explanation they website owners have given of causal reductionism. You give no indication. However, what I had in mind is closer to what they are calling "the confusion of causation and correlation fallacy."
On a side note: The website's explanation of the "confusion of causation and correlation fallacy" itself confuses correlation with coincidence. Compare the first and second examples in the section and you will see what I mean.

I point out a fallacy in the first line of my post which is a slightly different fallacy than either a causal reductionist fallacy or a confusion of causation with correlation. It is a variant of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy and could be called confusion of partial causation and coincidence.

Perhaps you were confused by my use of the term "contributing cause." I felt this would be more understandable by non-philosophers. I could have used the technical term "partial cause." But I don't think this would have avoided whatever confusion you are having since the term partial causation isn't a term used on the list to which you link.

[dolo amber]

45. Oh dear lord...I've watched porn

Who will stop me from abducting and killing myself?? :cry:

[pinkpops]

48. I would call 911 right away just in case

[jdots]

49. My beef (or tofu) with the sex trade

Economics,power and greed play a big role in it,by trying to sweep it under some rug the ethics of the buisness remain very low.It is part of the stupid human tricks we play,guilt and justice are some strange concepts.

[mmonk]

56. Seems a bit of a leap

to say Victoria's Secret fashion show is pornography. Rodriguez is obviously a slime ball deviate but a lingerie show is not pornography. Someone who abducts people would do so anyway whether there was a lingerie show or not and he was probably influenced by real pornography.

[Ian David]

69. Study: Country Music Causes Suicide

Abstract:
The Effect of Country Music on Suicide

STEVEN STACK, Wayne State University
JIM GUNDLACH, Auburn University

This article assesses the link between country music and metropolitan suicide rates. Country music is hypothesized to nurture a suicidal mood through its concerns with problems common in the suicidal population, such as marital discord, alcohol abuse, and alienation from work. The results of a multiple regression analysis of 49 metropolitan areas show that the greater the airtime devoted to country music, the greater the white suicide rate. The effect is independent of divorce, southernness, poverty, and gun availability. The existence of a country music subculture is thought to reinforce the link between country music and suicide. Our model explains 51% of the variance in urban white suicide rates.

Sociological work on the relationship between art and society has been largely restricted to speculative, sociohistorical theories that are often mutually opposed. Some theorists see art as creating social structure ( Adorno 1973), while Sorokin ( 1937 ) suggests that society and art are manifested in cyclical autonomous spheres; and still others contend that art is a reflection of social structure ( Albrecht 1954). Little empirical work has been done on the impact of music on social problems. While some research has linked music to criminal behavior ( Singer, Levine & Jou 1990), the relationship between music and suicide remains largely unexplored. Music is not mentioned in reviews of the literature on suicide ( Lester 1983; Stack 1982, 1990b); instead, the impact of art on suicide has been largely restricted to analyses of television movies and soap operas (for a review, see Stack 1990b).

In this article, we explore the link between a particular form of popular music (country music) and metropolitan suicide rates. We contend that the themes found in country music foster a suicidal mood among people already at risk of suicide and that it is thereby associated with a high suicide rate. The effect is buttressed by the country subculture and a link between this subculture and a racial status related to an increased suicide risk.
____________________
© The University of North Carolina Press Social Forces, September 1992 71(1):211-218
* Data on suicide mortality and most other variables were provided by the Inter-University Consortium for Political and Social Research, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. We are grateful to Richard Peterson for his inspirations and helpful discussions, to the anonymous reviewers for their probing reviews, and to Mitch Henry for his help in gathering the data on country music. Direct correspondence to Steven Stack, Department of Sociology, Wayne State University, Detroit, MI 48202.

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?action=getPage&docId=95183303


See also:
MSNBC - Country music-suicide link study tops Ig Nobel awards
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6144486/

[Runcible Spoon]

91. Joke: what happens when you play a country song backwards?

you get your truck back, your wife back, and your dog back! :evilgrin:

[FizzFuzz]

63. OP never mentioned CENSORSHIP. this circus here really PISSES ME OFF

the instant screaming here, mostly from males, that anyone who brings up unpleasant facts about porn is pushing for CENSORSHIP.

The OP never mentioned censorship.
That is a boogyman you all have brought into the mix on your own.

what would be far better would be to set down one's titillations and think about what the poster is trying to say. It would be better if people started thinking in terms of respect for the female half of the species and decided to create and or consume programing differently.

By the way, I like porn!!! How do ya like that? Bet I look like a finger wagging kill-joy when this subject comes up, but what I want is a distinction. Porn stays porn. If I'm in the mood for it, I can go to some fav websites. I do not want it to suddenly appear when there are young boys around looking at it then snickering at me, when there are friends of my hun visiting, seeing it as we all watch a TV show together and all of us having a moment of uncomfortable silence because I (as a memeber of the female race) have just been sexualized against my will. It DOES NOT deserve broadcast on mainstream airwaves under the banner of good clean fun, all american football, good honest American marketing nor as family-fun chain restaurants. This kind of embarassment at being turned into T&A in front of people you don't want to relate with on that level is something no man EVER experiences.

[T Town Jake]

79. "Who says A must say B"...

...is the way they taught it during my college days. "A" is the postulate: pornography caused/causes some kind of identifiable, provable harm. "B" is never very far behind in such matters: ban/censor/legislate it out of existence.
What you call "instant screaming" is actually just disagreement - and relatively mild disagreement at that.

[FizzFuzz]

100. then what does that say about the obverse

which would seem to be the logical progression--
B is Bad. Because B must proceed from A, one must never speak about A.

The "disagreement" I'm mostly seeing is not being voiced as simple disagreement. It is surfacing as accusations of censoring, reductionist thinking, framing the issue as a laughable joke, ridiculing the poster and ANYONE who has hesitations about the effects of porn. Not reactions that invite discussion.

When I said "instant screaming", maybe I should have said "knee-jerk reaction"

And I will say again, the OP was stating results of actual research. Fact, that bears consideration and the sharing of ideas, with the understanding that censorship is not an acceptable solution.

[mongo]

99. CWA is pushing for censorship.

They, along with the American Family Assoc, and Citizens for Community Values are the 3 main groups out there trying to ban pornography and put all the smutpeddlers (like me) in jail.

If porn were addictive and caused violence, I would surely have killed by now - and I haven't watched any porn for weeks (too busy).

[FizzFuzz]

102. CWA and all those RW/Fundy groups get no respect from me

I am not for censorship, and I believe most progressives and liberals would agree, censorship is not the solution. Nuanced thought and changes in personal choice are a better solution in my opinion.

AND, As I said already, it is not porn per se that I have a problem with. It is the intrusion of sexualized females into everyday situations in which I don't want to be objectified and demeaned. Please don't conflate porn which may be accessed through specific outlets, with everyday media barage.

GODDAMMIT it sure would be nice to see a man capable of seeing the difference and empathizing with what women experience daily: "hey, gee, I think maybe I wouldn't want to suddenly be turned into a humping penis while I was watching TV with my daughter"

[St. Jarvitude]

65. I ate a double cheeseburger from Wendy's last Wednesday night

My girlfriend broke up with my Thursday morning.

If I had never eaten that cheeseburger, I would still have a girlfriend!!

---

If my friend had told that to me, I'd have smacked him in the face a little and told him to grow a brain.

[Acryliccalico]

106. Big gray area

There is no proven cause and effect for anything. The only thing there is, is a big gray area of (normal) on the bell curve. Normal is just a word. My eyes are still stinging from the first (Core Values ) site listed on this thread.

[Atman]

67. Didn't we have this discussion under AG Ed Meese, too?

Just the right wing fundies back in charge. They do this shit whenever they get in power. Then on the way home they stop for bj from a crack whore and beat their wives.

Sorry...I'm not buying any of this shit.

[Wonk]

70. 69

:+

edit: dangit, my timing was off... missed it by one post. I blame that Old Navy commercial I saw this afternoon :+

[Ian David]

75. They can take my porn when they pry it from my wet, sticky hands

[LDS Jock]

77. ewww.. lol

you nasty!

[TheDebbieDee]

93. EEEEEEEEeeeeeeeewwwwwww !

[azoth]

78. Repeat after me: Correlation does not equal causation. Now

repeat it again, about a thousand times.

Sheesh.

[420inTN]

110. *Cough*

;-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2809599#2809724

[azoth]

119. May I simply congratulate you

on your obviously stellar grasp of logic. :D

Apparently, we're both geniuses. lol

[George_S]

83. Something for the popcorn people

[Cleita]

85. I once worked in a bookstore that sold mainline B & N stuff, but

they also sold really hard porn. Buleeve me, Victoria's Secret catalog is of Romance novel titillation compared to the stuff we had in the "special section".

If porn is what drove the nuts to what they did, it wasn't Victoria's Secret anymore than Harlequin romances convinced all the middle-aged women who read them to take up a life of drugs, sex and rock and roll.

[private_ryan]

90. where do you live?

I want to see if they're any unsolved sex crimes in that area :)

[Cleita]

109. This was in Los Angeles on the edges of Hollywood ( a mythical place).

Back in the early 1980's. We also sold so much gay stuff and gun stuff that it would blow your mind at how eclectic this store was. It also was full of alternative spiritualist things and really religious things. Not only that this store had newspapers from all over the world. Also, we had all the bookie tout sheets that we sold under the counter.

Considering the neighborhood was definitely inner city but also very ethnic in makeup (like very old Jewish and very old Hollywood), there was a lot of crime because of a new insurgence of criminal types. I used to feel somewhat safe when the off duty police came in to buy their copies of "Soldier of Fortune". Crime happened all around us.

We didn't get held up, robbed or otherwise because we were a bookstore. Evidentally, the criminals then like today are fairly illiterate. I wonder why we are allowing them to run our country?

[Sterling]

88. I think you are confused.

This is about abductions and murder not porn. I and millions of others look at porn all the time and have yet to kidnap or murder anyone.

[mongo]

95. There is no such thing as "pornography addiction"

If convicted mass murderer Ted Bundy had said that watching Bill Cosby reruns motivated his awful crimes, he would have been dismissed as a deranged sociopath. Instead, Bundy has said his pornography addiction made him do it--which many people treated as the conclusion of a thoughtful social scientist.Why?

Why There's No Such Thing as Sexual Addiction -- And Why It Really Matters

by Marty Klein, Ph.D. http://www.sexed.org/archive/article08.html

A really good read, as are most all of his articles.

[Autobot77]

96. Ted Bundy was a Republican also....

Maybe thats what caused him to kill those people.Maybe we should ban Republicans.

[meisje]

97. Your name backwards with a "'s" is a porno

thought I'd share

[bain_sidhe]

104. Milk causes violence, too

It's a well-known fact that 98-99%* of all violent offenders drank milk at an early age. That's way too high a correlation to be mere chance, don't you think?

* Allowing for the 1-2% of infants with congenital lactose intolerance.

See how much fun "correlation = causation" can be?

I'm a woman, and a feminist, and I have no problem with porn for those who freely choose to consume or indulge in it. I do have a couple of problems related to porn though -

1) being the unwilling recipient of pornography. That is, having it *imposed* on me in a venue where I have no reasonable expectation of encountering it. I don't have to watch the Victoria's Secret show (and I don't), I don't have to go to websites offering porn, or buy books that include it. I don't have a problem with those things being available to people who DO want to see it. But I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that it not be imposed on me when there's no reason for me to expect to see/hear/encounter it.

2) what I call "pornolence" - where violence (usually against women, but not always) is presented as a form of sex. I hate that. It brings to mind the old, not quite accurate, saying that "rape isn't about sex, it's about power." Well, sure it's about sex. But it's about violence AS sex, rather than sex per se.

[baba]

105. The OP is obviously pulling your chains!

Note the obvious sarcasm in his/her posts.

[Scout]

115. goddess forbid! men might run out of material to masturbate to!!

oh the horrors! poor little guys, might have one less source of all the millions of articles of porn out there to use to work up a good squirt! the tragedy!

[leftofthedial]

116. I went to the grocery store on Monday

and a gunman killed a bunch of metal musicians and fans on Wednesday.

We should ban food. It clearly causes violence.

Those bastards at Safeway.