C-Span2 Hillary is RIPPING the WH a new one 11:00 Eastern

[nostamj]

over the EPA lies about air quality in NYC after 9/11.

point by point, lie by lie.

[demnan]

1. Go, Hill, go!

[Melinda]

2. Web link for cube rats.

C-SPAN on the web

[hang a left]

3. she is pissed

[Robb]

5. I know everyone hates this

Folks hate the idea of a Hillary run, blah blah blah.

But this could be the issue that lets her off the hook with NY. "I've got to go to Washington to make sure this kind of crap doesn't get done to you again,' etc.

Still a fan.

[CWebster]

6. no

Because she never takes the big risks that are required of true leaders. She only sticks her toes in the water after someone else tests the water.

[July]

11. Really?

I believe Senator Clinton spoke out on this issue as soon as the information came out. I'm also pretty sure she does this whenever something affecting New York comes out, and she's been vocal for months about New York's getting the full post-9/11 funding Bush promised. So, what are you referring to, exactly?

[CWebster]

13. check her record

.

[July]

14. Well, I asked YOU what YOU were referring to

Could you explain why you made your statement in the first place?

[ronnykmarshall]

17. Thank you!

(tapping foot)

We're waiting!

[CWebster]

23. read her record

.

[ronnykmarshall]

25. Nice cop out.

[oasis]

27. What disturbs me is Hillary's inablity to walk on water.

[CWebster]

28. LOL

Ignorance is bliss, you know. There are just some people who can not believe that bush doesn't walk on water even when they don't have a job and can't afford to pay the electric bill and their parents can't afford medicine and college is out of the question for their children.


Same blindness.

[July]

31. Can I try this one more time?

You say Clinton "never takes the big risks that are required of true leaders" and "only sticks her toe in the water after someone else tests the water." That was your whole statement.

I replied that she spoke out on this issue right away, and that she has been speaking out for months about Bush's failure to deliver all the money he promised New York -- a couple of examples that challenge your statement. I asked you why you made that claim.

Could YOU support your own (sweeping) generalization, instead of asking ME to do your homework for you? "Check the record" means what, exactly? Could you throw some hints as to topic, perhaps, if you expect other people to dig around in the record to provide evidence for your unsupported assertion?

I can believe that Clinton hasn't always been the first out of the gate on an issue, but I don't know what issue(s) you're referring to, and her actions on the topic that this thread's about don't support your view. My guess is that sometimes she speaks out early and sometimes she doesn't, rather than that she's either more daring or more cautious than other politicians. You may feel differently, and you should hold any view you want, but back it up, please. I asked you more than once what was the basis for your comment -- I assume there is a reason, or are reasons, you feel this way? Is there any reason you don't want to state the cases (when Clinton let others "test the waters") that lead you to believe this?

Further, as far as I know, few here at DU think leaders "walk on water." Perhaps you are thinking of the Republican Cult of Personality, as you suggest in your reference to Bush, who DOES think that HE walks on water.

[CWebster]

32. Sure

but I wasn't initially responding to you.

[July]

33. Well, could you?

I'm interested in your reasons.

[ronnykmarshall]

18. Thank you!

(tapping foot)

We're waiting!

[rwork]

4. It is about time.

I could'nt believe, with the seriousness of the charge, that the story was dying. Should'nt this be the top story every night?

[indigo32]

7. Damn

she IS pissed....

[seemslikeadream]

8. Has she mentioned the source of all that asbestos?

W.R. Grace. Of course they've filed for bankrupcy in the meantime so I don't think Grace will be held accountable for all those asbestos related illnesses.

[Eat_The_Rich]

9. The Asbestos Material In the WTC...

Was not manufactured by W.R. Grace. I have been in the WTC and have seen the fireproofing. It was mineral wool. W.R. Grace made a product called Monokote. It was cementitious (made with Portland cement).

[seemslikeadream]

10. W.R.Grace did not manufacture it.

They mined it in 50 some places in the U.S. And is known by many names zonolite I believe is one, vermiculite is another and it was used in cement products garden products insulation. W.R. Grace is being sued by 350,000 people over their products. Over 35 million homes in this country have their cancer causing asbestos in them. The White House is refusing to let the EPA release their findings on Grace. Wellstone was trying to get this out at the time of his death.
I'll be back after I gather more info I have.

[loudnclear]

19. Remember Peter Grace was Reagan BIG pal and donar.

That's why the Grace Co. got the contract for their study on reorganizing and downsizing governement...the folks who brough you A-76 (contracting out).

[seemslikeadream]

21. Thanks so much loudnclear

I did not know this. How interesting!

[seemslikeadream]

20. Or any of this crap

aprons

air cell pipecovering
ASB weatherproop jacket
AC&S asbestos products
acoustical panels
acoustical tile
Acoustone ceiling tiles
adhesive
aeroflex
Aerogun insulating mix
AFJ board
Aircell
Aircell asbestos board
Aircell block
Aircell paper
Aircell pipecovering
Aircell sheets
Aircell zebra pipecovering
Allbestos
Alumi-Shield pipecoiver
Ambler#2 cement
Amblerex finishing cement
Antisweat covering
Antisweat pipecovering
Armafil
Armaflex
Armaflexsheets
Armflex finish
Armflex tape
Armaglas
Armaglas Flex
Armaglas fire resistant
Armalite
Armalok
Armaspray
Armastemp #10 cement
Armatemp 85% magnesia
Armatemp block
Armatemp cement
Armatemp pipecovering
Armstrong 1/8" vinal ASBE
Armstrong block
Armstrong cal sil
Armstrong fire resistant
Armstrong lagging adhesive
Armstrong pipecovering
Armstrong products
Armstrong woolfelt
Arrestone boiler wall coat
asbestos corrugated sheets
asbestos finish cement
asbestos insulating blanket
Asbesticel
Asbestocel corrugated paper
Asbeston
Asbeston cloth
Asbeston panels
asbestos
asbestos blankets
asbestos blocks
asbestos board
asbestos canvas
asbestos cement
asbestos cement pipe
asbestos cellular pipecover
asbestos cloth
asbestos cord
asbestos curtains
asbestos felt
asbestos fiber
asbestos finishing cement
asbestos flatboard
asbestos forms
asbestos furnace tape
asbestos gaskets
asbestos gloves
asbestos heat bags
asbestos insulating cement
asbestos insulation
asbestos lap
asbestos micarda
asbestos millboard
asbestos mineral wool asbestos mittens
asbestos packing
asbestos panels
asbestos paper
asbestos papert pipecoverings
asbestos products/care
asbestos rollboard
asbestos rope
asbestos seals
asbestos sheets
asbestos sponge block
asbestos cover
asbestos spray
asbestos tape
asbestos textile
asbestos tiles
asbestos weatherproof
asbestos wick
asbestos yarn
asbestospray
asbestos-faced mineral wool
asphalt
Atlasite block
Bestfelt
Bestfelt block
Bestfelt pipecovering
B-H expansion joint
black asbestos
blanket
block
block adhesive
block stick
Blue Mud cement
board
boiler
coiler coating
boiler insulation
brake linings
buck Stay cement
BW firebrick
cables
Cafco adhesive
Cafco blaze shield
Cafco emulsion adhesive
Cafco heat shield
Cafco patching fiber
Cafco powershield
Cafco sealer
Cafco shield-coat
Caqfco spray
calcium silicate
calcium silicate block
calcium silicate canvas
calcium silicate cement
calcium silicate cover
calcium silicate hangers
calcium silicate pipecovering
Calsilite pipecovering
Caltemp cement
canvas
carded asbestos cloth
Cardtemp block
Carey 7M cement
Carey asbestos cement
Carey all temp
Carey asbestos insulating ducts
Carey asbestos cloth
Carey asbestos felts
Carey asbestos tank jackets

[Eat_The_Rich]

22. The Asbestos Question

I was involved in asbestos litigation for over ten years as a paralegal. We had many cases against W.R. Grace. I was in NYC a good portion of the time doing discovery on these lawsuits. I was in the WTC. The big problem in these buildings was the fireproofing. As I stated before, Grace made a fireproofing product called Monokote. It was made by the Zonolite Division of W.R. Grace. The stuff that was in the WTC was Asbestospray, manufactured by Carey-Canada, and yes the asbestos in this product came from Canadian mines. There was also pipe covering in these buildings (although I never saw it) that was probably manufactured by Owens-Corning or Owens-Illinois.

[seemslikeadream]

24. So how did your lawsuits go?

Did your clients ever recover? Since Grace is filing bankruptcy have they got their money yet? Owens-Corning is on my list are you saying there's no asbestos in their products? Monokote is just one product, are you saying there was very little asbestos in the towers?

[Eat_The_Rich]

26. Lawsuits

The types of lawsuits I was involved in were "property damage suits". We represented building owners who were suing the manufacturers of the ACM (asbestos containing materials) for removal. Because of EPA rules on asbestos, when any renovation construction takes place, or a building is demolished, the asbestos has to be removed first. This "abatement" process is costly. So basically, our clients were suing for the cost of removal. Yes, our clients did recover some money, several million in fact. These suits took place back in the late 80's and early 90's when Grace was still settling them.
With regards to Owens-Corning, yes there is asbestos in their products. What I was referring to was the fact that at a point in our lawsuits, we decided to go for the "big ticket" item, which was the spray-on fireproofing, and forget about the other things like pipe covering and floor tile. One of our legal arguments was that the fireproofing had to be removed because it was releasing fibers into the building. We were able to prove this by some very simple tests. We set small canisters above the ceiling and below the structural steel beams (that had the fireproofing) and left them there for 90 days. We then collected them and viewed their contents using electron microscopy (SEM and TEM). Lo and behold, we found asbestos fibers! the pipe coverings and floor tiles and the like are not so much a health hazard when they are inplace because the asbetos fibers are "encapsulated" and not prone to release.
I can assure you that there was a huge amount of asbestos released when the WTC went down. As I mentioned before, The fireproofing in the WTC was a mineral wool type product manufactured by Carey-Canada, called Asbestospray. This product has a very high asbestos content, normally 10% - 20%. Correspondingly, Monokote has a content of only 5%. Becasue this is a mineral wool product, it is extremely prone to releasing asbestos fibers. All one has to do is rub an hand across it and the stuff literally crumbles.
My personal opinion is that when those towers came down, that dust cloud was full of asbestos fibers.
Finally, thanks for asking about this stuff. I know my posts and responses can seem a little sterile and standoffish (if there is such a word). Like they say in the DU Lounge "I did asbestos litigation for 10 years, ask me anything!" I love to talk about this stuff!

[seemslikeadream]

29. Thanks for the reply

And just think what Grace would have had to pay to get rid of all the asbestos in the Twin Towers. But I guess the City of New York and the federal government helped them out on this one!

[seemslikeadream]

12. Was there any of these things in the towers?

lagging adhesive
lagging cloth
lagging tape
lagtone
lag seal
leggings
limpet spray
limpet spray asbestos
Litecase 30 S
LK block
LKblock
LK pipecovering
LKcalcium sillcate
LK-12 calciom sillicate
LT block
LT pipcovering
LT sealer
Magnesia block
Magnesia cement
Magnesia covering
Magnesia insulating cement
Marinite insulating panel
Magnesia pipcovering
masonry fill
mastic
mastic ahesives
metal mesh blanket
Micabestos
Miccarda plate and tube
millboard
Mills boiler
mineral wool insulating cement
mineral wool
mineral wool blankets
mineral wool blocks
mittens
mitts
molded cork pipcovering
monoblock
monofoam
Monokote
Monoplast Mono-ply insulting cement
Monospray
mortat mix
Mulitiply block
Mulitiply pipcovering
Mundet pipcovering
Mundet products
Mundetblock
Mundetcork
N-1200 block
National gypsum sheetrock
National gypsum board
rollboard
rope
rope packing
roughing cement
Ruberoid block
Ruberoid calsilite
Ruberoid cement
Ruberoid hi-temp cement
Ruberoid pipcovering
S&K ranger boiler jacket
Safekote cement
Salmo glazed aircell
Seal fast adhestive
sealer
sheet packing
sheet rope
sheetrock
sheet
shingles
silicate calsiltie
Silvabestos cloth
sleeves
Smith & Kanzler products
Sniper 3000 cement
spackle
Sparkfast adhestive
Speedlag
Splicegard
spongefelt
sprayfireproofing
spun felt
stalastic
steam generator
Stic-Tite cement
Stik-tab cement
stone corrugated sheets
Super "66" insulating cement
Super 48 cement
Super 711
Super D blockinsulate
Super finish stic- tite cement
Super finish cement
Super high temp cement
Super insulation tape
Super light block
Super powerhouse cement
Super stic-tite sement
Superex48 insulating cement
Superex pipe covering
Super-light cement
Superseal packing
Supertemp blocking

[donsu]

15. dream - you are one of the best

nt

[seemslikeadream]

16. Oh thank you so much

That really means alot to me. But you know its only my Irish temper to blame. And I'm not done yet, that's only the last half of the alphabet, where wool is mentioned!

[seemslikeadream]

30. donsu you wouldn't mind reading a few more, would you?

Navy sealer
Navy standard hairfelt
Newtherm pipecovering
NG Asbestos millboard
Nicolet pipecovering
Nicolet/Keasby products
noon-sweat pipe insulation
non-sweat pipe covering
Novabewtos
Novatex
Nsuilote
nuclear reactor w/comp
OCF asbestos cloth
OCF products
one coat cement
one coat insulating cement
one coat finishing cement
Osnaburg
Owens-Corning 660 cement
Pabco
Pabco block
Pabco caltemp pipecover
Pabco F-1 hydraulic cement
Pabco pipecovering
Pabco super caltemp block
packing
packing material
paint
paper
paper tape
patching plaster
Perf-a-tape
Perlite
Perlite spray surface
Perlite super 40
Permiseal
Perma board
Philip Carey procucts
pipe insulation
Pitcote
Pittsburgh Corning products
Pittwrat
plaster
plastic cork
Plicaste cement
Polybestos cloth
pork chop boiler Porterlag
Portersite
Powerhouse cement
Prasco pipcovering
preformed pipe wrap
pumps
pumps and packing
pumps with packiing
putty
Pyrobar blocks
Pyrokure
Pyrokure paper
Pyrokure tape
Pyroscat fireproofing
Pyrospray
Pyrotex
quick-setting jooint compound
quick treat compound
quickset cement
R & I block
R & I unsulating cement
Racko asbestos cement
railroad asbestos railroad electrical arc chutes
range boiler jacket
raw asbestos
raw asbestos fiber
Raybestos amosite blanket
Raymark brake linings
Raymark products
ready mix joint compound
Red Top plaster
Red Top products
refractory cements
regular pipecovering
Rexalt
Rhinoestos cloth
Riley Stoker asbestos products
Rockwool insulation
Rockwool asbestos products
Rockwool block
roofing felt
roofing paper
roofing products

supplied/distributed ASBE
supplied/distributed PRO
Supplier
T/NA insulator jacket
tape
tar paper
temp check block
temp check pipecovering
terra lite
Terrybestos
therm Block
Thermasbestos block
Thermabestos metalonP/C
Thermaguard
Thermaguard asbestos cloth
Therma-K block
Therma-K pipecoveriing
Thermalcoat
Thermasil
Thermasil block
Thermasil cement
Thermasil pipecovering
Thermasil-general
Thermo 12
Thermo 12 pipecovering
Thermobestos
Thermobestos pipecover
Thermoblock
Thermokote
Thermolite
Thermon heat cement
Thermotex B
Thermotex B paper
Thermotex B weatherpro
thin set matrerials
Titegrip cement
Transite board
Transite pipe asbestos
Tri-bestos
Tri-calite blockinsulation
troweled coating
turbines
turbins with ancill insulatrion
U.S. gypsum spray
Unarco amocel pipecover
Unarco board
Unarco cloth
Unarco insulating cement
Unarco mineral wool
Unarco products
Unibestos
Unibestos block
Unibestos pipecovering
Unibestos products/distribution
USG aircell pipecover
USG hairfelt
USG woolfelt
Util thermal finish cement
valve rings
valves and packing style
various JM products
V-Dent pipe insulation
Vee block
Vermont asbestos
Versakote
vinyl gypsum adhesive
vinyl wallpaper
Vitricel asbestos sheet
Vitricel cement
wallboard
waterproofing
Weathercote asphalt CM
Weatherkote
Weatherseal
weld-on cement
welding rods
white surface cement
wick
wire mesh blanket
wires
Woolfe LT pipecovering
Woolfelt covering
Wovenstone
yarn
yellow insulation
Zono plaster
Zono-coistic
Zonolite cement
Zonolite asbestos
Zonolite decorrators
Zonolite dry cement
Zonolite higth temp
Zonolite mono-cote
Zonolite plaster
Zonolitespray insulation
Zonolite spra-tex

[seemslikeadream]

34. Did I mention asbestos causes cancer?

Did I mention W.R. Grace was the source of all the asbestos in all these products? Did I mention W.R. Grace knew about asbestos 30 years ago? Did I mention W.R. Grace is filing bankruptcy? Did I mention the White House is still holding up that EPA report?