A few facts about the school that "banned the Declaration"

[Archae]

When are the fundys going to actually tell the *GASP* truth about that asinine lawsuit they have going against the school they lie about?

School-religion spotlight on Cupertino

TEACHER SUES DISTRICT OVER BAN ON MATERIALS, SPURS E-MAIL FLOOD

By Connie Skipitares and Maya Suryaraman

Fox News is in town today. Tomorrow, it's "Good Morning America." Conservative America is up in arms. And Cupertino is squarely in the spotlight.

Attracting all the attention is a public school teacher's lessons on colonial history -- religion-laced looks at documents written by some of the Founding Fathers.

(snip)

A press release from the school district said:

"The district has not violated anyone's constitutional rights. Media coverage regarding the lawsuit has substantially mischaracterized the content of the Cupertino Union School District's curriculum. It has incorrectly been reported that the district has banned the teaching of the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. In reality, no such ban exists."

Lorence said he believes the district was responding to a single parent's complaint. Williams, he said, has been teaching colonial history with the same materials for seven years without incident. Last year, a parent complained when Williams brought religious-based materials to elaborate on a class discussion about the inclusion of "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. After that, all of Williams' teaching materials came under scrutiny by Vidmar, the lawyer said.

But if there is support for Williams in this school community of upscale ranch-style homes, it wasn't readily apparent Tuesday.

In the principal's office, a small round conference table brimmed with flowers, a huge Toblerone chocolate bar, stacks of cards and valentines from the children in one classroom, all expressing support for the embattled principal.

And a few blocks from the school, a home festooned with Christmas lights also sported a home-made lawn sign proclaiming, "Keep Religion out of Public Schools."

"If I want my kids going to church, I'll take them," said Nathalie Schuler of her lawn sign.

Schuler said she is requesting that her daughter not be placed in Williams' class next year.

"They're alienating those of us who are not as fundamentalist," Schuler said.

Several parents said that Williams' fervent Christian beliefs had been a topic of concern and conversation among parents at the school well before the lawsuit.

"Mr. Williams discusses his Christianity in the classroom," said Dorothy Pickler, who has two children at Stevens Creek. "He slants lessons in that direction. Parents have complained."

Armineh Noravian, whose son had Williams last year, said that the teacher wore a Jesus ring, a cross near the collar of his shirt and talked to his students often about his Bible study classes.

Noravian said that when Williams sent his students home with a proclamation for national prayer day from President Bush, she and other parents complained to the principal.

"The class was studying George Washington at the time," Noravian said. "It had nothing to do with George W. Bush or the proclamation of prayer."

Noravian said that Williams' discussion of his Christian faith troubled her because Stevens Creek is a diverse school with many Jewish, Hindu and other non-Christian students.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/10365917.htm

The two sons of bitches bringing the lawsuit:

Williams himself, doesn't he looked spaced out?



And his legal flack, Jordan Lawrence, who looks like your typical fundy liar:

[vpigrad]

1. Those Jebus-freaks...

are really strange. Do they ever tell the truth? Is anything this idiot said publically about the incident true? He'll get spanked in court.

[arikara]

2. Stupid white men

Here's their brother.

[zmdem]

3. Your post doesn't really address the complaint

The issue was that the teacher used some source material from the founding era that referenced religion. For that he got into trouble. Fact is the founders did refer to religion, or a Creator, etc. in their public and private writings.

Why should a teacher be put behind the 8 ball because he uses original documents from the era, rather than just text books ? Seems to me reading actual source material from an historical period would be quite valuable to the student.

Why shouldn't a student of the founding era be able to read Washington, Jefferson, Adams, etc., in their own words ?

[vpigrad]

4. Scatches head...

Did you READ what he did? What he did was wrong. It was illegal and immoral. Try paying attention to the facts.

[zmdem]

8. I think I read the post

And I have read other accounts of this incident. The teacher wore a crucifix, gave his students a copy of a presidential proclomation, gave them source material from the founding era re: religion in society.

I can't comment on the legality, as I am not an attorney. As to the morality, no I do not view this as immoral.

[vpigrad]

9. Ummm...

And you see nothing wrong, illegal, and immoral with what he did?

(I was trying to give you a hard time before, and sorry about that. I shouldn't have. I'm being serious when I ask that question, because I have trouble understand why someone wouldn't feel like what the guy did was very wrong.)

[zmdem]

11. Hi vpigrad, let me explain

I don't care what the teacher's personal beliefs are. IF all he did was provide UNEDITED source material, (like letters, speechs, oped pieces, etc.), from various of the founding fathers, then I have no problems whatsoever. IF he gave snippets out of context, then I do indeed have a problem.

The founders had varied views on the church/state issue, just as we do now. A candid look at their original writings on the matter are of historical interest, but not if they have been edited to suggest something not intended.

;)

[AZCat]

12. That's part of the problem

See my post below for a few links that go in-depth into the lawsuit and the events surrounding it, but I can give you a few bits of info here.

1) The teacher in question did provide cherry-picked information. He had a list of quotes from various well-known Americans that supported his claim that our country was based on Christianity. Unfortunately, he did not provide material that directly conflicts with the quotes he had selected. Some of these quotes are disputed by historians.

2) The teacher also used what has been called "Washington's Prayer Diary/Journal", even though it's authenticity has been disputed by several major Washington biographers.


While the origins of our Constitution are certainly worth discussing (even in the context of religion/Christianity) it does no good to bring in disputed materials without caveat, or to present information selected to bolster a particular argument while ignoring equally valuable information that just happens to counter that argument.

[zmdem]

15. Thanks Cat, I'll check out your links n/t

[sonicx]

5. he wasn't trying to teach the students anything.

he was snipping out the 'God' parts to basically preach to the kids. The school hasn't banned anything. but that doesn't stop FOX and the nutjobs to lie and say they did.

[realisticphish]

6. thats fine

if the student is reading washington, adams, and jefferson in their own words. but the students are ONLY presented with documents that back up the teacher's beliefs; an educator must always strive to present ALL the information


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[AZCat]

7. Please check these recent informative threads

Underpants had a good thread with lots of info. The discussion was continued in Kadie's. Please read them (and any links provided) and then reconsider your statements regarding both the teacher's purpose and his "actual source material".

Underpants: Okay let's open our books to "'God' and the Declaration and Constitution"

Kadie: Battle over God in U.S. history class

[zmdem]

16. My thoughts

I'm not familiar with Washington's "Prayer Journal". Based on what I know of the man, it does sound suspect. Extracting brief quotes from several presidents is also suspect, I could provide quotes from Th. Jefferson that would seem to indicate a belief in orthodox Christianity, even tho' Jefferson's view on the matter was a bit different.

On the whole, I suspect you are correct re: what the teacher was providing. A shame too, as offering students actual source documents and not just text book pablum is a nice idea.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply to me.

[JohnnyRingo]

10. It would be fun to hear the con-pundits if a teacher with Islamic beliefs

...whipped out a copy of the Koran in Civics class.

Ohhhh...That's different.

[AZCat]

13. Ahh, but it HAS happened (sorta)

Remember when, in 2002, the University of North Carolina required incoming freshmen to read the Koran?

N.C. college's summer read draws heat
Posted on Thu, Aug. 08, 2002
By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post

No one complained two years ago when the University of North Carolina required its incoming freshmen to read a book about the lingering effects of the Civil War, or last year when it assigned a book about a Hmong immigrant's struggle with epilepsy and American medicine.

But this year, the university in Chapel Hill is asking all 3,500 incoming freshmen to read a book about Islam, and it finds itself besieged in federal court and across the airwaves from Christian evangelists and other conservatives.
<snip>

"We're obviously not promoting one religion," Moeser told concerned university trustees last month. "What more timely subject could there be?"

But a national TV talk-show host, Fox News Network's Bill O'Reilly, compared the assignment to teaching Mein Kampf in 1941 and questioned the purpose of making freshmen study "our enemy's religion."
<snip>


And there you have it. :)

[JohnnyRingo]

14. I remember that,... now that you mention it.

They wanted him fired!

Luckily, it wasn't a public school....They may have fired AT him.

[catzies]

17. Stephen Williams will be recruited to run. He looks 100% GOP material.

Bet he's on the school board within 5 years.