Fights, fights, fights...

[GaYellowDawg]

Yeah, I'm a newbie, but I wanted to throw something out there.

I've been away for some time, being busy with schoolwork, and I logged on here hoping for some sanity. Instead, I saw lots of nasty infighting. I saw two themes that everyone really ought to be able to resolve in a more constructive fashion.

1. "F**k the South." I'm from the south. I'll open this by saying that I'm tired of hearing characterizations of southerners as unintelligent.

I'm going to be a third-generation Ph.D. in the next couple of years, and yes, my father and grandfather are/were southerners. I've never taken a standardized test - up to and including the GRE - in which I didn't score 90th percentile or better, and I wasn't even close to the smartest person in my high school class from a small town in TN; that would be Dr. Charles Whetsel, who heads up the Mars missions in JPL. Anyhow, enough self-aggrandizement.

I was going to argue that states in the southwest such as Utah and states in the middle of the country, like Nebraska, elected Bush with a far larger margin than most of the southeast, but then I realized something that made me want to type this post a lot worse. The realization was that in attempting to shift attention to another region, I was simply perpetuating regional polarization. That lands me squarely in the Republican Party's evil hands. Everyone on here knows that Republicans campaign on fear, but has anyone stopped to think that the common theme of that fear is fear of the outsider? Fear of someone who's different from you?

Whether it's Muslims, atheists, "librul elites," the northeast, the west coast, Hollywood, abortionist doctors, activist judges, the common themes linking Republican campaigns in the southeast center on the outsider who will take something precious from you, whether it's (in no particular order) your life, the lives of the unborn, your Bible, your guns, your liberties, your children's education, your money... it goes on and on. Campaigns of fear and polarization have made the southeast more xenophobic because there's been no resonant counter. Assault - in any fashion - a culture that has a tendency towards xenophobia, and you're not going to cure it. You'll intensify it.

When you say "F**k the South", all you do is play straight into the hands of the fearmongers and the polarizers. Conservative media plays the fear game by taking an extreme example and conflating it with a general premise. You provide an extreme example, and they'll use it. Republicans rule through fear and division. Don't help them.

2. I'm a little tired of the typecasting of Christianity, too. I'm Christian. I've written term papers on fundamentalist culture for an anthropology course, and written a paper for a philosophy of science class delineating how creationism isn't a science, and have spoken at an public activist meeting - GCISE - for the complete exclusion of creationism/intelligent design from the public school curriculum in Georgia. I don't push my religion on anyone, and in return, I hope for a little courtesy in not having it bashed. I extend that principle to government; I expect to be able to practice my religion, and I expect my government to keep its fingers out of everyone's choices regarding religion.

With that said, if you want to bash fundamentalism, have at it. However, please realize that not all Christians are fundamentalists, so the conflation of the terms can result in some real hurt feelings... and aren't the desires to not hurt others and to protect others from getting hurt two real core values of liberalism? I'll even give you a practical reason... "fundies" is easier to type on a QWERTY keyboard than "Christians." ;-)

Well, gotta go now. Time to write some term papers, now that I've gotten the fingers warmed up.

[Cuban_Liberal]

1. Beautifully written!

As someone who grew up in the South, mostly, I'm a little tired of the South bashing, too.

:thumbsup:

[Stinky The Clown]

3. As someone born in the northeast and who has lived in the south for many

yars, I, too, am tired of this bashing.

The key to winning is not in bashing. That's the key to losing.

[RubyDuby in GA]

4. As someone who refuses to give in to the Republican bastards here

I really appreciate that.

I will not go quietly. I will not give in without a fight.
And I'm not leaving the land of pork rinds :)

[salinen]

2. What will your Doctorate

be? Curious.

[GaYellowDawg]

6. Re: Doctorate

Well, it started out in Genetics, but after two years of coursework and being a teaching assistant, I realized that my heart lay in teaching rather than research... so it's Science Education. Thankfully, UGA has one of the top Science Ed departments in the nation, and I was lucky enough to be admitted as a transfer. It's been one of the best moves of my life; my perspectives have really broadened and I have loved the experience.

[andino]

5. The city with the largest number of Ph. Ds per capita is....

Huntsville Alabama. Or at least it was a few years ago. To be honest I haven't checked since I lived there 5 years ago.

There are a lot of hard working, honest, intelligent, liberal people all over this great nation. Lately it seems that most here seem to forget that. Not everyone in the south voted for Bush. But once again most have forgotten that as well. It is easy to throw out broad stokes and paint the south as all 'Red' but everyone must remember that by doing that you are reinforcing the republicans accusations that we are out of touch with people in those states.

People are people. The people that voted for Bush in the south had a reason. We need to do two things. One is to find out 'that reason(s)' that they voted for him for strategic reasons of our own and the second thing is to work hard to get them to vote for our guy the next time. Saying things like "We don't need the south" and "F*ck the South" only makes it harder for us to actually win votes there. Not to mention that it only makes us look like idiots.

If there is anything that we *should* have learned from the last two presidential elections it is this, we need to strive to pick up a few of these states if we ever want to be the majority party again. For example, in 2000, if Gore would have taken Tennessee then Bush would have never been in office. And I don't have to tell you what a few of the southern states would have done this election.

[RedEarth]

7. Excellent post.....

I'm also from the south(Oklahoma) and like you, my son and daughter haven't scored lower than the 90th percentile or better on all of their tests. My son will be starting his PhD next year and my daughter has already been accepted to graduate school at the OU Health Science Center....can you believe it.. we're from the south.

Best of luck with the rest of your school...

[andino]

18. Hey, We live in Norman.

My wife is a 3rd year Pediatric resident at OUHSC. :)

[RedEarth]

20. Norman is a great town

My wife and I are both OU grads. Hope you and your wife enjoy living in Norman. If you like east Indian food, you ought to check out Misals of India...one of my favorite restaurants.

[andino]

23. We go there all the time.

My wife and I also LOVE Victorias Pasta Shop.

[HEAVYHEART]

8. Nice post

Hey I'm from a red state too! Welcome to DU GaYellowDawg!

:headbang:

[indigobusiness]

9. Everybody hates Texans.

Texans want you anyway.

[cheezus]

10. complain about the flamewars by starting another one

what a great idea! :eyes:

[GaYellowDawg]

12. No offense, but...

I don't believe that my post can be characterized as a flame. I didn't attack anyone, either as a group or individually. In fact, let me state that if anyone perceives it as an attack, I want to tell any of you that I apologize for whatever text offended, because it certainly wasn't my intent. I am trying to build bridges, not burn them.

[carolinayellowdog]

14. You didn't start a flame war; only one obnoxious post so far

and that from someone who is bashing the South at this very moment in another thread. I can kinda see the sneering superiority when it comes from blue staters, but from NORTH DAKOTA?!? 63% Bush, 36% Kerry. Gimme a break.

[cheezus]

17. oh, have I been defending the morons in my state?

not that I can recall

[Carl Brennan]

11. Keep in mind

Some people here at DU are trying to create chaos.

[GaYellowDawg]

13. I didn't think about that.

Call me naive, I guess. I do know that seeding isn't effective if there's no fertile ground, so I wanted to try to post something that would, perhaps, make people stop and think a little. I understand the strong feelings about the election. I share them. I just wanted to provide people with a rationale for not getting into fights.

[Carl Brennan]

16. I think this is a good topic . I was just adding to it. Welcome to DU

:toast:

[UpsideDownFlag]

15. thank you...you said it with the eloquence which my thread lacked.

but the point is the same. :toast:

[Nordic]

19. a lot of us are tired of being "nice"

You know, the "nice" democrats like Donna Brazille and those who just say "yes, I see what you mean, you have a point" every time there is hatred and blood lust thrown OUR way.

We're sick of that shit and we're ready to fight those 62% of redneck stupid asshole Southerners or WHEREVER they're from who want to destroy us.

We're at war. The right wing isn't playing politics, it's at war with US. They want to destroy us, and they're slowly succeeding.

We're pissed off about it and we're not gonna take it anymore.

FUCK THEM TO HELL

[Bethany Rockafella]

21. The mods says that you can't call a poster a newbie....

including yourself. This thread should be locked.

[m berst]

22. thanks for the thoughtful post

Welcome to DU GaYellowDawg.

I agree that bashing the South and Christianity is wrong. It is also not very smart.

Why would we not want to support our beleaguered liberal friends in communities where they are out-numbered, rather than demonizing and bashing the whole community? Why would we want to reinforce Falwell's propaganda - "those liberals hate Christians" - and the right wing propaganda - "those New England liberals hate regular people" and give them more credibility?

I was in a coffee shop in Detroit a few years ago and heard a couple of elderly women speaking a Slavic language and asked them if they were speaking Polish. "No, no, Croatian!" one of them said enthusiastically. The concept of a "Croatian language" is itself radically nationalistic, by the way, since the Serbian and the Croatian language are identical for all practical purposes. Then she says "we are celebrating today because the Croatian army has beaten back the Serbians." I said that there were 100,000 innocent men, women, and children evicted from their homes in winter weather fleeing for their lives as we spoke, and asked her if that bothered her. "They did it to us!" she replied indignantly.

The thinking there is that it is OK to hate people if you can convince yourself that they hate you. If you asked a Serbian the same question, you would get the same answer.

The Southern states go Republican because they are more rural, it seems to me. There are plenty of rural Republican counties in the North, but they get offset by the Democratic vote in the large cities. Take Detroit out of Michigan and you have Alabama, politically. Take Cincinnati and Cleveland out of Ohio and you have Mississippi.