I think all politicians have lost credibility with voters.

[KlatooBNikto]

This is the reason more and more exaggerated tales have to be told each season to hold voters' attention, enemies have to be manufactured, paranoia has to be instilled and opponents have to be smeared in order for any candidate to win. The Republicans, by nature and through long practice, are better at this game than Democrats.

This is also one other reason why the Republicans are now resorting to the use of celebrities in one form or another to win elections in key states, as for example in California with Schwarzenegger.

The DNC, under the influence of the DLC gang, has completely misread the election results. The 49% of the voters that voted for Kerry are true Democrats that were kept in the fold by the selfless campaigning of Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton, Michael Morre and other loyal Democrats. If our candidates do not pull in our punches and stick to our principles ( No illegally orchestrated wars, no tampering with Social Security and Medicare,No tax cuts based on supply side fraud), we can further energize our base and beat the Republicans.Remove the shackles we have voluntarily placed on ourselves because of the DLC gang's influence.

That is, if our elections are still conducted with honesty.

[American Tragedy]

1. Latent progressive base theory? I don't buy it.

Tell me, if these masses of supposed liberals couldn't bear to invest a few precious minutes out of a Tuesday to vote out the most right-wing president in American history, in favor of one of the most liberal, what exactly would motivate them? What the fuck are they waiting for?

[KlatooBNikto]

2. Most of the people who stayed away were blacks and Hispanics, who did

not have a dog in that hunt. Kerry under the influence of the DLC gang,basically muted his overtures to that loyal constituency and was embarrassed to be seen in their company. He was correctly rewarded with indifference.

[JI7]

3. minorities came out in larger numbers than ever

they came out in higher numbers than ever for Kerry. more than in past elections. many of them travelled to places like Ohio to help GOTV.

and Kerry's campaign was run by Kennedy people, not the DLC.

[KlatooBNikto]

4. That turnout could have been even larger if Kerry had openly

acknowledged his debt to that constituency and stated his support for issues of importance to them.He was peddling a watered down version that was formulated by the consultants like Bob Shrum who is nothing but a DLC operative.

[JI7]

5. he did, and Bob Shrum is a Kennedy guy not DLC

Kerry was often in black communities and churches. the numbers were higher than ever. one thing that might have hurt him somewhat was the gay rights issue as many black voters tend to be opposed to it. but black voters still came out in very high numbers and voted for Kerry while at the same time voting for the anti gay amendments on ballots.

[KlatooBNikto]

6. There are many people in the black and Hispanic communities who were

uncomfortable with Kerry's total embrace of Sharon's government.That was a position advocated by the neocon/DLC axis. That had to have a repellent effect on many blacks/hispanics. Kerry paid a price for that.

[JI7]

7. got any scientific numbers to show how many didn't vote based on

those issues ?

first you claim the black/hispanic voters didn't vote because of the dlc and when i reminded you that they came out in larger numbers than ever and voted mostly for Kerry you bring up some issue that most voters don't have any thought on and claim that had some effect on turnout. can you provide numbers to show this to be the case ?

[KlatooBNikto]

8. No. But black voters have seen the danger that the Bush Administration

represents for them and would have voted for any Democratic candidate, not just Kerry. But there is a large segment of the black population which is now doubtful of any politician that shows up every four years singing" We shall Overcome" and expects them to vote for him. They want to see a steady representation of issues of concern to them.Because of the DLC's influence, that constituency has been ignored if not stifled.

In a matter as subjective as voter preferences, nothing anybody says or does can be "scientific". You say what you believe and I will say what I believe.Let us leave it at that.

[JI7]

9. too funny

that's what the "morals and values" people did. base their analysis on what a few people said. of course the numbers now show there was no significant "morals and values" voters compared to previous elections that tipped it to bush.

and first you claim black voters didn't come out to vote because of the dlc or whatever. and you claimed shrum was dlc when even that wasn't true as shrum is a kennedy guy as most of kerry's campaign management and staff was. and now you claim blacks voted for kerry as they would have voted for any democrat even though before you claimed they didn't come out.

and now you say conclude with "you say what you believe and i say what i believe". but it's not really an issue of belief as it's of facts when you claim black/hispanic voters didn't come out when they came out in larger numbers than ever and voted for kerry.

[KlatooBNikto]

10. And you claim that just because Kerry made a few apopearances at black

churches, he did not ignore them? That is also quite funny.

[JI7]

11. he did more than make a few appearances at black churches

he went into many black areas, and other events dealing with issues concerning black voters such as urban league, naacp,. he had town hall meetings, including at homes of people and many were in mostly black neighborhoods.

and he has a record to back him up. such as dealing with environmental racism issues, setting up programs to help young minority kids which he started over a decade ago. and many other things.

so, he didn't just make a few appearances at black churches as you claim.

[KlatooBNikto]

12. Ask him where he stands on Cynthia McKinney's seniority. That

kind of issue is very important to African-Americans.

[JI7]

13. can you give me some evidence

to suggest that the issue of cynthia mckinney's seniority is very important to african americans ?