Can we build a decent society,with the right wing among us?

[Swede]

To them it's all about cash. Do we have enough numbers to drag the world into a decent caring world? They denigrate us,sneer, say "liberal" like it is a curse. Liberal is about caring. He ain't heavy,he's my brother.

[havocmom]

1. With tounge firmly in cheek: Sure, so long as WE are the ones doing

the mental health screening and drug despensing ;)

Do we really want a nation where everyone is alike, be it left or right? I'd like a nation where we could agree to disagree again. That would be good.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. No you can't. Because they think that greed is an acceptable

factor in a civilized society. They begrudge anyone who gets in the way of their shrewd manipulations. And those manipulations are not only allowed, but encouraged. If you look how we allow a scavenger industry to flourish by allowing anyone to buy defaulted taxes on property. The number of years to default on property is incredibly low. In Florida, I think it's something like two years. When you also have public officials who themselves buy those defaulted taxes, then it encourages government officials to be less helpful to the public. The public is no longer their fiduciaries.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

3. I am seriously beginning to doubt it.

:(

[BillZBubb]

4. No, not with the right as currently configured.

It's actually good to have conservatives in the mix for stable society. But what we have now is a monstrosity. The right controls governments, both national and local. They control the courts. They control the business interests. They control the media. They control the military.

We are in "Social Darwinism, dog eat dog" times now. It will come to an unhappy end. The people will then wake up and demand a decent society. But first, there is a boatload of pain to be delivered.

[Starlight]

5. I think the key is public education. And the media.

We need to be teaching our children compassion, empathy, ethics, courage, honesty, honor & respect. And the media should embrace those same characteristics. We need to revere people displaying these positive characteristics rather than our current idolization of selfishness, hate & greed.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

6. While I agree that we need to teach our kids those things

Why is the media supposed to embrace our values over those of others?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

7. The media is the reason for the demise of civil society

it's not about embracing one set of values over the other-it's about showing BOTH sides. Right now the media is dominated by the vitriolic right and parrots their RW, anti-democratic values 24/7.

And I'm really not sure if "our" values are "your" values...

[AliciaKeyedUp]

9. Well, I'm not sure your values are my values

In fact, I don't know anyone who shares 100% of another's values. Thank god. That would be too bland.

My guess is you watch too much cable news and listen to dreaded talk radio. There's a lot more to media out there than that. Much of it esposes our (or at least leftwing if you don't support such) values.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

12. No, I don't listen to RW radio AT ALL.

I do occasionally watch cable news.

Name one liberal news show on TV. Name one liberal pundit on TV. Do you really believe the media esposes liberal values? If so, you are really delusional...

[AliciaKeyedUp]

13. You missed my point

There is tons more to media than news. That was and is my point.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

15. And lucky me, I am very well-informed

how about you? What are your news sources? I'd love to know about any liberal ones I've missed. And remember, the internet doesn't count-I know all those liberal websites and blogs.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

16. My news sources

Washington Post, net (love Bartcop when time permits), some TV news (most of it sucks), NYT when I have the time and of course stuff I see here at DU, which is the main reason I am here.

Now do I have to sign somewhere in blood as well?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

17. You're the one with the unreasonable tone.

I only said that your positions are pretty transparent. Maybe I was wrong.

Have a good night-it's nearly 1 AM here in the East.

[Starlight]

8. If the characteristics I listed...

"compassion, empathy, ethics, courage, honesty, honor & respect" are only our Democratic values and are somehow offensive to the general public and our media, then our society is in even worse shape that I thought. :(

[AliciaKeyedUp]

10. I think we would both agree not everyone embraces them

So maybe it is in worse shape. But this is not news.

[Starlight]

19. But that's my point.

Our society & media glorify vain, stingy, arrogant, unprincipled, self-indulgent, superficial, money grubbing personalities. These people are our role models. "Do-gooders" are either ignored or denigrated. People, especially men, who are kind & gentle are portrayed as weak, cowardly & effeminate. A "manly" man is cruel, cold & shallow. Plus he makes a lot of money & drives a big car. Because that's what's really important in life. :eyes: In case we ever forget, Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous will remind us. :puke:

[AliciaKeyedUp]

20. My point

Is why should the media decide one set of values is better than another? You are asking the media to take sides in every debate, in effect. I don't want that. I'd like them to be what Faux claims and doesn't deliver -- fair and balanced.

[Starlight]

26. I disagree. I don't think it's "fair & balanced" to fail to differentiate

between corruption, exploitation, fraud, barbarity, ignorance and honesty, truthfulness, incorruptibility, integrity, respect, conscience. Presenting corruption & integrity as two equally acceptable behavior choices is NOT responsible teaching or journalism is a civil society.

[More Than A Feeling]

11. Yes, we have no choice

Like it or not, at the end of the day we all have to live together, so we have no choice but to find some way to get along.

Besides, tension between liberal and conservative is part of what moves this country forward. Liberals introduce change, conservatives dig in and resist, but slowly give way, allowing society to move forward cautiously and carefully.

At least, that is how it used to work, I am told. Nowadays, we have very few conservatives, mostly reactionaries, and it is liberals who are digging in, trying to prevent regressive change. Liberalism has lost its natural advantage of initiative.

However, this will not stand, this aggression will not stand, man. It won't last forever. We will pick ourselves back up out of the rubble, and start rebuilding. This time, we will learn the lessons of the 60's and 70's, and use our time in power wisely. I only hope that day is within my lifetime.

[Nordic]

14. we haven't heard much from the Tim McVeighs of the world lately

Ya know?

My point being that these people are gonna fuck things up so badly that they're gonna be embarrassed to ever admit to being a part of the RW.

My wife told me about a great film in France (she used to live there), a documentary about people in France who, during the war and during the German occupation, were very upbeat about the Nazis and the occupation.

The same people were interviewed afterward and pretty much denied everything.

She's suggested somebody make a documentary like that now. Interview the pro-Bush people now, and then interview them again in five years (or whatever) and edit it all together.

Steal the idea if you want. Any doc makers out there

[Deja Q]

22. It's just possible those crackpots would have knocked on door, assuming

Kerry had won. (while there's been widespread reports of electronic machine faults that the mainstream doesn't seem to care about, with the electoral college in place I sincerely doubt it would have made a difference. And I don't know how the popular vote could be a lie.)

But as more and more people protest, I'm sure the McVeighs will crawl out from under their rocks and throw their destructive slime.

[Nordic]

24. if they can steal a state, they can steal the popular vote

it would be extremely easy once the fox is in the henhouse. I mean, why just steal a state? The diabolically brilliant part of Rove's election theft is the stealing of the "three million votes" that makes it look like he actually won the popular vote.

The shut most people right up, including Kerry.

[GarySeven]

18. NOOO!!!!

For the 230 years of this Republic, Conservatives have been a living threat gnawing at us from within. They have opposed every step of our national effort toward lifting up and empowering the individual, freeing all people, everywhere; their bodies from political oppression and their minds to the ultimate of human potential. Liberalism is, and always has been, about freedom. Conservativism is, and always has been, about repression and conformity. It is a culture of death - of stifling initiative, of acquiescence to authority without requiring authority to justify its existence. It is an anti-ideology which promotes enslaving minds to petty fears and forces people to live unexamined lives with unchallenged assumptions.

Conservativism is what must be destroyed so that freedom can be free, like the cancer that must be excised for the body to live.

[Deja Q]

21. Yes, but don't ask me how we get them to look beyond their balance sheets.

[hollowdweller]

23. Clinton brought a lot of things they wanted, more police, lower crime

lower abortion, reduced deficits, paying down the national debt, welfare reform. So if they looked at the RESULTS and not the MEANS I think we could.

[KG]

25. no we can't. they must be rubbed out.

or, even their mass deportation would work for me.

[neebob]

27. No. Not until you prove to them

that everything they've been taught is wrong - number one being that the vengeful man-god doesn't exist. Unfortunately, the only way to demonstrate that is to have a great big horrific worldwide apocalypse, after which Jesus does not descend from the sky in a grand feat of physical law defiance for all to see. And even then they wouldn't believe it. They'd just figure he changed his mind because the rest of us were too wicked, or it wasn't the real deal.