The Draft -- Mixed Feelings. Let's Discuss.

[theHandpuppet]

First off, let me say this has nothing to do with the war in Iraq, to which I am vehemently opposed. What I truly want is to discuss the draft system of filling the ranks of the military as opposed to an "all-volunteer" service.

Problem is, I truly feel this supposed "all volunteer" army is not so volunteer when you get right down to it. All the talk of service and honor ad infinitum... well, are the working classes and poor the only folks in this country with a sense of duty, because I don't see any rich folks' kids lining up at the recruiting offices. Fact is, when viable opportunities for those "less than wealthy" are systematically reduced, whether that be from slashing Pell grants, exhorbitant college fees, or increased unemployment and outsourcing of jobs, more and more working class and poor youth see enlistment in the military as their only real chance at employment and an education. So what makes this different than the days of the draft riots, when (during the Civil War) the children of wealth could pay some poor slob 300 bucks to take their place on the front lines of battle? Isn't this essentially what's happening now?

Sure, we now have a govt which encourages the poor and working class to eschew reproductive choice (by cleverly playing the religion card), slashes social programs, destroys the unions and outsources the jobs, and what have they created in the process? An entire underclass of folks who will supply an endless stream of bodies to throw at the front lines in order to protect the wealth of the upper classes whose butts are warm and comfy here at home.

Frankly, I think the term "all volunteer" military is a sham. A joke. A massive propaganda game played by those in power. I'll tell you, if the children of the wealthy in this country were shipped off to Iraq and Afghanistan as easily as the poor and minority kids you'd see these wars end tomorrow. When the children of Cheney and Bush and Kerry and every stinkin' warmonger in DC offers up their own kids to fight and die in Iraq, then and only then will we see peace and a real reluctance for "pre-emptive" wars.

So as you can see I'm torn about the idea of a draft and welcome any opinions on the issue.

[shesemsmom]

1. You are absolutely right

I feel the most went into it to get the education they would have otherwise not gotten and ended up in this MESS> I do know of one Boy that wanted to go because he love this country. I hope he doesn't find himself sorry. It's a shame that we don't just take some MOAB'S and drop them and get our kids outta there. And maybe one or to elsewhere and get it over with.....litterally:nuke:

[wordout]

8. HELL NO I WONT GO

"It's a shame that we don't just take some MOAB'S and drop them and get our kids outta there. And maybe one or to elsewhere and get it over with.....litterally"

yeah right,, "lets be sure to bomb all of israels enemies before we leave!!"

pfft.

[nytemare]

2. The problem with the draft and all volunteer army are similar

Both times it ends up usually being the poor guys and gals who are in. The ones with money and influence seem to be able to avoid it. Not all the time, but most. What was it Dubya said about taxes? Something like rich people can afford to pay an accountant to cheat I think. Very telling in Dubya's case, because it can apply to his service as well.

I think a system like Germany with compulsory military or public service would be better. They have their college paid for. Also, if people have to serve, rather than it just being the kids of the poor parents, the reason to go into conflict better be good.

[mandyky]

4. Hey, a soulmate about national service!

Welcome to DU!

[neweurope]

5. We will probably have a voluntary army in Germany soon.

I never liked the draft - but now that a voluntary army lurks on the horizon I object it *sigh* Because 1.) It will only be the poor kids who join it, dying for the rich men's cause, 2) a professional army is much more likely to be used for military adventures and 3) the risk for a military putsch is higher.

[Kellanved]

11. I disagree

I am not convinced that the draft will be abolished in the foreseeable future. It is completely idiotic, but has a strong lobby.

To your points:
1) That is the case already. The Elite is underrepresented in those drafted and practically not present in the ranks of the professional soldiers and NCOs.

2) Tend to agree; but then: why bother with having an army at all? It is not like the draftees are usable for anything.

3) A Army anchored in a Democratic Constitution is unlikely to Putsch. The very real fact is, that Germany has two armies: one professional and one draft-based .

[neweurope]

13. So far the elite hasn't been very underrepresented among the draftees.

It's true that we have professonal soldiers also but in my opinion the draftees are useful to remind everybody that our army is supposed to exist only for defense.

And I do think the volontary army is coming; everybody talks of it.

By the way I always was against having an army at all - let's get out of NATO and declare ourselves neutral. Changed my opinion in this respect, too since I've read up on PNAC... That is: getting out of NATO still seems to be a good idea.

[Kellanved]

12. dupe, please ignore

I am not convinced that the draft will be abolished in the foreseeable future. It is completely idiotic, but has a strong lobby.

To your points:
1) That is the case already. The Elite is underrepresented in those drafted and practically not present in the ranks of the professional soldiers and NCOs.

2) Tend to agree; but then: why bother with having an army at all? It is not like the draftees are usable for anything.

3) A Army anchored in a Democratic Constitution is unlikely to Putsch. The very real fact is, that Germany has two armies: one professional and one draft-based .

[mandyky]

3. I am for a National Service Draft that allows

all young Americans betweeen 18 and 30 to serve their country, either in the military, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, etc. Any Americans who serve should be afforded full "GI Bill-type" benefits, such as educational financial help and help buying homes.

This draft should and could include women and even mildly disabled folks. And we need better healthcare during and after veterans serve our country!

[H2O Man]

6. I oppose a draft in any form.

There is no justification for forcing any age group to "serve" in any institution such as the military. Being 18 to 30 is not a crime. People 18 to 30 are adults, fully capable of making up their own minds about what they want to do. We would not seriously discuss having a draft or national service for people 35 to 50. So let's not discriminate.

The current system may be grossly unfair, in that it seems to attract primarily lower middle class and poor people. It is not a secret that it is in large part because it allows this group a job of sorts, and offers access to college. This implies that if there were plenty of jobs and access to college, these young adults would at least have a choice, whereas today, they do not. The solution to the problem would not be to restrict people's choices; it would be to increase everyone's options.

At the same time, those who do choose the military should be paid far more; be provided better benefits for themselves and families; and have an increased access to higher education.

I also think that there should be something closer to the CCC Camps and WPA. And I think that if K through 12 is "free" in public schools, college should be, also. It is in the nation's best interest to have people well-educated.

[Mari333]

7. Start by drafting these young republicans

DRAFT THESE KIDS FIRST.

[Menshevik]

9. agreed

Hope they are that enthusiastic for Shrub when they're riding in a convoy through the Iraqi desert.

[lesterhalfjr]

10. great pic

Seriously, if Rush Limbaugh would get 500,000 of his listeners to go over there the problem would be solved in like a month. The problem of getting conservatives out of the country that is. It's pretty obvioous we need troops. step up rush

[Sparkly]

14. I have mixed feelings, as well

It's a terrible situation any way you look at it.

I do know one thing: If the draft came back today, there'd be a HUGE outcry including among those who currently cheer the war and the Chimp. The pro-war sentiment would change overnight, right along with the adoration of the Chimp in his fake warrior costumes. That's why they'll keep the backdoor draft and keep recruiting poor kids as long as they possibly can.