Has California lost touch with "reality" ?

[kentuck]

After all, it is the state of illusions, Hollywood, and celebrity. When Arnold was elected in his 'special' election, we could write that off as a fluke in a contrived election scheme. However, when they sentence a person to death without the evidence, unless we consider a hair on a pair of pliars as "evidence", then they are on a slippery slope, in my opinion. And to think that we look to California to lead the nation in change and reform. Does anyone else have this concern?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[kentuck]

3. What was the evidence that was not "circumstantial"?

:shrug: I may have missed it.

[George_S]

13. Something tells me you would celebrate any conviction.

Many death penalty cases are over turned for good reason (a little thing called justice), this could be one.

Maybe not. Saying you trust the jury is one thing. Saying they got it right even though you didn't hear all the evidence it quite another.

[arcane1]

2. um, fyi

California sentenced nobody, 12 Californians on the jury did

try painting w/a smaller brush, please

this Californian could give 2 shits less about Scotty, either way.

[kentuck]

4. All Californians are responsible for their justice system...

just like any other state.

But I see your point. :) Everybody did not vote for Arnold either. But that was disappointing to a lot of people that look to California to lead us.

(edited to add comment)

[arcane1]

7. ah ok, so I am personally responsible for the outcome of this trial

:eyes:

[kentuck]

11. see added comment..

You are correct.

[arcane1]

16. thanks

I see your point too :)

[Der Blaue Engel]

12. And I guess all red state voters are responsible for their president

eom

[bloom]

18. actually - by the same measure

all Americans are responsible for our prezeldent.

[slackmaster]

15. This Californian is glad to have him behind bars

Where he can't hurt any more women or children.

Either Scott Peterson is a dangerous psychopath or he got railroaded and had an incompetent defense. If he really didn't kill his wife he's got 20 years or so to prove it or for the "real killer" to come forward.

[placton]

5. I don't think it's just CA

this is a nationwide epidemic. The recent elections, were, of course an example. But this is a deeper problem.

The comments of the jurors in the recent murder trial that Peterson was not "emotional" enough is a perfect example. Having represented men charged with all manner of crimes, murder included, I know the vast majority act this way. Men are taught to stoically accept even the most unfair situations. These jurors belief they could "look into the soul" of the defendant condemned him without evidence.

And this phenomenon is gonna grow. The media is "just sure" both Kobe and OJ were guilty - and don't think the Peterson jurors weren't aware they were being relied on to make the right decision.

We live in a nation where 45% of us believe that men and dinosaurs co-existed - within the last 10,000 years!

We are headed toward 3rd world status, promoted by our citizens being proud of how stupid they - and their leaders - are.

[George_S]

17. That's what got me.

Guilty of capital attitude. And I thought the jurors were supposed to stick to the testimony and evidence.

Sure, if the defendant testifies they have to duty to try to judge the truthfulness of that, but Peterson didn't testify.

I think it will be overturned maybe for this reason alone. And there is the jury thing. Did they kick out someone who thought he was innocent or at least wanted to stick to the evidence?

[mike_c]

6. that was not a trial-- it was a public and media circus....

California has had the occassional lynch mob just like everywhere else. The important thing to keep in mind is that California has over 600 people on death row and has only executed about 10 since 1978. Scott Peterson will likely have at least 25 years to appeal his conviction and death sentence, and I hope that in that time California comes to its collective senses and abolishes state sanctioned murder altogether.

[Der Blaue Engel]

8. IMHO, the problem is not the verdict, it's state-sanctioned executions

It's absurd and appalling that we still have them.

As for the verdict, I can't say, since I wasn't on the jury, but I'm not sure how 12 jurors and a couple of attorneys can be construed as the voice of California.

[naryaquid]

9. ...I LOVE California, especially the Bay area...

..Where i lived many years ago...I actually dream of it (in the sleep state) fairly often...I know it's sometimes "out there" hanging off the fringes...but I love it beyond all rationality....

p.s. As to the Peterson case, I disagreed with the penalty too (not sure about the guilt)...but I'm not sure this is a "California thing"...Modesto is a pretty conservative community.

[slackmaster]

10. The Peterson verdict doesn't bother me

I've served as a juror on a complicated criminal trial that had only scant physical evidence; no photos, no witnesses, no confession, no smoking gun. We convicted the defendant without much difficulty and I have no hesitation in saying we convicted the right person. I've also been a juror on two civil trials that resulted in verdicts.

I oppose the death penalty and therefore would have been excluded from the Peterson case automatically. Those who served feel differently about it than I do. I have to respect their views and the system, which does get the job done most of the time.

If you haven't ever served as a juror I encourage you to embrace the opportunity should it ever come your way.

When Arnold was elected in his 'special' election, we could write that off as a fluke in a contrived election scheme.

Gray Davis screwed up, and the Republican side took advantage of a provision that has been in the state Constitution for a long time. Schwarzenegger was in the right place at the right time. He'll go away soon enough. Opportunistic, yes. Contrived, no. If the shoe was on the other foot (a Republican governor got ousted and replaced by a Democrat) people on DU would be singing praises for the recall process.

[George_S]

19. Davis screwed up? He got screwed...

... by Bush's pals at Enron. If not for that, no recall despite other faults.

[slackmaster]

21. He could have avoided it by listening to Senator Feinstein

She advised him to let the market take care of the energy "crisis" and he ignored her.

[LisaM]

14. I know, it's all trial by media now.

Actually, they only recommended a sentence. I think the actual sentencing is in February.

What got me was the cheer that went up from the crowd. This is like ancient Rome - cheering for death?? Even if people agree with the sentence, it should be a somber moment, not a cause for celebration.

[jarab]

20. If circumstantial evidence is minimized we

come to the point where the canniest "criminals"- the ones with the most devious methods of disposal and coverup - will escape conviction.
Only the winners of the Darwin Award will be on death row. "Smarts" shouldn't be one of the considerations in convicting or sentencing, imo..
...O...

[necso]

22. Short answer, yes.

if anyone is looking here for leadership, forget about it. We have a hard enough time keeping from being completely pulled into the neocon orbit.

This is la-la-land, more concerned about "celebrity" dirt than anything quite so boring as democracy... or the future.

Of course, and in our defense, most of the whole country has similarly lost touch with reality.

And this isn't going to change anytime soon. -- Because the longer that we wait to become reacquainted with reality, the tougher it will be to do so.

People normally settle for the easy answer and the easy way out. It is a "duty" of "leadership" to keep them from doing so. But "duty" is to neocons what water is to fire -- extinguishing.

And I don't have any idea whether or not the guy is guilty. But I am not sure that this has much to do with being convicted. -- We're talking here of 12 more or less average members of our (debased) society. -- They're probably going with "their gut".

[w4rma]

23. They listen to the same BS big media that the rest of us do... (nt)

[LeftyMom]

24. No

I live here so my idea of what CA is like is shaped by more than what makes the national news. I saw all the fired up young people at my polling place (some too young to vote but making sure thier friends and family showed up,) I see fewer people test driving those stupid Hummers and other huge SUVs (the local dealerships like to show turning raduis in a parking lot up the street from me, so I see what people are buying) and more hybrids and other efficient cars, I see that the mall parking lot isn't as packed as in years past. The materialism around here in the late 90's was appaling and things seem to be improving on that front.

As far as the recall goes, we traded one ineffectual socially liberal corpratist for another. I don't care for either one, but I don't see the big issue. If you were going to worry about California you really ought to have done it during the Pete Wilson Prop 187 years. :shrug: