How would you describe God?

[elshiva]

How does being a liberal affect your image of God?

(This is to respond to protests about the last post about Judy Steinberg Dean being sexy as "trivial." Well God thinks everyone's sexy. But I think the Dr. Deans, the Johns, Kucinich, Isongas, Hillraiser, and Dukakis are sexy. Please don't hate me cos I'm crazy.)

[RPM]

1. as dead.

or at least missing in action.

[Neoma]

3. What s/he said ^

[drhilarius]

2. A social/ linguistic construct. n/t

[DenverDem]

4. I would describe Her as PISSED OFF.

She gives us free will and we completely fuck everything up by making the most short sighted, self consumed choices imaginable.

[anitar1]

18. Physically, Someone Who Remembles a Middle Easterner nt

[slutticus]

5. Bipolar

[chookie]

17. Actually, that is a fascinating response....

Most cosmologies do in fact require a kind of bi-polarism.

You may be on to something, my dear.

I just wish you would have elaborated a bit....

[slutticus]

24. LOL. Well, I meant the DSM-IV diagnosis of Bipolar I disorder...

I guess I could elaborate, but it's just soooooo late...

:P

[frankly_fedup2]

63. So you are a coder?

OR you work for an insurance company?

I use to be an MT myself, worked out of my home, but became disabled and can no longer work.

As for God, I lean to wards the kinda alien/human mixture. It even states in the Bible in Genesis that (not verbatim), the beings of the heavens came down to be with the women of earth.

Then, I believe it was Carl Sagan who explained the evolution of man like a calender of 31 days. He drew threw week one on the calender with a black marker, then week two, and week three, and all of week four of the month but the 30th and then the 31st. He stated that the first weeks and almost the last week was the amount of time the Earth has existed. He takes the 30th day and makes a diagonal line across it. The upper part of the square, he said that is when life started on this Earth, such as the little microorganisms and amphibians, and then dinosaurs, etc. He puts the dinosaurs in the lower half of the 30th day and splits the 31st day on the calender like the 30th with a diagonal line, corner to corner. He said the upper part of the 31st day on the calender was when the dinosaurs died due to major climate changes probably due to a meteor or some Earthly catastrophe. They know this to be true because some excavations have found animals frozen with what they had eaten not digested. Not just one or two but several in different places all over the world. Insects with their next meal still in their mouths as if time completely stopped. He then cuts that diagonal in half, then says on the other side the first man/woman started walking erect (I know, evolution and the monkeys, but there is evidence of these beings in the bones). Anyway, man slowly continues to evolve until the very little corner of the 31st day. Near the end of that day, SUDDENLY, man starts to show intelligence by designing tools, weapons, etc.

The reason he uses the calender, he said, is so we could see how much time intelligent man has been on this Earth compared to the Earth and the Universe. Our existence has been minuscule compared to the existence of everything else. The Dinosaurs, before they all died, had been here longer than man has existed on this Earth so far.

He stated it was confusing, even frustrating to understand how man/woman would so slowly evolve, like everything else did on this Earth, and then suddenly man/woman has a cognitive brain. He also said it could have been beings more intelligent than man interbreeding with them. Where did they come from? He said look at the vastness of our Universe alone. He said it could be a God, he doesn't know, he just understands the science of it, and finds the fact that man/woman suddenly was intelligent a miracle in itself. He said he could not see a being with a long white beard sitting on a throne, it was not a logical thought; however, intelligent man/woman came out of no where, and he could not explain why their evolution came about so quickly.

Well, I could sit and listen to Carl Sagan talk all day. I loved listening to that man. He was so intelligent but would come out of that scientist, anthropologist, genius mode and explain anything in common sense kind of terms.

Well, Mr. Sagan is dead. So I wonder if his theories and beliefs were right? I guess he knows now.

[tuvor]

6. May I be pedantic?

I have no idea how being liberal affects my image of God, since I don't think I've been anything BUT liberal.

[indigobusiness]

98. No.

You may not.

[illflem]

7. Doesn't have anything to do with being liberal

but I've always considered god as a fairy tale.

[Must_B_Free]

12. God is many gods

What you are referring to is god in literature and I would argue that we see many gods in the literature.

The God of the Old Testament is vengeful and jealous. After the time Christianity clashed philosophically with the Greeks, God was the idea of perfection.

So I am with you, I can't, as someone who can observe science, put stock in something with the characteristics of man (i.e. fairy tale), but I can go for the idea of God as what is incomprehensible to man - infinity, everything, etc.

[Clark2008]

201. So, you agree with me, in a sense

God was vengeful and jealous UNTIL He had a kid.

Then he understood what it means to love so deeply that you can't imagine life without this person who's so much a part of you - and he became less rigid and more forgiving and understanding.

Makes sense to me!

(BTW - most every other language has a pronoun reserved for God so that God is neither male nor female, including the Arabic. English, however, does not.)

[Must_B_Free]

8. Sum total of all matter and energy in the universe

that's my description, I don't go fo the anthropomorphic stuff. TO me God is only philosophically feasible as the universe itself

[Ron Green]

9. God is love.

[Selwynn]

140. What the fuck does that even mean?

What does "God is Love" mean? Is there this little ball of "love-stuff" floating around in space somewhere? What does it literaly mean to say that God *is* love? Does it have any literal meaning.

Does it have substance or is it just a knee-jerk quip that has been repeated so much it doesn't ever get questioned?

[Ron Green]

160. I don't think it's a little ball of "love-stuff" ... I think love is the

state of being which is being "with God," or part of "the One," or any number of other ways that spiritual traditions refer to the state of perfect awareness. Therefore, as I understand it, to really love is to be connected with God, and we do it primarily through other people. Since other people are the ones who give us problems and grief, we have to learn to see through the Fear (problems, struggle, etc.) and find Love, which is the true state of things.

In other words, fear is the natural state of man on earth, while love is the natural state of God (eternal man, heaven, the spirit world, or however one would call it). The challenge is to acknowledge the fear, face it with courage, and thereby allow God (Love) to exist within us, and even spread it around as we are able.

How does this sound to you?

[indigobusiness]

167. I think you're onto something.

It is the best description of the fundamental "urge".

[Ron Green]

172. I like to think about the Chakras, or energy centers, in thinking about

this. I probably don't understand the real Hindu nitty-gritty on this, but it seems to me that the most powerful forces, fear and love, emanate from the lowest and highest chakras, respectively. And the highest one the crown, is where we connect in love with all other humans, and that is the God self; while the lowest chakra is where we connect with others at the fear level (the irony is that in sex, or "love making," we are connected literally at the lowest part of the body and yet trying to find complete oneness with the other person, in a loving way.)

I think that our job here on earth is to deal with the fear, and also manage the other energy centers, including the solar plexus (the will), the heart, obviously, the voice, and the all-seeing eye. "But the greatest of these is Love." And it seems that at this highest level of being, which exists in the Hindu representation as floating above the head, we are all connected. God is love.

[indigobusiness]

173. Models and metaphors can help tremendously

in understanding deeper issues of "being".

Chakras, and Hindu teahing in general, help many in forming a meaningful personal perspective. You needn't be Hindu.

Who would argue with Vedic widom? Not me.

[Selwynn]

175. I think its more about saying what our relationship with god is like...

..not making an ontological statement about what God "is."

The God is love language I think is most appropriately understood in the manner of saying, "we can understand something important about what it is like to encounter or "know" god by taking what we know and understand of love, applying it to that experience and saying, this is what knowing God *is like.*

To me this sounds similar or congruent in some way with what you're suggesting.

[Ron Green]

179. Yeah, it's too bad that in English one word has to encompass

all kinds of love: erotic, familial, spiritual, etc. 'Cause God as love certainly is a long way from the kind of love as in "I love my truck."

[spooked]

180. Sounds pretty awesome Ron_Green

As Joseph Campbell said, heaven and hell are not locations but states of being, and hell is the absence of love...

The worse thing we can tell someone is to "Go to hell" for that is really wishing them a life devoid of Love.

[Ron Green]

183. And what that means, if it's true (which I think it is), is that all the

folks on this thread who are saying, "dead" or "fairy tale" or "irrelevant" are trying to consign themselves to an absence of love.

[spooked]

185. or they do not think of love as the creative force we know as

God,-- a power higher than ourselves. We are not the be-all, end-all.

[T Bone]

10. Since he created man in his own image

God is some bi-sexual, transsexual, rainbow colored being of a thing. I guess.

[President Jesus]

11. nice smell, perfect teeth...a class act all the way.

anyone know what that's from???

[Behind the Aegis]

92. Homer Simpson?

I think Homer said that when he created his own religion and observed the Feast of Maximum Occupancy!

[LiberalVoice]

13. Imaginary.

The sooner people realize it the better.

[buddysmellgood]

14. I'm 6-foot, sandy blond hair with beard, about 190 pounds. Sort of a

big scandanavian oaf.

[chookie]

15. When asked...

...a few years ago by some straight guy (I mean straight in the sense of being mainstream -- I definitely am heterodox and he must have known this however bewitched by my charms) -- "Do you believe in God?"

I replied -- spontaneously -- "Which one?"

Of course I told the girls at work this story -- the guy was a newly hired director -- and we all howled. They said a better response would have been something like, "Hmm, I worship trees, Thor, and Ahura Mazda."

[SemperEadem]

16. as a personal expression and impression for each person

not to be defined by anything or anyone other than that person.

[sonicx]

19. God's a clockmaker

I don't think he has any effect on what happens here.

[eternalburn]

20. If I believed in a form of god.....

...it would probably be a visual of a scientist in a lab coat inspecting a petrie dish marked Earth, among many, many others.

[HEyHEY]

21. No god

[elshiva]

26. Thanks for all answers so far, keep posting

I started this thread cos I see myself as a very religious person and very liberal. I find it sad that fundies are the face of Christianity, Islam, Judaism.
I DO NOT think "atheist" should be used as a swear word. I am supportive of all productive value systems with or without Gods. It's sad when people tell me "I don't believe in God, but I am still a good father..." It's proof of the religious bigotry that atheists are subjected to.
As for my perception of God... Neither Male or Female, yet both Male and Female subsisting in all matter, enabling creation to care for itself.

[frankly_fedup2]

71. I have always had the belief that if we . . .

delve into our very existence too deeply, we would drive ourselves insane, because we will never know the answer to the questions . . . Why are we here? What is the meaning of life?

So why bother trying, when we know there is no answer available to us?

[neebob]

22. Being a liberal does not affect my image of God

I don't have one, except that he/she/it does not exist and is the invention of people. What does this have to do with Judy Dean again?

[Maat]

23. God is an energy that is within us all..

is all around us, and is a power that we can all access through meditation/prayer/visualization.

[chefgirl]

161. Pretty much how I see it too

God is the collective, divine spark that we all share. Our mutual humanity. It has been called universe, energy, spirit and many other things.

I believe that there are those who subtract from the fabric of 'God' (like George Bush, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot etc...)
There are those who contribute to the fabric (like Jesus, Ghandi, MLK, Dalai Lama etc...)

Together, we create 'God' simply by being. It is within our free will to create that construct any way we choose.

It's my belief that what is going on in the world today is evidence of subtraction from this delicate balance on a massive scale.

Its up to all of us to contribute, to the best of our ability, every waking moment.
Liberals, by definition, live their lives trying to do just that, so my image of 'God' influences my politics, not the other way around.

-chef-

[elshiva]

30. This is an apology for the somewhat shallow post on Judy Dean

It does not seem to be helping. Listen Everyone I am extremely clinically depressed and I have a low tolerance of being made fun of. Please say something cheery please. I'm lonely here.

[SmokingJacket]

85. God is a force.

Like gravity, only more like light. God is the organizing principle.

I don't know why God tolerates so much intense human suffering, though. I think for that reason I don't much like God.

[indigobusiness]

159. God is force, God is farce...

God kicks us in the arse.

[MajorFlaw]

25. An underachiever. n/t

[indigobusiness]

154. High potential low achiever...

a lot of that going around.

[LeftyMom]

27. with plurals

i'm not a monotheist.

[sam sarrha]

28. You come across like being a liberal..which is believing in that the

Democratic process is the best way to initiate change, and that it is the people that are the most important important aspect of a democracy..

i feel like i am being asked a question that is going to be used to determine what sort of mental illness drove me to be a Liberal.

God has nothing to do with it.

god is part of religion. it has nothing to do with anything but one personal practice.. the fundamentalists try to legislate what they see as a moral Problem to control other people who do not practice your religion. LEAVE ME OUT OF IT.

for instance, stem cell research can relieve much suffering in many people. if you disagree with any aspect of it.. then when you are dieing and writhing in pain or your children are wailing in pain.. just dont use that technology to help them. GO YOUR OWN WAY ..and leave me out of it, i quite happily leave you out of my life, return the favor

please practice you own religion, I have my own, which is based on living a life of compassion and service to other to those who suffer in this world. i dont just practice on Sunday it is a dedicated life of practice and sacrifice. i do not see things in terms of "You are for us or against us", i have no mandate to dominate and limit anyone.

The church wants to preach their religion in our schools, they dont see that that is inviting the Moslem's, Wicka's, Celts,Hindu's, Janists, Jews, Buddhists, New Agers, UFO Nuts, and the Satanists to do the same.. in this country it is all or nothing..if you have the right to preach in the schools they all do also, and "nothing"...NO RELIGION is better than all that stuff, that will eventually end up in civil war. Religon should stay in the home, you'd be pissed off if i taught your kids my religion,..LEAVE MY CHILDREN ALONE...their religion is taught in the HOME.

learn to live you own life.. that is more than enough to do for any of us.

[elshiva]

31. I apologize, I'm the one who is mentally ill

I DO NOT WANT TO LEGISLATE ANY RELIGION OR BELIEF. Just because I start a conversation on a blog about God doesn't mean I want to indoctrinate your children. I'm half-Jewish and am freaked when fundies want to convert my Jewish Dad. This is just a conversation about God by an anxious insomniac not trying force anyone to do anything.

[DARE to HOPE]

73. Dear child, read the book of Jonah to find out what God is like...

it is my favorite book out of the Hebrew scriptures, what we Christians call the "Old" Testament.

The end of the book of Jonah, Jonah finally went to Nineveh (uh, in Iraq BTW) and told the people God would destroy them if they did not repent. Well, they DID repent, so God did NOT destroy them, so boy, did Jonah get MAD at God! He sat and sulked under a little bush.

So here comes God, sort of chuckling, in a compassionate, pleading voice to Jonah, whose little tree has dried up. "You care so much about that little tree, which you had nothing to do with creating. Yet you are miffed at Me for relenting--should I not care deeply about these people, who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?!!"


What a gentle, sweet picture of the powerful God I love. I believe that He loves us all so UTTERLY, so COMPLETELY, just as we were made, and tries EVERYTHING to come to us, and share life with us. Jesus was sent, in my faith, to show us exactly what God is like, to share life WITH us ("O Come, O Come, Emmanuel" is our Advent prayer "God WITH US."


I have been a "liberal" along with my Lutheran clergyman husband (I am the musician, he is the one with the PhD in Hebrew studies) as a function of my Christian faith. Luther centered our understanding of the Bible as the "cradle of Christ," that is, it shows God's ultimate Love throughout. The balance between Law and Gospel is a central tension of the Lutheran's explanation of the Christian faith.


The fundies are looking for Love, too, but too often get swamped by all the Judgement and Law. Luther's big discovery in St Paul's letter to the Roman church (St Paul was a Jewish pharisee by training BTW) was that ALL have "fallen short of the glory of God," that we are only able to approach God due to grace FROM HIM, grace that He gives. We do not judge one another, but exhort one another to live a life of faith, based on Christ's Sermon on the Mount and His other teachings.


If more people did that, perhaps you would find reason not to be so depressed or anxious. :-)

My God is a dancing, laughing, joyous, powerful God. Who Loves us, every one!


P.S. Coconut milk made into cocoa at night also helps lift depression, and with sleep.


God bless.

[Selwynn]

144. That's the most outrageous thing I've ever heard.

"What a sweet gently picture of God" - right. This is the god that was just previously ready to annihilate every man woman and child in Nineveh because he didnt like what they were doing. "I don't agree with your actions, so I am going to murder you, your loved ones, your children and every living thing unless you do what I want."

Well, number one - that's not repentance, that's forced attrition: when you regret your "sins" but not because you love God. Second, that's not the love of God - that's the tyranny of God. Love doesn't threaten the beloved with murder if the beloved doesn't do what the lover wants. We lock people like that away in prison.

You can't ignore the basis for this story by simply glossing it over and focusing on the fact that God didn't ultimately destroy them - only because they did what he wanted. There is no way to dismiss or ignore the theme of this story which is a God who says, do what I demand or I will kill you. Yes, that's a real "gentle" picture of God. Only in a world this fucked up could a religious person even get that out with any kind of seriousness.

Your God is a dancing, joyous God who just happens to act in scripture like the worst barbarians of the Nazi regime, demands genocide and murder and brings swift retribution to those who do not obey his every whim. No, that can't be right. I do believe that God can be described by pointing to love and saying, when we think about what love is like, we understand what God is like. However, that statement is incongruent with a literal interpretation of scripture that is unwilling to simply concede that a lot of the things that are written about God and a lot of the actions that are attributed to God are just plain wrong, and represent feeble stuttering stumbling humans trying to understand what they thought about God and not always getting it right.

I'm not willing to point to any story that starts with God threatening the people he supposedly loves with mass murder and act as though its some positive thing, no matter how it ends.

I am person of faith myself. I believe in God and I even believe in his loving nature. But I don't go back to old testament stories and try to dress them up as these beautiful things. I don't try to have it both ways. God can either be "powerful" defined as coercive, dominating power or he can be the power of love, which by very definition cannot dominate and cannot coercive, but is luring, persuasive, open, and compassionate in nature. He cannot be both.

Saying that "God is love" requires us to accept the rejection of certain portraits of God in the Old Testament as utterly incompatible with love nature. Love does not put a gun to the head of the beloved and say, "do what I want or I will pull this trigger and spatter your brains all over the wall." But that's the equivalent of how Old Testament writers frequently wrote about God. But they were wrong, they only dimly understood what God was really like. We need to simply say that instead of trying do all these interpretive gymnastics to sidestep the reality that the old testament really says a lot of shitty things about God that we have no business glorifying.

Sel

[indigobusiness]

156. Don't that beat all?

It seems to me that what Fundies are looking for is control. If they were looking for love, they would have found it.

[Clark2008]

203. OH! I like this post!!

My God smiles when I dance and frowns when I'm sad.

He was with me today when I fed ducks for no reason but that it made my son happy. He was with me today when I cussed the Bush fan who cut me off (and with my reflexes that kept me from being hit in the process).

Even my little boy knows that God is most happy when we're happy and St. Paul makes me sad.

I, for one, think the Dems ought to be on a mission to post the Beatitudes everywhere and see how the Fundies like them apples? God would laugh like Hell. ;)

[Just Me]

29. "God" is inconceivable,...and betrayed by those who USE "God",...

,...in order to empower their egos.

Those who are betraying "God" are dividing the world,...right now.

[ScrewyRabbit]

32. Tat tvam asi

I am that.

Reject the dualism entirely.

[Ron Green]

33. I think many people on this board have been so beat up and pissed off

by the RW fundies' vicious words and actions in the name of "God," that they simply want the idea of God to go away. This is understandable.

[LibertyorDeath]

34. Well supposedly we were all made in "his" image

Now take a good long hard unvarnished look at the results.

What do you see.

[VOX]

35. "God" has to get back to the gym. And pronto.

:bounce: :)

[indigobusiness]

162. "Image", translated from the original Greek reference, has different

connotations...far different.

It is closer to our concept of imagine.

Other than that, I agree with KrazyKat.

[donheld]

36. Who really knows?

Who's to say?

[Fire Bush]

37. A stalker

An invisible man who lives in the sky and is absolutely obsessed with the every day actions of every single human being on Earth.

I believe that pretty much sums up most of the major religions.

[orpupilofnature57]

38. Omnipotent,if god sent the sight how of the uptight right would see?

[lateo]

39. God is bigger than the bible.

If there is a god the bible does him an injustice.

[melv]

40. There's no way to know.

[Mike Niendorff]

41. "my invisible friend in the sky"

see also: Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny.


MDN

[PsychoDad]

42. Lessee... My concept.

It is One, Genderless, Eternal and Absolute, with no equal or opposite..

Existing outside of it's creation of space-time.

Sustaining the universe through it's total awareness of every particle within and of it.

It was never born, and has never had offspring.

Beyond the ability of any to truly comprehend and not compareable to anything we can imagine.

We can only know of it what it has revealed to us.

Has attempted to send to humanity the same message in all religions and spiritual traditions - That being : "I love you, now love each other, all humanity is a family".

Most merciful, most graceous with that mercy, the all living, the giver of life and the giver of death.

I see being "liberal" and tolerant of others as the same as my religion. All humanity is one family and we need to help each other. All creation is interconnected, and we need to protect what we have been given to sustain ourselves.

[aneerkoinos]

43. What Buddha said:

Ultimate reality is truly not this, not that, not both and not neither.

Cf. Heisenbergs uncertainty principle. ;)

[indigobusiness]

66. "Things are not as they seem...nor are they otherwise."

He also said that.

[indigobusiness]

44. God not Jesus...Everybody is describing Jesus...

Even Jesus made a clear distinction.

No wonder so many people think God is a crock.

Sheesh...you people...

BTW Being a liberal is inconsequential, in this matter.

God is the Logos, He said so. Describe that.

[aneerkoinos]

48. alethes alethes ego de lego hymin:

We see God('s) as(s) hole.

[indigobusiness]

65. I can always depend on you

to suss things out.

How the hell are ya?

[aneerkoinos]

79. Now very proud of my wittiness

and blaming you for that particular hell, so the hell is now twofold! ;)

[indigobusiness]

81. I love you.

I wish you were a girl.

[aneerkoinos]

90. Back at ya

And I know you're just a little girl, koritsaki mou... and I'm your Zorba...

(Recheck your handle and then try tell me you're not! ;))

[indigobusiness]

95. My handle has been rechecked.

And rechecked again. How do you think my business achieved its infamous hue?

I'll dance with you, Zorba, but that's it.

[indigobusiness]

82. God described...

in serious ways.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2766869

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2801236


edit--- oops...I put this in the wrong place. I'm going to repost below. Dadgummit!

[aneerkoinos]

94. Holy Fuck

God is Hieros Gamos.
And I'm just a wanker.

[indigobusiness]

96. Would you at least speak Greek?

You big wanker.

[aneerkoinos]

102. Ime poli malaka

Happier?

[indigobusiness]

103. Couldn't be happier, but if you meant : "I me poli malaka".

I'm sincerely sorry to hear it. My condolences.

[aneerkoinos]

108. Ime mua

And wondorously the posts returned, after a short visit to some alternate reality. But back to business at hand:

FYI 'Ime' is Finnish for 'suck', and 'mua' is also colloquial Finnish, pardon my French...

[aneerkoinos]

110. Pro-nunciations

Of course I should have written it eeh-meh for you re varvare, but then you would have just aspirated the aitch (HA!?) in the middle and kept on inspirating, and I don't know how much more this malakas can handle for one day, because 'ihme' is the Finnish for wonder...

[indigobusiness]

111. Ok, then...can the linguistic gymnastics.

I'm not about to pretend to speak Finnish.

[indigobusiness]

115. Are you going to translate that into English?

Or not?

[aneerkoinos]

107. I tried

But it seems God ate my words. This day is full of wonders.

Not the least of todays wonders was the revelation of Soviet Zen, in return now especially GooGled for you by the Poli Malaka himself,
in English,
just for you,
you big malakismeni you:

http://lib.ru/HARMS/xarms_engl.txt

You deserve it. All of it. And So Much More Abuse.

[indigobusiness]

112. What intellectual can of worms did you crawl out of?

And why are you so ornery and mean to me, all of the sudden?

----

Ryvin stood up and went out of the room on tiptoe.
Kaltayev followed him with his eyes.
When the door had closed behind Ryvin, Shuyev said: -- So. The rebel
has departed. To the devil with the rebel!
Everyone looked at each other in surprise, and Rastopyakin raised his
head and fixed his gaze on Shuyev.
Shuyev said sternly: -- He who rebels is a scoundrel!
Suchkov cautiously, under the table, shrugged his shoulders.
-- I am in favour of the drinking of vinegar -- Makaronov said quietly
and looked expectantly at Shuyev.
Rastopyakin hiccupped and, with embarrassment, blushed like a maiden.
-- Death to the rebels! -- shouted Suchkov, baring his blackish teeth.

[aneerkoinos]

119. All of a sudden

I don't know, I'm allways pushing the limits, never breaking them. Perhaps I'm trying to be ornery to your ego, trying it out, like making faces to a mirror to see how it responds, without trying to be generally mean; or perhaps I'm just vindictive egotist bastard. Or the forest echoing a shout. You tell me.

Perhaps I can't speak Nanny-American or any normal language, but only few variations of profoundly abusive, most impolite languages. Am I lonely? Who would solace me and for what purpose? And why and how do you know Greek?

But I hope you liked Kharms and had a belly-full. I will now go roll on the floor, sofa or bed, nighty night.

[indigobusiness]

123. I stand corrected. I always say that wrong, and realized I had this time.

But, I figured WTF?

I'm from Texas, when I stray outside of the Lone Star subcontinent
everyone tells me I might as well be speaking Greek. So, I figured, once again, WTF?

It's ALL Greek to me.

Sounds to me like you know yourself rather well. I envy you.

Nighty night.

--

p.s. My ego was put to death for its greekish nature, years ago.

[aneerkoinos]

135. Experiment

If you haven't tried this before, let's see what happens. I will tell which answer I got after you've reported. Here comes:

Ask yourself: What will be my next thought?

[indigobusiness]

138. When?

Starting now?

edit- I asked myself the question. Hope I'm doing this right?

[aneerkoinos]

145. Whenever

I'm really only interested hearing what answer you get to that question when you concentrate on it. If you tried and didn't get answer or forgot it, perhaps you could try again - multiple tries allowed. If you tell me what was your next thought after asking the question, I will tell you what was mine.

[indigobusiness]

146. Ok...That is profound.

I thought I was supposed to ask myself what would be YOUR next thought. Ok, I get it. What I discovered was a profound focus, a way of clearing the mind of all else. My next thought was...

"THANK YOU".

[aneerkoinos]

151. OK

When I tried, my next thought was:

"What was my previous thought?".

[indigobusiness]

153. Ahhh...that shows you are the sensible one.

And illustrates the difference in our ways of thinking.

öáíôáóôåßôå

[aneerkoinos]

187. How are we different?

What both experiments showed, in a very tangible way I'd say, is that all the conditions of the next thought are in the previous thought(s). There is no real difference in the WAY we think, but the complex condition-chains between our thoughts are unique. And what "is" between two thoughts? It is not this, not that, not both, not neither, it cannot be said, only...

[indigobusiness]

188. We are different...

in that you are searching for a better answer, while I am searching for a better question.

But, as usual, you are right.

[aneerkoinos]

189. Truly so

I was the one making question.
And your answer was perfect.

Thank you, Guru.

[indigobusiness]

193. Guru?

I thought I was your disciple?

[indigobusiness]

152. BTW... You can never be sure of limits...

UNTIL you break them.

Try it sometime.

Often, limits have a plastic quality. By following my suggestion, you just might contribute in their expansion.

öáíôáóôåßôå

[indigobusiness]

194. William Tiller----(streaming interview) plus a Heisenberg quote

http://real.playstream.com:8080/ramgen/futuretalk/ft1127376.rm

---

"The existing scientific concepts cover always only a very limited part of reality, and the other part that has not yet been understood is infinite. Whenever we proceed from the known into the unknown we may hope to understand, but we may have to learn at the same time a new meaning of the word 'understanding'."

-Werner Heisenberg

[indigobusiness]

196. Jacob Needleman-etal... streaming interviews

Jacob Needleman-
A Sense of the Cosmos: Scientific Knowledge and Spiritual Truth

http://real.playstream.com:8080/ramgen/futuretalk/ft0911370.rm

Gerald Epstein, MD-
Healing Into Immortality: A New Spiritual Medicine of Healing

http://real.playstream.com:8080/ramgen/futuretalk/ft0807365.rm

Andrew Weiss-
Beginning Mindfulness: Learning the Way of Awareness
Hugh Prather-
Standing On My Head-
Life Lessons in Contradictions

http://real.playstream.com:8080/ramgen/futuretalk/ft0814366.rm

Joseph Chilton Pearce-
Spiritual Initiation and the Breakthrough of Consciousness- The Bond of Power

http://real.playstream.com:8080/ramgen/futuretalk/ft0828368.rm

http://www.futuretalk.org/

[RetroLounge]

45. Myth

or bullshit if you'ld rather...

RL

[SheepyMcSheepster]

46. i would describe god as "everything"

i am not religious.

the only truth i know is that we are all a part of this big something, we are here "in it" and experiencing "it".

"it" would be god, something we do not understand.

not necessarily a sentient all knowing type thing, but simply all this stuff that is in motion, all this stuff that is "inside" the universe.

it's early and this stuff just fell out of my head.

"god" is a loaded term, people automatically assume alot of things when you say "god".

[canuckagainstBush]

47. Non-existant. n/t

[pfitz59]

54. Yup!....

A creation of frightened barbarians.

[Maat]

49. Take heart, and thanks for the topic.

Some people are sensitive about it. I love the topic. I'm secure in my faith.

And comfort and blessings to you! We support you here. Don't worry about those with nasty sentiments.

[arwalden]

50. Imaginary

[Chicago Democrat]

51. Not Athropomorphic... Not a person...

The Tao is God.

[VioletLake]

52. God is the Universe's gestalt.

I hope that settles it once and for all. ;)

[Disturbed]

57. A Wish.

All the Universe and everything in it is God. To appply human characteristics to this is wishful longing of comfort.
To kill others and or torture them to accept a human concept of the correct belief is a crime against humans.

[BiggJawn]

53. I'm not gonna tell ya.

Read Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World"...

[frankly_fedup2]

68. Or to delve deeper read the history of . . . .

"Occam's Razor"

[vixengrl]

55. The image of god is a black Madonna in Somalia

her breasts lean and empty as a virgin's; her child, a spirit. The image of god is a child in a factory alongside generations of her family. The image of god is the upturned face lit by incoming fire in the instant it is too late. God schleps it in pickup trucks and on public trans. God collects money for breakfast in a styrofoam cup. God ladles out soup on a cold, sunless day. And that's only part of the time.

[Steely_Dan]

155. Wow - I think I'm in Love

[Solon]

56. Which One? n/t

[Selatius]

58. The absentee landlord

He sparked the universe billions of years ago and simply watches his creation work like a mechanic watches a car engine turn. Science is the study of the machine he built and its processes. Through studying the universe you will at least come closer to understanding Him.

No, I'm not a whackjob creationist. I believe in using science and reason to learn how the world works. God didn't give the ability to reason so we could toss it out the window. I don't take the bible literally but allegorically.

What we do with ourselves is our own free will. We make peace, and we make war. We love, and we hate. All of human drama is our own doing. We are the answer to the problems we create.

[Clark2008]

205. This is somewhat true

Jesus even re-iterated the Free Will Doctrine - but few people are taught this in Bible School.

[samplegirl]

59. I'll let you know when he appears on my grill cheese sandwich

and makes me rich

[BeFree]

60. Generation, Organization, Destruction

[AnIndependentTexan]

61. God is laughing somewhere about all of this

[The Straight Story]

62. Physical and fuller description:

A spirit akin to light itself - to us humans god may well be all over at the same time, like sunshine; and where god is not there is darkness. But even in said darkness one can find a sliver of some light somewhere so in this sense god is everywhere even if we do not see.

This plays into not only the well known scriptures but into such things as 'light bulbs' when we have ideals being used in cartoons. Even ancient mythologies have an intergrative sense of a relationship of god and light and some in more modern times have compared god to light in a physics sense (ie traveling at the speed of light, not aging, time for god moves different in frame of reference to us, et al and so on).

In some ways as well this plays into the 'illuminated' works of mankind - the writing of the holy works were done in a time when light was cruical to such writing (not that it isn't now, but they didn't exactly have electricity) - light being non-artifical and as such a deeper psychological bond was developed with it.

The human side of god is an extension of our senses and desire to have god in a more graspable form which we can relate to and grab a hold of - this goes to 'idols' in the OT - many groups had something they could see and was always there, something they could touch. To the hebrews this was wrong because god was like the wind/light/et al in form and attempts to cast god into a non-movable object was wrong (all generically speaking of course). One did not pray to such things - but even the hebrews were becoming attached to such things via the ark and the temple (both later destroyed or vanished).

God understood their need for things from a human aspect (like how they wanted a king to be like other nations of the time) and from such was born the aformentioned ark/temple/et al but it also parlayed into the concept of god taking on a human form later and/or speaking through humans selected for whatever reason (which some have speculated was due to something physical in the mind that allowed them to tune into stations so to speak).

While god was/is seen as the giver of life and all powerful god was also seen as limited to an extent (which was one thing often meditated on - ie could god make a rock so big that he could not lift it, could god contradict himself and not punish man as he had lucifer - the answer was no but god had a way around this, etc and so on). God became the parent and we the freewill children. The wisdom given us was a guideline for the times and akin some say to telling your kids not to run out in the street without looking (as an example). Some kids do it ok, some will run out and get hit and then blame the parent for not saving them when it was really their fault for doing it after they were warned.

Jesus was a melding of the old ideas and ways and the new ones while bringing to mankind an image of god that they could relate to. His mission was broader of course, but it did close the gap while retaining the imagery of light (often used in relation to Jesus). Instead of an immovable idol or golden calf man now had a living breathing representation with whom they could interface. God was still the spirit/light but also had a new face we could use to channel our emotions through and anchor to, one which was like us but different.

At any rate, I am rambling so I will quit typing before I turn this into a novel to discuss. Just some ideas - not all binding and encompassing and no one's but my own from my own studies into many faiths over the last two decades as a hobby and search for understanding (from the indians and how they represented god(s) to the tibetan monks, there is a lot of wonderful and fascinating things to look back into to see how mankind has handled their view of the supernatural world).

[ilovenicepeople]

64. I Don't Know????????

realy I don't, but I guess God is Good, whatever that may be?:hi:

[jesusq]

67. God is not white

Jesus was not white. Films portray him with light hair and blue eyes, perhaps to symbolize the innocence of a child, but he was certainly not white, He was selfless and obsessed with uplifting the poor. His greatest enemy was the religious standard bearers of his day. It is interesting that Jesus foretold that the most religious people facing judgment, those most certain of their righteousness would be rejected. "I never knew you, go away you evildoer."

[Starlight]

69. I see more of a "Mother Nature" "Great Spirit" type essence.

I see no conflict between science & creationism. It's all the same. Science is just a set of theories explaining the procedure nature/our creator used to construct & continuously modify our environment. :)

[Cobalt Violet]

70. non-existant.

[karlrschneider]

72. God, Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah...or the other 996 names are all

inventions of humans (and possibly other animals) for an alternative to eternal death, the end of the universe and the inescapable conclusion that nothing really matters. "Whistling past the graveyard" is a fairly reasonable equivalent. Google "Deteriorata" for the ultimate truth.
:eyes:

[kodi]

74. that which center is everywhere and circumference nowhere.

.

[skjpm]

75. Jesus is God

I think that Jesus is God's full self-expression of Himself, and that we learn about God by being in relationship with Jesus. It is from that relationship that I find all my liberal values.

[flaminbats]

76. unChristian, never baptized or accepted Jesus as his savior..

I believe in many Gods..the God of reality, the God of possibility, the God of time, the God of nothing, the God of protons, the God of neutrons, the God of electrons, the God of anti-protons, the God of anti-neutrons, the God of anti-electrons, the God of gravity, the God of anti-gravity, the God of anti-time, the God of undefined numbers, the God of definable numbers, the God of zeros, the God of infinity, the God of actions and reactions, the God of chaos, the God of anti-photons, the God of magnetic fields, the God of anti-magnetism, and the God of photons.

[AgadorSparticus]

77. It is BECAUSE of my notion of God that I became a liberal.

Certainly not the other way around.

[IndyPriest]

86. Spot on, Agador n/t

[really annoyed]

78. The Unknown

That would make me agnostic...

But secretly, I hope there is a God, and he will smite all my enemies. :evilgrin:

[ChloeForKerry]

80. A myth

[indigobusiness]

83. God described...

in serious ways.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2766869

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2801236

[indigobusiness]

84. God is a concept that is difficult to reconcile

by people that devote their lives to doing so.

A meaningful understanding of it can hardly be expected from the disinterested.

[Walt Starr]

87. He's got goat feet, horns, and an absolutely HUGE ERECT

PENIS

[indigobusiness]

97. And an ego the size of

Walt Starr's.

[Walt Starr]

113. Are you trying to say my vision of the God is invalid?

:wtf:

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

116. Thanks for the personal attacks

Interesting.

[indigobusiness]

118. When you make erect penis jokes about God.

Don't get your panties in a twist when someone comes at you.

[Walt Starr]

120. It was NO JOKE!

Read about the Wiccan faith.

Cernunnos:

[indigobusiness]

121. Neither was mine.

edit- And that is hardly "HUGE"...in my universe, anyway.

[Walt Starr]

122. Then you admit to personal attacks

or you are saying my religous beliefs are invalid.

Which is it?

[indigobusiness]

125. I would never attack you personally...nor attack your religious beliefs.

I was merely fishing for a sense of humor.

[Walt Starr]

129. Ahhhh, it's there

A /sarcasm or similar tag would have helped!

:D

[indigobusiness]

130. Not much can help me...

at this point.

[Walt Starr]

131. Nah, humor is probably the most difficult thing to express

in this medium. That's all.

;)

[Bleacher Creature]

88. A crutch

[Fleshdancer]

89. man made. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

91. My view

I think trying to describe G-d with physical attributes is the same as trying to describe "justice" with physical features. Man was not created in His image, but the other way around.

[passy]

93. A nice idea, that would surely make my life easier if I believed in it.

[Cheswick2.0]

99. Everything........... impossible to discribe

because our little pea brains don't have the capability to understand even a 10th of what God really is.

[rinsd]

100. "Perfect teeth. Nice smell. A class act, all the way." (nt)

[donheld]

101. Like i'd describe the color blue to a blind person

[indigobusiness]

105. That's not a bad answer.

Nice one!

[Kathryn7]

104. Perfect Love

[Siyahamba]

106. I totally agree

It's very sad that some people who claim to speak for God turn others away from Him by promoting hate.

[maumcc1]

109. Here's how I view God

I think God is within ourselves. It depends on how we use this energy or whatever it is that determines our own holiness. I believe you can be in very difficult situations and if you listen to your inner self, that's God talking to you. I always try to be quiet and listen whenever I'm upset about something or trying to resolve a problem. It always works.

As far as describing God at this point in time, I think he's pretty pissed off. Hence, my bad mood most of the time anymore. :)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

117. inconsistent

[FizzFuzz]

124. as a Law, an energy, a vibration. impersonal and personal.

[Cleita]

126. Planet Earth is the only divinity that is real to me.

The planet gave me life, sustains me and will eventually kill me when my time is up. I think if anyone wanted a real religion, they should start looking upon Mother Earth as their divine mother. It's a two way street though, we must look after her as much as she looks after us. We must also acknowledge that all her children from the tiniest ant up to us are important to her and we should respect them and love thems as she does. All this Heaven and Hell business is nothing more than a chimera. Our real divinity is the one we walk on.

[shrike]

142. Ever heard of the Gaia theory?

A scientist (forget his name, darnit) hypothesized that the earth itself is a living organism.

[Cleita]

148. Yes, although I don't like calling Earth, Gaia.

She was a Greek goddess, anthromorphized into a human being. The earth is truly our god or goddess though because if s/he dies we die with it. I think there is a spirit or life force from the earth that keeps the ball rolling if you know what I mean. It is part chaos and chance, but I believe their is an intelligence at play in here too. (Not Intelligent Design mind you.)

The touble with most religions is that they try to turn the divine principle into a human one, which is understandable, because we are a narcissistic species, but I'm sure any self-respecting god out there wouldn't really care for the comparison. We humans are just an insignificant part of the whole of creation.

[indigobusiness]

147. If so...

then planet Earth must exist within a universal field of divinity. The concept would make no sense as an island.

[Cleita]

150. Could be.

There could be many earths out in the universe, each one with a creation to breathe life into. We are so stuck in the one God principle that we can't seem to imagine that the ultimate universal field of divinity would delegate responsibilities to subordinates.

The fact is that our planet is the one that is palpable to us and the visible one, so she is the one we must honor, respect and take care of. You notice I didn't say anything about worship and praying. You don't worship and pray to your mother and father. I think this is what the planet wants from us, respect, and to look after her now that we have grown up.

[indigobusiness]

164. Subordinates are unnecessary

if it is truly holographic.

[Cleita]

165. I don't think it's holographic.

I guess this is where we part in what we think.

[indigobusiness]

166. It appears to be, given the evidence.

Fractal nature is undeniable.

"As above, so below."

And vice versa.

[Cleita]

168. Too much for my little brain to process.

So until the fat lady burps, I prefer to keep my feet on the ground I feel underneath me.

[morgan2]

127. santa claus for adults

[JanMichael]

128. How about this...If, IF, there's a "god" I wouldn't have a CLUE.

And I doubt you or anyone else would either. As soon as y'all start giving human attributes, premises, to a "god" you've pretty much lost it.

I wouldn't expect my brain to be able to give a valid description of something which is so far beyond my comprehension.

It'd be "Michael's Idea of God" not a "god", "God" or "gods".

Nothing more nothing less. But since it's based on nothing it's nothing none the less.

On edit: I'm simply not so arrogant to go around making claims as to what a "real god" might be like, or think, or do, or say, or expect us to do.

[indigobusiness]

133. God exists...We don't.

But then, we're not really trying.

[Shadowen]

132. IF he exists...

"Mad scientist with a heart of gold."

[mvd]

134. I see God as a force

Both masculinility and femininity in one. And not bound by form.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

136. pure energy (Spirit) ..the Source.....the OT Biblical God is inconsistant

cruel and unfair...i tell him this almost daily

and he respects my honesty

[FDRLincoln]

137. God and You

I am not 100% certain there is a God. I suspect there is, but I cannot prove it beyond a doubt.

But what I do know without a doubt is this:

What you think about God is far more of a reflection about what is in your own soul and your own heart than it is about any truth about God Himself. God, if He does exist, is far, far more than you or I or anyone else can understand.

What you think about God is more a reflection of your own soul and personality than anything else.

[Selwynn]

139. Not as a being alongside other beings - but as Being-itself

and the source and ground of all being.

God simply is.

[FDRLincoln]

143. agree

Yes, the "ground of all Being"....that fits with my own beliefs and interpretations. But it is hard to explain to others....it is something that is more of an experience than an intellectual construct.

[indigobusiness]

178. Seems to me

more of something experiencing itself.

[indigobusiness]

176. Best way to put it.

Interesting how much better it is in three words, rather than the unmodified two.

[shrike]

141. Ultimately unknowable

How could puny creatures such as ourselves comprehend an eternal being? Religion(s) are man's attempt to understand him/her/it.

[Bridget Burke]

149. God looks like this, Dahling....

[indigobusiness]

181. "How'd you do what you did."

-Marianne Faithfull

[Squatch]

157. Happy go lucky?

[ProfessorGAC]

158. Whatever It Is, It Doesn't Match The Perception . . .

. . .of the rabid religious folks. It's NOT a bearded elderly gentleman dressed in white! I won't go into my existential perceptions of this (too long, too pedantic, ergo boring), and i don't claim to be certain of any of this stuff, but i am quite sure that THEY have it wrong.
The Professor

[RollergirlVT]

163. she

[ThorsHammer]

169. Pissed off (yes, not just merely upset) at the violence done in 'his name

IMO, God's values are pretty liberal. Forgiving sins, caring for the weakest among us, love thy neighbor, etc. He has to be aghast at the violence being done in his name, whether Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or any other. I think religion is a good thing and can be a great source of good, but extremism is what we have to avoid.

[Zenaholic]

170. Ever experience the Grateful Dead in the Mid-Eighties?? (nt)

[billyskank]

171. As a cowherd boy

[BlueRogue447]

174. Everything

I believe that everything is God (everything in life & death) aka alpha and omega. God is energy, the energy of the universe and life itself.

[NoPasaran]

177. A cosmic muffin

[Old Mouse]

182. the early papal conventions

understood a finite mind cannot comprehend the true nature of what is infinite. Terms were used to stop anyone from attempting to claim knowledge of what cannot be known as that could only lead to an egocentric use of the church to subjugate the masses.

The source seeks form.

[indigobusiness]

184. God looks exactly like Gravity

Liberally speaking.

[sarcasmo]

186. A killer of innocent IRAQ civilians

When Chimpy spoke to God and God told him to invade Iraq, all of these deaths for oil/Haliburton are on his hands.

[Deja Q]

190. I wouldn't dare. I haven't met God and, besides,

too many others have dared to do so. The writers of the Bible, Qu'ran, the Greek religion ("myth") that the Romans happily copied, and numerous other texts - all of which have some similarities (being good to people, being cruel to unbelievers, the idea that God is of benevolent or, in other cases, spiteful - and being said to have both in the same texts!)

[Flammable Materials]

191. GOD'S NOT DEAD:

He's pining for the fjords.

[HereSince1628]

192. God isn't dead, she went AWOL after tiring of her playthings.

Take it from one who knows.

Sincerely,
Job

[iconoclastic cat]

195. Horribly insecure and narcissistic.

:evilgrin:

[progressoid]

197. God is a sock

[indigobusiness]

199. Well...I guess that clinches it.

Who knew?

[Citizen Kang]

198. I would describe God

Not as a person or a singular, supreme being. Not as a male or female. But, as an engery and a force that surrounds us. I do not believe in an active God who does things out of spite or kindness, but as a glue that holds us together.

Anyone else?

[Bouncy Ball]

200. God is...

loving.

I once heard someone say that whatever your idea of God is reflects what is in you. I was happy to hear that, since I think of my Higher Power as loving, listening to me. Beyond my understanding.

[mmonk]

202. On vacation

[hangloose]

204. Invisible and intangible

[Old Mouse]

206. a singularity

A single point infinitely small. Not matter, not energy. Both.
Outside of our kinetic prison of time. Everywhere at once, fast and still, with no movement. A tapestry of light filling all space with all movement, collision and decision that ever was or will be. Totaling all for the solace of form.

"To be the eyes and ears and conscience of the creator of the Universe, you fool."

[indigobusiness]

210. A totality, as well.

Yes.

[Griffy]

207. The unseen embodiment of all we dont know...

like the gods of old when lightning was a mystery, to heaven and hell and the mystery of death... I think it is, using the best word I can, in modern language, energy. And all religions are right.. if you boil them down.

[sans qualia]

208. God is the set of all logically possible things

And since I accept the Medieval notion of plenitude (i.e. that all logically possible things exist), it is for me a logically necessary conclusion that God exists.

[lgardengate]

209. My decription would not be a "Liberal" one

I see God as Holy and Just and Good.The Bible says that God alone is Good and i agree.I also see him as loving and forgiving towards those who want/accept his love/forgiveness.

[benburch]

211. There never was and never will be a God.

The universe does not require it.

God is like the Unicorn; Both are real ideas with an amazing back story about things that nevertheless do not exist.