The Christian Right is a Monster that we have let grow out of control

[ck4829]

It must be stopped.

The Christian Right serves no benign purpose for America. I am willing to bet that if you go to a search engine and type "Bible Belt" (Where the Christian Right is most powerful) and "X" (X meaning crime, divorce, pollution, etc.) you will find that the Christian Right is hurting America.

The Christian Right must be contained, we must make the Wall of Separation between Church and State very high. We have a resonsibility to America, Christians, and people everywhere and of every Faith to bring the Christian Right down and out of power.

[Meme]

1. how you gonna stop them?

they´re like .. completely brainwashed. Don´t think they can be stopped..

[gingergreen]

2. Hitler was stopped

why not Bush?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

4. well, whenever the EU gets ready to invade

then i guess he can be stopped. or maybe there will be a revolt...i highly doubt either...

theProdigal

[Meme]

8. I´m not sure the EU will ever invade

part of the EU hates Bush, a part is just blind.. not taking a side at all, and a part is just dying to kiss the bastards ass whenever they can.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. i am fairly confident it will not happen in our lifetime

the EU simply doesn't have the capabilty to get here and the people of this country are too busy buying plasma TV's and KitchenAide mixers to do anything...Bush will not be stopped in this term...

theProdigal

[gingergreen]

13. I think Venezuela, Cuba...

and the rest of South America will invade before the EU.

Or at least sanction a defense movement.

[Meme]

15. I think the EU could stop him

but the problem is the EU is as divided as the USA is. Half of them thinking bush is a killer, half of them thinking bush isn´t a killer. Nothing will happen if they don´t agree first. I don´t think Bush will be stopped either :(

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. the problem is that getting an army here would be VERY difficult

with our sea and air power. Also, once they arrived, trying to conquer this country would be a near impossibilty due to it's vastness...hell our troops cannot even quell the unrest in a single city in Iraq and most of the people here would see an invasion not as a helping hand but as just that: an invasion.

As for the Venezuelans and the Cubans as mentioned in previous post...less likely than the EU. They could mount an attack but it would be devestating to those countries...

theProdigal

[gingergreen]

25. I don't necessarily mean an attack...

but a movement in the other direction. Where it would be even more polarized between the US and the rest of the world... and the US could no longer remain a dominant super power.

I think it may be time for us to step down from the #1 spot, BEFORE we are forced to.

[leesa]

33. Such simplistic thinking. The rest of the world can stop us in a heartbeat

We are the largest debtor nation in the world. We have 7 trillion in real debt and a third of that debt is owed to foreign countries. They can crash our economy in an instant.

Foolish Americans think their big war toys will save them. How you gonna fly those killer jets without fuel?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

39. and to compound the simplicity....

how will your economies react to your scenario???

theProdigal

[gingergreen]

40. very true

most economies in the world are dependent on US investments or capital.

So how DO we get out of the disgustingly sickening situation?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

51. i am only good at complaining

not fixing... :-)

Unfortunately neither I nor anyone I know is versed enough in world economic structures and dependencies to appropriately respond to your question...

Sorry...
theProdigal

[leesa]

48. They will tank but recover better than we will.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

50. due to the fact that we produce very little these days

i would agree...we have become a service oriented economy that is dependent on the products others make. We would have a long way to fall and a difficult time getting up. But...because of the globabl implications of yanking the carpet out from under ANY major player in that global economy...it would be foolish for anyone to do that...

theProdigal

[McKenzie]

62. not quite correct re the attitudes in Europe

Europe is essentially based around the UK, France and Germany. Admittedly, there is a certain element of support for Bush in the UK but much less than in the US.

The recent deal between Iran and certain EU member states viz a viz nuclear development could be interpreted as a coded message. The deal happened just around the time that there were rumblings in the US neocon circle about Iran being a threat. The timing of the deal might be co-incidence but it is equally possible that it was meant as a signal that another invasion would not be supported. If the US did invade and asked for EU support that would almost certainly result in huge public opposition over here. I doubt if EU leaders would risk alienating their electorate particularly after seeing the mess that has become Iraq. So the EU does not seem to be supporting Bush.

As for warfare there are other ways to destabilise a country apart from military might. The slide of the dollar, for example, might well be geared towards weakening the euro and reducing the possibility of it becoming the petroeuro as opposed to the petrodollar. There is considerable evidence that the Iraq war was precipitated by alarm at Saddam's switch to the euro and the possibility of a domino effect. Does Iraq still trade oil in euros? Other posters in this thread have mentioned the massive debt that the US sustains; that debt can only be serviced by the ability to print dollars on the basis that the dollar is the de facto reserve currency. Make no mistake, the need to keep the dollar as the world's reserve currency is vital to the US.

As for military conflict...exceedingly unlikely. Besides, the UK and France have nukes. Not as many as the US (not nearly as many lol!) but even half a dozen nukes landing on major cities in the US would be unacceptable damage. (god forbid that anyone even has to think about that scenario) And invading the US would be impossible even if it was ever deemed politically acceptable. Your military might is too great quite apart from which the very idea is utterly loopy in the first place.

Nope, I think any challenge to the US is likely to be economic. How a dollar crash would affect the rest of the industrial economies I'm not qualified to say. There might be a clue in the (supposed) reason that Blair supported Bush. Maybe Blair knew that it was in the UK's best interests to support Bush in regaining dollar hegemony by invading Iraq...if the US crashed maybe the UK would have went down too...who knows? Reasonable inference to draw though because I can't see any other strategic reason for Blair allying the UK with the US against Iraq. I don't think ideology played any part in the alliance...just global economic policy.

[Meme]

5. Because so many people still believe that

Bush is such a good man.. helping the Iraqi people and all... While almost anyone knew Hitler was an evil man.. I think Bush still has way too many friends.

[gingergreen]

16. Or he hasn't killed enough people yet

Hitler also had way too many friends. How do you think he rose to such power?

[Meme]

37. exactly

hitler "HAD" way too many friends. Bush still HAS way too many friends. They will see him for the bastard he really is eventually. Maybe even within the next four years. I just don´t think it will be in time for them to do anything about it anymore.

[McKenzie]

6. yup, "There have been tyrants and murderers...

and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS."

Mahatma Ghandi (1869-1948)

[Meme]

10. let´s hope so

just not sure if "in the end" will be enough. Look at all the damage he has done so far, every day it seems to get worse.. "in the end" just seems so far away, and I don´t know if there´s anything left to save "in the end"

[gingergreen]

17. ahh thank you

Gandhi is the most heroic person in my eyes that has ever lived.

[Blue Wally]

46. And in the end........

He was killed by his own revolution.

[gingergreen]

47. Correction, by a assassin.....

that joined the crowd in his revolution. lol

[Meme]

3. don´t get me wrong

I agree with you 100%. Lot of bad things have happened because of Christian Right.. just don´t see how to stop them

[Poppyseedman]

7. Define

Christian Right?

Just how do you contain it without stepping on their rights?

We step on their rights we also step on ours.

Not being contrary, but it's a good question

[ck4829]

12. The Christian Right is a Political form of Christianity

The Christian Right is basically 70% of Bush's voter base. They are led by people such as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. If you want more information on them I suggest you go to
http://theocracywatch.org

How do we contain them?

We have to make sure there is always Secularism in the country, we have just been sitting idly by and allowing them to brainwash people, we have to stop that for starters.

[Bridget Burke]

23. More information on the Dominionists here.....

www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

They've been busy behind the scenes for some years now. And many of the people doing their work are not aware of the big picture.

[tx_dem41]

28. How do you define "Secularism" n/t

[w4rma]

29. Not secularism. These folks need to be taught Jesus's teachings

from the gospels. They are trapped in the old testiment with the Ten Commandments (about half of which they ignore) and with King Hammarubi's laws (who wasn't even a Christian, he was just a king who made the world's first legal system that we know of).

These folks are Christian and will likely be some form of Christian until the day they die. The thing that has to be done is to pull them out of this anti-Christ supporting fundamentalism towards the gospels of Christ who, imho, tought the best ethics and morals documented by mankind.

[Poppyseedman]

34. 70 % of Bush's voter base?

A little math is in order here. 70% of 51% is 35.7% of the country.

If the christian right was 35.7 % of the voters, all your nightmares about a Theocracy would already be true.

We are a long way from a theocracy. Do the christian right need to be challenged? It sure does, but just because people have right wing values doesn't mean they buy into Falwell and Robertson hook, line and sinker.

I know lots of right wingers who think those guys are wackos

Let's give the American people a little more credit than that.

[Kingshakabobo]

41. They are doing a nice job at turning "Secularism" in to a dirty word.

Just like liberalism.

[BiggJawn]

57. AND "Atheism"...

AND "Agnosticism"...

"And they came for the Atheists next..."

[Kingshakabobo]

44. It is simple.

You enforce the constitution. That's what it is there for.

No need to step on anyone's rights. The problem is the Jesits scream foul when they don't get to ram their religion down everyone's throats. They cry like babies and pretend they are being oppressed. You know the deal, up is down - black is white.

[Poppyseedman]

49. Exactly right

You enforce the constitution. That's what it is there for.

Unless the constitution is changed dramatically (never happen) or the courts all fall into the Christian right wings hands (never happen), theocracy will never see the light of day in the USA.

It's difficult to understand the amount of hand wringing that goes on concerning the Christian right.

The American people may have elected Bush by a small margin, (that's even debatable by some) but they aren't going to buy into a theocracy or let one be imposed on them

[complain jane]

11. My mother just told me something interesting her reverend told her.

He said he thinks that the current situation with the Bush administration is simply a war between two extremist groups, the RW Conservative extremists and the Muslim extremists. But he also said that throughout history, whenever an extremist group tries an all-out push for control (like the RW in this country) it's usually the result of the extremists' panic over progressives' successes. So his point of view is that in the long run the fundies' push is actually a sign of better things to come after the RW fails.

He's a very progressive reverend. My mom loves him & her church, they're really nice people and very welcoming to everybody.

[tanyev]

26. I like how he thinks.

What denomination is that?

[complain jane]

38. Church of Religious Science (I think)

[bryant69]

14. You are right

Stopping them won't be easy necessarily--but a lot of things can be done to splinter them, to take their weapons away from them.

They are trying, with some success, to convince more mainstream christians that white christians are a persecuted minority and that if we liberals get in power we will work to destroy their churchs and so on. That argument is BS and i think we need to confront it directly.

Another potential faultline is the cultural difference between the southern christian conservatives and the rest of the nation. The south has a persecution complex that they don't share as much with the other parts of the nation. We might have a better time focusing on the west and the mid-west.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[ElectroPrincess]

18. AMEN!

[TaleWgnDg]

19. Religion-into-law rightwingnuts are devoid of thought . . .

The "Christian" rightwing, e.g., The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) (the Baptist schism that left the national Baptist organization in 1848 because it believed slave-owners had a right to own slaves as property and insisted upon teaching that as a religious tenet in their missionary work) believes that women particularly their wives are subordinate to their husbands and must obey their husbands in all matters.

On the other hand, feminists believe that they are equal to their husbands.

"Christian" rightwingers believe that feminists are the cause of the break-up of traditional families since wives no longer remain at home to be homemakers and raise the children exclusively. This, of course, does not recognize that America no longer can survive on one paycheck for a family.

They also believe that feminists are the cause of so-called "non-traditional" families, i.e., families that no longer have "one man and one woman plus children" as the nucleus of the family. They blame feminists for the divorce rate in America -- despite the Bible Belt having the highest divorce rate in the country.

They blame the crime rate on feminists because it is they, feminists, who have "broken 'traditional' families" that cause criminal behavior -- again, despite the Bible Belt being one of America's most violent areas of the country.

They push sex-abstinence-until-marriage; however, statistics reveal once again that the Bible Belt leads the country in out-of-marriage childbirths, leads the country in sexually transmitted diseases (STD). And that so-called "abstinence-only sex education" leads to AIDS since abstinence is void of condom distribution and education as well as "safe sex" education.

This list of hypocrisies goes on and on and on and on and on . . . and the operative word is I-G-N-O-R-A-N-C-E. And it is this culture that they want to proselytize upon the rest of the country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

.

[izzie]

20. You must recall that Europe /Churches backed all their rulers--

from about 300 AD until about 1900 and we should all want to be like them.It was all run so well. Looks like we are putting the date about 1500 where we should be. One belief for all and rulers to make it so. Fun.Yes and the world was flat and made in 7 days. Lets for get 500 years, go back to where this crazy church wants us to go. I also can think of a few people I would like to burn.

[tom_paine]

21. Just like in 1933 Germany, where the Christian Right was the backbone

of the SA and SS.



Were will our Next Generation of Kinder and Genlter Brownshirts take us?

We will all find out by and by, and of course after the upcoming tragedies and catastrophes, economic, environmental, social (not to mention Bush's Pal Bin Laden and LIHOP #2) we will get to see what they do to us when they ahve carte blanche.

[gingergreen]

27. yes, you should see this discussion...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2828886&mesg_id=2828886&page=

[ladjf]

24. I agree. But, how can they be stopped?. They are thriving by

virtue of the stupidity and ignorance of their constituency. They are zealously tireless in their apocalyptic quest for power.

[w4rma]

30. The left must unite instead of having all these petty squabbles. (nt)

[Iris]

32. Growing up in the Bible Belt, I found there was always a group

of kids who went from one extreme to the other - they'd be falling down drunk or wasted on whatever the drug of the day was one week and then they'd go to church camp and get "saved" and wouldn't even say the word "shit" much less take even a sip of alcohol.

I think people are so desperate today for some meaning in their lives that they will pretty much try anything. Eventually some of these folks will go back to their old ways - if they ever even really stopped them. I remember one couple I babysat for who used to drive to Atlanta and rent a motel room and sit around and drink because they couldn't do it in our "small" town (100,000 people!) for fear that someone from their church would see them.

[tx_dem41]

31. "Make the Wall of Separation....very high".....I would be interested to ..

hear some ideas on that.

[NewJeffCT]

35. another problem is that they breed like rabbits

It seems like many of those fundie families have 10+ children... it's all part of their long term plan to breed liberals out of existence, or at least into a small minority.

[gingergreen]

36. "Been around the world and found

that only stupid people are breeding" --- Sublime

Ah I miss that band. So true.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

43. No more invitro: 'God's plan is for you to be childless' Hmmmm

Since they see science as evil and medical procedures to be against God's plan, why is invitro (test tube babies) fertilization accepted. The message should be clear to them from the medical/science community: Your God has chosen a different path for you and I cannot interfere medically.

[tanyev]

52. Exactly!

And why aren't they horrified by all the extra embryos that are created when you use in vitro which then sit languishing in a laboratory freezer somewhere? Seems like they would be opposed to the procedure. If they were consistent, that is.

[NewJeffCT]

53. in vitro is okay

In vitro is okay with fundies because it is usually white people that can afford it - so, the more white people, the merrier to them.

[tanyev]

54. Oh, sure.

But doesn't that make them (gasp!) hypocrites?

[MatrixEscape]

42. Imagine knowing this for a few years!

People used to tell me I was way off base when the Christo-Fascist agenda became clear, (thanks to various well-documented websites and my research).

Now that we see the Radical Right-wing Religious Republicans spewing their Mosaic Biblical agenda out like a college kid puking on Spring Break, it is clear that a passive political response to the battle lines clearly being drawn is not viable.

I suggest spreading the awareness of this and making the issues clear as an azure sky of deepest Summer, to others. Stemming the tide is really preserving Democracy as we know it.

[Bridget Burke]

45. I've recently found similar websites....

I'd been vaguely aware of the Dominionist movement but the details have become frighteningly clear.

This story definitely needs more publicity. Not just to the fairly secular Liberal types (like me!)--but to the Christians who are being used. Here in Texas, we've got lots of Fundamentalists/Evangelicals. They may have their quirks, but most of them would be appalled if they knew the real plan.

[TrogL]

56. I've been warning people about this for years

but I've been a lone voice crying in the wilderness.

[TWiley]

55. Hallelujah Brother, Please pass the beans.

Most politically active Conservative Christians in my neck of the woods are war mongering racists. Many are survivalists with huge arsenals.

Check out the Interfaith Alliance. It is a very rare type of Christian outfit that Walter Cronkite has been promoting. Maybe the best way to deal with these assholes is through a group like them.

Also, I am a member of the ACLU, the Southern poverty Law Center, and 4 other similarly minded organizations which battle this type of thing.

Don't wait for the democratic party to do anything, It will likely never happen

[info being]

58. We have to stop taking them seriously.

You know, trying to reach out to them an all. We need to marginalize, marginalize, marginalize. That's what they do in every free country.

[Bridget Burke]

59. They have to be taken seriously--& opposed.

If we have any Fundamentalist and/or Evangelical friends & relatives--they need information on what the Dominionists really want for the USA & the world. Reach out to them with knowledge--most of them would be appalled at the truth.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

60. One way...

is to fully support the liberal Christian groups like:

American United for the Separation of Church and State:
http://www.au.org

Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
http://www.sojo.net/

Interfaith Alliance
http://www.interfaithalliance.org

The RW "christians" need to be exposed for the pharisees they are and marginalized completely.

[GreenPartyVoter]

61. Agreed, the talibornagains are really going over the top and

before you know it we'll be living in a mirror of Iran.

------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/