"Taking the "Christ" out of Christmas is a big RW phony issue.

[Sara Beverley]

Just more political bullshit. There aren't anymore suits against Nativity scenes now than there were 20 years ago. No one can take the "Christ" out of Christmas if YOU don't want it out. Americans have been saying "Happy Holidays" since I was a kid 40 years ago. "Merry Christmas" "Happy Holidays" "Season's Greetings" were all on cards since I can remember. This bullshit is just another way for the RW to keep their agenda in the public eye and to usurp real news coverage with this bullshit!

[lgardengate]

1. It's not political to a Christian who...

see's that every group is suposed to be respected but one.When it's only the Nativity scene that must go it seems a bit glaring..like (EVERYONE is encluded but you...go away,sit down,shut up).So yeah,we bitch.

[Sara Beverley]

5. When is the last time someone complained to you about a Nativity scene?

When is the last time someone said to you, "Don't say 'Merry Christmas' to me?"

Will you stop saying "Merry Christmas" because someone wants you to?

[Blind Tiresias]

9. I honestly dont care abt nativity scenes in public places

Let's be honest folks, christmas is a christian religous holiday, and it honestly doesnt offend me to see a nativity scene anywhere during christmas time. I think this is entirely different than say...putting a superfluous 3 ton monument to the 10 commandmants in the middle of a state supreme court. I can tell you that as a Hindu, i really doesnt offend me to see nativity scenes in public, or government places, because it depicts the reason why that holiday exists. I salute those christians during this time, because i get the day off! :toast: :toast: :toast:

[xxqqqzme]

14. it is a shame christians R sooooo

'put upon' in the US. There R about 50 satellite channels 'devoted' to televangelists begging 4 $$$$ while the TBN network headquarters here in so cal lights up the night from mid Nov thru Jan w/ their light displays. Many could B fed and clothed with what they pay in electricity for those 2 months.

[Nobody]

23. You might be pleased to know

that in downtown in our skyway system, one of the lobbies has the following:

A decorated tree

A giant menorah

Kwanzaa candles

and yes, a creche

Each of these things has a card with an explanation of what they mean.

Not only that, but we also have a lot of professional artists performing various interpretations of the nativity. Not sure where you live, but here, all traditions are respected.

[kayell]

30. I keep hearing Christians make this claim, but I have NEVER

actually seen a case where Christian religious symbols were barred from a governmental area while other religious symbols were allowed. The ACLU and other groups would be on those cases just as fast.

People who are serious about seperation of church and state are serious about making sure that NO religions get mixed up in government.

Feel free to provide examples from reliable sources where Christian symbols are removed and other religions symbols are permitted on government land. Until then, count me as incredibly skeptical about persecution of Christians.

[blondeatlast]

40. If you want to set someone back when they give you the "Christian Nation"

argument, just tell them that if we remove the wall that keeps worship and state separate, the STATE can begin to dictate worship, including how and what is worshipped.

Dumbstruck, I guarantee.

I'm a Christian who actively works to protect that wall, and I use this often. It sets them back on their heels.

[ktowntennesseedem]

50. I've never been successful with that argument

In their feeble little minds, a "Christian Nation" would be one in which everyone thinks and believes like they do, all with the government's help and blessing. They would have no trouble with government standards and restrictions, because any regulations would merely be forcing others to worship and believe the way they already do. (This is all because they are convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong, and any Christian Nation would naturally support their right beliefs and restrict all wrong beliefs.) They just can't imagine a scenario in which the government imposes any religious practices they would disapprove of.

[blondeatlast]

31. I'm a Christian too, secure in the knowledge that I'm NOT oppresse

This is the same old hypersensitivity the RadRight constantly accuses us of. Go ahead, play into their hands.

You aren't oppressed (except perhaps on DU). You can wear your cross, you can read your Bible, you can attend your house of worship without being harrassed.

People die for the right to worship as they please. You are quite safe from that in the US. Some have legitimate fears they can't (my sister in law is Muslim).


Happy Holidays! It's a polite thing to say, nothing more, nothing less. If you are offended by someone being polite, politics is NOT your friend.

[JerseygirlCT]

42. The only time it's only the Nativity scene that must go

is when the Nativity scene has been the only display. In most cases, removing the Nativity scene is a choice the rw types make in order to avoid a more inclusive holiday display.

Personally, I think my faith is belittled by mass-consumerism, government-controlled Christmas displays. I can worship fine in my heart and at my church -- I don't need to insist that everyone participate.

[Beetwasher]

56. Jews Don't Go Around INSISTING Menorahs Be Put Up Everywhere

Why do some Christians insist that they MUST be able to put their religious symbols anywhere they want and with my JEWISH tax dollars?

Idiot.

[thinkingwoman]

74. did you forget your sarcasm tag?

You didn't seriously post that Christian nativity scenes must go while other religous displays stay did you?

If so, I'd be interested in reading facts to back up your assertion. Just one example of a menorah in a public venue but no nativity or Christmas tree or Santa will do.

Just one.

There are religious beliefs that are being persecuted in this country. Christianity is not one of them.

[RandomKoolzip]

2. Yup. Except now with millions of dollars from various foundations

behind it, this insipid meme can be planted forever in the collective national conciousness with no reality intruding upon its pristine authority.

The media used to be the people's lapdog; now it is an arm of the RW entire.

[GRLMGC]

3. That's what they do

They create outrage out of nothing. They're really good at it.

[trotcop]

4. They're Hypocrits

If they're so upset by x-mas and happy holidays, why aren't they upset about flying reindeer, elves, a big fat guy in a red suit or a rabbit that lays eggs and leaves chocolate?

[Sara Beverley]

6. You are pretty funny!

:hi:

[jmatthan]

10. The big fat guy in the red suit

I have heard from many sources, was started by Coca Cola!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[immoderate]

54. No. He worked for Macy's before that.

Coke just offered him a better contract.

Seriously, the "guy" as Father Christmas, or Kris Kringle, or St. Nicholas draws on many European legends and was largely contemporized by illustrator Thomas Nast in Harper's in late 1800s.

"Night Before Xmas" poem was written in 1823 by Clement Moore.

Here's a site, there are others.
http://www.the-north-pole.com/history/

--IMM

[Union Thug]

7. It's a phony issue cuz it's a phony holiday.

As I was saying elsewhere, christmas is only about keeping the capitalist machine tuned and spinning. The older I get, the more I see that this is the case. Who gives a shit about spirituality and the prince of peace when there's sweat shop made crap to buy at walmart and a good old fashioned imperialist war to bind the masses in common, misguided, patriotic fervor?

The veneer of xtian religion isn't even authentic to the season...Sorry, but Yule is a holy tide of the Germanic pagan people, not xtian.

I'm especially annoyed by the manger scenes that look as though they take place somewhere in Scandinavia (not to mention the anglo-saxon images of Jesus).

Sham. 'Nuff said?

[AliciaKeyedUp]

24. The birth of Christ is not phony

Whenever we celebrate it. It is a huge thing to hundreds of millions of Christians.

[REP]

41. Christmas is about Christianizing a Popular Pagan Holiday

Christ, if he existed, was born in the spring (shepherd don't watch over their flocks in the dead of winter, for one thing). The early church made a very popular and ancient holiday "Christian" by calling it the Feast of the Nativity and leaving it pretty much alone aside from that. Birth days were unimportant to early Christians, and the day of Jesus's birth is the least important event in Christianity; it is his death and subsequent resurrection that is the raison d'etre for the entire religion. Simply put, until very VERY recently, Christmas was not a huge thing Christians - most Prostestant churches didn't even have services on Dec 25!

[InvisibleBallots]

70. evidence please?

I've read versions of this all over the place, especiacally on the internet. Of course, like many urban legends, I've never seen any proof. Do you have any?

For instance, do you have any evidence or proof of the following statements:

"The early church made a very popular and ancient holiday "Christian" by calling it the Feast of the Nativity and leaving it pretty much alone aside from that."

"Birth days were unimportant to early Christians, and the day of Jesus's birth is the least important event in Christianity"

"Simply put, until very VERY recently, Christmas was not a huge thing Christians - most Prostestant churches didn't even have services on Dec 25!"

Have you ever read any Martin Luther (father of Protestantism) regarding Christmas? Where are these stories coming from?

[RobinA]

72. This Is a Matter

of history, look it up.

Here's the stance I'm taking in response to this "taking Christ out of Christmas" nonsense: My family on every side is German. We and other northern Europeans had a perfectly good holiday going to celebrate the return of the light - Yule. Christians came along and slapped their Christ over top of it just so they could get people to pay attention to his birthday. Now they come along and whine that Christ is being taken out of Christmas, where he never was in the first place.

People should let other people celebrate whatever they want at the end of December, and they should stop fussing. Christians can celebrate it as the symbloic birthday of Christ. People who want to celebrate the return of light should be able to do so. People who want to celebrate lamp oil lasting for 8 days should do so. Saturnalians can worship their god. Wish people whatever you want, but be aware of the consequences if you wish a Jew a Merry Christmas. I'll be wishing people a Happy Yuletide this year.

[tx_dem41]

46. Why do you show no respect to the Christians on this board...by

denigrating their very sincere religious observance?

[Union Thug]

60. I've expressed both fact and opinion. If that's denigrating, I guess

I'm guilty.

I'm not going to hide anything. I'm an atheist who was once very spiritual. I honestly don't have any patience for the kind of incoherent blathering that the fundies are wailing over this year (or in years past). The difference now is that I say what I feel, rather than politely turning in quiet disdain.

I'm sick of their self-righteous, ill-informed, self pitying whining.

But my bitter attitude is not reserved exclusively for christians.. I feel the same about any religious group. I'm just tired of the whole religious magical world view, especially considering that there is a very real world that needs our attention.

[Robbien]

8. BushCo needs to keep control of his little bushbots

The Bushbots need to perceive themselves as victims. They have to feel persecuted or they can't stir up the requisite fury. BushCo uses this fury to keep the bots in his camp and under his control.

So now that the election is over, BushCo started this christ in christmas propaganda campaign to stir the fury and have that fury focused against "liberals".

When the holidays are over, BushCo will set up another campaign victimizing his bots and directing their fury against a BushCo chosen target, probably "liberals" again or it could be just about anything or anyone.

[blondeatlast]

32. You nailed it. They won the election, they have both houses and probably

SCOTUS, but they must continue to reinforce the false idea that it's their side who is oppressed and must live in fear. Sounds similar to, oh, what's the name of that country, what's his name, SADDAM--you know, where all the al-Qaeda are from--oh yeah--IRAQ (please note deep sarcasm!).

I'm a Christian, and when someone starts in on this BS that we are being oppressed, I don't hold back.

My SIL left Iran with her family because her brand of Muslim wasn't appreciated after the Ayatollah Khomeini came to power.

THAT is oppression, people--fearing for your life if you go to worship.

Not allowing a nativity scene is upholding the Constitution.

Getting offended because someone wishes you "Happy Holidays?"

That's just mental illness, IMHO.

[OneTwentyoNine]

36. Yup,don't worry about 1300 DEAD in Iraq or the deficit..

Keep fanning the flames on all this "I'm being victimized" religious BS. Here in Wichita we had to endure their whining about a tree being called a community tree instead of Christmas tree.

A whopping 50 or 60 people called the mayor and pissed and moaned out of 350,000 that live in this city. Of course it was BIG news and drowned out the next 6-7 Marines that lost their lives in Bush Co's illegal invasion.

[SiouxJ]

52. Exactly! They have nothing else to talk about now

They have the whole enchilada so now they need a new issue to keep the troops fired up. Also, it's a distraction from how badly everything is still going. I read two articles and one letter to the editor about how Christmas is being "stolen," in my local right wing rag yesterday. Most of what was said was inaccurate too. This is their new campaign at the moment. They sent the word out to all their pundits and look for it to become a very big deal. I'm sure there's already an email floating around about how Christmas is in jeopardy. Something for all the little bots to pass along. What a bunch of malarkey! Unfortunately, they have the machinery in place to spread this kind of crap and no other use for it at the moment.

[AgadorSparticus]

61. yes, everything has a shelf life and i think most people are flagged out.

they can only take so much "patriotism" before they choke on it. so onwards. the next cake is the jesus cake. specifically, the merry christmas jesus cake. it will be pushed until it gets old and then we will move to the next propaganda. it will never end....

[Erika]

11. I'm a liberal who wants to know why Bushco

did away with Christ's Golden Rule.

Yes, commercialism has killed the true spirit of Christmas.

I'm fired up enough that I'm going to send all my DC Reps (all GOP) a demand letter on why Bushco has done away with Christ's Golden Rule to live our lives by. I would suggest many do that. It's time they know that liberals read the Bible also. I'm looking forward to their comments.

[pinballer]

12. "Christ" out of Christmas ???................

""It's a phony issue cuz it's a phony holiday.
......christmas is only about keeping the capitalist machine tuned and spinning. Who gives a shit about spirituality and the prince of peace when there's sweat shop made crap to buy at walmart and a good old fashioned imperialist war to bind the masses in common, misguided, patriotic fervor?""

Very true.

Excellent post.

[Straight Shooter]

13. I hate this crap, every year for 20 years we've gone through this crap

In reverence to the true spirit of Christmas in America, and in deference to Neiman-Marcus and the other "high-class" purveyors of trashy materialistic brand-envy garbage, we should call it Christmalls.

Every year we bemoan the lack of the real meaning of Christmas, and in the arguments which ensue, the real meaning gets buried deeper and deeper. It's a shame, it really is.

[Erika]

15. The meaning has not been buried

Our gifts will be homemade candies to those closest to us. It's about time liberals took a stand on which party backs total commercialism and prays for profits during the Christmas season. We won't be a part of it this year.

The election of Bush and his fascist ways of controlling Americans has put a brake on our family, and I hope many others.

[Straight Shooter]

16. I hear you

Tomorrow is a day off work for me (that's why I'm up so late tonight) and I will be making homemade goodies for friends and loved ones.

I asked my friends to donate to an environmental organization in my name, in lieu of gifts.

[magellan]

17. The real meaning of Christmas

...is getting cool stuff, isn't it? :evilgrin:

Actually, a Christian friend and I were discussing this a few days ago. He's angered about "discrimination against Christian displays in public". Luckily I had just read the thread someone posted about the 'Happy Winter Solstice' sign they'd put up near a nativity scene, both on public property by permit. The sign was defaced, knocked down and driven over night after night until both permits were revoked, I believe. And that's as it should be, for the obvious reasons.

I said that a lot of times, what Christians call 'discrimination' is the separation of church and state being enforced to STOP discrimination. Like many, he doesn't get that. He argues that because this is a Christian nation, Christian displays should not only be allowed in public, but expected. If you don't like it, don't look.

It's very hard to get through to some of them. :shrug:

[blondeatlast]

34. I'm a Christian who knows what REAL oppression is.

Not because I'm a Christian, mind you, but I've heard the hooror stories about Iran from my SIL's family.

I tend to go off on Christians who adopt the "victim mentality."

We are the majority in this country. Our pResident continually extols his phony "Christian" values.

I always tell them that I think Christ would seriously approve of the Constitution and He'd consider it a damn fine piece of work.

That typically gets them steamed--and thinking. Then I find a way to excuse myself from the situation.

[REP]

18. There Never Was Much "Christ" In It

The early church just Christianized Sol Invictus/Solstice, celebrated Dec 25 by Romans with a lot of festivals, boozing, parties, and general fun. They called it the Feast of the Nativity and it was not an 'important' day, like Easter, and they kept all the party aspects, since they were so popular. It stayed that way for a long time - it was only in the mid 1800s in the US did church services even become part of the the celebrations!

I forget exactly when the name Christ Mass (Christmas) got invented, but it's fairly new. The holiday itself is ancient. It's cold and dark and everything is dead - a party with lights, food, drink and presents is a good idea, no matter what it's called. But insisting that anyone put "Christ" in the holiday is being pretty modern.

[Disturbed]

20. It is part of the agenda.

Prayer in schools, vouchers, public displays of christianity, laws against abortion, homosexuals,banning books that they deem improper creationism taught in schools. The right wing so-called Christians have goals and they keep pushing. It is their intent to force Amerika to adhere to their ideas.

[Harry S Truman]

45. a simple equation

christianity = fascism

[tx_dem41]

48. How do the teachings of Christ = fascism?

Or are you making the distinction between them and Christianity?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

19. Christmas is what you make of it...

As much commercialism as there is to the Christian celebration of Christmas, (and, yes, I understand the celebration's pagan roots) it is a relatively simple matter to make of Christmas what you want. You can choose to see it as crass commercialism and let it affect you to your core. You can get offended at every reference to Christmas you see and spend a couple of months pissed off about everything. You can see it as an opportunity to pick fights over things that ultimately come down to a select few obnoxious assholes. People who don't like Christmas or Christians have been complaining for years about the whole season of Christmas...I don't imagine it is going to change. The only person who can change it for you is...you.

theProdigal

[Disturbed]

21. Interesting

[yankeedem]

22. the Pugs are just test marketing

Wedge issues for '06. It's the new "gay marriage".

[hollowdweller]

25. Very True! GHW had "the pledge" I think it's a Texas political tactic to

get the peckerwoods fired up.

[blondeatlast]

35. Indeed. I see this "Christmas" thing as a big loser.

The "Happy holidays" e-mail was considered a laugher by most of my Christian acquaintences. Only the really stupid ones took it seriously.

[Bridget Burke]

26. Precisely. Check the main sources for the story.

Here's an early version--almost a year old:

www.cwfa.org/articles/5040/CFI/misc/

It was written by Robert Knight, director of the Culture & Family Institute, an affiliate of Concerned Women for America, which celebrates Christmas, not “the holiday.”

So--who are the Concerned Women for America? This group was founded to combat the Equal Rights Amendment. The leader is Beverly LaHaye, wife of Tim LaHaye, co-author of the "Left Behind" books. This Bob Jones University educated couple is deeply involved in the Dominionist movement. Dominionism is a natural if unintended extension of Social Darwinism and is frequently called “Christian Reconstructionism.” Its doctrines are shocking to ordinary Christian believers and to most Americans. Journalist Frederick Clarkson, who has written extensively on the subject, warned in 1994 that Dominionism “seeks to replace democracy with a theocratic elite that would govern by imposing their interpretation of ‘Biblical Law.’” He described the ulterior motive of Dominionism is to eliminate “…labor unions, civil rights laws, and public schools.”

www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

These people operate by stealth. Most conservative Christians do not know the ultimate purpose of this group but the more credulous of them support the various campaigns that are periodically foisted upon the public. And they vote for Bush because he's a "Godly" man. The whore media also feast on the "stories" supplied to them.

The sickest joke? The Christian Reconstruction movement sprang from a very conservative Calvinism--the same belief system that believes Christmas to be a Popish/Pagan celebration that ought to be forbidden. So these people really don't care if the whole holiday is ruined. They just use the controversy that they manufactured to divide people.

[nascarblue]

27. great link, pass it on...

Two online free documenataries on the religious right wing that will teach you more than a whole year of Air America.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.wmv

http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/liberty.wmv

[VioletLake]

28. Everything they say is phony; they're worthless.

Not only is their word unreliable, it's downright malicious. That's a good rule of thumb. If what they say sounds (or is) true, ask yourself: Why are they telling the truth this time?

[leftchick]

29. REALITY! : bush* took Christmas OUT of Iraq!

Christians in Iraq skipping Christmas

By EDMUND SANDERS

Los Angeles Times


BAGHDAD, Iraq — After a painful year of church bombings, death threats and assassinations, Iraq’s 800,000 Christians have all but canceled Christmas.

“All the Christians have left the country,” said Saif Sadi, a manager of a store that sells Christmas decorations, where sales this season are down 75 percent.

“Officially, we are not celebrating this year,” said Father Peter Haddad, head of the Virgin Mary Church in Baghdad.

Fearing insurgent attacks in this predominantly Muslim country, bishops around the country recently announced they would call off the usual Christmas celebrations. Some churches will also forgo Christmas Eve Mass, an unheard of step even during the Saddam Hussein regime.

More than 700 people once packed Haddad’s church during the holiday. Last Sunday, 27 brave worshipers showed up.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/10457418.htm

[blondeatlast]

37. This is religious persecution, America, and the irony comes later:

(snip)
Fearing insurgent attacks in this predominantly Muslim country, bishops around the country recently announced they would call off the usual Christmas celebrations. Some churches will also forgo Christmas Eve Mass, an unheard of step even during the Saddam Hussein regime.

(snip)
Christians have lived in Iraq for hundreds of years, enjoying peaceful relations with Muslims for most of that time. But after the U.S.-led invasion, insurgents began targeting the community, accusing Christians of cooperating with American “infidels.”

Christian leaders estimate as many as 50,000 Christians have fled the country since last year. Some churches have resorted to armed guards.


Yes, this is religious persecution. And the UNITED STATES is the cause of it.

Nice work, Mr. "Oh So Christian" Bush.

This is democracy under pResident Bush. I'm a Christian, and if anyone tells me that Christians are subject to persecution in the US, I'm may very well be very un-Christ-like towards them.

[kayell]

33. Put Saturn back in Saturnalia! Put Sol back in Solstice!

Give me that old time religion!

[blondeatlast]

38. I miss ol' Sol, darnit! He's heading back, I hear...

Happy Saturnalia, Happy Solstice, Happy whatever-you-feel-like celebrating, dammit!

[AzDar]

49. Hear,hear!! The winter solstice is approaching, and we're going to dance

around like naked pixies in the backyard just to piss off the Fundies next door. All hail Sol Invictus, whose birthday we are TRULY celebrating on Dec. 25.

[Sparkly]

51. "Because we need a little Dionysian revelry, right this very minute,"

"orgies in the window, wine jugs on the spinet..."

[janx]

58. LOL!

Sparkly, you crack me up!

[October]

39. Agreed...here's what I told my auntie

My aunt had written me an email and it, she said "Merry Christmas...if we're even allowed to say that anymore...don't get me started..."

She sounded so heated...as she always does these days....

So part of my reply said "As far as not being allowed to say 'Merry Christmas,' goes...just stop watching FOX...really...they'll have you hating everything and everyone pretty soon...Christians are always threatened by those liberals and secularists...

I also told her she always had the power to say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukkah" to anyone she chose and that no one forced her to say "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings..."

Anyway...I went on a bit, and I reminded her that the repubs control everything (House, Senate, etc.), and I'm just wondering when they're going to get happy. I mean, why they're still so angry about everything?

FOX is getting everyone so fired up, and they're in a constant state of anger -- even during Christmas!!!

[blondeatlast]

43. If a Christian (as I am) gets offended by a polite

"Happy Holidays" or even Hannukah, there is something so elementally non-Christian abou them it makes me wonder if they've ever really thought about Christ's life and work.

FAUX is breeding a disgusting "victim" mentality int the MAJORITY religion in this country, and I despise it.

[October]

69. Exactly...Before she started watching FOX...

my aunt was a well-educated, open-minded "Christian" woman. I am so shocked by her change that I can only attribute it to her having switched to FOX.

She's angrier, less Christian, less tolerant, now tells insulting jokes...I cannot tell you how I loved this woman (even if she leaned 'right'), but now? I barely know her. It's ugly, ugly brainwashing.

[Sparkly]

44. How Silly

Even if they're bothered by Hannukah, Kwanzaa, or celebrations of the Solstice, Christmas + New Year's Day = Two Holidays. "Happy Holidays." What's the big deal?! And who gasps and points when people say "Merry Christmas?"

(I, too, remember "Season's Greeting" and "Happy Holidays" on cards for as long as I can remember. You can look on ebay and see old ones that still have those phrases. I do remember a fuss some years back about the word "Christmas" and whether it was taking the name "Christ" in vain or something.)

I think if people wanted to sell more wrapping paper, for example, they'd start on "Liberals don't like wrapping paper. I guess some people think ribbon is enough. Remember when we were kids, how great wrapping paper was? Kids love wrapped presents, it's a family tradition, but I guess liberals don't like kids or families or traditions. They're tree-huggers and they think it's wasteful. The three wise men probably wrapped their gifts, but liberals don't want anything having to do with the Bible. They're out to destroy Christianity and all family traditions!" Next thing you know, there'd be a run on wrapping paper. Bumperstickers: "We love wrapping paper." Gifts with tags, "I hope you don't mind I WRAPPED this." ...

{Edited to say: Meant this as a reply to #39 about the aunt who wrote "Merry Christmas, if we're even allowed to say that anymore.")

[dryan]

47. My 2 cents.....

yes, folks we all know that Christmas started out as pagan Roman holiday and yes we all know that it has gotten commercialized, etc. and yes blah blah blah. I love Christmas!!!!! In 1995 my husband and I were both out of work and we had maybe 2 cents between us and we still decorated the house, put lights up. I was starting a new job after the first of the year but wouldn't get a check until the middle of January. One of our neighbors had us over for Christmas dinner and our landlord allowed us to pay our rent late with no penalty. Yet another neighbor gave us a $20.00 gift certificate for gasoline for the car. It was one of the most wonderful holidays we ever had. Half of my relatives are Jewish so maybe I grew up with a different viewpoint than many people. In my father's house they had a blue and white 'holiday' tree. (And before anyone 'flames' me--my grandfather was one of the most generous men I have ever known who sent thousands to help Israel to become a country.)I don't have a problem either with people saying "Seasons Greetings" or "Happy Holidays" and yes I remember cards and decorations with those sayings too. Folks, we have more important things to fight about than whether there is a manger scene in the town square or not. And frankly I wouldn't have a problem with a mennorah up there either or one of the Kwanza candle displays either.

Merry Christmas!

[Nobody]

57. I'd love to see a "...if we're allowed to say that anymore" email

I'd reply to all the following:

"Did President Bush actually sign a law outlawing Christmas? Now I'm really glad I didn't vote for him. Imagine, the president outlawing a major holiday. With the Republican majority in both houses, I'd be very surprised if the Democrats would be able to bring back Christmas until 2008. Don't get me started....."

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

53. At a "Holiday Party" this weekend...

And this little old lady down the block (she's got to be eighty if she's a day) went on this rant about how children in public schools aren't even allowed to sing Christmas Carols any more. I assured her that both of my kids are in public school and their "Holiday Program" a few nights earlier was filled with traditional Christmas carols.

I know where they get this crapola, but why they'll believe it is simply beyond me.

[Freebird12004]

55. church & politics

sound familiar ? ! ?

[BiggJawn]

59. "Happy Holidays" recorded by Steve and Eydie...

From the 1964 Album "That Holiday Feeling"

Happy Holidays
Steve Lawrence & Eydie Gorme

Happy holidays, happy holidays
While the merry bells keep ringing
May your every wish come true

Happy holidays, happy holidays
May the calendar keep ringing
Happy holidays to you

Happy holidays, happy holidays
While the merry bells keep ringing
May your every wish come true

Happy holidays, happy holidays
May the calendar keep ringing
Happy holidays to you

Whistling
While the merry bells keep ringing
May your every wish come true

Whistling
May the calendar keep ringing
Happy holidays to you

La-da-dum, da-da-da-dum
La-da-da-da-de-da
While the merry bells keep ringing
May your every wish come true

Merry Christmas to you
Happy new year, the whole year through
Happy holidays, happy holidays, happy holidays to you


Wow! Dark forces of Liberalism were trying to rip the Baby Jeebus from his manger FORTY YEARS AGO!!!

Scandalous! Does Bill O'LIElly know about this?

[Art_from_Ark]

63. Christmas seals from 1936

[Garbo 2004]

65. Hey, lay off Steve & Edie! Don't feed them to Billdo, I beg of you. ;-)

Yah, they were godless Commie heathens trying to rob us of our spiritual heritage. :crazy:

Billdo lecturing anyone on spirituality and moral values is a travesty.

Wonder if he's getting a rechargable battery pack for Christmas.

:evilgrin:

[BiggJawn]

68. Captain Billdo?

From Billdo Newfoundland?
:evilgrin:

[dryan]

75. Remember this song....

[musette_sf]

62. We bought our holiday cards

at an antique & collectibles show. A nice big box of early 1940s cards. Plenty of "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings". No Jeebus-specific cards. All "Merry Christmas" cards show gifts, trees, snow, other seasonal stuff.

So lo even 60 years ago, people wanted to be friendly to their neighbors so *everyone* could enjoy the season.

[Garbo 2004]

64. eh, why don't organized Christians groups protest the commercialization

of Christmas? Protest at the malls? Boycot the buying frenzy? The blatant materialism? Lecture people on the folly of going into debt to buy crap that many folks neither need or want? The holiday is not supposed to be about commerce and profit.

Oh...but actually the promotion of the holiday as a secular phenomenon was and is indeed about commerce and profit.

And to divorce the church holiday from the secular holiday would, of course, be unAmerican.

In the words of our leaders, go shopping, go to the malls, spend, spend, spend...

}(

[Stryguy]

66. Exactly!

If anything takes Christ out of Christmas it's the idea that Christmas is about giving/getting stuff. Why does our religious leader president insist we should spend for christmas. A true Christian would be telling us to go to our place of worship and pray for baby jesus. *puke*

Perhaps the president should encourage people to spend a day or two of the holidays in a homeless kitchen feeding the hungry. Nah.. Let's just gut social security instead and encourage everyone to rack up some credit card debt!


Merry Christmas all!

[bobbieinok]

67. some religious right used to do this.....now they've got a new message???

[KT2000]

71. Anything to be the victim

After 12/25 they will start new campaigns where "everyone is against them" and taking away their rights because they can't force their religion on others.

[spanone]

73. I've heard this crap all my life. Hey when you have a voice repeat it.

The r/w christian cowboys are gonna be stampeding for the next four years. They have the Lords CEO in Bush* and they are gonna act aggressively on their agenda. Fasten your seatbelts.