SNL/TV Funhouse w/Santa and "Dumbf*ckistan

[dubyaD40web]

Does anyone have a copy of last Sat. SNL's TV Funhouse? It was great! Santa didn't want to give gifts to the red states and called them "Dumbf*ckistan."

I HAVE to see that again!

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

1. I'd like a copy of that too.

It was very funny.

[marc_the_dem]

163. me too

I was on the floor laughing my ass off...

[Willy Lee]

2. That is the same guy who does Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog.

Love him!

[GingerSnaps]

6. Thank you for mentioning that

My freeper sister is going to get a Triumph DVD for Christmas this year. :D

[Pachamama]

15. Smigel

That's his name...

[Lorien]

146. He was a big Kerry supporter

gave Leno (deservedly) a lot of shit for having his nose up GOP a** during the election.

[liberalhistorian]

3. I can't wait for the

winger shitstorm over that, and for them to start flooding the thought police-uh, I mean, the FCC-with complaints, like they have nothing else to do in their lives. God, I'm so sick of those people!

[AP]

5. People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right?

I can't see the wingers crticizing that piece because it was actually making fun of liberals who don't want to reach out to them.

[jellybelly]

7. that's what I thought

I didn't consider that piece at all anti-conservative. That piece was intended to show how ignorant liberals are. It wasn't that funny but I'm not complaining, and the Rush scene was hilarious.

[AP]

9. I thought it was very funny. But it was certainly putting a mirror up to..

...a lot of DU'ers.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[AP]

23. I can understand if people say "who's smigel to say I shouldn't call...

...the south dumbfuckistan?" But to think that the cartoon was funny AND to continue to say "fuck the south"? Now that's the most dumbfuckistan thing I've heard.

[bpilgrim]

28. now don't you feel better ;->

peace

[trixie]

119. I am peeing my pants....

That site is soooo funny. Must make multiple copies.

Gotta go!

[Sterling]

105. Whatever

go hang out with a bunch of freepers for all I care.

[AP]

109. I refuse to be a cog in the right wing spin machine. I'm not going

to hammer away at the R v B wedge.

It's stupid, and it should require Robert Smigel's satire for people to figure it out (and apparently, for some, not even Robert Smigel's satire is going to make the light bulb go on).

[Sterling]

173. But you are a cog in the spin machine you just don't realize it.

You are promoting the liberal elite myth. You are placing the blame for the culture war on the left. You are attacking people who are fighting back against the RW machine.

You are basically trying to neuter the tiny faction of the left that actually has a set of balls. Take one listen to RW talk radio. It is very clear your assertion that hard rhetoric and tough talk are not welcome in American politics is false.

The country was divided by the RW hate machine and now you have a choice to fight back or be assimilated by the Borg. For all I know the war is already lost but I won't go quietly for W, Rush, Hanity or you.


Talk til your blue in the face for all I care you won't see very many people toning down their words and thoughts to please you.

[AP]

174. By criticizing it I'm perpetuating it?

And, psst, it's not a myth. Did you hear the laughter and cheers for the Dumbfuckistan joke on SNL that turned to embarrassed laughter and hisses for the trailer park chimney joke, and then dead silence for the tickle me elmo/incenst joke?

It's not a myth.

And I wouldn't have even commented on this at all -- I would have presumed that everyone got it the joke -- but then I saw so many posts here saying, "wasn't the dumbfuckistan joke funny? They're such dumbfucks in the south!"

It doesn't take balls to call southerners dumbfucks. It just takes a lot of stupidity. Using your energy to do that is counter-productive. There are way smarter ways to channel your energies.

I am not criticizing "energy." I'm criticizing strategy.

[Pachamama]

17. It showed how ignorant both sides can be...n/t

[AP]

22. No it didn't. It didn't say that dumbfuckistaners were dumb. It said that

people who saw America as us (blue) vs them (red) are dumb.

It criticized Rush, yes. But it didn't say that Santa was right about thinking any of the things that people are laughing about here at DU.

[bpilgrim]

30. looking at stats doesn't make you 'dumb'

but skewing the results does.

heres a more accurate map...


maybe we can get the dummies in the media to push this instead, but i doubt it.

:hi:

peace

[AP]

32. The cartoon was laughing AT Santa, not with Santa. Ho ho ho.

[bpilgrim]

40. ah... it was making fun of BOTH SIDES

i just watched the clip - thanks to an evil DU'er - and it pokes fun at both the left and the right, you must've not recognized the pig-man parody, watch it again.

:hi:

peace

[AP]

41. Actually, no. But it was pretty good advice to liberals: drop the Red v

Blue shit. Not only does it alienate people you should really want to help, it makes little girls in Blue states say, "this isn't the Santa Claus I believe in; I believe in a Santa Claus who loves everyone."

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[AP]

46. What does it matter who invented it? If you embrace it you're no better

than Rush or any RW'er who's embracing polarization from the other side.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[AP]

52. Do you realize that you're misquoting me?

I never said it's only liberals who are divisive. I never even said "it's liberals who are divisive."

I said this Smigel cartoon makes fun of liberals who are divisive. You even say that's what it's doing in (I believe post 47) -- you say it's making fun of both sides.

You agree with me, but you can't help yourself from going apoplectic over this issue.

Strange.

[Beetwasher]

53. Really? You Must Have A Short Memory

"People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right? I can't see the wingers crticizing that piece because it was actually making fun of liberals who don't want to reach out to them."

Unless that was some other AP impersonating you, that's exactly what you said. LOL! Now try to backtrack.

[AP]

55. And you say the same thing below:

It was criticizing people who divide America, whether they be Rush or Santa (who was representing liberals in this cartoon).

Now, it actually wasn't criticizing Rush explicitly for being divisive. It made a joke about how Rush was going to exploit liberals who think about the South as "dumbfuckistan", and then made a joke about him being on drugs. The message in that was that liberals better wake the fuck up because even a junky can turn liberal "Red vs Blue" BS into political hay for the RW.

But, I'll grant you the back story on this cartoon was that Republicans set up the R v B dichotomy. But the story was actually that liberals are stupid to take the bait.

[Name removed]

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[AP]

59. You need to settle down and think rather than just react.

How in the world is not being divisive and not insulting the very people whose lives you want to make better "giving in"?

The problem isn't that Rush can make fun of Democrats who call Red Staters "Dumbfuckistanis." The problem is that it's polarzing and is easy to exploit by people like Rush in a way that makes Red Staters mistakenly believe their political loyalites lie with billionaire junkies like Rush.

I don't care if you want to keep insulting me. But for your own sake, at some point before 2006, you need to take a chill pill, reread this thread, watch the video again, and see if the clue lightbulb over your head switches on.

[Beetwasher]

66. LOL! Yes, It Matters SOOO Much What I Do!

It's the damn LIBERALS who have to stop being so damn divisive ALL the time!!! Because we're just KNOWN for that, or are we known for being wimpy bleeding hearts??? Hmm, I just can't remember anymore.

Do you know how idiotic that is?

[AP]

68. You think "Dumbfuckistan" is a good strategy?

You know what liberals need to do more of? Attacking the policies that make life miserable for people in Red and Blue states.

You know what they need to do less of? Exacerbate the cultural divide that people like Rush feed on by calling Red Staters "Dumbfuckistanis."

Get it?

Could it be any more obvious?

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

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[AP]

72. I have no problem with people thinking it's funny.

But I think people who think Smigel thinks it's funny, or who are laughing at the cartoon because they think it's making fun of Red staters are clueless.

If you think it's funny, then don't be a hypocrite. Call Smigel an idiot for not understanding what an effective political strategy it is, because Smigel is prettly clearly satirizing people like you who think "Dumbfuckistan" is funny.

[Beetwasher]

74. How Stupid

It IS funny and Smigel is a comedian, and he used it because it's funny. Smigel is trying to make a funny cartoon, get it?

You need to get a sense of humor Chester.

The cartoon IS making fun of red staters, it's making fun of EVERYONE, remember? You contradict yourself with every other post. Get a clue.

[AP]

75. Oh, the cartoon is very funny -- but not for the reasons you think it is.

It's actually making fun of people like you -- people who want to exacerbate the R v B divide, which is what Rush dreams about when he's high.

What in that cartoon do you think made fun of red staters? Just give me one example of a joke at the expense of red staters.

The point of the cartoon is that it's wrong to make such broad categorizations of people based on what state they live in.

[Beetwasher]

78. Uh, That's Not What You Said

That's what you're saying now, but it's not what you said.

When you say "divisive liberals" that's a label Einstein.

"People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right? I can't see the wingers crticizing that piece because it was actually making fun of liberals who don't want to reach out to them."

There it is, in bold. Wingers aren't divisive? LOL!

[AP]

83. I am laughing so hard right now.

Should we list ALL the things that aren't in that post. I don't have a unified theory of quantum physics in that sentence either. You want to criticize me for not mentioning that too.

It's absurd to criticize me for what's not in that post, especially if there's not logical connection between what you're upset is missing and what's actually in that post.

That cartoon was making fun of santa for being a divisive liberal -- for taking the bait of people like Rush who live off a divided America. Celebrate your right to be divisive, beetwasher, but you have to accept the fact that doing that is easy to satirize, and is stupid too.

[Beetwasher]

85. People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right?

"People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right? I can't see the wingers crticizing that piece because it was actually making fun of liberals who don't want to reach out to them."

Those poor wingers. Icons of cooperation and compromise that they are! Always being thwarted by those evil, divisive liberals who ONLY look out for themselves and steamroll anyone who gets in their way! Yes! That's what the cartoon was about!! LOL!

[AP]

76. BTW, you're great at slapping labels on things. But have you ever tried...

...to weave together an argument based on facts?

You should give it a try. You might find it even more satisfying than the short term high you seem to be getting from hysterical labelling.

[Beetwasher]

79. "Divisive Liberals"

Sounds like a label, Einstein. :eyes:

Keep arguing yourself into corners, your good at that.

[AP]

84. The cartoon was laughing AT Santa, not with Santa. Ho ho ho.

Repeating that for emphasis.

Santa was being a divisive liberal in that cartoon.

And I wasn't labelling. I was making an argument. You can slap labels on me all you want, but until you support them with ann argument, they're just labels.

[Beetwasher]

87. And Santa Is Real?

Right?

They myth of the divisive liberal. Maybe NOW you're getting it.

When did you stop believing in Santa?

[AP]

90. Oh my god. This is gettting TOO funny.

You think that was Smigel's argument? You are the living example of what Santa was representing. Are you for real?

[Beetwasher]

93. I Am the Epitomy of the Big Bad Nasty Divisive Liberal That Is

Ruining this country! We run everything! LOL!

If only we would compromose with those bleeding heart right wingers! Everything would be just fine!

So stupid.

[Sterling]

111. That got the most applause from the studio audience.

The dumbfuckistan part. Repukes may not like it but it is what many people think of them and they have only themselves to blame.

[AP]

131. And by the end, they were embarassed. By the end they were doing more

thinking than laughing.

You know the part where Santa laughs at his own "Tickle me Elmo" joke? Where it all started to seem really tasteless, saying all southerners sexually asault their children. If you could compress the range of audience laughter into one laugh, that's what it would have been.

[Tsiyu]

140. I insult Repukes every time I drive

I'm talking In Your Face insults. Via the bumper sticker.

You know what? It makes people think. It makes them question what they believe. And you would be surprised at the people who smile and nod in an admiring way, glad that someone has the kahunas to state the truth.

We aren't in a grade school sandlot playing kickball. We are in a life and death struggle. Perhaps you don't think about the people in Iraq ( on both sides) every day as some of us do. Perhaps you don't grieve over those tortured at Abu Ghraib or incarcerated by the RNC during their National Convention in New York.

Perhaps you are delighted over the deficit and the economy and even more delighted over the dismantling of our reputation, our Constitution and our mission as a nation.

If you can play nice under those conditions, more power to you. But rights were not won here, nor were liberties secured, by playing nice.

I thought the skit was hilarious. My rage at Repukes has tempered slightly. But I feel that those who advocate "doormat" acquiescence are as bad as those who watch FUX news and think it's all about gays and fetuses, neglecting to face their guilt in the death of a hundred thousand in Iraq.

If you would negotiate with Hitler and those who followed him, that is your choice. My choice is to call a fascist a fascist, Smigel cartoon or no. Hitler didn't go down because the Allies were too afraid to stand up for what they believed in, or because the Allies thought "playing nice" would diplomatically solve World War II.

Think.

[Zhade]

154. I think you'd have a case if he had commas in there.

Example: "People realize that it was criticizing liberals, who divide America, right? I can't see the wingers crticizing that piece because it was actually making fun of liberals, who don't want to reach out to them."

As it stands, I think he's referring to only some liberals, not all.

[AP]

161. With the commas, that sentence doesn't make any sense.

You'd have to completely delete the clauses following your commas for the criticism to be remotely supportable.

In other words, I'm being criticized for something someone wishes I said rather than something I acutually said.

[Zhade]

170. That was the point, AP. I was *agreeing* with you.

NT!

[AP]

172. I was agreeing with you. Just repeating for emphasis.

:)

[Name removed]

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[AP]

45. The beetwasher doth protest too much. Your hysteria suggests that

maybe this cartoon hit a raw nerve.

The cartoon was laughing AT (not with) everyone who pushes the Blue vs Red, "we're X, they're Y" BS, and that includes Rush and it includes liberals who say Red staters are bigots and racists who believe in a god that doesn't exist and don't deserve presents on Christmas.

[Name removed]

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[AP]

51. Look into your heart, Beetwasher.

Look into your heart.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

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[AP]

61. The liberals I believe in don't divide America between Red and Blue.

The only thing that should be REALLY transparent is the argument Smigel is trying to make.

For some reason, to you, it wasn't at first. However, your post 47 suggests you might actually get it, but you're just unwilling to admit out loud that I was right.

That's OK. I don't need kudos. I'm just satisfied to see you say the truth about this cartoon in some form. Maybe sometime before 2006 you'll connect all the dots.

But if it makes you feel better today to insult me, go ahead. Get it out of your system.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[AP]

69. See post 62. That you have to invent arguments you think I made in order

to support your argument is very revealing.

[Beetwasher]

71. I'm Not Inventing Anything

What you wrote is there for everyone to see. It's quite clear. Now your backpedaling and saying something different. That's your problem.

[AP]

73. What do you think I'm saying that is different?

[Beetwasher]

81. People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right?

"People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right? I can't see the wingers crticizing that piece because it was actually making fun of liberals who don't want to reach out to them."

Wingers aren't divisive? It's the LIBERALS fault for not reaching out to them! LOL! Those poor wingers, always reaching out to us and being rebuffed!

How pathetic, but it's YOUR words, you have to live with it AND your dishonesty about it!

[AP]

92. This is so funny.

I agree with what I said.

The post to which that one replies said RW'ers are going to be outraged by that cartoon.

Fact is, they're not.

I'm afraid to ask you to answer this question because I know you're just going to follow it with some illogical non-sequitur as you have throughout, but here we go:

What do you think RW'ers would find outrageous in that cartoon?

What the other poster didn't understand was that Smigel was CRITICAL of Santa making the joke about trailer parks and "Dumbfuckistan." Only a RW'er as clueless as you wouldn't understand that. So, OK, some might not get the joke and be enraged. But the fact is, this was a satire aimed at Liberals trying to give them a clue that driving the cultural divide wedge is stupid.

I can't believe I have to keep repeating this.

[Beetwasher]

94. LOL! Really, They're NOT Outraged!!! LOL!!!!

Bwhahahahahahaahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

http://www.juiceenewsdaily.com/1204/news/red_states.html

[Sterling]

114. "I agree with what I said."

If that is not a Bushism I don't know what is.

[AP]

132. That's the best you have?

[2plus2]

157. where's the clip????

[Name removed]

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[AP]

16. ...between smart blue staters and dumbfuckistaners...between educated

liberals and people who live in trailer homes...between people who believe in god and people who believe in Santa.

The cartoon was making fun of Liberal Santa. (Duh.)

I can't believe you're saying the cartoon went over my head.

You think Smigel was saying Santa was smart and right? Santa couldn't even get straight the fact that Moby wasn't gay. Santa was supposed to be a joke.

[Beetwasher]

24. Smigel Was Just Making A Funny Cartoon

Yeah, it did go over your head...Your reading a whole level into it that wasn't there. :eyes:

The Dumbfuckistan map IS funny and Smigel thinks so to, that's why he used it.

[AP]

36. If that's what you need to believe, go ahead.

But you should know that Smigel was laughing at Santa and not with him.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[AP]

44. It was a series of jokes, that, when you put them together, is saying...

...something bigger than the sum of its parts.

If you don't want to believe that, that's OK. But trust me, that cartoon was NOT endorsing the "wisdom" of thinking of red states as dumbfuckistan.

How do you think that Smigel was laughing at "stupid people in the south"?

Just because Smigel was criticizing Rush doesn't mean he wasn't criticizing RvB attitudes (Rush is living off that sentiment just as much as dumbfuckistaning liberals).

[Name removed]

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[AP]

50. Get your story straight. In your second paragraph you say I was right.

What is your problem?

The cartoon was criticizing divisive liberals.

It is implicit that it is criticizing divisiveness, but it certainly didn't spend time explicitly crticizing conservatives who divide becuase that would be pretty easy. There are too many examples.

What it did do explicitly was explain -- using satire -- how liberals are no better than conservatives when they divide america with "dumbfuckistan" maps and be presuming everyone in the red states is against gay marriage, and by saying they all live in trailer homes.

It used Limbaugh to show how when liberals do that, it actually is quite easy to exploit by people like Limbaugh.

This was one of the least sublte pieces of political satire I've seen, but it's obvious that when liberals like you are being told that things that you're doing, which feel really good to do, are probably not only unhelpful in political sense, but are actually contrary to core liberal beliefs, you just get angry and refuse to see what's in front of your face.

This cartoon couldn't have been less subtle. Open your eyes. I'm sorry that I have to be the one to try to explain this to you, but you really shouldn't hate on me just because I'm stating what's obvious.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[Beetwasher]

60. Ummm, I Didn't "Come Around" You Did

"People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right? I can't see the wingers crticizing that piece because it was actually making fun of liberals who don't want to reach out to them."

That's you, right? The other side isn't divisive! If only we would just be open to their overtures of compromise! Damn liberals! So divisive all the time! Why, we're just KNOWN for our divisiveness! We don't roll over enough!

Stop taking the bait???? What should we do then, seek compromise w/ them? Yes, because they are so open to that.

[AP]

62. Oh, lord.

I wasn't trying to imply in that post that the right wing isn't divisive. Where in the world did you get that?

I can see from post 47, since you're admitting I was right, you need some shred of something to pretend that there was some rational objection to my first post. But look at yourself. You're just inventing things that aren't there. There was no justification for you going into hysteria-mode over that post.

If you want to keep doing this back-and-forth in a desperate attempt to save some face, I'll keep going too, but you're wasting your time.

And just so we know how much you've changed your argument, here's where we started with you:

" you're saying about this skit making fun of divisive liberals is the dumbest thing I ever heard. The ONLY people who think liberals are the divisive one's are fundy nutbags and bushbots who want to shove their morals and religion down everyone's throats and then call people who resist "divisive". So, because I resist having your religion and morals FORCED on me, I'm divisive? That's insane."

And here's where we finished:

"It was making fun of divisive idiots, period. Whether they be Rush Limbaugh or Santa Claus."

Now, what is it? Was it making fun of divisive liberals or not? Because at first you said that was the dumbest thing you ever heard, and later, you said that that's what it was doing.

{By the way. when you end an argument with "Period", generally that means that you shouldn 't be adding another clause to your argument.}

[Name removed]

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[AP]

80. Another label, unsubstatiated by facts. Can we get the rest of them out

of the way. Next you're going to say "that's a strawman argument." Then you'll say "What part of _____ don't you understand." Any others?

In your post up there, you say "then {I} saw {you} were right."

Huh?

When did I see that?

The cartoon is making fun of Santa for being divisive, and Santa is used to represent a kind of liberal that should be familiar to you...because it's you. Which is probably the reason you're having such a hard time connecting the dots.

[Beetwasher]

82. People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right?

"People realize that it was criticizing liberals who divide America, right? I can't see the wingers crticizing that piece because it was actually making fun of liberals who don't want to reach out to them."

Yes, I know it's stupid, but you wrote it. So, it's NOT making fun of the wingers right? That's why they would have no reason to criticize it, becaus they're NOT divisive, it's only the liberals, who refuse to reach out to those poor wingers. LOL! P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C

[AP]

89. Laughing very hard, again. I don't back down from any of that.

That's the argument I've been making throughout.

By the way, what was in that cartoon that RW'ers would criticize? "Dumbfuckistan"? Well, since the cartoon was critical of divisive labels like that, I'm not sure RW'ers are going to criticize the cartoon for pointing out something so obvious.

If I were a RW'er, the only thing I'd be worried about is that that cartoon would give people like you a clue, and you'd stop exacerbating the R v B divide and Democrats would win elections as a result.

Apparently, that's not a risk...with you at least.

[Beetwasher]

91. LOL!

Hey Einstein, they're already freaking out over it...

Yes, it's those nasty liberals exacerbating the divisiveness in this country!

You don't back down from that quote? That's funny, you already did by saying it's making fun of ALL divisiveness. In that quote, you say wingers would have nothing to criticize, that implies it's NOT making fun them, ONLY liberals. Make up your mind, Chester.

Do you still believe in santa claus?

[AP]

95. I know you know I'm right.

I can tell by your writing style.

[Beetwasher]

97. Right About What?

About Liberals ruining the country with their divisiveness? Yes, you're right, how could I have been so blind. :freak:

You can't even keep track of your own positions.

[HEyHEY]

126. You two are SO in love it's not even funny

;-)

[AP]

169. "Why don't you two just...

...dumbfuckistan!"

:)

[Sterling]

116. Yes I do agree with that. I think he made an attempt to please everyone.

In the process unfortunately he sacrificed painting a realistic picture of our political culture.

[AP]

134. Because you don't want to feel that you've been criticized.

If I had the hatred for the South that you display in some of your posts farther down, I'd be reluctant to interpret that cartoon as direct criticism of people who feel the way you do.

What parts of that cartoon do you think were his attempts to please liberals who hate red states?

[nascarblue]

34. You missed the point completely...relax NT

[Beetwasher]

38. No, I Didn't

You don't know what you're talking about.

[mzmolly]

88. I think it was criticial of being "over the top" ?

It criticized the Boycott Red States for Christmas "drive" and the Right Wing hatred of Brown People.

[AP]

96. The point of the cartoon is embodied in the little girl's statement...

...that the Santa she believes in doesn't divide people.

It's a criticizm of driving the cultural wedge, and it's saying that Democrats do it too, and it's even worse when Democrats do it because it contradicts what they say they stand for: the freedom to believe what you want, a desire to help people who are less fortunate (remember the comment about people in trailer parks?).

It was so much more than equal-opportunity crticism. It was making a much bigger argument.

[mzmolly]

99. Frankly, I thought the clip was humorous.

And, I felt the criticism was as much a parody on how the right wing portrays Liberals as it was about the actual so called hypocricy of "liberals" per-se.

For example to say "Liberals hate us because we love God" was just plain ridiculous LOL. I don't think any Right Winger with any sense at all believes that rhetoric in the slightest. However the average Limbaugh listener may?

Make sense? So if you believe that Liberals ARE what Limbaugh paints them/us to be, the clip might be considered offensive to US. If you KNOW the truth, it's just plain funny.

Additionally, I can actually have a sense of humor about my own flaws. For example I did think the "boycott the redstates" for Christmas drive was a bit much. I don't believe in punishing poor people anywhere because some may have voted for *.

So, Bravo to SNL for equal opportunity offensiveness.

[AP]

102. It's interesting that the kind of liberal Santa was supposed to be ...

... a parody of isn't so much one that Limbaugh tries to cast us as being, but was one that many DU'ers seem to embrace -- it's the kind of person who thought that the map was something Smigel was endorsing as funny when it was clearly something that he was criticizing (along with the "Red staters are 3% more racist" sort of thing).

In that cartoon, Santa was sitting around the table unselfconsciously mocking Red Staters for believing in God (when "Santa" is just as much something that depends on suspending your sense of disbelief). The "Liberals hate us because we love God" comment wasn't so much of a stand-alone characature of southerners as it was an extension of the conversation Santa was having in Chinatown.

And if you think exacerbating the R v B divide is just a flaw which we should laugh at every once in a while, but not consciously try to avoid, then that's a problem.

[mzmolly]

123. To be honest. The clip did not have my undivided attention and I viewed

once.

However, the greater points you mention were not lost on me, so I feel your being condescending?

I got a chucke or two while understanding that it was "parody."

Additionally, I read many freeper comments from those who are pissed off and felt it was a slam against "them."

It sounds like you thought very deeply about it? Uhm, frankly ... I didn't. Perhaps that's because I live in a blue state?

And, I shall continue to laugh HA HA HA. :hi:

[AP]

135. I read Malikin's blog: she had a knee-jerk criticism, and then RW'ers...

...wrote in and said that it was actually crticizing anti-Red State liberals. She backed off. She actually looked stupid.

Regardless of whatever other dumb RW'ers like Malkin think about the cartoon, it definitely was unambiguously critical of liberals who form their identity around cultural superiorty and hating red states and whot think Red State citizens are incestuous, poor and religious (in a pejorative sense -- or who think of 'religous' as a perjorative term).

The only question that remains is whether this is a fair characterization. Clearly, not all Democrats feel that way (I don't, and therefore wasn't offended in the least by the cartoon). But just look around here: so many DU'ers thought that Smigel was endorsing their Red State hatred. That's crazy. So you have to say that it's a fair characterization of some Democrats. The next question is whether Smigel was trying to suggest that ALL liberals feel that way, and I don't think there's any reason to believe that he was. Some RW'ers might want to interpret it that way, but I think that's absurd.

So what was the purpose of it? I think Smigel was using satire to warn Democrats not to play the Red vs Blue wedge game that Republicans want to play.

That's where Limbaugh's dream comes into it: that wedge game is what Limbaugh fantasizes about when he's high. Why do we want to give that junkie what he wants? We shouldn't.

[mzmolly]

143. We are in full agreement.

No, we don't want to be bigots ourselves and give RUSH Limbaugh his high.

:hi:

I honestly don't think most Liberals characterize "Redstaters" as the parody suggests. I live in Minnesota and we don't do so here. It's more of a *pity* thing. "Why don't they vote in their best interests." The most negative thought I have is that the Red State Bush supporters are "racist" and still fighting the "civil war." My critique has nada to do with anyone's "God."

[AP]

148. Surely you don't think any of those characterizations apply to ALL red-

staters?

[mzmolly]

150. OH My GAWD!

Re-read what I said woudja? I think I was clear? :eyes:

And as I stated in my first "sterio-type" I am more concerned that people don't vote in their best interest. NO! I don't think ALL RED STATERS ARE BIGOTS WHO ARE STILL FIGHTING THE CIVIL WAR for cripes sakes.

Get a grip AP! Your in desperate need of a chill pill.

Here ya go. :hi:

[AP]

151. Sorry got, pulled away from the computer...I hit post

rather than waited and finished.

The rest of what I was going to write was that the problem isn't about feeling those things so much as it is painting the entire south with one broad brush.

So, relax. I'm on your side. Sorry I didn't get to make the bigger point in the last post.

[mzmolly]

152. Nada problem.

I agree, bigotry is bigotry regardless of whether it's liberals perpetuating the "steriotypes" or not.

:hi:

[Sterling]

115. I agree that one of the main points was we should all just get along.

However as much as I like Smigel that is just a naive bunch of wimpy bullshit. Anyone who thinks it is liberals who are causing the cultural divide or "culture war" is very naive politically speaking. This does not surprise me as most people in the left of center really have a shallow understand of political events as they don't pay as much attention as people who are more interested.

The RW has a well funded core of die hards that have a clear understanding of the agenda and their place in it. We have mostly unfunded indie media types who understand what is going on but have little power to do anything about it because the middle left corpo types won't work with them.

I think it is hilarious that when the left actually does make an attempt to organize to fight back we are vulcanized for being divisive.

Honestly I could give a fuck what a Vichy Dem or a Freeper thinks of my opinion of them at this point. The thought of reaching out to our side has never crossed their minds.

[Liberty Belle]

128. It pokes fun at liberals and conservatives.

The skit called Bush voters narrow-minded bigots, or words to that effect. And the name Dumbf*kistan is hardly flattering to red state folks. Nor was the portrayal of Limbaugh done in anything remotely resembling a positive light.

I liked the moral about educating the dumb Bush voters with progressive reading materials.

[AP]

138. It was critical of liberals for dividing America Red Vs Blue and used...

...those two things as examples of stupid things people say about people in red states.

The Limbaugh scene was saying, look, this sort of division is what Rush dreams about when he's high -- he loves division.

I don't think anything suggested those kids too young to vote were Republicans, much less dumb or elligible to vote. But I guess you could argue that Smigel was saying, see, it's better to reach out to them with your ideas than to "fly over" them.

[Liberty Belle]

165. Yes. Wasn't there a line in there about not blaming the kids

because their parents are bigots?

[AP]

167. The only line about parents was when Moby told the Blue State girl

that her parents knew who he was. And the only lines about bigots was when Chao and Franken at separate moments called Red Staters bigots and the Blue State girl cried both times. So, it was obvioulsy critical of that sentiment.

The song at the end sounds like, "not every christian is crazy, not every actor is gay, not every sentator is _____, but it's fun to think that way."

So, the message isn't, "save the kids even if their parents are bigots." The message is don't make generalizations about people just because of where the live, what they do for a living, or how they voted or you're going to be the object of satire and called out for your folly.

[Neecy]

4. pretty funny stuff

I loved how Rudolph's nose changed from red to blue.

[heidiho]

11. Also loved the line "can't bring gifts to the red states because

trailers don't have chimneys!"

[AP]

19. The point of the cartoon was that that was a stupid thing to say.

[Sterling]

117. Maybe but everyone still laughed at it.

Because it's true? I did not hear the same kind of response when the moral of the story was played out. I think Smigel had to cheese put at the end because he has to keep his job. So don't go pissing yourself trying to use this funny cartoon to preach at us.

[AP]

137. You have got to be kidding me.

You think that smigel wouls have stopped the cartoon at the scene where they joke about Rudolph's nose turning blue but for pressure from NBC?

The Moby joke in Chinatown, the Tickle Me Elmo Joke -- Smigel was skewering mean Santa in the second scene. That cartoon would have meant NOTHING if it were just the first scened. Everything after that scene made the cartoon about something, and clearly that something was about Liberals falling into the Red vs Blue trap that the RW is setting for them.

Just look around you in the last week. The media is hammering home R v B and the culture wars, and here was Smigel saying, "Don't do it liberals -- it might feel good now, but you're going to regret it in the morning."

[Pachamama]

18. I thought that was great....Rudolph the blue nosed reindeer...n/t

:bounce:

[readmylips]

8. Robert DiNero was Great....

I never watch SNL but there was nothing else on and just loved it. They even called georgie. Hitler Mason Bush

There was a presentation of the bible-gun carrying religious shooting it out using the bible as a smoking gun. There was another scene of some guy making comments about rush limpball's drug addiction. In the background, there were photos of hannity, rush, falwell, o'reilly, etc.

I said to my self: SNL will be canceled. The religious nuts running th is country will murder them.

[Pachamama]

20. Nah, money talks...SNL makes a lot of money & loyalty for NBC...they will

take the "hits" as they always have and then keep on....

[BiggJawn]

12. Greetings from "Dumbf*ckistan"!

I'll tell Santa what I tell the self-rightous Blue-State "Liberals" here at DU:
Lick my Scrote.

[mzmolly]

144. LOL.

Uhm, yum? Cajun seasoning? :P

[BiggJawn]

156. Nope.

Good ol' Hoosier popcorn seasoning....:P

[Loki]

13. Did he use this map?

[maxsolomon]

14. thats the one.

as GYWO said last week, "don't condescend to the red states; it will somehow make them MORE BACKWARDS".

fuck that.

by 2008 history will cram the swing voter's folly down their selfish, myopic throats. they'll be begging liberals to forgive them.

[bpilgrim]

27. heres a more accurate map

peace

[Cobalt Violet]

155. Yes that one.

[BrklynLiberal]

25. Actually..no blue states..no red states..only bush voters, and non-

bush voters. There were bush voters in "blue states" and kerry voters in "red states". Generalizations, generally, tend to be useless.

[SeattleRob]

26. the clip is here

I found this news story with a link to the clip - Here you go!

http://www.juiceenewsdaily.com/1204/news/red_states.html

[bpilgrim]

29. thank you!

been dying to see that.

so, it was a bash against liberals after all, as well. oh well, we're certainly used to that by now and thats certainly more like the SNL we've come to know since 911 but at least we got another sound-byte to bash the ignorant pukes who voted for the fascist and happen to live in a red state DUMBFUCKINSTAN - lol

now, for all those who want a more accurate map to show to their bush loving friends try this...



peace

[Sleepless In NY]

31. SeattleRob TY! We have to learn to laugh at ourselves

Think the clip makes fun of both sides, although I must admit I loved seeing "Jesusland" renamed! LOL! And Rush lying on his bathroom floor stoned. All that was missing was O'Reilly, his vibrator & falafel! Read the news story too, and couldnt get over the guy's indignation, that's what scariest of all. Has everyone lost their sense of humor? It's like you can't even dare to bring up some subjects and make fun of them. Why not? Don't think the clip was favorable to either side, but it was as funny as hell anyways.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

63. Link doesn't currently work because bandwidth exceeded. n/t

[mtnsnake]

33. SNL absolutely SUCKS

with the exception of a rare laugh every now and then.

They haven't been funny for years; their writers are lame; and they've been WAY too easy on the fucking chimp and his minions.

[AP]

65. Smigel is always funny, however. Last year's parody of Charlie Brown

was very funny. It was the same message: a criticism of the commercializatioin of Christmas, but updated for the 21st century.

It was very funny.

[Shrubhater]

86. WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??

THAT'S JUST WRONG!!!:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

[Sterling]

118. Yes SNL has been ass for years now.

The only rerason it is still respected is because everything else on network is even worse.

[Boosterman]

Hmmm

what do you call something that manages to irritate both the far left and the far right?

[AP]

64. It's called "good advice."

The target audience for this piece of satire wasn't the RW.

This piece of satire was supposed to open the eyes of liberals who are under the illusion that they can get political mileage out of insulting people who live in red states.

[Beetwasher]

98. Yes, Because We See How Using Divisiveness Has Backfired On Bush!!

Oh, wait, he's not divisive, right? Just principled, in your opinion, I'm sure.

It's us nasty liberals who are the divisive one's and with our control of all branches of government and media, our divisiveness can only backfire on us.

"Thank you sir! May I have another!" :freak:

[AP]

100. You're not trying to engage in a discussion. You're just badgering.

I get it. You think I'm stupid. Why do you feel the need to keep repeating it?

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

103. What's driving you to say everything I say is stupid?

I mean, all your posts are bascially just insults.

What are you trying to do?

[Beetwasher]

106. I Didn't Say Everything You Say is Stupid

What drives me? Lot's of things. Countering bullshit is one of them.

You see, when you say "Liberals are divisive" you are perpetuating a myth and doing the job of Rush Limbaugh etc. I will counter that whenever I see it. I don't see Dem leaders or Liberal leaders running around using the Dumbfuckistan map. I don't see our leaders perpetuating the divisiveness that YOU say Liberals are guilty of. I do see some people on DU doing it, but so what? We are not the official face of Liberalism or the Democratic party. I DO see the Icons of Rightwing lunacy AND prominent members of the Republican party perpetuating the most vile divisinveness and hate on a regular basis. For you to equate what some people (or liberals) do on this website (or on the web in general or wherever) to the actions of the officials in the Republican party and their OFFICIAL positions is bullshit and I call you on it.

Divisiveness is NOT the official strategy of Democrats or Liberals. It IS the official strategy of Republicans and is perpetuated by their leaders, including Bush himself. I see absolutely nothing equitable in any way, shape or form on the "left" to the institutionalized hate and divisiveness that comes from the "right".

You would have us believe otherwise and implore Liberals to learn some sort of lesson about divisiveness. If we were to learn any lesson about divisiveness, we should look to those who utilize it the most. If we do that, we would actually see that apparently, it works. Personally, that doesn't make any difference to me, I for one DON'T believe the Dems (or Liberals) should use it as "official" political strategy, or at least not in the same manner the Republicans do.

I will say that it IS time to put away "Mr. Nice Guy" and to also put away the "Thank you sir! May I have another" type of victimhood attitude. It seems to me that you would have us continue in that mentality and even more so in order to not be "divisive". I say, fuck that. If you are insulted by the Dumbfuckstan map, all I can say is, too fucking bad. It's funny, and it has it's place as does all humorous ridicule.

[AP]

107. It is divisive for liberals to continue to drive the R v B wedge.

Forge all this "perpeutating the myth" stuff. That's not the issue here. Do you think Smigel was perpetuating a myth? Look around DU. What he was criticicizing happens every day at DU. In fact, so many DU'ers are so deep into that mindset that they thought Smigel was agreeing with them and refuse to appreciate that the cartoon was criticizing it.

Why do you chose to insult me personally when I'm just stating facts about Smigel's cartoon?

[Beetwasher]

110. Facts? Really?

Obviously, I dispute your "facts" about Smigel's cartoon. Humor is subjective. Obiviously, you got something different from it than I did.

I don't think Smigel's agrees or disagree's with DUers. I think he's a comedian who was taking a concept to the extreme to make it funny and in the process took shots left and right. That's it and it's not so hard to understand.

Why is it that you think it's the liberals driving the R vs. Blue wedge? So, if Liberals stopped driving this wedge, what would happen? Would the Right stop driving the wedge, or do they not do that to begin with? Again, I see you blaming the victims. You DO know what the "southern strategy" is don't you? Now tell me, where did that wedge come from an who's driving it?

I don't see a single Dem or Liberal leader driving this wedge. I DO see this wedge as official Republican strategy. So, what's your point?

[AP]

112. You are the proof.

Smigel's cartoon echoed things some people say at DU. Dumbfuckistanl. Trailer parks. Fuch the south. They're all incestuous. It's stupid to believe in god.

If the Democrats stopped manifesting those feelings, you know what might happen? Demcorats might win a few more votes in "Dumbfuckistan."

It's not the liberals who are driving the wedge alone. Theh RW is holding the wedge in place and begging the "Fuck the South" people to drive it home. They take some swings at it too. But that doesn't mean we should be suckers for those tricks.

(BTW, thank god Dem leaders aren't so stupid that they'd reaffirm any of those stereotypes. But the rank and file has certainly embraced them -- search "fuck the south" here at DU.)

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

160. sat·ire (noun)

1. a. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.

b. The branch of literature constituting such works. See Synonyms at caricature.

2. Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.

OK. The cartoon is funny because it is about a folly, vice or stupidity that exists here at DU. Have you searched for "fuck the south" threads, or the anti-religious threads, or have you reread your or Stirling's posts?

Those examples you give -- stripping gays of civil rights, etc -- none of those things were done by ALL southerners. Yet a lot of DU'ers are perfectly content to characterize the entire south as thinking like that, and want to write off the entire south.

Dumbfuckistan is real, in that it represents an attitude that people actually have -- that got a huge laugh and cheer on SNL when people thought that that was what the cartoon was going to be about, but it only took a few more seconds before the audience hissed at the trailer park joke because be then they realized that they weren't supposed to cheer the Dumbfuckistan joke. The audience was trying to redeem itself. Nobody laughed at the tickle me elmo incest joke, because by then they were thinking hard about why they laughed at the Dumbfuckistan joke.

At DU, it looks like some people are thinking hard about why they laugh at the Dumbfuckistan jokes. They're just trying to make excuses for why the laugh at them. They say that they laugh becuase it isn't real (but their laughter sort of proves it's real). Then they totally contradict themselves by saying they laugh because the Dumbfuckistanis are racists who deny "blacks the right to vote and force christianity on everyone, etc."

At that point, I'm just thinking, "I REST MY CASE."

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sterling]

179. Democrats will never win Dumbfuckistan

Not at this point. Winning Dumbfuckistan is not something many progressives feel is worth sacrificing our beliefs for. If Dumbfuckistan wants to go back to the days of slavery and pre New Deal econ, then it seems there is little us in the blue states can do to stop them. I suggest you work harder to convince these people they are wrong rather than convincing them that you are just like them.

I certainly won't pretend their view are not offensive to make them happy.

Again take a look at the RW media. They seem to be doing pretty well in your area and all they do is preach hate. So you are trying to tell us that we should take the opposite tactic? How will that help us?

The RW media has fundamentally changed how people in the south and other places look at the world. That is where the battle is friend. Not in staying above the fray.

I hope you can realize this, it will make you more effective in turning your red state back to blue. So far your way has gotten us jack shit.

[AP]

181. I believe almost every Red State either currently has or imediately

prior to the current office holder, a Democratic governor or at least one Democratic senator.

There's nothing inherrant in the Red States that prevents them from voting for Democrats. Clinton was incredibly competitive in the south, for example. And you don't have to abandon your principles to win in those states. You just have to be smart about how you campaign.

The problem for Democrats isn't structural or demographic. The problem is when they either run a NE liberal who doesn't compete in the south (as a matter of choice) or they're running against a Republican who does make a concerted effort to appeal to the south, or a combination of both.

And the Red States DO NOT want to go back to the days of slavery. I mean, that's not even ironic. A pretty huge % of the loyal democrats in those states are descendant's of slaves and it's idiotic to abandon them as Dumbfuckistanis. I don't doubt that a lot of red staters have crazy ideas about race. But so do a lot of DU'ers. But red staters, just like DU'ers, can be persuaded with reason, and not by hatred.

[Sterling]

122. It's funny you go on as though SNL and NBC are platforms for Smigles

Political views and that the work was done more as an attempt to influence the rhetoric of leftists than it was an attempt to make money for NBC?

Are you sure you really understand how the media works? Are you stuck in Dumbfuckistan where you don't have access to a lot of information not approved by Clear Channel/Gannet/Murdoch media?

[AP]

133. What in the world are you trying to say?

Rather than try to insult me, why don't you just say what you think it's all about?

[Sterling]

176. I thought I was pretty clear.

Read it again.

[Boosterman]

35. sorry double post

locked up on me

[HughBeaumont]

37. "The Santa I know doesn't divide anyone"

Beautiful clip. But I think Bush voters are still really fucking retarded nonetheless.

Hell, if he divided, technically my kid wouldn't be getting any gifts either (Ah-High-Ah). :shrug:

[Sterling]

121. Beautiful but totally naive.

The fact is we are a divided country and it was not us that did it anymore than it was the slaves who made the south secede. This "culture war" is not of our making and in fact it is not much of a war at all. It is more of a massacre.

In an effort to play both sides SNL toke some cheap shots at the few people who still try to stand in the way of our collective rush to eternity in hell.

[AP]

139. You're not going to win that war by refusing to reach out to ANYONE in a

Red state.

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

[Sterling]

104. Kinda great but not really

He portrayed the anti fundie crowed as simply hating fundies because the believe in god.

Moby is a douche bag but lets be real. We don't hate the fundies because they believe in god. Many of us believe in god, we just know W is not Jesus reincarnate.

[AP]

108. We hate them because we think we're better, smater, and know the truth

and that they don't, and we don't mind making incredibly broad generalizations about them in order to feel better about ourselves.

Our enemy is not the people who live in Red States. It's the ideas and the politicians which drive people who live in Red States to vote against their best interests.

We should hate ourselves for insisting on hammering away at the R v B wedge which people like Rush hold in place, begging us to swing at.

We're defeating ourselves by calling everyone who lives in a Red State a Dumbfuckistani.

We're the Dumbfucks if we do that.

We got to figure out who the REAL enemy is, or we're just going to be cogs in the right wing spin machine, just like the people who live in Red States.

[cry baby]

113. I, too, believe that the red v. blue perpetuates the "elite v.

just plain folks" wedge. I believe that is partly why we lost votes. It's not good for us in the long run to carry on with this red state/blue state thing. I live in a red state, lots of dems and progressives do, we aren't in dumb....istan.

Thanks bpilgrim for the accurate r v b map!

[Sterling]

120. Maybe that is why you hate them but not me

Speak for yourself son. I hate them for a variety pf complex reasons. But mostly I hate them because I know them, and I know what the are motivated by and most of all I know what they are trying to do.

I see through them. I could have just as easily been one of them. I understand the fear and hatred that is in the core of their belief system and I refuse to go along and pretend it does not exist.

You may not yet realize it. You may never understand it but you are doing yourself and your country a great disservice when you ask those of us with the balls to stand up to these people to tone it down.

Toning it down is not what got Repukes control of Dumbfuckistan. It was red hot rhetoric that inspired people to forsake logic and decency to worship power and greed.

[AP]

130. I don't hate them at all. But man, you sure do! Do your really think that

every Red stater deserves that hatred you just described?

[Sterling]

175. I think you are trying to have a problem

That is too bad. Your state is red. Sorry it's true. Does that mean you are a bad person? No. Does it mean it's your fault, no, not entirely. Is the anger toward the red states directed at you personally, no. Do you act as if it is? Yes.

It's like being white. Not every white person is responsible for slavery or segregation but It certainly is something that is part of the history of white America. No sense trying to get around it and no sense getting all hot and bothered when people refer to the days that whites treated blacks like property.

Am I personally responsible for it, no. Do I get offended when it is pointed out to me and take it personally ,no.

Face it you are a decent person living in a society dominated by dumb fucks. I feel sorry for you, not angry at you. Give the drama a rest and get off the cross. We have enough of that from the fundies without or own people resorting to the same shit.

Don't like living in a red state? Make it blue.

Consider this for a moment. Bush and crew have waged illegal aggressive war with the power of our military, gov, and tax dollars. Do you think the Iraqi's give a fuck if you voted for Bush personally or not when the consider the actions your country has taken in their country.

Face it we are all responsible for what our governments do in our name, be it local or federal.

Your state spoke in support of these things. It is the will of the majority of your nieghbors. I am sorry that you have to live with them but If you cannot stop them from getting power you enjoy the results of their actions just as much as they do in the sense that it is YOUR democratic process that enabled it.

[AP]

182. Why do you think region-, race-, nationality-, religion-based

bigotry is the first step to convincing the victims of bigotry to change their government?

When has that ever worked?

What's your model.

You're saying that Democrats have to reject and revile a huge part of America as a first step to convince them all to change the way they vote. Right. I would never vote for a party that was that stupid (and the stupid think is to make such broad uninformed generalizations about people based merely on the fact of their state citizenship).

That's certainly not the strategy that has motivated southerners to vote for Democrats on other parts of the ballot (or vor the top of the ticket in '92 and '96) in the last 10-12 years.

[cry baby]

142. Why can't you say you hate Bush voters, not red staters? n/t

[AP]

166. Now, wouldn't that be smart! Wouldn't that be exactly the way NOT to play

out this election according to the scrpit that RW'ers like Rush would like to see it play to!

Even better, why don't we not hate people who happened to vote against their best interests and just hate the people who lied to them in order to get them to vote that way!

Do people hate all Germans who supported Hitler? Or do they hate Hitler and fascism for being able to manipulate people so effectively?

[Sterling]

177. Good point , Germany as a whole enjoyed the fruits of Hitlers work

Think about it. Regardless of how you personally feel about it your state chose to support the eveil deeds of the RW. For that matter we all live in Dumbfuckistan to the rest of the world. You just live in it's heart.

[Boosterman]

184. Interesting

thats twice you have referred to the Rwers and how they have managed to succeed in winning converts. Do you think we need to emulate them?

[mzmolly]

124. Your taking the parody much too seriously AP. I never liked the idea

of a so called Red State boycott and I frankly thought it was started by the RW just to pull some shit. Also, the entire operation seemed pretty rinky dink anyhow and thankfully, it seemed to lack much interest.

That said.

Of course I and others here support reaching out to people in Red States, heck we have many DU-ers here who live in such states. And, we supported the man in your avatar along with Bill Clinton who are "dumbfuckistani's" ... remember?

And, you can bet your ass our next nominee will be from a Red State.

So *sheesh* lighten up man. :hi:

[Sterling]

125. Progressives are prisoners in Dumbfuckistan.

By now they should understand that and understand we know that. If they insist on being offended when we acknowledge that they live in some fucked up places then maybe they are dumbasses.

[cry baby]

127. I'm not offended that you say I'm a prisoner in dumb**ckistan -

but just to let you know, I am not living here in chains, rather, I love my state and where I live. I have lots of dem friends that aren't prisoners either. I choose to live here. I don't believe that makes me a dumbfu**istani.

The general perception of the south is that everyone down here is stupid, toothless, or (women are)barefoot and pregnant by our beer-drinking, pick-up driving husbands with the gun rack in the back window with the bumpersticker that says "You can have my guns when you pry them out of my cold dead hand". This is not true, although there is some of that here in Tennessee. People in Texas (I lived there for 30 yrs.) don't all ride horses either.

Don't fall prey to stereotypes or perpetuate generalizations. The only dumbfu**astanis are the ones that voted for *.

[Sterling]

129. Look at my avatar.

I am sorry but my home state is very much part of Dumbfuckistan. If I were to live there still I would very much be persecuted and subject to the whim of the local Talibornagain officials.

You are not in chains but you certainly don't have any power and must submit to the wishes of the leaders of Dumbfuckistan.

He before you know it we will all be living in Dumbfuckistan, In a very real way we are because our "Leader" is the head Dumbfuck in charge.

Be proud of what there is to be proud of and acknowledge the things you know are unjust. I would really stay clear of regional pride at this point anyway, it really reeks of the old south.

[cry baby]

141. Right now, at least, Tn governor is Dem.

You are right about feeling powerless, I do. But it's not because of living in Tn. I am not persecuted here. It's because I'm living in this pResident's reign of terror.

Just a note about the "old south", until the civil rights era, the south was predominately democrat. The "good ol' boys" (white men) didn't like the democrat position with regard to integration. Since Eisenhower, the white men have turned to the republican party.

Sterling, we are mostly in agreement.

[Sterling]

162. Yes were are in agreement

I still love my home state but I have to admit right now it's political influence is being used for bad purposes. Thus the "red state" anger.

[Lorien]

147. Living in (stolen) dumbf*ckistan state of Florida

and, sorry to say, but stolen or not, the state deserves the title!

As for "red state boycotts"; check out the "economic activism and progressive living" forum in DU groups. A lot of RW products and services are listed for the boycott, but none of us have listed any STATES. Targeted boycotts against those that feed the GOP machine are the only way to have an impact, and everyone pretty much seems to understand that here.

[Hatalles]

136. Clip was created by Bent Image Lab.

www.bentimagelab.com

They're getting a lot of requests for the clip -- I read on a blog they're in the process of putting it up, but someone might want to send them a quick e-mail to double-check... that is, if they're not being flooded with them already.

[Razorback_Democrat]

145. I actually thought it made the liberals in the video look stupid!

It painted them as God hating, country hating, elites who don't care about people in Red states. Frankly I'm tired of this red state blue state shit.
Most states were some shade of purple. Blue concentrations tended to be in urban areas and red in rural areas. In all states this is true.

As someone who lives in a Red state, but is a lifelong democrat and will continue to be one, I resent the anger at the South, or rural America. The term "flyover states" is insulting, and I think that this SNL Smigel video just makes the liberals in it look bad,

JMO

[Sterling]

149. I think that was the point

He was playing the whole "look people who take politics seriously are all stupid" routine. It sells on the MS and encourages people to feel apathy is in and activism is out.

It sucks being a rational person in Dumbfuckistan. Unfortunately the rest of the world thinks our whole country is Dumbfuckistan not just the red states. Byt come on dude places like Ark and OK are very fucked up politically speaking. It's not all your fault, don't take it personally.

[osaMABUSh]

153. Link to Clip is here

http://jlgolson.blogspot.com/

Right click on 'here it is' then save or open. Plays fine in QuickTime.
Look for the entry:

"
SNL
I got a copy of the SNL skit about Rush Limbaugh entitled 'Blue Christmas' originally from Wes Roth (by way of Michelle Malkin).

Here it is. (6.6MB .mov file).
"

[Yuugal]

159. Did you see him at the debates?

Triumph was ripping the hell out of both sides. I think the guy's point is just that both sides make serious bank on the whole division thing and that it is really hurting the country.

I had fun hating the south these last 2 months but I'm willing to let it go. Its not going to make us any new friends. There are still red states and blue states in my mind. I don't think the dems will be winning Wyoming or Utah anytime soon but most of the states are purple and up for grabs if we can only get our message out about economic fairness and a living wage. We need to stop getting hijacked by other social issues that can be easily dealt with after we win but aren't good campaigning points.

My opinion is that the reps won because they gave people a chance to vote with their wallet and then act like they voted for moral, religious, or patriotic motives. The dem party has to stay on message about the benefits of taking care of the middle class and stop getting distracted by god, gays, guns, unions, minorities, the environment.....and hating the south. After we win, the other issues will be handled just fine by all the newly elected progressives.

The only issues for me until we turn this slide around are a living wage, health care for all, and saving SS. We need focus.

[Sterling]

180. stop getting distracted by god, gays, guns, unions, minorities, the enviro

So what should we stand for. I am not willing to give up any of these issues to please the Dumbfucks in Dumbfuckistans. They can deal with the real Jesus after they die., I for one will not have to explain why I hated gays and blacks and worked to detroy the world.

They on the other hand......

[AP]

183. Who are "they"?

And why do you define the democratic party according to atheism, gun control, civil unions, "minorities" and the environment?

I think there's a bigger umbrella theme that connects all those identity-political issues and which should appeal to all Americans.

It's that power -- economic, political and cultural -- should flow down to the people, and should be spread broadly. That's a message that shouldn't be an anathema to red state citizens, and once they see that the democratic party stands for that big idea, and not for a bunch of disparate seemingly unconnected ideas, not only will it be harder for Republicans to drive wedges, but it will be easier for red staters to vote Democratic because they believe in what the party stands for.

And the thing about developing that message is that it's exactly the same message Democrats need to hone to win big in the blue states too. Cut out the red states from your strategy and run an indentity-politics campaign that has no logical coherence, and you're going to discover that it will be harder and harder to win in CA, MI, PA, NH, MA, MN, WI, WA, and OR, and soon the Democrats will be left with nothing.

You know it's true.

[Boosterman]

185. So what are your positions on guns?

Minorities? Unions? etc?

You do realize that there are a variety of opinions on each of these subjects in the democratic party right?

One other thing can you explain to me your position on your premise that "dumbfuckistanis" all hate gays and blacks?

[Yuugal]

186. you missed my point

I'm not asking anyone to give up their beliefs. I'm just saying we should concentrate on the issues that get us votes: living wage/health care for all. All the other stuff can easily be dealt with once we are in power.

[AP]

187. And the issues we should concentrate on (& the frame) are just

as appealing to people in the south as the are to people everywhere else.

[rbnyc]

168. I told my son that Santa was skipping the red states.

Of course, he's only 3 months old.

:evilgrin:

[Coltrane]

171. SNL Video available

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2004/12/20.html#a1114 if it wasn't posted already!

[Name removed]

178. Deleted message

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