Mountain out of Mole Hill - Pregnant Homicide Victims

[bleedingheart]

Sorry but am I the only one who thinks this story is just the latest attempt by the media to divert our attention???

According to the Post a little over 1300 women were killed while pregnant...over a 14 year period. Okay it sounds bad but...there are 280 MILLION people living in the US and many thousands are killed each year whether they are pregnant or not.

It is sad when any one is killed, whether they are a kid who is shot in a drive by shooting; or a woman killed by her husband who isn't so keen on raising a kid; or a man who is shot during a robbery....but because the woman is pregnant it becomes so tragic...well it's tragic when anyone is killed!!!!

I wanna know what the SECOND leading cause of maternal death is...perhaps it is lack of decent healthcare that leads to maternal death??...but you won't hear about that because that is just too boring.

In closing I feel bad for any family that loses a loved one to homicide, but I think that the media is just playing the public for fools once again.

Note to all guys and gals out there...if you are in an abusive relationship..get help and get out.. and please use protection if you have sex...unwanted pregnancies do not make a bad relationship better.

[Not_Giving_Up]

1. What really got me was...

When they found the baby in Kansas, FauxNews.com reported that the baby "matched the description" of the missing fetus. Were they comparing the child to ultrasound photos??

[bleedingheart]

6. I know...it is all so ludicrous..

the woman who killed that mother is clearly unbalanced and it is a tragic situation that is getting blown out of proportion.

What bothered me was the MSNBC quote from some person who said.."..things like this don't happen here..it's supposed to be in NY or LA"....what is that all about...creepy stuff happens all the time in "middle america" but the press has brainwashed them into thinking they are America's Chosen...

[FizzFuzz]

20. 'scuse my cynicism, but I'm surprised media quote wasn't "revamped"

to say "things like this don't happen here--they only happen in Blue states."

grrr.

Great thread, thanks.

[ProfessorGAC]

30. Hey, We Had An Abduction And Murder In Small Town Midwest

About 10 blocks from where live. Small town, 5000 people, at the fringe of where Chicagoland becomes central Illinois. Involved sexual molestation, murder, faking an abduction, etc.

So, it DOES happen in middle america. I know for sure it does, since i live there, and this happened where i live just this past summer.
The Professor

[imax2268]

43. this is the media's

new Lacy Peterson case...

[Warpy]

2. yes and no

You bet it's a sensationalized, lurid story that has gotten more play than it deserves. However, the most common cause of death for pregnant women is homicide, usually by the father of the fetus, a guy who just doesn't want to get trapped.

This one is turning out to be a little embarrassing for the dumb jerks in the White House, since the perp is once again a good Christian (fundy) woman who went bonkers.

That should be the real story, about how creating heaven on earth for fundy men creates hell on earth for the women around them and a lot of them snap and do horrible things.

[bleedingheart]

13. but it still isn't that common...

if approximately 140 pregnant women are killed each year...that isn't really a lot in comparison to the general population. As for leading cause of death...well to be honest the leading cause of death for many women used to be pregnancy not so long ago.

[Mandate My Ass]

18. Not Common???? It is the NUMBER 1 CAUSE OF DEATH

of pregnant women in this country.

That means we have a huge and ignored epidemic of violence against women in the US.

Funny how those who are first argue that women who find themselves pregnant must take responsibility for their actions are the first to excuse men for the terrible violence perpetrated against the people whom they should be protecting at all costs.

Female life sure is held cheaply, even around here. That is the unreported story behind all the hype and the cavalier attitude about that issue truly sickens me.

[bleedingheart]

31. I am not excusing anyone but where are the comparison stats?

As a woman I find this coverage sickening because all of a sudden pregnant women are more important than non-pregnant women who are killed by spouses or boyfriends.

But I don't really think there is anything we can do to fix this that we already don't do. We have shelters for abused women, counseling for pregnancy, counseling for men....but sadly some men decide to kill their girlfriend/wife rather than pay for child support. It is disgusting but it isn't something we already don't know.

I think that all homicide is horrible.

By the way, I know a family that just lost their 19 year old son in a shooting that was most likely drug related...that was sad too.

[BlueEyedSon]

32. Since when does "#1" mean "common"?

It just means "more often that #2"....

[Mandate My Ass]

38. I'm glad that distinction makes you feel comfortable

about the fact that so many women are murdered by the man who impregnated them.

As long as it's not a majority of them or most of them, it's OK that it's number one.

No need to address this unless it gets really out of hand. :eyes:

[BlueEyedSon]

44. Hey I'm all for sex ed, birth control and legal-safe-cheap abortions

if that helps those poor suffering women.

Maybe they shouldn't copulate with sociopathic neanderthals, too.

[Mandate My Ass]

62. "Maybe they shouldn't copulate with sociopathic neanderthals"

So they had it coming, eh?

Sociopathic neanderthals don't have any distinctive physical characteristics and they don't show their true colors until they're sure they have the upper hand in the relationship. Maybe you should read up on that issue. It might do you good.

[BlueEyedSon]

65. Anyway, unless there is some more analysis & disclosure

I have no confidence that the media is actually reporting something newsworthy here.

BTW, it wasn't the boyfriend/husband this time... maybe a new trend?

[FizzFuzz]

41. I wanted to clarify my above post

because you raise the point of violence against all women. When I said above that this is a great thread, that's because I read it as relating to this issue. Violence against women is a huge issue and victims deserve justice whether or not their bellies were full. I too am disgusted by the Christofascist ripples affecting how society views white pregnant women as more deserving of outrage and justice. And how men in the highly repressive ChristianCult world are excused for their part in the oppression.

I'm rambling a little, but I really agree with your post and some other posts here too.

Of course, the more bizarre a story, the more the media salivates.

[Solly Mack]

3. It's an attempt to make it all about the fetus

these folks don't give a damn about the women murdered

[elehhhhna]

8. Slow down. The #1 killer of pregnant American women is murder.

The numbers look small because there are only a few states tracking this. A further study was done and apparently you're more likely to die at the hands of your SO while pregnant than from any other factor.

An excellent reason to keep abortion safe & legal.

[Solly Mack]

10. Yes, I know and that's been the case for years upon years

but it's only in this era of "a fetus is a person" that it gets significant media attention

I've volunteered in abuse shelters for years and this country hasn't been all that concerned over the years. Oh, it'll show up as a "stat"....but in terms of actual help? Uh...not exactly forthcoming.

[Wilber_Stool]

25. I'm not looking to get flamed here but

everyone is more likely to be killed by a member of their own family.

[elehhhhna]

good point. add hormones, pressure, and a less-than-stable relationship

and VOILA!

People just go mental.

[elehhhhna]

67. oops double post

.

[BrklynLiberal]

29. THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE HYPOCRISY BEHIND THESE

"RIGHT TO LIFE" people. The moment that child leaves the womb they could not care less about it or the mother(no health-care, no food, no education, etc, etc).......and they did not care that much about the mother at any point since they are not so hot about providing prenatal health care!!!

[Solly Mack]

47. Yep

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. This was so bad because

of the way the baby was cut out of the mother.

That makes it several degrees worse than killing a pregnant woman.

[bleedingheart]

9. yeah it is a gruesome crime...but there are others like it as well

here in PA a guy bludgeoned his twins with a sledgehammer (there were about 3 or 4) and then "came to his senses" and called the police to turn himself in...

that was gruesome too...

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Just because

other similar crimes don't get this kind of publicity doesn't mean we should criticize the publicity this crime got. Or Laci's death. Imagine if the media did not cover these kinds of stories at all. Then folks would never know they happen. And that would be worse, IMO.

[bleedingheart]

14. actually I don't really want to know all these stories...personally

I prefer to see some uplifting stories, nice stories about good deeds...but nope the media is just providing blood and gore non stop.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Oh I agree

But I hate to see them ignore the bad stories. Certainly a balance is in order. But I don't want them to give the impression that everything in our community is hunky dory because it is not.

[Midlodemocrat]

27. I agree with you

...but I think the nature of this crime is what has everyone so hot and bothered. The poor victim didn't even get half a chance to be a mom, something she obviously was looking forward to. It strikes a nerve, I think, especially with women who have children, because the thought of leaving a child motherless is horrifying. It happens, it has happened in my own family, but it is heartbreaking none the less.

[BlueEyedSon]

5. I want to know how many PREGNANT women are homicide victims

per 1000, vs all women, non-pregnant women, men, adults, all US population, etc.

They you can make a statistically significant statement about it. Jeez Louise!

on edit: in reply to #4... yes this crime is particularly amoral, bizzare, repugnant, etc. But that has no bearing on the statistical argument being made on the news. It's just noise. Anybody here know the statistics of black men killing black men in the inner city? Where's the outrage?

[bleedingheart]

7. the problem is that the press isn't doing that ...

because if they did it wouldn't be that significant..

[idiosyncratic]

12. It sure makes a woman think twice about her safety

while she is pregnant.

Think about it . . .

If the leading cause of death for white men was murder, we would really start looking at "What the hell is causing this?"

If the leading cause of death for any subset of our population was murder, we would be trying to stop it from happening. Why not for pregnant women?


It is a horrible statistic. These women are young and healthy. They would probably have lived another 40, 50, 60, or 70 years.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

15. Slightly larger than a mole hill, I wouild think

A lunatic kills a woman and CUTS HER FREAKING BABY OUT. This is news. Not your standard homicide.

I don't think rubbers really come into play here.

[ComerPerro]

19. Yeah, but its not any indication of an epidemic

Which is what they were making it out to be here in KC.

I kept hearing shit on the radio like "This is happening all over the country, and pregnant women everywhere need to be more aware of it."

[bleedingheart]

35. but do the radio programs say..."your boyfriend or husband may kill you"

I bet not...because that is the ugly truth...instead they are making it sound like there is an epidemic of homicide deaths among pregnant women without really tackling the real issue...violence against women.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bleedingheart]

21. 140 women a year are killed ..how many other women are killed that

aren't preganant????

[Midlodemocrat]

28. I don't think that is the point

...the point being made is that homicide is the leading killer of a specific group, which leads one to at least consider the possibility that there are many, many women being battered who aren't pregnant.

[Jesus H. Christ]

33. Oh, I don't think that's the point either.

I think the point is: "I find this latest soap opera... err... I mean important news story enertai... I mean fascinating and I want to justify my sick pervers... I mean interest in it."

[Midlodemocrat]

36. I agree with you there

...but this particular type of crime does get a lot of media play, because it is really horrendous. I think mothers in particular are horrified by the notion of leaving a child motherless, so it plays into the whole MSM's hands.

[Mandate My Ass]

34. ahem

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

IN THE UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MURDER . Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends. That's approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War.


IMPACT ON HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES . Women who are battered have more than twice the health care needs and costs than those who are never battered. Approximately 17 percent of pregnant women report having been battered, and the results include miscarriages, stillbirths and a two to four times greater likelihood of bearing a low birth weight baby. Abused women are disproportionately represented among the homeless and suicide victims. Victims of domestic violence are being denied insurance in some states because they are considered to have a "pre-existing condition."

http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html

As many as 324,000 women each year experience intimate partner violence during their pregnancy.11

On average, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in this country every day. In 2000, 1,247 women were killed by an intimate partner. The same year, 440 men were killed by an intimate partner.

Women are much more likely than men to be killed by an intimate partner. In 2000, intimate partner homicides accounted for 33.5 percent of the murders of women and less than four percent of the murders of men.

Pregnant and recently pregnant women are more likely to be victims of homicide than to die of any other cause18 , and evidence exists that a significant proportion of all female homicide victims are killed by their intimate partners.

Maternal mortality shows a substantial gap as well. According to data published last year by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, an international think-tank, there were 3.4 maternal deaths for every 100,000 births among Canadians compared to a 9.8 among all Americans.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2004/02/10/why_canadians_are_healthier/

[bleedingheart]

46. the sad fact is that 1400 women are killed a year but the media is only

paying attention to the 140 that may have been pregnant.

That is what has me pissed off about this whole media soap opera. The majority of them are killed by intimate partners...not crazies who abduct them for their baby....


But once again...what is the second leading cause of death in pregnant women and what are those stats???

[Mandate My Ass]

48. I see what you're saying

but I still wouldn't characterize the disturbing number of deaths of pregnant women as a molehill.

I hate the hype too, but I could live with it if they ever decided to address the underlying problems - women's lives held more cheaply than men's (or anybody else's) in the US - but they'd rather show pix of pretty pregnant women posing for the cameras than address why we're appalled when the victims are fetuses but not when they're women.

[bleedingheart]

54. but they won't address the problem because doing that would mean

pointing a finger back at the people in the viewing audience.

It would mean that Joe "wifebeater" might become uncomfortable as the media points out the 10 warning signs that your husband may kill you or that he is a first class louse.

This is so personal because I had an Aunt that was beaten constantly by her husband...pregnant or not and to be honest the media is not really addressing the sad fact that women are still getting the shit kicked out of them in our wonderful "US of A"...

The headlines should read..."Domestic Violence is the leading killer of Pregnant Women..."...instead it reads "homicide is the leading killer of pregnant women"...but then again it ignores 1200 other women who die from domestic violence without being pregnant.

[Mandate My Ass]

61. Sorry about your aunt

but I'm a survivor and this comment in your OP stood out:

Note to all guys and gals out there...if you are in an abusive relationship..get help and get out.. and please use protection if you have sex...unwanted pregnancies do not make a bad relationship better.


When I was in an abusive relationship I was forbidden to use birth control and I was told I'd be murdered if I tried to end the relationship.

Pointing the finger at abusers does nothing. THe only thing they understand is when it gets turned back on them. Bullies will only respond to the application of yet greater force and intimidation they utilize. I was relieved when the law enforcement came to the conclusion that charges should be pressed against abusers whether or not the abusee agreed to it or not.

There is no magic bullet, one-size-fits-all solution. Some alternative solutions might be a better support system for those living in abusive situations. More shelters, better day care, enforcement of PFA orders, pshychiatric counseling to name but a few.

[bleedingheart]

63. My family begged my Aunt to leave him

we had a family farm...she could have taken her children there to live and the men in our family would have protected her from the bastard...Hell her brother wanted to shoot him after her left her face so black and blue she couldn't see because her face was so swollen. The SOB even pissed on her when she refused to have sex with him...

She bore 9 children to him...7 survived...and then one day he left her...a freakish miracle.

He died drunk and alone.

I am sorry for the "general post" but too many times I have known family members who thought a "baby" would fix everything. In most cases it made things far worse.

[Mandate My Ass]

64. Yes, there are those who believe a baby makes a monster

into a loving human being.

Just like those who stay because they think the love of a good woman will turn the abuser around.

Bullies cannot be "won over" they have to be beaten at their own game or left without a forwarding address. Sad but true.

[Solly Mack]

45. Exactly!

Violence against women is violence against women...pregnant or otherwise.

Yes, I fully understand that violence against men by a spouse is also a problem and it's a growing problem...but in regards to this new "news sensation", the media is focusing more on how tragic it is that pregnant women are murdered by a spouse or SO, when fact is, women are more likely to be murdered *PERIOD*...by a spouse or SO.

Here's the real story...women are more likely to be murdered by a spouse or SO.

[BlueEyedSon]

22. Need to compare that with a "control group"

What do we know about pregnant women? Well, they are youngish and relatively health. I wouldn't EXPECT them to be dying of strokes, cancers, heart attacks, etc., because they are too young. Need to compare them to a similar age/health cohort.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CatholicEug]

26. Let's play trump this outrage!

That's what this thread is ... "killing a pregnant woman and cutting out the fetus is bad, but what about that guy who bludgeoned his twins" etc etc etc. Don't make this crime into a political pulpit.

[BrklynLiberal]

37. Hate to play the "race"card..but all these cases involved Caucasian

pregant women. You can be pretty sure, there have been pregnant black women murdered in the past 2-3 years. Remember any nationwide headlines?????????????????
It is the media..and it is the Conservative, Repugnant, Neo-con, Fundie, "Pro-life" media that is feeding this frenzy..and frankly, they don't give a damn about dead black women and dead black babies.

[bleedingheart]

39. Let's be political, How many American bombs killed pregnant Iraqi women?

where is the outrage there...

How many children have we left motherless in Iraq?

There are more fatherless and motherless children here in the US as a result of this war as well since over 1300 soldiers have been killed.

[Midlodemocrat]

40. You are exactly right. Good post. n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

42. Excellent point!!!!! But the Neo-con, fundie media doesn't give damn

about them either!

[CatholicEug]

49. Are you saying you can't be concerned about both?

Before my original post was "curiously" removed, I said that this thread was outrageous, and I stand by that. It's outrageous for anyone to politicize this crime or any crime, or to somehow say that inadequate maternal care is worse than murdering someone and ripping a fetus from the womb. People can live with inadequate maternal health care. They can't live when they are murdered for their unborn babies.

In sum, stop politicizing murder to justify whatever the particular agenda of the day is, y'all.

[BrklynLiberal]

57. Ironically, it is the "Right to Lifers" and the Conservative media who has

been "politicizing" this issue, and creating this feeding frenzy over the Laci Peterson, and all the other pregnant, white women who have been killed. I suugest you write letters to the editors of those papers and other outlets with your complaints.

[CatholicEug]

50. Are you actually saying

there's no outrage over this?

[BrklynLiberal]

52. Not on the right. The Fallwells, and the other hate spewers are

the ones that would be saying they are happy about the Iraqi orphans. And the American orphans would be the "Price we pay for preserving Democracy for Iraq and fighting terrorism" PUKE

[CatholicEug]

53. I respectfully disagree

People are people, no matter what. Perhaps a few wackos on the right are gleeful, but I can't imagine most would shudder to see Iraqi children and women ripped apart by bombs, etc.

[bleedingheart]

55. and that is why the media isn't showing those pics very often..

if at all.

[BrklynLiberal]

59. They know that it would bring on the justifiable outrage against the

war! It was the pictures from Viet Nam that solidified the opposition to it!!

[bleedingheart]

58. There isn't any outrage except on the Left....

In less than a week we will celebrate the birth of the Prince of Peace knowing that we have killed countless numbers of innocent Iraqi men, women and children... I don't see the mea culpas on the right side of the political fence. In fact I see them as hungry for more violence as they plan which country to invade next.

[CatholicEug]

66. And we condemn the lack of outrage

by failing to be outraged over the murder of this woman and the theft of her baby? By saying, "Hey, there are worse things"?

[Danger Duck]

51. For the love of crumb cake

For almost any younger demographic, the leading cause of death is spmething horrible-car accident, murder, forcible sodomy by Kobe Bryant; the point being, younger people don't die naturally. I'll try and find a link.

[Danger Duck]

56. Semi-good link to state here:

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/causes.html?source=DeathClock

[bleedingheart]

60. African American Males are typically ignored...

"In the very least, 86% of all college-age African American male deaths are preventable — and violent — the result of an accident, homicide, or suicide. This is 36% more than their Caucasian American peers. "

http://www.menshealth.org/code/afroamer.html

[bobweaver]

68. What about the pregnant women killed in Iraq by Bush's bombs?

Aren't they worried about those fetuses? Or is military abortion excused?