ACLU says the Chimp signed the torture order

[ChicanoPwr]

President Bush signed order to allow torture, says ACLU
December 20, 2004

NEW YORK -- A document released for the first time today by the American Civil Liberties Union suggests that President Bush issued an Executive Order authorizing the use of inhumane interrogation methods against detainees in Iraq. Also released by the ACLU today are a slew of other records including a December 2003 FBI e-mail that characterizes methods used by the Defense Department as "torture" and a June 2004 "Urgent Report" to the Director of the FBI that raises concerns that abuse of detainees is being covered up.

"These documents raise grave questions about where the blame for widespread detainee abuse ultimately rests," said ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero. "Top government officials can no longer hide from public scrutiny by pointing the finger at a few low-ranking soldiers."

The documents were obtained after the ACLU and other public interest organizations filed a lawsuit against the government for failing to respond to a Freedom of Information Act request.

The two-page e-mail that references an Executive Order states that the President directly authorized interrogation techniques including sleep deprivation, stress positions, the use of military dogs, and "sensory deprivation through the use of hoods, etc." The ACLU is urging the White House to confirm or deny the existence of such an order and immediately to release the order if it exists. The FBI e-mail, which was sent in May 2004 from "On Scene Commander--Baghdad" to a handful of senior FBI officials, notes that the FBI has prohibited its agents from employing the techniques that the President is said to have authorized.

<snip>

The ACLU and its allies are scheduled to go to court again this afternoon, where they will seek an order compelling the CIA to turn over records related to an internal investigation into detainee abuse. Although the ACLU has received more than 9,000 documents from other agencies, the CIA refuses to confirm or deny even the existence of many of the records that the ACLU and other plaintiffs have requested. The CIA is reported to have been involved in abusing detainees in Iraq and at secret CIA detention facilities around the globe.

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17216&c=206

[freedom_to_read]

1. Can't wait for this to be front page news

unfortunately it ain't gonna happen. :(

[wicket]

5. Unfortunately I think you are right

:(

[Sara Beverley]

22. We have to focus and putting Christ back into Christmas...that is urgent!

Nevermind about our nation losing its soul to the Bush regime.

[absolutezero]

6. you never know

If there happens to be enough evidence, and the ACLU makes this big enough then the media might figure that a scandal like this will mean higher ratings and, therefore, more money.

Then we can watch as Bush goes the way of Nixon

[matt819]

14. The others are right

This story will die an unnatural death. Nothing will change.

[Bridget Burke]

7. It's not as important as the War Against Christmas.....

The media have their orders.

[freedom_to_read]

11. Besides, talking about torture is so unseemly

No need getting the flock all up in a hussie, when there are more important things to do, like racking up personal debt buying useless crap presents...

I think the ACLU is just trying to ruin Christmas for everyone.

[Bluebear]

12. You said a mouthful. nt

[zann725]

19. I don't know. I sense a turning 'tide'...

look at the Kerik scandal, Rumsfield, War Crime charges, protective armor for military...

I remain hopeful. The ACLU does not easily let things like this 'go.'

[freedom_to_read]

23. I hope you're right

but i've felt like the tide/screw/worm is about to turn for the last 4 years, and it hasn't happened. doesn't matter how low Bush goes, the media still covers for him. whores.

[ChicanoPwr]

29. How about we use the foriegn press?

[shraby]

2. Oh-oh.

A proof in hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Is it time to let the MSM know about it?

On edit..sent it to my senator, Russ Feingold. I suggest others do the same.

[hippiechick]

3. His only regret is that he couldn't be there

to hear the people scream and cry in person.

Sociopathic Bastard. :mad:


:hippie:

[Bluebear]

4. "Please don't torture me!" they cried in his dreams.

a la Karla Faye.

[AlCzervik]

8. but don't forget, he commuted the sentence of Henry Lee Lucas

unreal.

[Cocoa]

9. too bad this wasn't released yesterday

then one of our intrepid WH correspondents could have asked Bush about it at his press conference.

Oh well, I guess Scotty will be the one answering to this tomorrow...

[Cocoa]

31. Scotty's response

I put what I think is a desperate lie in boldface...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/12/print/20041221-5.html#8

Q Was the President aware of the FBI charges of abuse of prisoners at Guantanamo by the Defense Department?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, first of all, I think what you're referring to is some of the reports about some memos that have been publicly released now. And some of this information dates back to previous periods of time. The President expects that any allegations of abuse are taken seriously and fully investigated, and that corrective measures are taken to make sure that abuse does not occur again. That's what the President expects. The President made it very clear yesterday again that we are a nation of laws and a nation of values, and we adhere to our laws and values. And he expects --

Q So you're sure now that it doesn't go on anymore?

MR. McCLELLAN: Let me finish. The President expects that there -- if there are allegations of abuse, that those allegations need to be taken seriously. They need to be fully investigated, people need to be held accountable and brought to justice if they're involved in wrongdoing, and that preventative measures and corrective measures are put in place to prevent it from happening again. The Department of Defense has a number of investigations ongoing into allegations of abuse. I think they show that they take these allegations very seriously, and that's what we expect.

<snip>

Q Scott, if I could go back to the FBI memos for a moment. Were the concerns of the FBI, as communicated to the Director and other officials there, from its agents who have been at Guantanamo Bay ever shared with any officials at the White House?

MR. McCLELLAN: That's a broad question. I mean, I can go check specifics if you want to bring it to my attention; I can see what else I can get for you. We're aware --

Q The FBI agents are saying people in Guantanamo, military officials are, one, posing as FBI agents, and two, doing things to prisoners that we are not allowed to do, which they considered abuses.

MR. McCLELLAN: Generally speaking, we are aware of the allegations of abuse that are being made available in some of the documents that have been released. And I told you what the President's view is. Everybody knows what the policy is. And we've made it very clear that we expect that policy to be followed. And so, yes, we do stay in touch with the Department of Defense on issues of this nature when they come up. The Department of Defense has assured you, has assured the public that they take these issues seriously, that they have investigations going on. There have been instances where they have taken action to hold people accountable for alleged abuse.

Q Right. But what I'm asking about in this particular case, you had the FBI expressing specific concerns from people who had been down there and seen what they considered abusive behavior. Are you saying, in that particular instance, those particular concerns were expressed to the White House?

MR. McCLELLAN: Again, in terms of specifics, this information is becoming public so we're becoming aware of more information as it becomes public, as you are. I think that these are matters that are typically addressed with the Department of Defense, and the Department of Defense is the one who takes action to look into those matters. So I can't say that specific matters and memos, internal memos at the FBI, I can't say that we were necessarily aware of those. I'd have to check on individual matters.

Q Well, the question would be whether the White House knew that the FBI was concerned that there were abuses and that its name was being invoked in perpetrating those abuses. If the White House didn't know, then we would be led to believe that it was up to Director Mueller to go to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and say, hey, your guys are doing things that are wrong and blaming my guys for doing it.

MR. McCLELLAN: Again, there's a lot of documents that have been released. I'd have to check into specific instances and let you know on that.

Q So you -- would you clear up one thing? There was one story out there that the President had signed some executive order that somehow dealt with the interrogation of prisoners?

MR. McCLELLAN: I think that's already been cleared up by the Department of Defense, as well as the Department of Justice, who said that that individual was mistaken.

Q Well, would you just state for the record whether the President had ever signed any sort of order dealing with interrogation?

MR. McCLELLAN: There is no executive order relating to interrogation techniques. When it comes to military detainees and interrogation methods, those are determinations made by the Department of Defense.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. "The buck stops there..er, over there, er...not here."

Can't imagine why the boob-in-chief was so anxious to prevent us from participating in the ICC.

[Stryguy]

13. Which is why he supports Rumsfeld. Kick out Rummy and he starts talking..

[goclark]

16. Rummy the talker!

Bush knows that Rummy ain't going down by himself.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. I doubt this will last more than one news cycle

But if it does, watch what happens. Nothing. Not a damned thing.

What's worse, the "American People" will do and say ...... nothing.

To quote that great paragon of American virtue, Sen Inhoff (R-CrazyFuckerfromOklahoma): "We are outraged at the outrage."

[zann725]

17. This will definitely help War Crimes charges; AND...

could contribute to his Impeachment.

Very big news. And the fact that it came from an FBI email...indicates that possibly disgruntled agents are leaking info.

[marlakay]

18. Yeah so we get rid of him that leaves us with his VP

definitely not any better!

[shadowknows69]

20. i don't think it would matter if it wasproven

his "flock", the neo-con controlled Government as well would just spin Bush into a hero for doing whatever it takes to protect us. We've already trained our populace to accept this administration's atrocities

[Quakerfriend]

25. It seems like the FBI and the CIA will continue to leak

We the People must rebel a bit, or it will simply go under the rug.

[stopbush]

21. It will make the front page, but to no effect.

Remember the "Bush Knew" headlines in the RW NY Post, ie: 9/11? Where was the outrage then? And since then, * has become even more deified to his asshole supporters and the media. Besides, it's just them brown-skinned Eye-rack-ees, after all...nit like some white boy in a USA uniform get tortured er nuttin...

They don't care. Gas prices are falling...that's a free Get-out-of-jail card for the boy emperor as far as his fans care

[Midlodemocrat]

24. The poor ACLU

made the front page of the paper (NYT) Saturday because of some fundraising practices. Utter/complete crap. A diversion to be sure.


edit for link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/18/national/18aclu.html?oref=login

[Stryguy]

28. ANd don't forget

Everyone thinks it was like Torture on a daily basis over there before. Hell they used to Torture unborn fetuses I heard..

hahaha

Now lets get on with

Freeing Iraq by torturing those innocent grandma's!

Saving Social Security by reducing paid benefits 100 years from now.

Reducing the value of the Dollar until the threat of moving to Canada actually becomes unaffordable.

------

I'm convinced history will show Bush as the worst president our country ever had. I hope my children read about him in 11th grade history. Oh scratch that.. The No Child Left Behind act will have my kids school so underfunded they won't be able to buy updated history books.

[cliss]

26. Well, well.

Didn't we all know this was true? George Bush said, "We're going to get to the bottom of this". Someone wrote, "No, we're going to get to the TOP of this".

Much as they sweated heavily for a few days, they knew they were the ones who did this.

Whew, they look at each other with sweat on their foreheads. "Thank God for the grunts".

[Solly Mack]

27. Enough Americans have to care before this will do any good

As long as far too many so-called humans in America think torture is a good thing and "just what they deserved", nothing will happen to Bush. He'll never be held accountable.

Yeah, I like the truth coming out but I would prefer that justice be served up with the truth.

America can survive sending an entire administration to prison.

[ChicanoPwr]

30. I think if we

If we are able write up a good by-line and put the pictures next to it. People will care about it.

[nascarblue]

32. Can you imagine if this was Clinton?

Those sleazy republicans, Fox, MSNBC, and CNN(Clinton Cock Network) would be 24/7 on his ass non stop. What a tragic sad country we live in.

[Jacobin]

33. Of course he did

And Americans (half) love him for it.

This country is sick and its dying.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Sparkly]

35. What's your point? n/t

[nascarblue]

36. I think his point is that whenever something comes out to make...

Bush look bad, there's always some convenient beheading or Bin Laden tape to draw attention away..

Remember the Nick Berg beheading? He had been arrested by the military for 10 days and then released mysteriously? His dad had gotten an email from him on the 9th, disappeared the next day...

Now all the freepers have Mr. Berg on their "enemies list" because he's against the war. Sick fawkers. YOu should see some of the threads on FR about Bergs dad. Its completely foul.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=michaelberg

[Name removed]

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[Sparkly]

38. That's what I thought

Detainees in Iraq are being tortured who were NOT "caught trying to kill Americans." That is ONE reason to "worry about what happens" to them. It is WRONG, even when it's the US that's acting like "backward thinking super naturalists."

Another reason is that removing all standards for treatment of prisoners removes any claim of moral superiority and justifies the same treatment of US prisoners.

I can't believe you're defending this.

[Ms. Clio]

39. Dear noworry

What the hell is a "super naturalist?"

I'll bet your folks will be happy when school starts again.

[Name removed]

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[Ms. Clio]

43. That's not how you spelled it the first time

So what do you think of freaky supernatural things like "He died on the cross, was buried, and came back to life in three days?"

BTW, the Red Cross says that 90% of those held in Abu Ghraib were not involved in attacks on American troops. The majority of them were either petty criminals, incarcerated for things like public drunkenness, or completely innocent.

But do keep repeating your very revealing mantra about beheadings and 72 virgins and whatnot.

[Name removed]

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[Ms. Clio]

46. No response to the rest of the post and the Red Cross info, I see

Facts are hard and obstinate things to deal with, aren't they?

[Name removed]

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[Ms. Clio]

53. LOL

Yeah, Clara Barton--what commie scum that feminazi was!

I'll bet that's what the Germans, said, too--"We'll trust our guys before we trust anyone who says the Jews are being rounded up and killed."

Well, enjoy your stay here.

[Name removed]

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[Sparkly]

54. Geeeez Louise

Now I've heard everything. :eyes:

[Sparkly]

47. Should those who do believe in the resurrection be tortured?

Especially if they're "caught trying to kill" someone else? Wouldn't that make them just like the people you claim we have a right to torture?

[Name removed]

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[Sparkly]

52. So why do you not care about tortures of others?

That's the topic here. You claimed you don't care about what happens to some supernatural believers, but you don't want Christian ones tortured.

[Ms. Clio]

55. He can't just come right out and say it

Jeeeeeez.

You wouldn't expect him to admit that he thinks all brown people who believe in Allah are the enemy and deserve nothing more than to have their faces beaten to a pulp, lit cigarettes inserted into their ears, and their genitals crushed by attack dogs, would you?

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[Ms. Clio]

61. Don't call me "darlin"

Dude.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Ms. Clio]

59. That's not what the FBI says

is that an un-American organization, too?

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

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[Ms. Clio]

66. The military trials of people like Lyndie England aren't good enough?

The photo evidence isn't good enough? Our own Congresspeople and Senators who have seen many of those unreleased photos and videotapes and expressed shock and horror isn't good enough?

There is absolutely no doubt at all that torture occurred and will continue to occur as long as the occupation lasts.

You either haven't been paying attention at all during the last few months, or you get your news from Fox, or you deliberately ignore the truth.

I's really difficult to take you seriously.

[Name removed]

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[Ms. Clio]

69. You are just wrong--nobody with the facts disputes that it was torture

And have a one track mind yourself. Most of the people in Abu Ghraib were not "terrorists."

The LA Times reported on August 4, 2004:

FT. BRAGG, N.C. — Senior Army criminal investigators testified Tuesday that the inmates who were abused and sexually humiliated last year at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq were of little or no intelligence value to the United States.


Buh bye, now.


(Edited to add LA Times info.)

[Sparkly]

71. UNbelievable!!!

Who said anything even CLOSE to America = Evil, Terrorists = Good? NOBODY --except maybe Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter, misleading their idiotic followers to believe people are saying things they're not.

[Sparkly]

60. Torture

...suggests that President Bush issued an Executive Order authorizing the use of inhumane interrogation methods against detainees in Iraq. Also released by the ACLU today are a slew of other records including a December 2003 FBI e-mail that characterizes methods used by the Defense Department as "torture" and a June 2004 "Urgent Report" to the Director of the FBI that raises concerns that abuse of detainees is being covered up.

Who even knows what's going on right now -- what's apparent is that there has been preznit-approved torture and there has been a coverup. Nothing justifies this, yet you claimed you don't care what happens to these "supernaturalist" detainees (yet other supernaturalists should only be interrogated, not tortured, you say). Why is that?

[Name removed]

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[Sparkly]

68. Rummy, is that you?

Read it again. The word torture is there. I know some in this regime prefer "abuse," or occasionally "murder" as the case may be, as well as "violations of international law" -- but by any other name, it's just as immoral and illegal.

Here's more about it:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/oneworld/20041222/wl_oneworld/45361002201103735135

[Ms. Clio]

72. This is how the torture deniers manage the cognitive dissonance

There it is in black and white, the FBI calling it torture, but he then shifts the grounds of the argument to the "authorization."

Quite an interesting study in the psychology of denial, evasion, and distraction.

[ChicanoPwr]

73. Read this letter.

Read this letter and see how supernaturalists you can justify this torture.
-------------------------------------------------------
Fatima’s letter

December 18, 2004

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Mercy-giving. “Say He is God the One; God the Source of everything; Not has He fathered, nor has He been fathered; nor is anything comparable to Him.”

I chose this noble Surah from the Book of God because it has the greatest impact on me and on all of you and it strikes a particular kind of awe in the hearts of Believers.

My brother Mujahideen in the path of God! What can I say to you? I say to you: our wombs have been filled with the children of fornication by those sons of apes and pigs who raped us. Or I could tell you that they have defaced our bodies, spit in our faces, and tore up the little copies of the Qur’an that hung around our necks? God is greatest! Can you not comprehend our situation? Is it true that you do not know what is happening to us? We are your sisters. God will be calling you to account tomorrow.

By God, we have not passed one night since we have been in prison without one of the apes and pigs jumping down upon us to rip our bodies apart with his overweening lust. And we are the ones who had guarded our virginity out of fear of God. Fear God! Kill us along with them! Destroy us along with them! Don’t leave us here to let them get pleasure from raping us! It will be an act to ennoble the Throne of Almighty God. Fear God regarding us! Leave their tanks and aircraft outside. Come at us here in the prison of Abu Ghurayb.

I am your sister in God (Fatimah). They raped me on one day more than nine times. Can you comprehend? Imagine one of your sisters being raped. Why can’t you all imagine it, as I am your sister. With me are 13 girls, all unmarried. All have been raped before the eyes and ears of everyone.

They won’t let us pray. They took our clothes and won’t let us get dressed. As I write this letter one of the girls has committed suicide. She was savagely raped. A soldier hit her on her chest and thigh after raping her. He subjected her to unbelievable torture. She beat her head against the wall of the cell until she died, for she couldn’t take any more, even though suicide is forbidden in Islam. But I excuse that girl. I have hope that God will forgive her, because He is the Most Merciful of all.

Brothers, I tell you again, fear God! Kill us with them so that we might be at peace. Help! Help! Help! .

http://mparent7777.blog-city.com/read/966253.htm
---------------------------------------------------------

So are saying this type of questioning is ok with you? Because I can tell you, this makes me sick.

So please tell me what is a parent or a brother to do, sit there do nothing. These are your so-called supernaturalists. These are the same humans B* ordered to torture.

[Ms. Clio]

74. If the Red Cross is an "anti-American organization"

and the photo evidence of beaten, battered, and burned bodies not indicative of torture, then I doubt the torture-deniers will find this letter persuasive.

I find it heartbreaking, but then, I don't believe all Iraqis are terrorists.

The evidence is overwhelming; this letter merely corroborates the atrocities described earlier:

An attorney representing former detainees says his recent fact-finding mission to Baghdad uncovered dozens of cases of physical and psychological abuse, sexual humiliation, religious desecration and rape in ten US-run prisons throughout occupied Iraq.

The NewStandard spoke with Michigan-based attorney Shereef Akeel, who interviewed some 50 former detainees about their time and treatment in US custody. Part of the legal team behind a class action lawsuit against the firms for their employees’ involvement in prison abuse at US-run facilities in Iraq, the former immigration lawyer found himself traveling to meet face-to-face with the people he is representing in the American court system.

His team has documented abuse dating from July 2003 to as recently as last month, when an Iraqi boy just fifteen years old says his captors at an American facility raped him. “He was told to go on all fours naked and was sodomized from behind,” Akeel conveyed the fifteen year-old’s testimony. “He said they made him dance and he was crying.”

(snip)

During the course of his investigation in Iraq, Akeel said, clear patterns emerged. According to Akeel, testimonials gathered individually from former captives held in US prisons all over Iraq indicate many of the common methods came into use across disparate, geographically distant detention centers.

(snip)

In another account, a doctor first taken to a presidential palace and made to stand there for hours on end, told Akeel that he was then taken to the Abu Ghraib prison where he watched a naked prisoner forced onto the running engine of a Humvee, leaving the man with irreparable burns.

Witnesses also told Akeel the famous Tikrit area stables of Saddam Hussein’s son, Uday, now house Iraqi prisoners who are forced to urinate and defecate in the same stalls where they sleep


http://www.world-crisis.com/news/698_0_1_0_M/

[ChicanoPwr]

75. And people wonder why?

I like to know who and what family will not fight for there wifes, husbands, children and friends.



In Germany they came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
German Protestant Clergyman

[Jacobin]

44. Those "backward thinking" folks

are kicking our "forward(?)thinking" techno-asses.

I suppose you aren't old enough to remember Vietnam. History is a valuable lesson. Too bad half of america has fucking forgotten any history they ever learned.

[Cat Atomic]

48. You don't care because you're un-American.

You're part of a fascist infection in an otherwise noble society.

[knight_of_the_star]

40. The ACLU knows how to play the game

They'll wait on making it public until AFTER the holiday season and keep banging on the drum until it gets the attention it deserves. This will snowball on them, set up for impeachment. Even better, if the House Dems bring an impeachment vote to the floor and are shut down by a GOP majority, that sets us up to re-take the House.

[ElementaryPenguin]

41. An impeachable war criminal! That's what we've allowed in the White House

:puke:
:puke:
:puke:

[rucky]

49. Time to contribute again. n/t

[goclark]

63. Go ACLU!! GO GO!!

Remember when Rush tried to use the ACLU to give him his "rights" to take all those pills?

Ironic isn't it.

[ChicanoPwr]

70. That is what I don't get

I was listening to the radio today and some fundie called the ACLU a radical leftist organization. And I am sure the neo-cons will not argue with them, but when their rights are violated, they quickly run to the ACLU to defend them.

[Name removed]

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