Where's the money going in Iraq?

[jefff]

I was kicking this around with a family member today, and neither of us could see how the numbers made any sense. If anybody else out there has a clue, please let me know what you know. Otherwise I'm seeing a HUGE rip-off (gee, what a surprise). Here's what I'm talking about:

Current spending estimate on Iraq occupation: 1 billion per week, 4 billion per month. This comes from a lot of news sources. This is supposed to be just for the troops. Rebuilding, weapons, ammo, etc. are all additional.

We are supposed to have roughly 150,000 troops over there right now. Well, 4 billion divided by 150,000 comes to about $26,666.00 per person, per month. Wow! What are these folks getting for all this cash? this works out to about $320,000.00 per year for each and every American in uniform in Iraq. Given what I'm hearing about poor conditions and lack of supplies, I think that something's missing from this picture. Like say, THE MONEY!

And of course now we are hearing that this just isn't enough. More will be needed. Gimme a break already.

[rfranklin]

1. 150,000 troops need toilet seats...

Say about one toilet seat per ten people. That's 15,000 toilet seats. Toilet seats purchased by the Pentagon are about $9,000 each. Right there, that's about $135,000,000. Then there's your hammers...

[niceypoo]

2. From what Ive read on military forums Halburton is running the war

and doing it on the cheap.

[Must_B_Free]

3. Halliburton

Raytheon, GE, Northrop Grumman.

Man, you should have seen this company I worked for once. It was a spare parts replentishment system for the two marine bases.

These people were paying these old retired consultants like $250-$300 and hour and noone was doing much.

One of the stories I heard was about this million dollar "boat anchor" of a hard drive system that someone sold them... never finished it, never got it to work... sits in the corner...

The finally sent down some family members from canada to try to get a grip on things, even they seemed clueless.

Noone knew what was going on, so badly that I got bored and found a better position.

Anyway, it was a logistics company, and Raytheon and Northrop were right across the road... That's how these places are, they waste money.

[paulsbc]

4. all the money spent should

be a part of the public, should it not? Bremer and company are spending US tax monies, and all tax expenditures are covered in the freedom of information act, IIRC....

As much as people like to bitch about us doing "nothing", that is not really the case, and a lot of money is being spent on infrastructure improvements, including power, water, schools, and a host of other areas. HDNet had a good report on a bit back about the orphanages in and around Baghdad and how we are helping weed out the good from the bad and get them the needed supplies and food they need for the children under their care.

Remember, even though this war was short, we dropped a huge amount of ordnance and did a lot of damage. fixing that takes time, and money...

[Peachhead22]

5. Rebuilding schools, roads, etc.

I heard the other day how we're rebuilding hundreds of schools, roads, infrastructure and what have you. Not because we destroyed hundreds of schools, etc. Remember how we were being careful with the targeting to spare civilian infrastructure (too careful IMO). They said it's because Saddam "neglected it". BS! If we didn't break it, it's not our place to fix it. It's just an indirect subsidy to Haliburton and Brown & Root.

Rebuild what we broke(period), let them elect their government, and get the *&$@ outta there. They have the world's second largest reserves of oil. Let _them_ rebuild or improve anything Saddam neglected, (and anything these terrorists screw up) and let them choose their own contractors! If U.S. forces didn't break it, Shrub shouldn't be making U.S. taxpayers pay to fix it.

[paulsbc]

6. you must realize

that we can't just up and leave now don't you? even most of the candidates, including Dean, understand that. We must attempt to bring some semblence of representative government before we just high tail it out of town. and to do that, we must spend the cash to fix that country up so it can take care of itself. if we do not, that terrorist "insurgency" will find a nice new home with near-unlimited reserves of oil and cash to fund their fanatism.

[Peachhead22]

7. I realize that

At least some of that. I realize we can't just up and leave, like tomorrow. With no government, no police. But rebuilding stuff we didn't break is BS IMO. Why should we do that? I can understand training Iraqi police and helping with logistics of aan election (although we have our own problems there too) and that sort of thing. Security stuff. But hundreds of new schools and new roads, etc. on our dime? Bah!


Yes, install representative government. NOW! There were some local elections scheduled recently. Bremer cancelled them. Doesn't sound like he's all that interested in representative government.

[paulsbc]

8. i do agree

that rebuilding that which we didn't break is a bit much, but at this point it is better to err on the side of doing what we can to give them a chance once we leave. i think most Dem candidates understand that, and I think most in Congress understand that. we broke the stupid thing, now we have to at least fix it a bit before we up and leave.

on the representative government issue, Iraq isnt ready yet for that, but they are making progress. This isn't a right/left/dem/repub thing, this is the fact that the country has been under a dictator for decades, and needs to learn some representative government concepts before we high tail it out of their. I wish we weren't in this stupid mess of having to do this when the real fight is with OBL and his goons, but we are where we are because of our (and others who shall remain nameless) failure in 2000 to elect the right person, and we are going to be cleaning up this crap for some time..

[grasswire]

9. IIRC

the figure is almost $5 billion per month, with $1 billion going to the troops and the other four for rebuilding.

I agree. This needs to be open books. The people deserve to know. (like that matters)

[Kool Kitty]

10. "...we have to fix it a bit before we up and leave."

You mean like we fixed Afghanistan? Why do they still have no reliable water or electricity? According to reports about the before and after, there was electricity and water before the war started. (If you watched this war as it took place on TV, then you saw that they had electricity.) Why are soldiers writing home asking that their families send them bottled water and food, for heaven's sake? What are they spending the money on? And now W wants to ask for more. No problem, just show us what you did with the money you got before.

[paulsbc]

11. you mean "fixing"

we are still in Afghanistan, as my friend in the Army who helps with medical supplies likes to tell me from time to time...

We are spending $1billion A YEAR in Afghanistan, we are spending $1billion A WEEK in Iraq. Anyone else sense another imbalance?

[Kool Kitty]

12. Ask your friend what we are doing in Afghanistan.

I'd love to know, since it seems like the Taliban are reforming (or regrouping or whatever the hell they call it). They burned a school last week because (gasp) the school was educating girls. Mr. Karzai is a virtual prisoner in Kabul. Sounds like it's moving right along.

[paulsbc]

13. a good link

show some links that show a bit of what is going on there

http://www.aopnews.com/
http://www.export.gov/afghanistan/
http://www.us-arc.org/
http://www.worldbank.org/artf


one story line:

Afghanistan Uses Reconstruction Trust Fund to Address Priorities
Latest Developments

• Afghanistan Uses Reconstruction Trust Fund to Address Priorities

• U.S. Proposes $1 Billion Aid Package

• Afghanistan Joins World Bank's MIGA

• World Bank Boosts Support for Job Creation Through Public Works in Rural Afghanistan

• World Bank Helps Reform Public Administration

In the Media

• U.S. Said to Plan Bigger Afghan Role, Stepping Up Aid

• U.S. Expected to Announce New Plan for Reconstruction

• Afghanistan, Small Biz Top OPIC's Agenda

•Germany May Join Reconstruction Teams

• U.S. to Revamp Afghan Efforts

August 6, 2003

At the request of the Government of Afghanistan, the World Bank, as the administrator of the Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund, signed agreements this week for three new projects designed to help improve the country's telecommunications system; repair its roads and drainage systems and provide credit and other financial services to low-income people.

Rehabilitation of Telecommunications systems

A grant of US$ 3 million has been provided from ARTF to establish international connectivity between Afghanistan and the rest of the world, particularly with its neighboring countries. The funds will also begin investment in Afghan Telecom in preparation for its shift from a state-owned department to a corporation as a key step for future partnerships with the private sector.

"Today Afghanistan has one of the weakest telecommunications systems in the world. Only one out of every 625 Afghan citizens has access to telephone service," said Philippe Dongier, ARTF Manager. "The ARTF Management Committee approved Government's proposal for an investment in this project as it will generate funds from telecom services to strengthen Government's revenue base for contribution to the recurrent and development budget of the country."

The Ministry of Telecommunications will implement the project.

Repair of Major Kabul City Roads and Water Drainage Systems

A grant of US$ 3 million has been approved from ARTF to improve transport services on important roads within Kabul city through the rehabilitation of high priority road sections, as well as the repair of drainage systems along these roads. The overall objective is to achieve effective and visible contribution to the economic recovery of Kabul. This project is the continuation of the ongoing German-funded project being implemented by KfW, Kreditanstalt für Wiederaufbau, in Kabul.

"As the capital of Afghanistan, Kabul has a population of about 3 million people including returnees, internally displaced people, female-headed households, disabled people and other vulnerable groups. One of the Government's priorities is to improve the situation here and the ARTF Management Committee felt it was critical to help the government finance activities to enable it to achieve its development goals for the city," said Mohammad Qahir Haidari, World Bank Operations Officer in Kabul.

As a result of this project, approximately 40,000 tons of asphalt will be produced and about 155 km of roads in Kabul will be repaired. The water drainage systems along these roads will also be repaired. This project will be implemented by KfW in cooperation with Kabul Municipality.

Micro-finance Support for Poverty Reduction

A grant of US$ 4 million has been provided from the ARTF to support access to credit and other financial services for poor and low-income people. These households can use the micro-finance to invest in business opportunities, meet emergency needs, reduce vulnerability and build assets. This project will specifically focus supporting the entrepreneurial spirit of the Afghan people to help them improve their livelihoods and make the transition from dependence on humanitarian assistance to economic independence. It will help the government establish the foundations of a strong, sustainable micro-finance sector and set up a national Micro-finance Investment and Support Fund for Afghanistan as an autonomous wholesale institution for long term development and the sustainability of the sector.

"War has devastated almost all basic services in the country, and has resulted in a significant increase in the level of poverty," said Mudassir Khan, a World Bank Senior Financial Specialist. "Micro and small business opportunities will generate livelihoods for the people of Afghanistan where lack of capital is the key constraint."

The Ministry of Rural Rehabilitation and Development will implement the project
over an 18 month period.

About the Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund

The multilateral Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund (ARTF) was set up in May
2002 to provide support to Afghanistan for three main areas of expenditure: recurrent costs of the government, such as the salaries of teachers, health workers, and police; investments, including capacity building, feasibility studies, and technical assistance; and financing the return of expatriate Afghans.

Twenty-two donors including Bahrain, Canada, Denmark, European Commission, Finland, Germany, India, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Luxembourg, Netherlands,
Norway, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, United
Kingdom, United States have pledged US$430 million to the Trust Fund, and
US$276 million has been received. To date, US$188 million has been disbursed to the Government of Afghanistan. The fund has emerged as one of the main instruments for financing the country's recurrent budget deficit and is set to evolve into a major source of technical assistance and investment support for Afghanistan.

In addition, channeling support through the ARTF has helped the government to avoid addressing the distinct funding specifications of 22 different donors, allowing the assistance to be used more efficiently and effectively without the risk of duplication of work.

The ARTF is jointly managed by the Asian Development Bank, Islamic Development
Bank, United Nations Development Program, and the World Bank, which also administers the fund.

Ongoing ARTF-supported Micro-finance Project

The first phase of this US$1 million grant was signed in June 2003. The government requested this grant in order to hire a Project Manager to coordinate among donors interested in micro-finance investment and to analyze financing applications from micro-finance NGOs. Out of 14 applications, 10 NGOs which met the eligibility requirements were short listed. To date, an initial agreement has been signed with BRAC and financing arrangements with others are currently under discussions.

[Kool Kitty]

15. Thanks for the links.

The third one, us-arc.org, hasn't been updated since July of 2002 (or so the dates on it appear). I just don't know what to make of this information and what is reported in the press. It certainly seems contradictory.

[paulsbc]

17. remember

the press isn't really the press any more. IMO, they are usually just shrills for one side or the other and have very low journalistic integrity and real reporting.

they hide more than they report. do we really need wall to wall coverage of a basketball players' rape trial, and endless debate about his accusor, himself and the ring he bought his wife?

Afghanistan is by no means a complete success, please do not misunderstand me. I actually feel we should have 5-8x the number of troops there than we currently do, given that OBL is supposed to be around there, and he *SHOULD* be our main goal {not Iraq, but that is a different conversation :)}

But please don't buy into the concept that we aren't doing anything, I can assure you that we are, but I feel we should be doing more, as do many others, and perhaps they just stress the negatives and forget that some good is occuring in that area...

[Kool Kitty]

18. I certainly don't expect our press to report on this.

Information on Afghnistan comes from European and Middle East press and some (ahem) leftist press sources like Indymedia, The Nation Magazine, the RAWA site and women's press sources. Notice how there's no pictures coming out of Afghanistan (or Iraq anymore, for that matter)?

[TacticalPeek]

14. In the Bill Maher thread here tonight,

someone had the line, "Will the Salvation Army pick up Afghanistan if we drag it to the curb?".

[Kool Kitty]

16. Exactly. That's what I was talking about.

Doesn't seem like anything is getting any better there. It seems to be reverting to the way it was before the Taliban took over. Warlords and roving gangs.

[jefff]

19. 4 Billion/Month Just for Troops

Of course I realize we need to fix what we broke. That is a separate budget from the money I'm talking about. The money I'm concerned with is supposed to only go for our toops. Someone else here said its only 1 billion per month for the troops, but that's not what I have heard.