Let's talk about Skull & Bones again for those who aren't familiar yet.

[Wonk]

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/archive_skull_and_bones.html
http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=4136
http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/story.asp?ID=2947
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/01/1557710.php
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Skull_Bones_1.htm

Kerry was in the same elite frat as * and he won't even talk about it. Shouldn't that bother us and not just be dismissed with snarky comments like "Oh, great, more Bull and Scones"? Isn't having taken an oath that would supercede his oath of office if he were sworn in as President a big deal?

[wabeewoman]

1. I read that 98% of skull and boners

were repug. Wonder WHY Kerry was it in? Is it a family tradition?

[seventhson]

3. Kerry's ancestors financed Skull and Bones, so...

it may be that Bush was actually recruited by Kerry's family.

I do not know about the percentages, but Skull was a primary recruitment organization for the CIA and deep cover plants and sleepers.

Skull members financed and handled funding for Hitler.

The Kerry family connection goes back to his Forbes ancestors who made their money off Opium from China.

Anyone who dismisses the evidence that this organization is dangerous and prone to promoting the destabilization of democracies here and abroad does not know their history.

I believe Kerry's oaths of loyalty to Skull and of secrecy about Skull makes him unfit to serve either as a President OR as a representative of the people. It conflicts with his oath of office and...


the thing that bothers me most is that he has YET to renounce his association with a secret society in which he is a "brother" with the Bushes.

[liberalnurse]

14. Well that sure puts me on notice.....

We need to end this Skull & Bones reign over America.

No to Kerry......Dem or not.....this is bad.

[disgruntella]

2. let's pick on kerry - for those who aren't familiar with that sport

Although you'd have to be brand spankin' new to DU to be unfamiliar with it.

:boring:

[GregW]

4. No, let's not

Let's just use valium to help us get to sleep instead.

[seventhson]

5. Denial is not a river in Egypt

It is a syndrome that Americans who are not educated about the Power Elites prefer to snooze in.

Read the links.

Or escape with a pharmaceutical product...

Your choice

[Coffee Coyote]

12. the links are as questionable as Faux News

:eyes:

[seventhson]

16. Not really. If you follow them to their sources you will find the TRUTH

Like any citation: you have to follow it to its source and see if it is credible.

Faux news has a lot of true news and a lot of bullshit opinion and blathering.

Smart people can pick up the distinctions and weed out the truth.

It always makes me feel yucky when folks here try to discourage people from actually READING the links and deciding for themselves.

I recommend the Alexandra Robbins interview in Guerillanews

She has a lot of credibility with me in this interview . She is a Yalie and she got inside info and members to speak (when they thought they could use her). Her conclusion: Skull is dangerous and Kerry/Bush skull to skull matchup is a REALLY BAD THING for America.

BRB


Read the Interview here and use yopur OWN mind, not the Kerry skull and bones apologists. This shit is dead real, folks. Kerry is way bad news for us. But if you think I am full of sh*t then read uyp a bit and tell me if you think SHE is lying too! (She also cruises DU by the way):

http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc794.html

[Coffee Coyote]

29. lol

"The TRUTH!" You sound like a fundie. :-)

I despise frats, and I am NOT a supporter of Kerry. That SHOULD blow your little tinfoil mind, because in your world, anyone who doesn't think Skull & Bones is some malevolent Masonic plot to birth world domination just means they are a "Kerry apologist". Nope - never liked the guy, and I don't want him to get nominated.

As for S&B - it's just more rich boy elitist prick-waving "Character-Building" bullshit - the elite of the elites among Ivy League frats. That is reason enough to oppose the frat, or Kerry, without all the bogus, fake documentation, rumor, and hearsay provided in those links.

[seventhson]

45. Damn good bad argument

You said : "(There is) reason enough to oppose the frat, or Kerry, without all the bogus, fake documentation, rumor, and hearsay provided in those links."


The facts are the facts.

CIA connections and connections to MOST of the democracy destabilizing efforts of its members in the 20th Cenury *Iran, Guatemala, Africa, Latin America, etc.) are ALL well documented (unless you simply haven't bothered to read them.

WHAT prescisely do you believe is NOT factual?

Let's argue the facts and NOT debate the value of considering the facts.

Unless you have a particular gripe about the evidence presented in the links , your claim seems like an effort to dissemble.

[Stuckinthebush]

6. I took an oath when I was initiated in my fraternity

I forget most of it, but it had to do with brotherhood and keeping your "brothers" foremost in your mind when acting. If a brother needs help, blah, blah, blah.

I was 19 years old. I drank a lot. That's what fraternity boys do.

Kerry was probably 19 when he took his "oath". He probably doesn't think twice about it today.

This Skull and Bones thing is silly IMHO. Sure, you have young boys from wealth joining, but that is no different from other fraternities that see themselves as "exclusive".

Folks, there is nothing here. Really. Honestly. Unless you are just looking for a strange tale that will connect Bush with Kerry, and Kerry with a wacky society that continues its silly oaths adminstered by 20 year olds to 18 year olds.

Drop this. There are so many real, important things to be concerned about.

[seventhson]

20. You totally ignore the history. Read Alexandra Robbins interview

linked below

These are relationships for LIFE. They are oaths for LIFE.

This is not your usual drunkhouse frat, It is designed to keep the rich rich by any means necessary - including assassination and war.

You obviously know very little about how these networks of elites on wall street and in the spook community work.

These societes were designed to indoctrinate the young rich anglo-Germans into their obligations to protect their wealth and their class.

It is a criminal enterprise.

The Bushes are the best example of how corrupt it is.

Kerry's top political advisor is a fellow skull member. His wife is the widow of a skull member. His family, the Forbes family, were FOUNDERS of the order in the 1830's -- like 6 generations ago.

For you to be so dismissive when you obviously are so ignorant of this history is unbecoming of a DUer.

Shame.

Do a litt;e reading of history willya?

Skull participants are all over nasty political happenings for profit for over a hundred years.


Please, read the Robbins article linked below. Then respond

[Stuckinthebush]

21. Unbecoming of a DUer, huh...

Well, FYI, I have read the "history" of the skull and bones. I have read the interview. I have read the conspiracy theroy web sites.

While they may have been more in the late 1800s, I seriously doubt that they have the power that you are claiming. It used to be that all fraternal organizations had more "power" over the lives of their members, but not much so any more. Sure, you have the KAs who have a weird fascination with the Old South and continue their fraternal connections into older adulthood, but even most of these guys tire of it.

I suspect the following with S&B. As with many exclusive societies, they only allow in members who already come from wealth and privelege. So, it is not S&B that propels these young men to power, it is the fact that they were born on third base to begin with. S&B is just another aspect of that privelege.

I imagine that the whole satanic stuff is not real or at best, is a set of weird fraternal rituals that get blown up into the absurd as the years go by. For all that Bush is, he certainly is no Satan worshiper.

By the way, I think that skeptism is a very health trait for a DUer. It has served me well over the years.

[seventhson]

36. You totally ignore the CIA/Shadow government issue

Skull has been a recruitment and proving ground for spooks and corporate spies since way before WWII.

The top recruiter for the CIA in its initial stages was a Boneser in the 1940's. These are NOT fraternal organizations: they are secret militaristic orders of discpline. The satanic stuff is just a front to add to the mystique. It IS a social entity -- but it is a sociopolitical entity - it binds them together socially (just like the prep schools do), They know each others' sexual secrets and I would bet that their oath is an oath under threat of death. They then progress to the corporate and financial world -- wall street , oil companies, or government service (CIA, Military intelligence, maybe a military contractor like Halliburton)

It is so frustrating that folks who know very little (or who pretend to knopw a lot) have no real idea WHO these people are and how they operate.

NOT like your regular namby pamby animal house or even masonic lodges


Believe me, neither Kerry nor Bush are tiring of the perks of being a Bonesman. They have literally MILLIONS of dollars if not Billions to draw on foir their "work" of protecting the crimes of their members .


Those who are trusted are let into the inner sanctums of wall street corruption and international coups d'etat. It is a life and death business FOR life.

[Stuckinthebush]

42. OK...you win

Skull and Bones is out to get us all. If Kerry gets the Dem nomination, then he will surely appoint all of his S&B budies to positions of power thereby fulfilling an oath he took when he was 20 years old.

I'm sure there will be some Satanic rituals in the White House as well.

I think I'll go read some astrology threads.

[seventhson]

46. Yuck Foo

History will teach you

eom

[seventhson]

53. Great -- and read the Alexandra Robbins interview while you're at it.

First thing Bush did was appoint a bunch of his Skull buddies to positions in the Homeland Security etc when he got a chance.

YOU read fiction and fantasy.

I will read history,

[Andy_Stephenson]

27. Kerry said on meet the press.

Russert: You both were members of Skull and bones a secret society at yale, what does that tell us?

Kerry: ah...Not much because it is a secret

Russert: Is there a secret handshake? Is there a secret code?

Kerry: I wish there were something secret I could manifest.

Russert: 322 Secret number

Kerry: There are all kinds of secrets Tim......


Now excuse me...if it were nothing as some have suggested...why does Kerry still recruit and why sidestep the issue?

[seventhson]

33. GTFOH!!! He Said that?

Holy moses!


Good for Russert.
322 (Year of the debate icon who is Skull's "god" - I forget his name (Demosthenes or something like that) but he convinced the Greek masses to war through his silver-tongued orations, I think)

Surpirsied that Russert got tyhat far with it.

F%%kin' assh*le, Kerry.

[Andy_Stephenson]

37. Yeah

lemme post the video for you.

[Stuckinthebush]

38. I wouldn't tell Russert the secrets of Theta Chi

Not that they are that incredible, but they are "secrets".

[sangha]

7. I guess it should bother me,

but for some odd reason, it does not. :shrug:

[seventhson]

19. because you are uninformed

the more you know the worse it gets.

Most people prefer denial and psychic numbing.

Once you rtealize that the Bushes and Rumsfeld and Ashcroft and Mueller and the rest are basically Nazis who never believed the war was over (and you become aware that it was Skull and Bonesmen who financed and provided the PR for Hitler DURING WWII) you will see that such Nazi-like secret :Orders" for the wealthiest and the most greedy and sociopathic war mongers among them -- you may actually start to care that one of them is posing as a liberal democrat whom a lot of very misled folks are supporting.

The Nazis did not lose WWII. They just got a new logo and moved their headquarters to Texas.

[John_H]

8. Oh. Ma. God. Like John was in suuuuuuch the wrong house.

amd like, it was like 40 years ago, and like he was like 19, but Oh. Ma. God. why couldn't he be like a Kappa Sig. They are soooooo cute. Oh. Ma. God.

[aquaman]

9. I am a member too

But I can't tell you anything about it. It's top secret. Well got to go and do BAD things now, so bye bye.

[cosmicdot]

10. skull & bones is hardly TKE, Phi Kappa Tau or Sigma Nu

Bush was in a "social" frat, too.

don't say no one didn't forewarn

[Brother Buzz]

11. The Skull and Bones are the Skull and Bones, but

the real threat is the Bohemian Club. If you could find it, a list of members reads like a book of who's who of oligarchical Fat Cats, and will raise a few eyebrows! They make the Skull and Bones look Bush* league. Heck, they spawned Reagan, promoted both Bushes, and I now believe they are attempting an encore with Arnie! Be very leary of the them. Hush!!!! The Grove is the epicenter of corruption and crime in the world. Weird, a powerful Conservative bastion located right in the middle of the liberals backyard. Check them out.

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/elites.html

[seventhson]

18. Bohemian Club IS skull and Bones for post graduates

same people, same puerile infantilism and fascist bloodlust, same crimes, same resumes, same danger.

Trying to make skull look unimportant by raising this is ridiculous. It is basically just the sme people with a new place to f*ck off outside New Haven and the St. Lawrence River Island Compound they use for retreats.

I agree it is dangerous, But it does NOT oiutrank Skull. It basically IS skull.

Just like the Trilateral Commission (Rockefeller, Brzezinski, Carter) WAS the Council on Foreign Relations just under another rubric.

[AntiCoup2K4]

13. If John Kerry wants the Democratic nomination...

He should call a press conference before the corporate media and renounce both Skull & Bones and any votes he made in favor of the PNAC fascist agenda (i.e. the Shitriot Act and Iraq invasion).

Unless he does both, there is no reason to expect him to be any better than the Bush criminals and their other S & B cronies.

[Cooley Hurd]

28. I agree.

S&B and all "secret societies" like it have no place in our modern world. It's something that makes me uncomfortable about the Kerry candidacy and I, for one, wish he would address it. Until then, my support is for Dr Dean.

[cosmicdot]

35. why hasn't Yale banned S&B? who's new to the organization?

... it might continue outside ... but, Yale would, at least, be making a statement ... would they let the KKK organize and recruit at Yale?

I'm interested in knowing who has been 'tapped' in the 80s and 90s to S&B ... I've seen lists up to a certain point in time, but not who we should be keeping an eye on 'early' in the game

[Cooley Hurd]

41. because S&B owns Yale...

...with the Stonecutters!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:d6Hxas8xwRAC:
Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscars night?
We do! We do!

[JohnKleeb]

43. the stonecutters I loved that episode

the new message made by yours truly
Who keeps Dennis Kucinich from winning the democratic primary
We do! We do!
Sorry I had to say that.

[jenm]

84. it was funny n/t

[birdman]

15. Skulls !!! Bones !!!!

http://web1.ami-admin.com/perl/trackimage.pl?I=53420&H=weeklyworldnews%2Ecom&Image=http%3A%2F%2Fweb1%2Eami%2Dadmin%2Ecom%2Fimages%2F45658%2Ejpg

[seventhson]

17. Bullshit and Drones. Blood and Phoneys. Ahh well : Alexandra Robbins

Here's the Alexandra Robbins interview. A must read if you give a shit about whether this Kerry assh*le should be president or whether he might be

be.http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc794.html

[blm]

22. Alexandra Robbins said Kerry did NOT get ahead through S&B

and ACHIEVED position on his OWN merit, unlike Bush who used it for EVERYTHING.

And she said so right here on DU before posts like yours where you said she was a BFEE tool drove her away.

[birdman]

23. Kerry helped the Bushies kill JFK, RFK, Wellstone

John Lennon, JFK Jr., John Heinz (had to make
sure that ketchup money went to a fellow bonesman).

But then I must work for Karl Rove.


Those boners have the strawberries - I just know it.

[seventhson]

47. She WAS used by the BFEE/Skull boys. Read Ron Rosenbaum...

*NYObserver) for the details. I have posted them before.

But she came clean as time went by and actually gave a great interview to the guerilla news AFTER stumbling thrrough here unable to explain the "problem" with her text about Rosenbaum (another Yalie who has exposed Skull and its improprieties and criminalities) which had to be deleted from her book as it was false (and fed to her by the Skulls themselves)

I will get the details on what she said and post them below sionce, ONCE AGAIN you have twisted and spun the facts to suit Kerry's goal of power for his Yale elitist spooksters and canard artists.

[seventhson]

50. Kerry's family CONTROLS Skull and Bones. He did not need it to get ahead

His family, the Forbes Family, now one of the largest global real estate families - which started in the Chinese Opium trade in the 1800's and now is in business in everywhere from Vietnam to Burma to Indonesia (nice friends too), FOUNDED Skull and Bones.


He was already stinking rich.

He is the RICHEST GODDAMN SENATOR!!! Get IT?

He doesn't NEED Skull and Bones. BUT KERRY IS DEEP IN IT WITH THE BUSHES AND HIS FAMILY HAS BEEN FOR ALMOST 180 YEARS!!!

Kerry did NOT NEED Skull TO GET WHERE HE IS. BUT HE USED IT TO KEEP WHAT HE HAS.

Anyway, folks -- read the Alexandra Robbins interview and decide for yourself. She WAS here promoting her book and I DID give her a hard time about the fact thatr she was USED by the Skulls to spread a specific lie about Ron Rosenbaum (another invesdtigative reporter for the NYObserver) which had to be deleted from the book after he and his lawyers complained. It was a very weasily set of circumstances and she let herself get used withour fact checking the Skull version of events and she got burned (kinda reminded me of Hatfield and Fortunate Son in a way). I believe now she was incautious but not intentionally false anbd that she has NOW corrected the deficiencies I saw in her book by this interview which is exceptionally eye opening.


Everyone who has to make a chaoice for or against Kerry in the coming primaries MUST read this -- or else they will be ill informed in the extreme.

Don't believe a word I say.

Read what SHE says in the interview posted below.

Read the whole Alexandra Robbins set of posts below.

[blm]

52. The Nazi's burned down Kerry's mother's home

and Kerry's grandfather on his father's side was Jewish, yet you claim that his family supported Bush and Hitler.

Kerry went to Yale with his tuition paid by a childless aunt, because his parents didn't have as much money at the time as many here like to believe. He had a job to cover his other expenses. That really sounds like Bush doesn't it?

[seventhson]

57. Once again Links? Facts? Sources? Lies?

Dammit, Loves-Moonies, you always state stuff with no links or evidence. Then you make stuff up outta whole clother.

I KNOW why you do it -- but I need to keep reminded everyone here THAT you do it so as to demonstrate how you spin things beyond recognition.


My claim was that the Kerry-Forbes family has a great deal of influence in Skull and Bones. They FOUNDED and FINANCED it and presumably (though their finances are secret) they STILL control it. I also claimed that members of Skull and Bones FINANCED and arranged FINANCING foir Hitler. These were prominent Skull families in the 1930's- Walkers, Bushes, and Harrimans. The fascist destabilization of democracies, including other efforts like the bay of pigs invasion (which Bush was close to) ALL had their roots in members of Skull. Fascism, my friend. Pure and simple.

To me it is a fascist and criminal organization and we Americans have NO BUSINESS electing someone who comes out of it.

LOOK WHAT WE GOT IN THE LAST TWO BONESERS, THING I AND THING II (BUSH AND BUSH)

DO WE REALLY WANT A REPEAT OF THAT ELITIST IDEALOGY?

If you want to paint Kerry as a poor relative of Bushes when he was a student, then so be it. Very few pooor kids go to St. Pauls Episcopal Prep School (with FBI head Robert Mueller no less as his boys hoickey teammate) let alone Yale. You need connections and money.

Kerry has always had wealth. He went to school in Switzerland for Christs sake. What kind of bullshit are you spinning.

Links if you have any, madam. At ten paces.

[blm]

59. YOU ARE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH!

It happens to be in the Joe Klein New Yorker piece and the Boston Globe series on Kerry. GFY!!!!

And, you nonobservant student of humanity, I have always been a FEMALE and have said so many times. SOME perception.

[seventhson]

64. "It" means what precisely?

IF Kerry's family was persecuted by the Nazis then this underscores his own hypocrisy and absence of conscience by not only keeping skull a secret -- but by continuing his loyalty to an organization whose members FINANCED Hitler.

Your claim abouyt me was totally untrue. I never said that Kerry;s family was DIRECTLY involved with Hitler.

These are sociopolitical networks, They MAY have been or may NOT have been. But the fact is that THEIR organization's MEMBERS were Financiers and were encouraged and HELPED by their skull connections to get to that situation.

I do NOT trtust a thing Klein says (remember "anonymous" Primary Colors? he is a media whore who is untrustworthy)

If you post links, though, I will read them. That is my point.

Re: Gender: On THIS board I don't trust what anybody SAYS they are and with 30,000 plus DUers I forget sometimes what people SAY they are.

But you , for better or worse, kinda fight and argue like a guy. And since the beginning when you were bashing Gore and sucking up to Kerry I assumed that you were not what you claim to be.

[blm]

66. I never bashed Gore.

I said he had uneven public performances because he suffered from STAGE FRIGHT. And you use that to bust me for bashing.

I also used Gore as an example to prove that your charges against Kerry are absurd. You said that Kerry let Bush off the hook on BCCI and IranContra, yet it was the Senate leaders who would not lert Kerry continue on the select committee because they considered him TOO HOT.

It was Poppy Bush's pardons that let IranContra figures off, yet you blame Kerry.

I countered that it could be said that Gore covered up for Poppy more than Kerry because it was Gore who supported IranContra and Gore who pushed BCCI and IranContra off the front pages with his "dirty lyrics" hearings. I didn't say it as fact, I said it as an example of how absurd YOUR accusations against Kerry are.

[seventhson]

70. Ohhhh Mush!!!!

That is old history now. Sorry I mentioned it as I cannot resurrect those threads and prove you WRONG on this.

You used Karl Rove's and the DLC's talking points (You and Will Pitt) to attack Gore and Promote Kerry.


Kerry's conclusions narely even mention Bush when Kerry had the goods on him. Kerry let him go.

BUT another red herring response.

ARGUE THE ROBBINS ISSUES WILLYA, instead of rehashing old stale arguments?

SHE says Skull members do NOT belong in power. That it is DANGEROUS.

Rebuttal?

[blm]

76. That was what that audience wanted to hear.

When she was here and on television she downplayed the "spooky" aspect.

Go ahead and prove that I used Rove talking points on Gore. I DARE you.


You can't do it, because I NEVER bashed Gore. I held YOUR theory up to ridicule using Gore as an example, but, I could have used ANY other senator at the time who didn't focus on the BCCI investigation.

[blm]

61. I didn't SAY he was poor, why are you NOT telling the truth?

I said he didn't have the fortune that many believe.

And you make claims about Kerry with NO proof other than articles about Skull and Bones and the Bushes, but, NOT about Kerry himself.

[seventhson]

71. now if that is not prevarication I don't know what is.

My favorite source for Kerry is the Globe article from 1996 which exposes him as a pompous fraud


http://www.boston.com/globe/specialreports/1996/oct/senate/jk106.htm

[blm]

73. Where does it connect him to the BFEE?

.

[JVS]

24. Do any of the candidates belong to Phi Beta Kappa?

For once I'd like to see them belong to a good 'secret society'?

www.pbk.org

[SpiralHawk]

25. Kick - dem Bones

Outa the White House.

[Cocoa]

26. are you people equally worried about Bustamante?

one of the lamer attacks on Cruz is that he won't denounce his membership while in college in Mecha.

Are you worried that Cruz will pursue pursue his group's anti-anglo agenda if he's elected?

[AntiCoup2K4]

30. Did Mecha finance Adolf HItler??

If not, I'm not that concerned about them.

[disgruntella]

31. someone needs to get Howard Dean's old yearbooks

I just BET he was in that well-known fascist movement -- FUTURE FARMERS OF AMERICA! </sarcasm>

[Tammuz]

32. skull and bones IS illuminati and Nazi

The german soldiers wore the skull and bones insignia and Bush grandfather (skull and bones) funded hitler.

[Cocoa]

34. you want to know how I can tell S&B is a GOP-encouraged smear story?

because it's so fucking STUPID.

Extreme stupidity is a BIG red flag for me in a story.

[Emperor_Norton_II]

44. "german soldiers wore the skull and bones insignia"

So did Capt. Edward Teach, aka the dread pirate Blackbeard. Does this mean Blackbeard was a Yalie? Think carefully before you answer.

Yrs in tinfoil,

[Fla_Democrat]

74. So does my "cat-claw"

http://www.deadontools.maasdam.com/do_exumer.html
The Death Stick Exhumer is More Than a Nail Puller. Buried The Nail In The Wrong Board? No worries, just dig it up with the Death Stick Exhumer. Lose your circular saw wrench? No problem, the Exhumer’s got one built right in. Need a drink? We can’t help you there, but if you find a bottle, the Exhumer also comes with a handy bottle opener.

Ok, it was the bottle opener that sold me on it. :evilgrin: :beer:

[blm]

54. Nazi's BURNED DOWN Kerry's mother's HOME

and his father's father was Jewish. You say they helped Bush fund Hitler?

[oasis]

77. Hitler's armed forces had various insignia. Why single out only one?

I don't recall seeing a pic of Adolph wearing s&b. Could it be his commanders adopted a pirate design for it's "tough guy" historical significance?

[TheBigGuy]

80. brief history of the skull and bones insignia in Prussian army

This came from a Prussian hussar (cavalry) regiment, of the time of Fredrick the Great and was later adopted by the Duke of Brunswick (Braunschweig) for his cavalry.

Both the hussar unit and the Brunswick cavalry used the skull and bones AND the black uniform.

The "Black Brunswickers" played a roll in the battle of Waterloo, where they fought w. Wellington and Blucher against Napoleon.

So, by adopting the black uniform and skull & bones insiginia Hitler was using an old traditional identifier for a crack elite unit.

Nothing sinister here.

[TheBigGuy]

81. German connection to Yale skull & bones....

From this website:

http://www.winterboy.com/DejaVu1.html

The club's cryptic Skull & Bones iconography is borrowed from old German university societies, and is later used by freemasonic sects as well as the Prussian and Imperial German armies (symbolizing German military might). In the 20th century, Hitler’s SS Death Squads will adopt the Skull & Bones, or ‘Totenkopf’ (Death’s Head), as their primary icon.

Now this is a fascinating connection.

Read Van Wyck Brooks' "The Flowering of New England", which is sort of a literary and intellectual history of New England through the transcendetalist movement.

Brooks makes the point that a number of younger New Englanders went off to do graduate work or university work in Germany, to the great German universities such as Gottingen, and that the German universtities influenced them as models when they became professors and administrators at the Ivy League schools such as Harvard and Yale...transforming these Ivy League institutions into true universities instead of glorified divinity schools.

So it appears they borrowed the idea of the secret society and fraternity from the Germans, too...down to the insignia (in the case of skull and bones).

However, these secret societys must have been prior to the more famous dueling fraternitys , which where a much more recent product...of the period of Napoleon and just after.

[KC21304]

86. But don't you know that the Duke of Brunswick was Kerrry's

Great, Great, Great, Great Grandfather's best friend and when they were 12 yrs old they started this secret club with black uniforms with skull and bones. They exchanged blood and everything so you know what that means. Kerry has to abide by everything his forefather swore to back then. And it is really, really, really SECRET.

And if any of you don't believe this you are just ignorant, and yuck foo ! I didn't think I could say that on here but If Seventhson can I guess it must be okay.


Just trying to raise the level of discourse here.

[TheBigGuy]

88. ROFTL....! Glad to see we are on the same wavelength.....

...this skull and bones stuff is always a great opportunity to discourse on my arcane knowlege of the petty states of the Holy Roman Empire and their military insignia.

[Octafish]

39. So what? Better to consider what Kerry has DONE. He's a GOOD GUY!

Unlike Bush in the TexANG, Kerry went to Vietnam and risked his life for his country and the men under his command. He learned the importance of service from his father and his childhood hero, JFK.

Unlike Dean on the ski slopes, Kerry came back from Vietnam and opposed the same war, using his status as a war hero to change public perceptions of the conflict.

Unlike Bush the oilman, Kerry used his connections, positions and gifts to entere a career in public service, going after the Mafia as a Massachusetts prosecutor and the BCCI — the axis of oil money, drug money, international terrorists, and bi-partisan corruption — as a Senator.

No offense, Wonk: But if Kerry was a crook, he wouldn't be sticking his neck out for any of the above. He could create a nice resume based on his connections and pay someone else to take the risks for him — like the connected have for centuries.

So, I say: "Big deal!" if he's in a Secret Societ. Big deal if he's a SPY for the CIA. I don't care because he's on our side — the side of the United States, the Constitution, and its people. That's what his entire life has shown!

Was JFK Skull and Bones, too? I don't think so.



Check our John Kerry on the left. You don't think he's going to go after the REAL CROOKS behind the assassination of the guy in the middle? You know he WILL and that's why I'm for Kerry — Skull and Bones or no. John Kerry is a GOOD GUY!

[Andy_Stephenson]

40. He thinks the same of Bush*

said he was a "Likeable guy, trying to do good"

In the same interview.

[seventhson]

48. Author Robbins REAL story about Kerry and Skull documented

Excerpt from interview link posted above in the Alexandra Robbins thread (this says much more than her book actually did in many ways according to Newsday's Ron Rosenbaum)


So what is the prevailing wisdom around Skull and Bones? What is some of the mythology?


People generally believe that Skull & Bones operates a secret world government, that it controls foreign policy, that it’s a wealthy landowner that guarantees its members power and financial security for life. They believe that members are associated with the Nazis, that they controlled the atomic bomb, and that they lead the nation into war every chance they get.


And so from your research did you find confirmation to these theories?


I was actually surprised because there was a lot more basis to these theories than I had expected. For example, members of the Skull & Bones did indeed oversee the deployment of the atomic bomb. They did choreograph the Bay of Pigs invasion. They did fund Hitler when they could. But it wasn’t the organization pulling the strings. It was the individual members. There are cliques within Skull & Bones that tend to gather together and elevate each other to power and then exert their control and influence… It’s not that Skull & Bones as an entity is specifically and directly pulling the strings. It’s that individuals within the secret society are pushing each other to positions of authority and working their influence from there.



As soon as Bush got into the White House, one of the first social gatherings he had was a reunion of his Skull & Bones members. Then almost immediately he started appointing other members of Skull & Bones into positions into the Justice Department and later the Office of Homeland Security.

[blm]

55. "There are cliques within Skull and Bones"

DUH!

You attach Kerry to Bush family acts with NO EVIDENCE!

Dean and Bush's grandmothers were close friends who stood up at each others weddings. Does that make Dean part of the BFEE's longtime social structure?

[JVS]

56. Can we take a look at the bigger picture for a moment.

Or national ruling class is a tightly knit oligarchy and will serve their interests at our expense. Why should we vote for these people?

[seventhson]

60. Exactly

We may have no choice but to vote for SOMEONE from that class --- but do we have to support one who belongs to a secret order which took an oath which superscedes their oath of office and is committed to preservation of their"Order" first and foremost.

Dean and Gore may come from that elite --- but at leasst I actually believe they have sought the office to HELP their fellow citizens.

For people like Bush and Kerry it is all about ego and protecting their greedy asses, money , power and prevention of criminal indictments against them and their fmilies for crimes against humanity.

[JVS]

62. It's disgusting

[blm]

63. Don't. But Kerry is not in league with Bush

and NONE of seventhson's THIRTY YEARS OF RESEARCH has shown Kerry to be part of the Bush-Nazi connection. In fact, seventhson only found out 2 years ago that Kerry was S&B, but NOT thru researching Nazis and Bush. Now he paints EVERYONE in S&B as Bush imperialists.

When seventhson shows ONE legitimate story that proves that Kerry is part of the BFEE then I'll listen.

[seventhson]

68. Skull and Bones and the BFEE are partsof one fascist operation

I only really NOTICED that Kerry was Skull after YOU started bashing Gore and playing up Kerry. I did some research and WHOOPS, THERE IT IS!!!

The Skull and Bones connection was NOT high on my radar much before election 2000 and Kerry was not in sight (and I was not on DU).

I KNEW about the Ivy League and prep school connections to the Bush/Dulles corrupt CIA clique as well as the Dulles connection to the JFK assassination.

IU also knew about the CIA-Yale ties to the destabilization of democrcies abroad. But I did NOT really link Skull in until I started reading their membership lists.

When I discovered that the Yale Hitler backers were all skull as were the guys behind the assasination of Che, the bay of pigs, the assasination of Diem, Lumumba, the guy in Guatemala, Mossadegh in Iran and Allende in Chile I FINALLY GOT THE POINT!

A little more research and I discovered that Skull mern were the chief personnel officers at the CIA in the fifties and sicties through the JFK assassination and after.


The fact that Kerry was Skull was NOT known to me until a few years ago as he was a relative nonentity in the power grid.

The BUSH ties to the Nazis I discovered from Loftus's book about six or seven years ago (1996-7). Thereafter I inteviewed Loftus for a radio program and learned more.

I KNEW they (the Bushes) were linked in (probably to the JFK assassination via the Hunt Brothers in Texas - Oilmen)and obviously to the CIA AND Yale --- but I did NOT know of their Skull business until I read Tarpley during the 2000 election cycle.

So my background of research has more recently focussed on these sociopolitical ties of the filthy rich mostly waspy (with some notable exceptions of Muslim oil families and some Jews) elitists. I was aware of these ties earlier to the institutions but did not grasp the details until the intertnet revolution and my plugging into it.

Hitler was financed and promoted and even guided by Americans (many from Harvard and Yale and Princeton) especially by Wall Street and ESPECIALLY by the Bushes and other Skull members.


READ Robbins, though, she wraps it up nicely.

NONE of these Skull bastards (whose members financed Hitler and who thereby connect the whole organization to the crimes, at least by sociopolitical and economic association) should be president.

Not Kerry.

Not Bush.


Since Skull IS BFEE --- Kerry's membership in Skull makes HIM BFEE.

THAT is my opinion. You are free, ma'am, at your and all of our risk, to think it is okey dokey with you.

[Andy_Stephenson]

82. "Dean and Bush's grandmothers were close friends "

I need a link to this.

[seventhson]

83. Actually Yes. But that is different than the sociopolitical structure

Dean was at Yale around the same time (or just after) Bush.

They are part of the same social network in anthropological or sociopolitical terms. They are both clearly part of the power elite.

But there are degrees of distance --- and then there are the VERYCLOSE sociopolitical ties : like membership in a secret order for life (Kerry and Bush in SAkull and Bones) which one family Founded (Kerry-Forbes) and the other has had three or four or more generations of membership (Bush-Walkers). BOTH their families have connections to Skull which go back a century or more. THAT is the deal.

Going to or even participating in a wedding (by the females who were not permitted INTO Skull anbd Bones until recently)is NOT the same thing at all. It IS a social nexus -- but NOT a political one.

I worry more, frankly, about Dean's father and brother who had tries to the CIA. But the info on that is very sketchy at best. And when you compare it to Kerry or Bush's connections it seems almost trivial a concern (but not quite).



If Dean were Skull and Bones (or even Book and Snake) I would be hardpressed to support him.

[KC21304]

85. What if someone were Bell, Book, Candle and Snake,

and silly, and looney, and just plain NUTS !!!!!!!!!!!

[seventhson]

49. Alexandra Robbins Interview: On Skull and Kerry Part II

Robbins:

I think the fact that Skull & Bones has another president in power is just another mode of encouragement that will lead it to continue its traditions and lead it to continue to do what it has always done. And I think the current political scene is probably evidence of that. In 2000, let’s look at the four men who were on the ballot. You had George W. Bush, a member of Skull & Bones. You had Al Gore, a graduate of Harvard. You had Dick Cheney who is distantly related to a family of Skull & Bonesmen. And you had Joseph Lieberman who was a member of another secret society at Yale. In 2004, it could very well be the first Bones vs. Bones ballot, with George W. Bush against Senator John Kerry, a 1966 graduate of Skull & Bones. It seems that we see the same cycles of people over and over again and, as much as we say this is 2002, this is America, this is a democracy, we are still seeing the candidates coming from the same tiny political pool.


Q: So how do you feel about that? Describe the implications for us.


Frankly I don’t think members of Skull & Bones should be running the country. I don’t feel comfortable with a group that’s historically been misogynistic, has had anti-Semitic members, has been prejudiced in the past, and has been linked with Hitler and the atomic bomb. I don’t think these people should have such an influence on our country, and yet we see them in journalism, in business, running the CIA, running the Supreme Court and running the U.S. government. I think the only way to tear this society down is to penetrate its secrets and to spread awareness about it so that people know what’s going on and when they see politicians capitalizing on Skull & Bones, constituents can call them on it.


Q:So by reporting on it, how do we ensure that we are not just fueling the fire and doing all the PR for them, what is the other side that needs to be exposed to make it clear what’s going on?


I think people need to pay more attention to organizations like Skull & Bones so that whenever, for example, George W. Bush appoints another cabinet member, he’ll be scrutinized – he won’t easily be able to just elevate somebody from Skull & Bones because people will be watching and people will be able to call him on it and the press will be able to confront him on his secret society leadership. A lot of people have a problem with the fact that George W. Bush was a member of a secret society. I have gotten a lot of emails from people essentially saying that if a society is secret it can’t be hiding something good.

[seventhson]

51. Link to Alexandra Robbins interview on Skull and Bones and Kerry

http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc794.html

If you do not read this entire article then do not try to argue with me or anyone else about Skull and Bones and the dangerousd nature of the bullshit artist Kerry's association with this group of murderous thugs and creeps.

I will assume you are too ignorant to talk with the grownups.


Don't take my word for ANYTHING!!!

READ the article. It is a little too soft and fluffy jopurnalistically for even my tastes in my opinion, but it makes the critical points that we ALL here (who vote at all) need to know in the next severl months.

Can Kerry be trusted or is he a bad seed from the elite planted among us to protect the very richest white people in the world?

You know how I feel. Now YOU read this article and make up your own mind before BLM tells you NOT to read it and buy her (his?) arguments that Kerry's membership in Skull is harmless as a bowl of pablum.

[blm]

58. I never tell anyone not to read it, why lie?

Alexandra Robbins said right here at DU that Kerry and Bush are nothing alike. YOU badgered her and had others do so, too.

[seventhson]

65. But you try to dissuade them from reading it. Anyway... WHAT DO U SAY

when Robbins says THIS?:

"Frankly I don’t think members of Skull & Bones should be running the country. I don’t feel comfortable with a group that’s historically been misogynistic, has had anti-Semitic members, has been prejudiced in the past, and has been linked with Hitler and the atomic bomb. I don’t think these people should have such an influence on our country, and yet we see them in journalism, in business, running the CIA, running the Supreme Court and running the U.S. government. I think the only way to tear this society down is to penetrate its secrets and to spread awareness about it so that people know what’s going on and when they see politicians capitalizing on Skull & Bones, constituents can call them on it."

Whether or NOT Kerry and Bush are exactly the same or even nothing alike (which I think is NOT what she said. And, for the record,I think she had it wrong.

But Kerry did NOT need Skull and Bush did, she implied. They both have USED it though in my opinion and the reason it concerns me is summed up by Robbins in the above paragraph.

READ THAT.

Does that sound like Bush and Kerry's membership does not make them similar in their DANGER TO AMERICA? Maybe there are degrees of such danger. Degrees oif fascism and deceit.

But I think it is better to have a "leader" you KNOW is a criminal to one who you IS a criminal but pretends he's not.

[blm]

67. I never tried dissuading ANYONE from reading it, either.

You attach bullshit laden with your own resentments to make your case. Weak.

[seventhson]

69. By dissembling Ms. Robbins words it may be inferred that you are trying to

say I am wrong about her point of view.

You may not SAY not to read her -- but you are NOT arguing with what she says in the interview -- you are arguing, without links a\or backup, about a conversatiuon months and months ago that is NOT necessarily consistent with her views AFTER she came through here rather breezily. You are raIsing A RED HERRING THAT IS NOT A PROPOS THE LINKED ARTICLE.You are deflecting attention AWAY from the article

I wish she would come back and prove you SOOO wrong.

But -- Tell You What, Madam. Let;'s argue the merits of her POSITION in the article and put the rest of the finger pointing behind us. I DO feel that your tactic was to get peoplke NOT to read her interview. But I COULD be wrong.

But if we debate the issues in the article then we can get back to the facts and the real opinions.

[blm]

78. It may be inferred = bad tapdance for your accusation.

What a waste.

[seventhson]

72. Must Read: Alexandra Robbins Interview about Kerry and Skull and Bones

http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc794.html

[Impeach Whistle Ass]

75. I knew a guy in high school who could have been a Bonesman if he wanted

He was related to McGeorge Bundy andWilliam McBundy, east coast establishment types and Bonesmen. He had the grades, could have gotten into Yale and from there S&B no problem. When he went to U Chicago I wondered why he'd pass up such an inside track. Never asked him though, cause he hated my guts.

[seventhson]

79. I know a nimch of them. I went to school with them.

McGeorge gave me my first beer when I was 14 at his house. Okay?

on edit: damn eyes are going: I know a bunch of them (shoulda learned touch typing in high school. Sorry)

But the above is a true story.

[hedda_foil]

87. I think it's critical to remember Harriman before dissing S&B links...

I'm old enough to remember Harriman from his Senatorial days when he was considered a fine, upstanding Democratic leader. In fact, I even recall some presidential buzz around him in the '50's. Then he became the "grand old man" and behind the scenes kingmaker of the party. Throughout his career, he (and later, his wife Pamela, who was at best a power groupie and at worst a plant)was considered to be virtually without blemish in Democratic circles.

We've since learned that this SOB partnered with Prescott Bush and his fascist father-in-law in business and Nazi finance. We've since learned that he was deeply involved in trading with the enemy in time of war. We've since learned that the supposed patriotism and party loyalty of both Sen. Prescott Bush and Sen. Averill Harriman had everything to do with power and nothing to do with any values that any of us would consider to be either American or democratic (small d)

Harriman's father sponsored Prescott into S&B (see Tarpley). Prescott, Harriman and John J. Rockefeller Jr were S&B buddies at the same time. The current (supposedly Dem) John J. Rockefeller is playing the same game.

Yes, I question Boners who rise to political power. I expect them to have influence. It's the way the game is played. I really don't care to have any of them as my president. I'd rather play it safe when it comes to giving any of them a chance at running my country if you don't mind.