Some truths from an old female about abortion. Making it illegal will not

[efhmc]

make it not happen. It will only make it unavailable in a clean, clinical environment and it will kill women. Is that what you want? No, well, then work to teach boys and girls, men and women how to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Yet the same freaking, fracking fools that think abortion is a sin, murder, manslaughter, etc are the same ones that do not want any information about pregnancy prevention taught anywhere but in ones own home. Yeah, those are the same parents that don't have the time or inclination to teach their children how to practice good nutrition, acceptable social skills, respect for their own bodies, much less respect for others. When I was in college abortion was illegal. It still happened. Those with money and connections had them and those without had babies. I worked for many years with a group to prevent child abuse. There are many, many children who would have been better off not being born. When those with blinders about abortion see babies that have been burned, battered, broken and abused like animals, then they might know that those darling would have been better off not being born. I still find it so hypocritical that those crying out against abortion do not have all the unwanted, broken, AIDS, crack cocaine babies in their homes.

[NVMojo]

1. I wish politicians would keep their dumb arse morals and noses out

of this very personal issue, especially since not a one of them has made the world a better place to breed in....

[efhmc]

4. I so wish someone would explain to me why those who see themselves

as the defenders of personal liberties, go nazi when it come to a woman's body?

[BamaLefty]

2. Exactly

Instead of having a Doc perform it...

a clotheshanger will be inserted up the vagina and the fetus will be scrambled like an egg. Now how 'bout that?

[cally]

3. And more women will die

and more children will be born who are unwanted. I do not for a second believe that women will not still have abortions no matter what insane laws are passed. The only question is whether we act to prevent or punish (stolen from another DUer).

[efhmc]

5. Those idiots that hate Planned Parenthood, should always be quoted

their motto, "that every child should be a wanted child". The entire world would be a much better place if that were always the case.

[iamjoy]

7. But They Say Every Child Is Wanted

And to give the baby up for adoption.

And they say what if the baby who would have grown up to cure AIDS, Cancer, etc was aborted in womb. And I say what if Hitler's mother had gotten an abortion?

[efhmc]

9. Well, I always have wondered if the person that could have cured

those diseases, found an alternative clean fuel source and fed all the people on earth was killed in WW2. Those are questions we have no answer to but we can live our own lives in the best and most productive way possible and that means giving the control to the person who is here now, doing the work and living the best way she knows how. In other words, make your own decisions the best way you possibly can.

[iamjoy]

6. Read Some History of Abortion Laws

the original abortion laws were to protect women.
They had nothing (or not as much) to do with the debate over when life begins, as it had to do with quackery.

When I first read this I thought it was kind of weird, because there wasn't so much fuss to stop all other kinds of snake oil.

But remember, when abortion was illegal in the U.S. the penalties were for the doctor, not the woman having the abortion.

[efhmc]

10. You are right. The emphasis and the onus have shifted to the woman.

Why do you think that is?

[DemBones DemBones]

11. Not only that but Susan B. Anthony & other early feminists OPPOSED

abortion, not only because it was physically dangerous for women but because they thought women should not be in a situation where they would choose to destroy their own child. They believed abortion was bad for women.

[efhmc]

15. If we actually lived in a civilized society where one was taught about

the care and control of ones own body, then so many of these problems would not exist. But our right wing, science hating, small minded, idiotic right wing control loving freaks think that banning something will make it disappear. When the intelligent, rational approach is education and open mindedness in all issues. But that is not going to happen any time soon in the US of Asinine bush.

[iamjoy]

26. Some Are Trying That Now

that abortion should be criminal because it is harmful to women. It is a back door tactic. Making it illegal will make it dangerous for women. With all of the medical advances in the past 100 years, abortion is several times "safer" than childbirth, I don't think this was necessarily the case back then.

And many of the suffragettes did support birth control.

[Redleg]

8. Well stated. I don't want to return to the days of back alley abortions.

Or unwanted children being born.

[efhmc]

12. I had been away for a few days and was appalled when I returned to

DU to see so much discussion that was anti-prochoice being bandied about. What happened?

[Redleg]

14. The usual "triangulation" to determine where Dems should stand on abortion

[babylonsister]

16. Well, I just found the end of this thread and I'm

flummoxed also. I was about to agree w/your initial observaitons!

[DemBones DemBones]

13. I think abortion is a sin and murder but I support contraception and sex

education. Not all pro-lifers are "freaking, franking fools," you see.

Someone I know was abused by both her biological and adoptive parents, and has suffered emotionally for more than sixty years because of it, but she is still glad to have been born, opposes abortion, and supports adoption.

It's easy to say someone "should never have been born" when the someone isn't YOU.

[babylonsister]

17. Where are you from, how old, etc., etc.

I might be able to change your mind based on my life, but if you're convinced, that is that.

[efhmc]

18. I so, so disagree and personally know many that do wish they had

never been born because of the pain and abuse they suffered at the hands of others over whom they, as helpless children, had no control. What would be the best of both worlds is that they could be born and those purists that think all should be born would take them into their homes and would bring them up in a loving, warm, safe environment. How many children have you and others who espose this thought that all should be born done this for?

[babylonsister]

19. Let me share something with you, woman.

My first thought is you've had a miserable life. My second thought is that there are a lot of people in the US who would love to adopt if money/age/sexuality/race/space in homes didn't equate to an "issue".

[efhmc]

20. No, wrong again. I was the third of a family of five. My Mom wanted

more children after having 2, a boy and a girl. Her doctor asked why since you have one of each you want more children. But she WANTED more children and got her minor physical problem fixed and so had me and 2 more children. I was married to one person and was pg 2 times with wanted babies and have now have two wanted daughters and my daughters has 2 wanted sons. Having babies that are wanted makes for a very different view of pregnancy and birth.

[babylonsister]

21. efhmc, I think we are on the same page here.

I initially responded to 'DemBones', not your own self. But you got me fired up. And I do happen to agree with you. Yes, I admit, young, dumb, horny and lied to, I had an abortion years ago. I CAN relate, and do agree.

[REP]

24. Who Supports This?

Postadoptive reactions of the relinquishing mother: a review.

Askren HA, Bloom KC.

Deer Valley OB/GYN, Mesa, AZ, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To review the literature addressing the process of relinquishment
as it relates to the birth mother. DATA SOURCES: Computerized searches in
CINAHL; Article 1 st, PsycFIRST, and SocioAbs databases, using the keywords
adoption and relinquishment; and ancestral bibliographies. STUDY SELECTION:
Articles from indexed journals in the English language relevant to the
keywords were evaluated. No studies were located before 1978. Studies that
sampled only an adolescent population were excluded. Twelve studies met the
inclusion criteria and were included in the analysis. DATA EXTRACTION: Data
were extracted and information was organized under the following headings:
grief reaction, long-term effects, efforts to resolve, and influences on the
relinquishment experience. DATA SYNTHESIS: A grief reaction unique to the
relinquishing mother was identified. Although this reaction consists of
features characteristic of the normal grief reaction, these features persist
and often lead to chronic, unresolved grief. CONCLUSIONS: The relinquishing
mother is at risk for long-term physical, psychologic, and social
repercussions. Although interventions have been proposed, little is known
about their effectiveness in preventing or alleviating these repercussions.
Med J Aust 1986 Feb 3;144(3):117-9

Adoption should be safe, legal and rare.

[SoCalDem]

22. Ever since the "invention" of the sharp stick, there have been abortions

and there will always be abortions. The bottom line is this..

If YOU thinks it's immoral, murder, against your faith...DON'T HAVE ONE..

BUT..and it's a BIG BUT..


NOT EVERYONE BELIEVES THE SAME THINGS YOU DO..AND IT'S NOT YOUR PLACE TO TELL OTHERS HOW TO APPROACH THIS MOST PERSONAL OF ISSUES..


If having an abortion is sending a woman to hell-in-a-handbasket...that's HER business and her God's business...not MINE or YOurs or the lady across the street, or the perfect stranger yelling stuff at her and waving signs in her face..


Maybe I think alcohol is dangerous and no one should drink... Oh wait.. we already tried that one...not very successfully..

[fortyfeetunder]

23. I second that SoCal Dem

Amazing this country spends its energy minding other peoples' business....

[REP]

25. Amen!

I can get behind that kind of compromise!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. Personally, I would not have had an abortion if I had gotten pregnant, but

I'm just old enough to remember the days before Roe v. Wade, the days of the "shotgun wedding"--or the self-induced or back alley abortion or the baby who was given away and for all practical purposes as if dead to the birth mother-- for the poor and middle class and weekend trips to first London, then New York for the wealthy.

Between the availability of legal abortion and the availability of open adoption (I knew some couples in Portland who had adopted children this way), it's a much better time to be unmarried and pregnant (not that there's ever really a good time) than it was in the supposedly swinging 1960s.