Republican logic- torture is justified

[Willy Lee]

I have a republican coworker. It really is a shame- we get along in every way except politics, so we agree not to discuss them. Of course, occasionally it is inevitable.

Now this coworker is also in the National Guard, very pro-military. He made a comment yesterday about the "supposed torture". When I said, no, it really is torture, he says "That is what they get. Just look at what they do to our soldiers every day."

I have heard this over and over again from pro-war repubs. "Any torture/deaths is their own fault for attacking us."

How can we ever escape from this circular logic? We won't stop killing them until they stop killing us. They won't stop killing us because we keep killing them. Will it ever end?

[qazplm]

1. being in iraq myself right now

the argument i make is that its wrong because we are supposed to be upholding a higher standard...therefore, even if true, how does simply saying, yeah but they do it too, show a mature responsible outlook?

[Willy Lee]

2. I agree.

Stay safe, OK?

[HEAVYHEART]

6. Iraq

What are you doing in Iraq? Are you in the military? Just wondering. Take care of you.

[zbdent]

17. "They did it first" has about as much logic as the old Family Circus

book title "He hit me back first!"

With the new FOIA documents coming out that a "presidential directive" was sent out endorsing torture, the US is losing the "they did it first!" PR battle.

Remember the uproar about the contractors' bodies on the bridge? The beheadings? Well, the dates keep being pushed back further and further on the reporting of torture and abuses by our "above that" soldiers.

[Union Thug]

3. "their fault for attacking us..." ???

WTF? Um, whose country is whose army occupying at the moment?

[rkc3]

10. It's true, Iraq was directly involved in 9/11 -- remind your co-worker

he's a fucking idiot.

Ask him, if he gets shipped off to Iraq, if he'd feel different about torture if it were his balls tied to the electrodes. Then remind him again that he's a fucking idiot.

Sorry for the language, but I'm tired of these torture apologists. We went into this country on high moral standing, given a mandate from on high to liberate these people - and this is how we treat them. The hypocrisy associated with this is mind-numbing.

[LondonReign2]

19. What?? Didn't you know..

that the hundreds of people we've tortured were all, each and every one of them, personally involved in 9/11?

Reugs are the party of moral values...like the value of hating everyone not like them, condoning torture, and blowing up "enemies" in the name of god...that's their moral values.

[The Stranger]

4. Confront such people directly and point out that they are dangerous

for harboring such unDemocratic positions and doing damage to the U.S. in such a way. If they are in office or hold any authority whatsoever, do everything in your power to have them removed.

[seemunkee]

5. How do we expect our soldiers to be treated

when we torture our captive enemies?
In this war and in any future war we will be remembered for Abu Ghraib.

[BlueEyedSon]

9. BINGO!

[unpossibles]

7. I recently had this same argument about Gonzales

and the response was "the Geneva convention only counts against soldiers of a sovereign nation and in uniform, not against terrorists." I tried to explain why it is a bad idea to excuse ourselves from the Geneva Convention, and that technically we invaded a sovereign nation, etc. but to no avail.

I suppose people do not like to consider that we are not always the good guys...

[rkc3]

13. I like to point out the repubs are the party of moral values

and then remind my repub co-workers their president thinks it's great to have an AG who believes torture is acceptable. Moral values my ass.

[brainshrub]

8. Why does your colleague hate America?

I know that RWers hate Democracy, but now they are pro-torture?

I should change my sigline to read: "It's not fascism when we do it."

[FuckYouBush_com]

11. Pure ignorance.

I feel sick that supposedly half the country thinks this way. The same people that cannot come up with an answer as to why we are there in the first place.

If you come into my neighborhood and try to kill me for no reason, I think I would try to defend myself.

Go oil!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. faulty logic

the Iraqis weren't the 911 terrorists. A majority, if not all, torture victims were not directly responsible for atrocities done to our troops. Anyway, torture is never morally justified-ask your freeper coworker to give you a direct quote from Jesus that says otherwise. He won't be able to find it, even in the Falwell version of the Bible.

[rkc3]

14. Wait until the post 9/11 version of the Falwell Bible comes out.

Jesus will be singing a whole new set of tunes.

[Willy Lee]

15. Or the Departemnt of Defense Bible.

Playing up war and conflict (read about it yesterday).

Sad. Sad. Sad.

[flobee1kenobi]

16. Nobody gets this!

TORTURE DOES NOT WORK!!!!!
If I torture someone long enough, they will admit to being from the moon! You will get the type of info that got us into this war to begin with!

The moment we began the torture of prisoners, we became no better than the Taliban. We sank to their level. We became the monsters that we despised before all of this happened. All republican freepers can say is but...but...but...and make excuses. America has become terrorists. America has become those horrible people that kill indiscriminately, and it just makes me want to vomit

edit: The worst part is that the majority of americans are perfectly ok with this!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. You know, the terrorists said they were out to destroy our country

seeing what America is becoming, I'm beginning to think they have succeeded.

[Caoimhe]

20. I don't know

An elderly friend of mine was a pilot of a B-17 during WW2. He was shot down over Germany in 1943 and managed to parachute right into waiting Germans. He was taken to a Luft camp along with his another crew member who also survived. During his year and a half in the camp he told me he was never abused. One prisoner was shot when an air raid siren went off and he didn't get to his bunk fast enough, that was the only death in the camp. The food was scarce and wormy, but the Red Cross came in as often as possible, bringing books, playing cards, puzzles, food, medicine, etc. He considers them his guardian angels. While not all experiences were like his, many were. His camp was eventually liberated by a bunch of drunken Russians with wagons of vegetables and a few dozen cattle to eat.

Now we are looking at American "torture chambers" where the Red Cross/Crescent is not allowed in. My friend is disgusted and ashamed of this administration and how they have routed the Geneva Conventions and justified torture as a tool.

It saddens me that after his service to this nation, his last years are filled with depression and disgust at his own country's leaders.