Why do people turn to fundamentalism?

[RUDUing2]

Don't give a knee jerk answer of: because they are stupid or because they are full of fear..there is more to it then that..

This article gives some good info on why they do..but what are some other reasons?

http://www.euronet.nl/users/e_wesker/fundam.html

................Some societies seem to be more vulnerable to fundamentalism than others. Fundamentalism provides two crucial things to societies. On the one hand, fundamentalism provides a moral worldview than can be adopted in toto and thus is particularly appealing to societies in flux. Those who either see morality disappearing from their society, or who are unsure how to anchor their morality, may turn to fundamentalism as a new source of moral surety. In the United States, for example, Christian fundamentalism was given a great boost by the moral laxity of the 1960s, as many felt that society had lost its moral course and turned to fundamentalism to restore morality to society. Fundamentalists played a crucial role in the election of Reagan to the governorship of California in 1966 and the conservative groundswell in American politics that continued for roughly 30 years. Throughout this period, fundamentalist Christianity helped shape the agenda of the Republican Party, on issues as diverse as Communism, abortion, and school vouchers.

On the other hand, fundamentalism is also appealing to youth, particularly youth who feel that they have no political voice. While ordinary society tells adolescents to moderate their desires in order to function in society, fundamentalism glorifies adolescent desires, like anger, depression, need for revenge, and rejection of one’s parent’s society. While these emotions are not productive in normal society, they play a major role in helping fundamentalists to achieve their eschaton. Fundamentalism gives broader context to adolescent hubris that justifies and reinforces these adolescent desires. Moreover, fundamentalism fulfils basic adolescent desires for a sense of belonging and acceptance. Once new converts accept the fundamentalist groups’ worldview, they will be automatically accepted into the fundamentalist society..............

[Jesus H. Christ]

1. No, I don't think there is anything more than stupidity or fear.

"Moreover, fundamentalism fulfils basic adolescent desires for a sense of belonging and acceptance."

Yes, I remember when I was an adolescent all I wanted to do was be abstinent and do exactly what my parents told me to do.

[RUDUing2]

2. not what your parents told you but didn't you want to be accepted by

*the* crowd..whatever crowd it was?...most teenagers do want total acceptance...

[Jesus H. Christ]

3. Here's another little gem.

"In the United States, for example, Christian fundamentalism was given a great boost by the moral laxity of the 1960s, as many felt that society had lost its moral course and turned to fundamentalism to restore morality to society."

*cough* civil rights *cough*

[RUDUing2]

8. think they are meaning "free love", the belief that illegitmacy was not

something shameful, etc...

[Jesus H. Christ]

12. No, I think it was black people.

Fundamentalists back in the 60's were mostly just scared of black people getting rights.

[Warpy]

9. When you were an adolescent

you wanted to blend into whatever clique you ended up in and do what they told you to do. It's the same with fundies, really.

I think another element might be that we're all confronted with a bewildering array of choices, most of them false, like the ten different types of detergent all produced by the same company in the supermarket aisle.

Fundamentalism relieves you of making many of these choices, and thereby of making any of the mistakes associated with them.

It's fear based, belonging based, and simplifies things for a certain type of individual.

[POAS]

4. It may just boil down to

not needing to make choices.

Choices require an individual to take responsibility. By limiting the choices available and having someone else proscribe the limitations the individual is freed from the burden of making choices, and the guilt that comes when wrong choices are made.

[ChristaElaine]

23. not needing to make choices

I think this is definitely true to some extent. Current US politics present a breathtaking array of options, points of view, and affiliations that are magnified and distorted by yet another breathtaking array of political propaganda, sensational news coverage, and partisan punditry. It can seem impossible to get a straight answer about anything. I live in Austin, Texas, and the web page for my county's branch of the Democratic Party doesn't even post the party's basic platform.

My parents, who are good people if uninformed about politics, voted for Bush in the last election. Their answer to my question of "Why on earth?" was that Kerry supported partial-birth abortion.

The advantage of religion is that it comes with a handbook and its own army of explainers-on-the-spot. Don't feel you have a grasp on a moral issue? You can read your Bible, or go ask your local minister. Don't feel you have a grasp on the war in Iraq? Take a number.

It is much easier to point to an issue that you feel you can understand and have a moral stance on than to attempt to wade through the dizzying tide of information surrounding events and practical politics. Not to mention that church is more fun--and a hell of a lot less depressing--than trying to find solid ground on war, political unrest, and a world that may or may not be going to Hell in a handbasket.

[newyawker99]

40. Hi ChristaElaine!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[coloradodem2005]

5. Pretty much feels like that is the case.

I don't think that the religions themselves are bad. It is the fundamentalist/evangelical factions of them that are bad.

[MsAnthropy]

6. Because it's safer in troubled times to have absolutes

Everything is spelled out for them, they don't have to think.

[Dora]

7. Ignorance and insecurity

Fundamentalism provides stability for those who cannot accept the following: reality is different for everyone; there is no one truth; perspective matters.

I know people who, despite their seeming intelligence and critical thinking abilities, still embrace fundamentalism because it provides the simplicity they crave.

Hell, if it's simplicity they want, they should get rid of the tv and stop buying things.

[Career Prole]

10. Because in one of their greatest hyocrisies the party of

"personal responsibility" likes to blame all the world's woes on "God's will".
It's so much tidier than accepting that their policies are all wrong.

[4_TN_TITANS]

11. It provides a comfort zone...

A building full of like minded brothers and sisters, all playing by the same set of rules. Fundamentalism gives people a "back to the basics" sense of warm, fuzzy familiarities.

It's shallow to dismiss those people as stupid or ignorant. Fundamentalism shields people from one of the scariest aspects of life - change, social change in particular. And, it provides firm ground to stand on, stone tablets in hand, and condemn those who don't play by "the rules". It draws lines in the sand, and turns the realistically grey world into clear black and white.

Face it - Fundamentalism fills the needs of many people who otherwise would be "lost". Us liberals are just wired differently and one can talk til their blue in the face to fundamentalists but it will never sink in.

[RUDUing2]

14. good post. thanks.

[hobbit709]

13. Because thinking hurts

If you believe, everything is clear. If you think, there are questions.
Most people can't think, won't think even when their lives depend on it.

[JHBowden]

15. Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.

--Bertrand Russell

[El Supremo]

16. I agree with all these posts and...

I would add that many of the Fundies that I know had a crisis in life (divorce, alcoholism, jail) and they were lured in by the faith healers to solve their problems.

[ChristaElaine]

24. "they were lured in by the faith healers to solve their problems"

I think this is an oversimplification and an unnecessary vilification of one of the better aspects of religion and Christianity in particular. Christianity in general--and I'm not talking about those who like to preach hellfire--is about acceptance, forgiveness, and second chances. That's why the Gospel is called the "good news." This is a good message for those who need a second chance in life, like those who have suffered through divorce, unemployment, or addiction.

One of the things people are encouraged to do, though, in the process of letting go of these problems, is to "give them up to God." There's a doctrine of acceptance (faith) in Christianity today that encourages a certain lack of agency. It isn't you fixing your problems; it's God working through you. I find this problematic in general. But it relates to fundamentalism in this way: there is a general trend in religion to let faith replace free thinking. It is not only encouraged but strongly advocated; there is a lot of pressure to "let go and trust God." It can be easier for those who have had problems like those mentioned above, and who have been helped to solve them through the real benefits of Christianity (community, acceptance, love, belief in God's grace) to simply let go, and allow others to do their thinking for them.

[El Supremo]

26. Welcome to DU!

You are probably right, but so many people who seek help at a church would do better by visiting a shrink. I go to church to contemplate the kingdom of heaven. I try to solve earthly problems with mostly my own will.

[Touchdown]

17. I find the addiction prone are drawn to it.

Thinking about this for awhile, since I was subjected to both Assembly of God and Four Square churches as a teen. What I saw in the congregations were "former sex addicts", "Former alcoholics", "former prostitutes", "former drug addicts", and the ever so popular and self-deluding "Former Homosexuals". All claim that they were trapped in their former "lifestyles" (a term I hate with a passion) until Jesus came into their lives or whatever personal sob story they love to say "praise Jesus" after. :eyes:

All they really did was replace one addiction with another, or in the case of the gays, just plain denial of who they are. It was all so phony and delusional at the same time, all hypnotized by the slow growing cadence of the mob "celebration of charisma" into a firey primal scream of total submission to the preacher's will. Rolling down the aisles? Speaking in tongues? Spare me the theatrics. It's hypnotism at it's most elementary.

[RUDUing2]

19. I agree about replacing one addiction with another...

[LostinVA]

20. You both beat me to it...

I have a cousin who was raised Catholic. He was just "normal" religious: ie believed Jesus was Christ, went to Mass, lead a decent life. Then, he became n alcoholic and substance abuser. He FINALLY cleaned himself up due to AA/NA and his own determination. HOWEVER, a coworker took him to this whacked Fundy mega-church,a nd that was it.... he became addicted to Jesus instead of other stuff. He is now as drugged on this, and spends as much money, and ignores his family, as much as when he was Hoovering down coke...

Alec Baldwin also said this recently about his brother Stephen... so, it's pretty common, I think.

[noonwitch]

18. It's not stupidity, it's fear of complexity

Fundamentalism offers easy answers and clear behavioral mandates. Don't do this, don't wear that, don't listen to this music, etc. This has appeal to people who are frightened by some of the scarier parts of any culture, like violent movies and video games, crude music, and people walking around with very little clothing on except for the ton of metal they have hanging from holes in their faces.

As far as christian fundamentalists go, I think that for a lot of them (the freeper kind), they need to demonize the people they consider enemies, hence terms like "baby killers", "demonrats", and the numerous names they have for Hillary Clinton. They have a psychological need to feel morally superior, and to see their enemies punished eternally. Luckily for them, they have the "Holy Bible" to support their needs and by accepting as the complete and perfect word of God, they can get caught up in the numerous behavioral prohibitions listed in the Old Testament and in Paul's epistles (the words of Paul are not the words of God, imo) and forget about the actual message of Jesus about forgiveness, prayer, spirituality and treating people right whether they are christians or not.

[kohodog]

45. I would agree, but say it is a want for a security.

The worldview of simplicity and "rightness" indeed makes life more simple and does offer simple answers that people can cling to. Jesus certainly did not offer saftey and security when he told the rich to give up their posessions.

Make no mistake, the religious leaders of today would crucify him again. Can you imagine him unplugging the computers on Wall Street? He'd upset the money tables today too.

[madrchsod]

21. they are afraid of a changing world

that they do not understand. it`s inherent in all societies thru out history.and as time moves slowly on, they will be left behind while others will move on. we are being "led" by a ruler that basis his power on manipulating this fear of the unknown. time will always move forward and society will move with it.
simply put-the good old days were not very good no matter what color of glasses you may use...

[SOteric]

22. A number of reasons I've long felt likely to contribute,

Socio-cultural differences would be the first. In some regions, some cultures, some societies, families and neighbours are more interdependent than others. In the most interdependent cultures, fundamentalism becomes a connection, a bond within the familial network. It's less easy and tolerable to have views that differ from your family's views, your friend's views and your neighbour's views. So rather than differ, the objective becomes rigorous adherence to the fundaments that bond.

Also there is a deep longing to 'belong' in much of modern society. It's evident in the television and movies we watch, evident in the popular literature, we all want to be part of a group, one of the cool kids, one of the 'in' crowd. Fundamentalism provides an easy access to a kind of 'in' crowd. You only need to follow the rules, the more rigidly and dogmatically you pursue them the more 'in' and virtuous you become. To this 'in' crowd it doesn't matter if you dress like a dork, can't understand computer buzzwords to save your life, and barely have the social clout to get a date with a homely Elbonian desperate for a green card. They'll take you. And as a bonus, you can even judge others as less virtuous than you.

And let's not forget good old-fashioned lethargy. In many ways it's the flipside of the apathy coin so common in progressive/liberal circles and amoung the young. The root from which so many of these same branches spring is that a great many people on every side of the spectrum haven't learnt, nor can they much be bothered to think for themselves.

[Dr_Greenthumb]

42. Exceedingly well said!

[serryjw]

46. For all your reasons and ones stated above......

we will NEVER convert them, and they will never understand us. We talk logic and they don't. The map of Pre-Civil WAR says it all. We are still there 150 years later and we will be there in another 150 years IF we don't move the blue states to Canada. We will never agree and the division will get worse as it did 150 years ago.....will it take another civil war?

[Pepperbelly]

25. This answer will not be popular but it is true nonetheless.

One of the biggest factors is what I call the power of surrender. Look at the lexicon of their movement, the base messages to the breathern, the morphemes of the group (loosely speaking, of course.)

Let God take your burden.

Submit to God's will.

Let Jesus save you.

Accept God.

Accept.

This is a powerful thing, one that has been a big part of the long history of spiritual movements among humans. Perhaps the one element that is absolutely necessary for whatever value one gleans from their religions, philosophy, disciplines, or whatever. Even the Buddhists and their ultimate enlightment depend upon surrender and acceptence of what is.

The fundamentalists in revealed religions ultiumately abuse the acceptence and of course, since they are fundamentalists, by definition they have some particular scripture to which they adhere. Regardless of that, the essential peak experience that people of many different notions sometimes have, is a very powerful thing, something that people want to experience again and again.

And this gets them there.

I say good for them.

However, all that being said, the real misfortune of this fact is that rather than allowing everyone to get to the same place in whatever fashion they wish or not at all if they so choose, they feel a need to go AGAINST scripture and insert their fucking mugs into EVERY situation. The reason is not because they are fundamentalists. It is because they are Puritans who absolutely cannot under any circumstances be happy when they suspect that someone, anyone MIGHT be having a good time somewhere. Why are they like that? I am into surrender and acceptence of what is and have to call it exactly as I see it. It is because they are assholes.

It's not enough that they found something that floats their boat. They want exactly the same thing to float EVERYONE'S boat.

Which is, of course, why they are assholes.

:evilgrin:

[ChristaElaine]

27. "Why are they like that?"

Most of them are like that--"They want exactly the same thing to float EVERYONE'S boat"--because they honestly believe that their way is the best way to live, and that their way promotes peace and happiness in life. They really do. Some of them are assholes, sure. But most of them have good intentions.

[Pepperbelly]

30. I disagree ...

the reason being that anytime an adult human being BELIEVES that the public at large should submit to their particular religious practices regardless of their their own convictions, that attempt is, by definition, what an asshole would do. An asshole is someone who does what assholes do. They do what assholes do. Ergo ...

[ChristaElaine]

32. Think of it this way:

To them, being Christian and following Christian codes equals having a better life and being happier than those who are not.

To most people, not being addicted to heroin equals having a better life and being happier than those who are so addicted.

We all project our values to some extent. It doesn't make someone an asshole to want people to have good lives.

[Pepperbelly]

33. but ...

would you say them same for the heroin addicts if they insisted that everyone share in their joy?

[ChristaElaine]

34. You bet.

If something is done from altruism, it's still altruism, no matter how misguided.

[Pepperbelly]

36. I guess that philosophically, I know them by their works, not their faith.

Regardless of WHY they do as they do, it is the attempt to bend everyone to their will that, for the life of me, seems like what an asshole would do, even if he was a well-meaning asshole.

[aneerkoinos]

56. Playing with words

Altruism, as I understand it, means selflessness or self-abnegation. As long as one's self is attached or addicted to something, as long as the healer has not healed oneself, it's not altruism but selfish ignorance. Which of course also has the potential of doing "good".

[ChristaElaine]

58. playing with words indeed

altruism: Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness.
www.dictionary.com

Certainly ignorance is involved, but selfishness does not necessarily enter into it. Look, if I consider the homeless and think they're worse off than I am, and therefore hope that their condition will change, I may be wrong but I'm not motivated by selfishness. I know this isn't an exact parallel, but I think the point is clear: if you're going to judge you MUST account for motivations.

Anyone could come up with a hundred different ways to vilify Christians here, and especially fundamentalists, but that isn't the point. The point is to try to understand them. Positive growth and change come from that, not from acting like they're inherently bad people. After all, isn't that kind of willful misunderstanding the same thing you'd like them to quit doing?

[RUDUing2]

60. exactly...if it isn't okay when *they* do it, then it isn't okay when *we*

do it.

[aneerkoinos]

62. Sorry if you misunderstood

"Selfish" was the wrong choise of word, when what I meant was attached-to-the-idea-of-self, as opposite of selflessness.

I don't think anyone, certainly not Christians, are inherently bad people (or else), because I don't think anything is inherently, but only in relation to other things. "Good" and "bad" exist in relation to each other, not much else. I thought the point of this thread was to question and gain better understanding of Christianity.

My understanding of Christianity is that what was originally taught in Christ's name was profound and usefull, and the wisdom can be still found among the scriptures and is found, but it's been also distorted and suppressed by all kinds of questionable motives since the day Bible was put together and even earlier.

I'm not sure what you refer to, but seeing some fundamental misguiding errors in the way teaching of Christ's message is being done in the doctrines of various schismatic churches is certainly not "willfull misunderstanding", it's called disagreement, open to counterarguments.

[Sentath]

37. missed one

The weird dichotomy of "without g*d you are / I am nothing" and "j*s*s loves you so much that if you were the only person on earth he still would have died for your sins."

This one still hurts my head.

[aneerkoinos]

57. No wonder

Because to be more truthfull/helpfull it should read "in god you are/I am no-thing".

[aneerkoinos]

55. Good post

Surrendering, letting go, is what true religion is really about, that's also the essence of faith.

Point is not to be too stupid or too smart about it.

Impatience is the worst enemy, many are so impatient and insecure and unhappy that they are willing to surrender to the first "Satan" of temptation that walks by, before gaining the basic understanding that the point of surrendering is not to surrender to something or somebody, including personal "God" or some book describing "God", but just simply let go. Which is not easy, but of course possible even to Christians.

When something as powerfull as surrendering is misplaced, or rather placed at all, it tends to become a force that is potentially very hostile to all that other being that one didn't surrender to.

[4_TN_TITANS]

28. One of the better threads today...

actually making us think and try to understand what we are up against. Now that's a step in the right direction!

[RUDUing2]

50. thank you...I was raised SB and have lots of relatives and friends who are

fundies...they are not evil or stupid people...there is something else there...I am just trying to figure out what it is that makes them believe what they do....

[LanternWaste]

29. In my case...

In my case, it was simply some observation of the world and it's peoples, some diligent research into contemporary Christian apologists and writers (which in turn, led me to the classics) and, finally (and most importantly), quietly examining my conscious (as Shakespeare would say, "I and my bosom must debate awhile"). The rest has simply been a personal struggle (the whole,"two steps forward, one step back" thing).

That's using Fundamentalism in the true sense of word (holding five truths as absolutes)rather than the trendy and hip label more commonly used.

Hope I didn't skew your results... :hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. Karen Armstrong's theory is that it appeals to people who have

been hurt by the modern world and who want something absolute to cling to and who dream of a bygone world (that never really existed) where their kind of people ran things.

[Pepperbelly]

35. I don't know about that ...

I am not sure that a desire for nostalgia would be enough to provoke some of the irrational and downright silly fights that some of them pick in their efforts to bend EVERYONE to their will. There has to be a bigger personal payoff for these guys, something that they get besides a threadbare feeling of well-being from a comfortable set of notions.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. An example of "nostalgia for what never was" is

the school prayer controversy. In reality, most parts of the country NEVER had school prayer, but the fundamentalists act as if a great nationwide tradition was destroyed in 1962. Another symptom is bemoaning the current divorce rate, not acknowledging that a lot of people, especially women, once stayed in absolutely horrific marriages due to a combination of social pressure and economic powerlessness--it wasn't because "morals were better."

[mediaman007]

38. Jesse Ventura said that "religion was for people with weak minds."

Perhaps he was thinking of the Fundies.

I'm a believer, but very skeptical of many claims. But I do believe in a higher being. Jesus seems an OK way to believe. Except that my Jesus is way more fun and tolerant that the Right's Jesus.

[RUDUing2]

51. that is because IMO liberals worship Jesus of Nazareth...

fundamentalist worship Christ of Paul...

check out my blog today on this..

http://www.ladyliberal.blogspot.com/

[ComerPerro]

41. Same reason they join cults

In a sense, its the same thing. People who become born again are usually people who feel their lives are on the wrong track or who have really made some mistakes. So you get these televangelists like Pat Robertson and TBN, and they tell these people that its ok. They tell them that if you are not happy with your life right now, then you should turn to Jesus and it will make your life whole again. These people are missing something inside, and the fundies tell them that embracing Jesus will make it all better.

Also, the notion that all of your sins, no matter how vulgar or numerous, will be forgiven if you accept Christ is quite appealing.

Of course, I am not attacking religion here. I personally believe that spirituality can help people find a higher conciousness and can really turn people's life around. Sometimes, its important to find something that can give your life meaning and value.

But it is truly sad how these greedy assholes like Robertson and Hinn and Falwell expolit people at their most vulnerable point and then immediately start pumping them for cash.

Fundimentalist Christianity is nothing more than a business and a political arm of the right wing. It shamelessly exploits people and uses things like judgement and the threat of eternal damnation as leverage to con the weak.

If you don't believe me, turn the TV to TBN or the 700 club and watch for half an hour. I gurantee you will see at least two pleas to "accept Jesus Christ as your savior" and then to follow up by "signing up for monthly donations". You will probably also see testimonials where people are down to their last dollar, and rather than pay their bills they pledge a thousand dollars to Pat Robertson, so now they are millionares.

Religion is fine, but fundimentalism should start being labled as what it is: a cult, riddled with exploitation and indoctrination.

[neebob]

43. Um, because they're brainwashed?

Or is that a knee-jerk answer? I don't think so.

[Sirveri]

44. Because it provides hope in desperate times.

I used to think that things that provided hope were pretty much all good. But maybe I was wrong.

[RetroLounge]

47. For the same reason people post questions

and then tell me how I can answer.

Control, either over others, or by others.

It's a whole Religious B and D thang.

RL

[Undercover Owl]

49. B and D.....bondage and domination? n/t

[PurityOfEssence]

61. Funny how that works, huh?

The hierarchical nature of Christianity can't be overemphasized. That's why many of us use terms like "arrested development" or "adolescence": one is scampering hither and yon trying to get the big daddy to finally approve. All of the disappointments and feelings of insignificance can be fixed if only he loves me.

The big cosmic pat on the head and sharing of the unearthly serenity palace is the joyous hope of those who scorn much of earthly existence. The dark side of all this is cleverly used by many of its practitioners, and the Sadistic power drunkenness is painfully evident among the more strident sects.

Where evangelism fits in is that if you can get more scalps for the Sky Chief, he will finally accept you. Much of the proselytizing isn't so much wanting to share one's joy with others as it is to accumulate points toward that great S&H Green Stamps paradise of the "better". There are very dark and selfish motivations at the heart of Christianity, and it shows. Yes, much good is done, and yes, it provides much succor, but there's more suckitude than succor as far as I can see.

Use an ad absurdum, reductionist argument: what's the primary activity proscribed to a Christian? It's saving one's own ass. That ain't noble, and that's the root of lots of the trouble.

Where the B & D comes in is that those who've elected to make themselves powerless to a greater force often crave power over others to compensate.

[RetroLounge]

63. Exactly. Thanks for expanding on that.

RL

[davekriss]

48. Imbalance

Just as Chomsky says there is a "language organ" in the brain, I think there is also a "spiritual organ" -- i.e., we are perhaps preprogrammed by countless generations of natural selection to pursue spiritual "truth", "salvation", "peace", and "meaning". To deny that pursuit with zeal or conscientious devotion is equally an expression of that preprogrammed given in our natures, albeit in disguised form.

Joseph Campbell describes 4 major cultural functions for religion (IIRC): (i) to engender sustaining and grounding "mystical" experience in a few (the founding roots of religions), (ii) to provide order and meaning that allows a political/economic system to florish, (iii) to establish and justify a ruling priestly class that benefits a few and maintains the general order, (iv) to function as a screening myth that keeps system-contrarian truths from the minds of the non-privileged classes. There is nothing wrong with item one; it all goes downhill with the latter three. That preprogrammed pursuit of the spiritual gets hijacked again and again for sociopolitical purposes that maintain, sustain, and benefit selfish hierarchy -- and at complete variance (usually) from the "mystical" experiences that served to found the religious order in the first place -- steers us into discussions of our natures that spill far beyond just the "religious" in us.

Having said that, my wife (Kriss) is a good Christian. I can say unequivocally that her church (a small charismatic church) is filled with men and women of good spirit who turn to Sundays for nourishment, comfort, and community. The values and ideals upheld are positive and healing. During the rest of the week many do much community work to alleviate the suffering of others. In and of itself there is nothing negative with this at all; on the contrary, this is a beautiful thing.

If I can wax metaphorically here I think there are levels to consciousness, spheres turning slowly within spheres. Up above are the spheres of transpersonal experience (the mystical, spiritual, revelatory). Down below are the spheres of the wounded child, the detritus of our tragic personal histories. In between are the spheres of the everyday self that balances the checkbook and clocks in at work. A retreat into any one at the cost of the others is disorder, disease.

The transpersonal in flight from the weight of the everyday or acknowledgement of our woundings can lead to imbalance and fanaticism; a retreat below can lead to depression, emotional chaos, continuance and increase of pain. And a retreat into the everyday in denial of the above/below can lead to ennui, emptiness, and meaninglessness. What's called for, and the words of the many spiritual leaders across time have called for this, is balance and integration of all spheres.

To the extent that religion orders and integrates it can be tolerated (by me). I understand that many of us are strong enough to stand alone, separate from the ordering community of religions (Tillich's the courage to stand apart vs. the courage to participate, two poles of the courage to be in a world where God can seem very absent -- the many of us fall at various points along this valid continuum). But I am also fully aware how the sensitive spheres can be hijacked for banal (even evil) purposes. And I am aware how the screening myths of religions can distract from and postpone the fight for corrective social justice and equality. On this contradiction I don't pretend to have answers, but unlike some I neither embrace naively nor reject wholly the fundamental drives that lead men and women to bond together in intended good will under the banners of various religions.

But, hey, that's just me <---- lost in Samsarra, swimming in our Ocean of Tears...

[The Stranger]

52. Fascinating post. Is there more? Where do I buy the book?

[aneerkoinos]

59. Another good post, thnx

This led me to think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, people can dedicate to the "transpersonal search" if other needs are fulfilled, if there is balance with other needs.

Perhaps the progressive movement needs to transform into spiritual awakening of sorts, making the goal of social progress such that all beings would be free to function also on the spiritual level of search of meaning of whole, having their material needs and need of belonging, social meaning satisfied?

[bo44]

53. Sick and tired dope fiends and career prison inmates

The chaplain at the juvenile facility of my former employ turned to Jesus after spending almost a year in the SHU at Pelican Bay. One of the only things he was allowed to have was a bible. He told that before he picked up the bible, he was in his early forties, he couldn't help but reflect what a bloody mess his life was, how he hurt so many people, and how there was no way he could get turn back and fix it. He said spending 23 hours a day locked in cage left him the choice to either find God and a way out, or die a useless, violent thug's death. Judging him after the fact, he was a good man. No in your face Jaysus Saves preaching and shit like that, just a matter of fact helping personality in the package of an old suave vato. Sadly, as I have been told, he is now withering away physically due to his drug and alcohol use. If I know Jack he is not feeling sorry for himself. He did it to himself and now he must pay. Say what you will about white bread people who turn fundie that have never lived life outside the farm, suburb or trailer park, people like Jack who have been major fuck ups in their lives to the extreme need a sane way out. Jesus is one way to do it.

[Az]

54. Fundamental systems work in specific environments

A diverse society is not one of them. This is the reason fundamentalists are such a threat to the US.

In the past when we had homogenous cultures and societies fundamental belief systems were the norm. But as we advanced societies mingled. As diversity increased the stress of these interactions forced a drastic change in the culture of the west. Tolerance had to supplant certainty and comformity. This new found respect for other cultures and beliefs though brought with it a tremendous benefit and the age of enlightenment experiences one of the most explosive periods of discovery.

However over time the old voices still maintained in the religious institutions found their footing once again. Thus we see throughout history the recurrent surge of religious mania. As they increase their hold and the forces of tolerance and diversity wane the threat that they will overturn the humanist revolution increases.

Eventually they will storm the barricades as it were and we will once again experience the burning of the metaphorical Library of Alexandria. They are already besieging the halls of science. They will not be satisfied with parrity. They will accept nothing less that total dominance.

[ThoughtCriminal]

64. Projection too

This may not be a major component, but something I noticed among the most vocal "Moralists" - they have a personal problem with avoiding temptation. Adultery, gambling, drugs, divorce, secret abortions, "trophy" wives, embezzlement. The Christian right is loaded with "Elmer Gantrys".

I think that they think since they can't resist, the rest of us are leading secret lives of depravity too.

[LostInAnomie]

65. An absolute fear of normlessness...

... or "anomie" as Durkheim put it. That is why when hard times or times of rapid change happen there are always moves towards fundamentalism. When the dominant social controls and norms of a society break down weaker people who cannot handle of accept the change look for something to ease the fear. Fundamentalism does this.

Religion provides a easy to follow set of guidelines, authorities to guide you, and an accepting environment with members to provide social control. Most of all it provides those who feel out of place with the social environment of the outside world membership to a organization where they know their place.

To provide a guess why there has been a revival of fundamentalism I would point to the large scale changes in society within the last 50 years (civil rights, no fault divorce, women's equality, acceptance of gays, etc.). Before the 50's all of these people knew their place, people knew what roles were expected of them and social stratification was fairly rigid. This is partially why conservatives look back so fondly at the 50's and glaze over all the injustices. With the rapid changes in roles the weak minded conservative's status and role was thrown into flux, and they needed something to provide them with structure. This is where religion filled the gap.

[China_cat]

66. You'll find some of the best explanations

in the book "The Mind of the Bible Believer" by Edmund Cohen.

Especially the chapter on logocide.

[Ladyhawk]

67. Good book...

Leaving the Fold by Dr. Marlene Winell.

I used to be a fundamentalist and she describes all the various reasons people become fundamentalists. In my case, I was raised fundamentalist...much, much worse than being raised by wolves! At least wolves have a healthy social structure. :)