Where did this originate?

[n2mark]

I'm trying to understand this Merry Christmas vs Happy Holidays thing. Where did this come from? I don't understand the problem. If I am attending a Christmas event, I'll say Merry Christmas, most times I will say Happy Holidays to include everyone's beliefs and the season. Happy Holidays includes the entire holiday Christmas and the events and the New Year. What is with people? On Christmas Day, I'll say Merry Christmas, on New Years I'll say Happy New Year. The time between it is the holiday season so have a Happy Holiday. If you celebrate differently then have a Happy Holiday. I'm not taking Christ out of Christmas, I'm just saying enjoy the events of the season, it could be enjoy the spiritual, the gift wrapping, the parties, tree decorating whatever, just enjoy the time you are living with each other. Is this too difficult to comprehend?

I guess I live in my own world and cannot understand all the flak that is happening.

[TlalocW]

1. I'm not taking chances...

I'm telling people to go f*ck themselves. I figure it would be easier just to insult everyone. :)

TlalocW

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. "Bah Humbug" works too. nt

[comsymp]

28. Yeah, but

It lacks that personal touch of Tlaloc's... um... greeting.

[tsuki]

37. That's a good Cheney greeting. Nobody should object.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Basically...

The right wing wants to cram their beliefs down everyone's throats! They don't care if others are offended, as long as they get their way and somehow prove their religion is "better!" It is nothing more than a wedge issue!

[FM Arouet666]

4. I first heard the controversy on wing nut radio

I guess some people opted for Happy Holidays to be more inclusive, and the wing nuts picked up on it, and made it an issue. Demonize the left for taking christ out of christmas. More rubbish from hate radio.

[Az]

5. Two fold

As society becomes increasingly diverse the beliefs of people intermingle more and more. Imagine if an atheist wandered up to a fundementalist and proclaimed happy Darwin day (its a real holiday). Thus on a purely social context it is less likely to offend somebody if you exclude bringing a particular religious belief into the context. This aspect is not the primary reason for the shift in societies preference.

The real reason is entirely Capitalistic. Marketting wants to reach as wide a market as possible. It cannot afford to offend anyone. Thus corporations are typically the most sensitized in regards to holiday greetings. This job enforced secularization of the holiday is what affects more people than anything else.

For most people form their social circle from like minded people. They typically share similar beliefs and holidays. Thus they know who to greet with the appropriate saying. But in the corporate world you never know who is on the phone or what their social background is.

[dweller]

8. in other words,

(although your fingers did a superb job expressing your thoughts) we could just echo TlalocW's post above and cover it all in fewer words?


3 simple words, one finger. . . less energy.
dp

[bobbieinok]

6. a few days ago on DU people were talking about Happy Holidays

on cards from the 40s and 50s

[Ms. Clio]

11. And then there's the song "Happy Holiday" sung by Bing Crosby

in the movie Holiday Inn. Composed by Irving Berlin in 1942.

[Art_from_Ark]

27. "Holiday Greetings" was on Christmas seals

in the 1930s

[Ms. Clio]

31. Interesting--I wonder how far back it goes, and how it originated

Clearly it's much older than the so-called "culture war."

[Art_from_Ark]

35. Here are some examples

http://static.zoovy.com/img/mccraw/W254-H164-Bffffff/U/usa_ps_wx81

http://static.zoovy.com/img/mccraw/W99-H125-Bffffff/U/usa_ps_wx73

[Ms. Clio]

41. Thanks very much! n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

7. It's been going on for years...

and it started a while ago, maybe the '70s, when a whole bunch of non-Christians mentioned that they had holidays, too, or didn't, but had no real probelm with a general holiday season.

So, many businesses started wit the Happy Holidays thing so as not to offend, and it kind of took off in places where there was a large multicultural population.

There are no "Christians" complaining about this. Churches have been bemoaning the secularization of Christmas for as long as I've been alive, but kept it inside the church. "Keep Christ in Christmas" has been around for years, but it's a message to church members, not to the general public.

The latest rash of public whining is not from the churches, it is from a small goup of instigators using religion to divide us all and pick up the pieces, gaining their own power in the process.

Make no mistake about it, anyone who makes a public display of this does NOT speak for the 1 1/2 billion Christians around the world. They are politicians and oligarchs of the worst sort, and the thin veneer of religiousity they wear is seen through by most real believers.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. Agree. It's not the christians that are doing this,

it's the Talibornigains.

[pscot]

33. Christmas as a wedge issue

God bless Karl Rove.

[housewolf]

9. It's an attack in the Culture War

It's the Culture War-wagers keeping their base riled up, victimized and engaged.

[PurityOfEssence]

10. Jesus must be constantly invoked, or you're a fiend

Happy Holidays, all of you! It's a nice and sweet moment of joy when we all take the the age-old cessation of activity at the solstice and whoop it up for whatever reason.

Does neutrality mean nothing to people? Pretty much everyone takes a moment at this time to be with family and have a reasonable time. We all have our assumptions, but the communal spirit means more than the partisan attempts to WIN CONVERTS.

This should be a time of acceptance, and for most of us, it is.

Why force one's guesses onto others? They may have beliefs too. Some of them may even be officially sanctioned guesses.

So, Happy Holidays!

[HawkerHurricane]

12. And have a excellent Saturnalia...

(The original Dec. 25 celebration!)

[n2mark]

13. Thanks for nothing

You really didn't answer the question. Thanks for the sarcasm though, much appreciated.

[HawkerHurricane]

14. Plenty of answers above.

Why add a "I agree" when I can add more sarcasm?

OK, answer to the question...

Another made up 'emergency' to get the so called Christians of the Religious Reich riled up at 'liberals' over... right up there with other non-problems intended to get folks worried and voting Republicn.

Better?

[n2mark]

16. Maybe I'm tired and and not reading correctly

who exactly wants to get rid of Merry Christmas? I just never thought of this before. To me Merrry Christmas and Happy Holidays says the same thing just the later expresses the entire season. Merry Christmas expresses one day of the year.

[HawkerHurricane]

15. And back to the good old days...

http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/archive.asp?nextform=viewcomic&id=967

[rman]

17. originates from the RW noise machine

they make up wedge-issues.
it's just becoming more obvious now (maybe a sign they're getting desperate).

[arcos]

18. I agree, I think I've never seen such a stupid non-issue to fight about nt

[annabanana]

19. IT'S A BIG STINKIN' RED HERRING.......

And I AM SO TIRED of these stupid threads...
(stop taking the dang bait)

[TWiley]

20. It is improper to not evangelize.

Christians believe their primary purpose is to force everyone else to believe the way they do. Forcing people to say "Merry Christmas" is like forcing others to "take the (anti-communism) pledge" of the 50's. It opens the door on the topic of belief which affords them the opportunity to cram a size 12 shit-covered-boot down your throat.

In reality, they are miserable people, and need constant reassurance that they are on the right path. Folks who truly know they are on the right path are not offended by such flimsy issues.

The purpose of the "deviance" label is a religious one. It allows the truly miserable the comfort of believing that they are doing the right thing after all.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

21. Evangelizing isn't forcing, it's converting

And there is nothing wrong with witnessing for ANY religion. You can listen or you can ignore.

I would like to point out to everyone in this thread who keeps expressing this is a non-issue that it continues to motivate even people here. Imagine how people who truly believe in Christ feel?

Personally, I think everyone should use the expression THEY wish. I use Merry Christmas because it is the holiday I celebrate. I don't celebrate Kwanzaa or Hanukkah, etc.

[TWiley]

22. But, it IS your issue.

"Christmas is the holiday I celebrate"

Could it be possible that those who feel strongly about this "issue" have brought this "crisis" to those who don't?

And, I disagree on the issue of evangelizing. To me, it is the problem.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

23. Yes, it is ONE of my issues

I don't see any harm in any of the holiday greetings. Each of us should use the one we like or even none at all. But why be offended by any of them?

Sorry you don't like evangelizing, but freedom of religion guarantees the right to do so.

[TWiley]

26. Freedom of religion

refers to the free and uncoerced choice of the individual to practice whatever religion they choose.

If you feel that this practice would be protected by the idea of Freedom of religion, then I would disagree. The problem is that evangelical christians feel that their view is the only legitimate one, and the evangelists mission is to impose their values on the heathen. This is against the intent of the Freedom of Religion clause.

I would agree that it would be covered by the 1st amendment which protects the individuals right to free speech.

[Solon]

30. Evangalizing is spiritual assault...

Not to say that it should be illegal, but you really don't want to go there with me, believe me.

[AliciaKeyedUp]

34. I'm more than happy to go there

Freedom of speech includes speech you don't care to hear. In other words, if people are preaching and you hear it and don't like it, you can either preach back, listen or leave.

[InvisibleBallots]

40. that's silly

:eyes:

[InvisibleBallots]

38. here's a good example of overt, anti-Christian bigotry

"Christians believe their primary purpose is to force everyone else to believe the way they do."

This is, of course, a lie. There is no one in the US being forced to be a Christian, except for maybe kids being forced by their kids to go to Church.

So, why are you spreading lies about 80% of the American population?

[nascarblue]

24. You want to know where it came from? right here....

Isn't it amazing how the have been able to hijack ALL the cable news stations all month long?? That should scare you that they have this much pull. This free documentary hosted by Burt Lancaster in the late 80's will show you exactly where it came from, just how crazy these people are, and just how bad our rightwing controlled media has become. The same suspects that are at it today...This is A MUST SEE. Please foreward...

http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/liberty.wmv

[apple_ridge]

25. My RW wingnut mother has been bitching about this for

years. I just shake my head and tell her to try and focus on more important issues.

[Lorien]

32. The Reich Wing can't exist without hate

and since they've won pretty much EVERYTHING, they are desperately seeking SOMETHING to be pissed about.

[drscm]

36. The irony is that christians have been trying to christianize Christmas

since its inception.

Read any history of "Christmas" and you will discover that it was originally a pagan holiday that the Christians were trying to make religious. (for example, http://www.holidays.net/christmas/story.htm)

Last night I caught a blurb on the 700 club show as I was switching channels. They are suggesting that "real christians" should only shop at stores that say merry christmas.

For my part, this year I am celebrating christmas by working - pastoral care at a neighborhood hospital for those who will not be home with families.

[tsuki]

39. Our family has been saying Happy Holidays for my 57 years. As my

sainted Mother says, there are entirely too many people with too much time on their hands.

(And if it's good enough for Bing Crosby, it is good enough for Mom.)