What, ideally, is the purpose of prison?

[tuvor]

Poll question: What, ideally, is the purpose of prison?

Your utopian vision. Just curious. Me, I'm not sure.

[TwentyFive]

1. Keep criminals away from the general population.

Rehabilitation is also a worthy goal, but many people are not capable of being rehabitilated.

[tuvor]

4. I knew there'd be a good one I'd overlook. Added.

Thanks, TwentyFive! May I call you 25, or is that being too presumptuous?

[TwentyFive]

9. I'm just honored you took my post and added it to your poll.

I chose this because I have a relative who is a psychopath. These people are hard wired with no conscience. Very scary.

Oh yes....I like 25. It's my favorite number no matter how you say it.

[okieinpain]

14. agree

[jayctravis]

26. Agreed, and if someone is willing to attend rehab

they should be able to do that without being incarcerated.

Another choice would be: to apprehend someone with high probability of vanishing before a court date.

[Chipper Chat]

2. Whatever the legitimate purpose is.....

Prison is a great place to learn all there is to know about........same-sex sex.

[arcos]

3. a little bit of all of them, with an emphasis on rehabilitation... n/t

[tjwmason]

19. Ditto

As the actual word penitentiary implies.

[HEyHEY]

5. Interesting oyu bring this up today - I was a sentencing this morning

The guy had a psyhcotic episode and attacked his neighbour in her kitchen (a 16-year-old girl). He got six months house arrest becaue it is determined his use of drugs and booze induced the episode as it has before. The judge said he felt prison would not help. And said protection of society is important, but rehabilitation is the most important.
I'm a big fan of the rehab idea...but I think the guy should not have been given house arrest. He tried to KILL this girl. He belongs in a place where he can get help and will be kept from the public.
If he has a violent episode and kills someone..what good did house arrest do?

[tuvor]

7. Decisions like this make me think that we're TOO lenient a lot of the time

Were the drugs and booze forced on him? Did past experience not inform his present decisions?

God damn! I mean, I wouldn't want to be a judge for anything, but God damn, what is wrong with the judge?!

Must've been a hell of a mitigating circumstance or two hidden in there somewhere.

[HEyHEY]

8. This guy beat her so badly

She had a broken rib and a numerous bruises all over her body. The whole time he was repeating "I'm going to Kill you."

He just appeared in her kitchen...she had a good relationship with him and sheepishly said "Hi Carl" then he just attacked her. He would have killed her but she managed to work herself out from under him and knee him in the groin and get out of the house.

What parto of pshycotic episode Don't they get?

Yeah - I feel safe at night if he's my neighbour knowing he's under house arrest.

I feel bad for the guy it's a shame he's got this problem..but public safety is important

[pop goes the weasel]

11. the trouble is

not enough places to put someone like that to get proper treatment. Prison actually makes mental illness worse, so putting someone with psychosis in prison is not helpful. And drug-treatment in prisons in also non-existent, for the most part. From what I've read, any drug that can be had on the outside, can be had in prison. I think we need a new kind of prison, and a new kind of sentencing that maybe combines an element of punitive sentencing with on-going mental health treatment. Something that wouldn't leave unsupervised a person who has demonstrated a tendency toward violent delusions, but also wouldn't put that person where he was likely to just deteriorate further.

[jayctravis]

27. One major reason --

episode did not end in murder.

[bullimiami]

6. other.

i would think ideally, prison would be to seperate those whose anti-social behavior prohibits them repairing their crime otherwise.

[haele]

10. Twofold....

One -
To protect society at large from someone who, without remorse or mitigating circumstances, egregiously breaks social compacts against harming others within the community and
Two -
To provide for correcting or "paying for" the crime the person has been convicted of (after due process, of course), and to provide for a method of creating a second chance after that same crime has been paid for. That means education, help with coping skills and other mental/social therapy, and career development help. As well as a clean slate afterwards.

In a way it's sad; many people who find themselves in trouble with the law don't have the social skills or the temperament to live in a modern culture; there's no "frontier" left. These people can't just get away from the "things" clinging to their every step, the constant noise, lack of individual control and all the other distractions when they want to start over somewhere on their own and make a decent living out there. So, they start self-destructing - and start taking others around them with them.

So, what do we do at that point? What do we do with the borderline personalities and sociopaths? What do we do with people who may be nice enough people in some ways, but "make a wrong choice" when considering only their own wants and end up royally screwing up someone else's life and livelihood?
Not every crime requires the same checks and "punishments". Motive and mitigating circumstances (i.e. cognitive ability) may play a key part in how much responsibility the person charged really carries, but there's still a responsibility that person must take for their actions. If there's a viable alternative to prison for the people who willingly, knowingly commit crimes, can you please give me one?

It's tough, being both progressive and recognizing the need to take responsibility in life.

Haele

[HawkerHurricane]

12. All of the above.

I mean, really.

[samplegirl]

13. to learn Microwave

Recipes & compassion

[Undercover Owl]

15. wouldn't it be great...

In reality, prison seems to be a place to learn new tricks-of-the-criminal-trade, network with other, tougher criminals, get bad tattoos, and get ass-raped. (I've never been in jail, so it's just a guess).

It should be a place for keeping offenders away from the public, rehabilitation if possible, and lastly, punishment. I would venture to guess that most people in the US would cite punishment as the #1 purpose of prison. Punishment is not always a deterrent to crime.

We need to address the underlying causes of crime first. Prevention is the key!

[Selatius]

16. Can rehab reduce our incredible crime levels?

Looking at the US prison system, it seems to me the only thing it's doing is simply inflicting pain and misery on inmates who've committed crimes, and there's a bunch in there who've not committed serious crimes.

If we tried to rehabilitate these people instead of simply trying to do what we're presently doing to inmates, would we be able to break the cycle? Be able to help people instead of simply setting up a revolving-door system where crooks who haven't been encouraged to change simply end up back in the cells at some later date?

Would this help to bring down our crime levels in the big picture? Of course, there are those who are beyond help and must be kept away from the general population, but how many more are there that can be reformed?

[sandnsea]

17. Depends on the criminal

Rehab for alot of them. Some really do need to just be kept out of society. Some are very mentally disturbed and should be in secure and quality institutions. None should be in the punitive kind of system we have now. Serves no purpose and sends society the message that there are humans we can treat like animals. Good message!

[LostInAnomie]

18. I think there are supposed to be 5 reasons

1. Retribution - Understandable but should that really be a goal
2. Rehabilitation - A noble goal, but unlikely in many cases
3. Specific Deterrent - Doesn't seem to work with the high rates of recidivism
4. General Deterrent - Doesn't seem to work either since most people who commit crimes think that they won't be caught. Most people it have an effect on are already kept in control by social pressure
5. Incapacitation - It seems cruel to hold someone until they are no longer a threat, but it has to be done in some cases.

The answer falls somewhere in between those 5.

[Pepperbelly]

20. I worked in a state prison system for about 10 years and ...

rose pretty high in the organization. We would talk about this from time to time. Of course, generally, when one is involved in the workaday administration of a program, there is rarely time to reflect on philospohical underpinnings but one incident I remember quite well.

I was in Internal Affairs at the time and we were, as a group, wrestling with a large project, one in which we found substantial abuse of inmates. Like any investigators, when we got closer to tying the entire thing up, we were working very long hours trying to put together a final report for the Director as well as the Board of Corrections.

During the process, while visiting with one of the professionals involved, a fellow who had been there for 15 years, an Ivy League grad and dedicated bureaucrat, he said, "I just hope that I make it to retirement before they realize that we don't have a clue about what we're supposed to do with these folks."

Of course, for the professionals in the business, it was clear what he was talking about. Our mission was, basically, in the parlance of a real old-timer, was to keep the inmates from fighting, fucking or running. And that was about all we could manage.

Anything farther? No way. It's all that admistrators can manage and new help could do no better.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jack_DeLeon]

22. To punish those who cannot be rehabilitated....

and to rehabiliate those that can.

As it stands now our prisons are a failure. They do neither job very well.

We definately need two types of prisons, those for people who have a chance to fix thier lives, and one for lifers who will either get the death penalty or should serve hard time.

[porkrind]

23. I'm no expert, but it seems obvious what the goal should be...

We SHOULD be trying to transform this person into the kind of person we want to live with when they get out. We SHOULD NOT be turning petty criminals into violent thugs by placing them into an unsafe, fearful, and violent environment for years-on-end.

The people who make it into prison do not meet the minimum of what society desires of them, so the goal should be to turn them into what society wants. This would be rehabilitation for those who it might work on, and a long/permanent time out for the rest.

The ideal situation, IMHO, would be for inmates to be totally isolated from each other. I think this is a huge failing with the current system. You wouldn't want a regular citizen to associate with criminals, and I don't think it's good for inmates, either. They are a bad influence. In fact, associating with bad people may have been a contributing factor to why they are in prison in the first place. Also, associating with their criminal peers makes them fear for their personal safety. No rehabilitation can occur in an environment of fear. I think solitary confinement except for interaction with staff is best.

I also think inmates, while in solitary confinement with staff/instructor-only interaction should be subject to regular education and positive propaganda. We should be trying to transform this person into the kind of person we want in society. Give them a college education. Give them a trade. Educate them in culture and art and the great things of civilization. We want to permanently fix the problem these people, not turn them into thugs, and then later release them back into society.

It's crazy what we are doing now, incarcerating minor drug violators and housing them with thugs for several years, transforming them into thugs themselves, and then letting them go back to terrorize society. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Not to mention, extremely costly.

[TeddyK]

24. rehabilitation not even close

I think rehabilitation may be a goal for prisons but I believe that said goal falls far far short in achievement, two thirds of people released from prison are arrested again. It just isn't working.

[Hippo_Tron]

25. A little bit of all of them, but there SHOULD be more emphasis on rehab...

Prisons are a basic form of punishment, which is an important part of having justice. Basically, knowing that the justice system is there and the fact that you could go to prison is a deterrant for crime (of course, some try to make the same argument for the death penalty, and they would be WRONG). But once they are there, rehabillitation is essential so that when they return to the streets, they don't commit more crime.

[DemBones DemBones]

28. Our prison system, bad as it is today, actually

developed as a new, improved way of dealing with criminals from what had gone before: public beatings, putting people in "the stocks," much, much worse prisons, and executions for crimes far less than murder. The Quakers were major forces in prison reform in the early days of the United States, believing in the goodness of man, believing in rehabilitation, and apparently succeeding in rehabilitating many prisoners. Of course, in those days, many prisoners were debtors, not true criminals.

Rehabilitation is still the ideal but the reality is far from the ideal. There are many in prison today who need to be kept out of the general population indefinitely. Others (minor drug offenders) shouldn't be there in the first place, IMO.