What to say to the anti-tax whiners of the right.

[bobweaver]

When Republicans, conservatives and any other anti-tax maniacs complain to you in person about taxation in general, how high their taxes are, or say things like "Uncle Sam took it all in taxes" or how "liberals want to take all my money with taxes," that sort of thing... here's something you can say to that.

"I don't mind paying my taxes at all. It's what they spend it on that's what I don't like. I think people who are against taxes are selfish. I have no problem with doing my tax returns and sending the check. What I don't like is the money going to drop bombs on innocent children in Baghdad, where the money should have gone to educating children in the U.S."

"But it's your money! It's your money!" the anti-tax types always say.
"Yes and for that reason I think I should be able to designate what it's going to be spent on. I should be able to allocate it myself, not let some stuffed shirts in congress take it and spend it on another unnecessary aircraft carrier like the Ronald Reagan. The Constellation was completely functional, there was no need to replace it."

[durablend]

1. You've got to understand...

They're only against taxes for the well off...they don't have a problem taxing the pee-ons that can ill afford it.

[bobweaver]

3. Grover Norquist was on NOW with Bill Moyers

First they showed a piece about a waitress in Nevada, and she was complaining about the high cost of everything compared to the wages she makes, and after the piece, Moyers asked Norquist what would he say to her, and his response was to the effect that taxes are too high, and if taxes were lowered she would have an easier time. Moyers let that go and went on to the next question, but I wish he had said to Norquist, "But she's not complaining about taxes, she's complaining about the high cost of goods and services today, especially in relation to wages! That's the problem for her and for millions of other Americans - not taxes, the high cost of living and low pay - equals a low standard of living. Cutting her taxes isn't going to make a dent in that equation."

[tsuki]

9. Screw GN, you should be on with Moyers.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Very good points

Back in the 60s, Mad Magazine did a piece on taxes. Their plan was to allow everyone to write in what they wanted their taxes to go-like the military, parks and national monuments, highways, etc. Although it was satire, I thought it was a really good idea. Imagine! The branches of government competing for your tax dollar! They'd have to show they were using their funds well, and show how important their work was in order to get enough revenue to continue!

[WoodrowFan]

39. I read that in a science fiction story in the 80s.

Not sure if workable but interesting idea. The story was a series of vignettes of people deciding where their taxes would go. The man whose grandkids were in school designated it for education, the person whose niece was into dance put some toward the NEA (Arts). etc.

[InvisibleBallots]

4. Bush raised everyone taxes by more than 33%

First of all, debt is a tax, and Bush has put us in debt more than ever before - that's a huge tax increase.

Second, Bush has devalued the dollar by nearly a third - another tax on every single America.

Bush raised taxes on nearly everyone - except for the wealthy, of course - they got big tax cuts.

[BOSSHOG]

5. Tax issues are a hoot in red states

where on average more federal money comes in then goes out. The poor, unwashed masses here in Mississippi depend mightily on State and Federal assistance but they are quite vocal in their opposition to tax and spend liberals from "Taxachusetts." Pathetic and funny at the same time. The MS Governor is a consistent conservative. He will die before he raises taxes. But he knows the trickle down effect. Counties and municipalities are now being strapped with bills that must be paid; by people who can't afford tax increases who benefit the most from tax money and who howl the loudest about taxation. God Bless America.

[SemperEadem]

34. Ironic, isn't it

people who can't afford tax increases who benefit the most from tax money and who howl the loudest about taxation.

They don't seem to have a problem with FEMA when a natural disaster rolls through. That money doesn't grow on trees--it's tax money. If they were consistent in their rhetoric, they wouldn't seek FEMA funds to rebuild after a natural disaster.

[w4rma]

6. Repugs raise taxes more than Dems. Repugs do it in shifty ways.

They hide their tax increases in the fine print and put the majority of those tax increases on everyone except billionares.

[durablend]

8. They also raise taxes...

At the state level by withholding/cutting funds at the federal level...they consider that as an added bonus when the state has a democratic governor.

[Kansas Wyatt]

25. I've told people that for the last four years...

That Shrub's tax cuts are only shifting the tax burden to the State and Local Governments, and that it will come back to bite the middle and lower classes. For some reason, Shrub minions just cannot except that Shrub has not given them anything back and they will pay more later.

[Canuckistanian]

7. These "self-made" conservatives depend on Govt. services...

They ride into work on govt roads protected by govt police forces, govt courts enforce rules to prevent anarchy, govt forces guard their borders, govt regulators curb (barely) business shenanigans and govt grants are freely available for R&D, venture capital market development, land grants, appropriations, foreign service aid, scientific services, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention outright payoffs buyouts and tariffs that keep American companies solvent and profitable.

But when they want government to "get their nose out of our business" they better be willing to pay for all these services themselves WITHOUT WHINING.

[Mabel Dodge]

10. I really hate tax whiners….

Everyone in this society, who is capable, is responsible for its upkeep. If you want roads, you have to pay for them, if you want schools you have to pay for them, if you want protection you have to pay for it.

We are also obligated to help out the less fortunate, if for no other reason than enlightened self interest. The better off everyone is, the fewer problems we as a society have to deal with.

Just like your home, the more you spend on it the nicer it is. Screw the Republicans; I don’t want to live in a run down society any more than I want to live in a run down house.

[Dees]

11. Repukes want working folks to pay higher taxes,

not the wealthy of course, so there is more revenue and more for them to steal.

[Arianrhod]

12. I prefer a simpler approach.

I merely ask them how they propose paying military salaries for the men and women who are dying on their behalf.

[pansypoo53219]

13. WE must start yammering

about the BIRTH tax.
which i am getting out of by not breeding.

[Deja Q]

17. Birth tax?!?!?! WTF! Where?

I've got to read it!

[DireStrike]

19. Birth tax is a newborn's share of the National Debt.

[Deja Q]

33. Thanks

[Calvinist Basset]

14. I'm with you on this.

In fact, I love telling my conservative Christian acquaintances that taxes have the potential of being the most efficient way to follow the biblical mandate of caring for your neighbors.

[SOS]

15. How about we abolish the Federal income tax

and revert all taxation and spending issues to the states.
The states could then send their share of the DoD budget and debt interest to Washington based on population.
The paradox here is that by abolishing the federal income tax, the red state governments would be financially crushed and the blue would keep an extra 20-40% of THEIR money.

[More Than A Feeling]

22. We tried this before under the articles of confederation.

The single biggest weakness of that government was the inability to tax. The states refused to send the requisitioned funds. Part of the reason why the constitution was written.

[OnionPatch]

16. I usually ask them if they want the military cut

and, of course, they'll say no. Then I say, well, I don't appreciate my taxes being spent on so much military stuff, (and believe me that's where the bulk of the money goes) the same as you don't want your taxes being spent on so many domestic programs. Somewhere along the line, we have to compromise. And if you don't want taxes to help the poor, then you need to support the raising of the minimum wage. It's just immoral to expect someone to work full-time without being able to afford life's necessities.

[forgethell]

18. Your last paragraph

hits the nail right on the head. If you could designate it, yourself, it wouldn't be 'taxes'. You dislike spending money on taxes, they dislike spending it on 'welfare queens', pork-barrel projects, etc.

Also, tell the truth now. If you could designate exactly where your taxes went, and how much you sent, would you really send as much to the government as you do now???

[sandnsea]

20. Your money, also your debt

$25,000 per person and counting.

[American Tragedy]

21. What I find so strange and ironic is that the Republicans

are so determined to engage in war, and attack Democrats for rejecting defense budgets (and quietly ignore Republicans who do likewise), but they start throwing a fucking tantrum when as taxpayers they are asked to pay for these things. Or for that matter, invest at all in the military and domestic interests of the country.

It seems pretty unpatriotic to be unwilling to finance the country from which you have so benefited, and supposedly adore so much. You can't support states like Mississippi and Alabama without funding, you can't have a 'strong defense' without money, and you sure as hell can't have a war without it!

Seriously, lurking freepers, Right Wing News, and our other reactionary fans, care to explain this logic to me?

[agincourt]

23. Their "explanation" always is,

if you cut taxes for the rich, money appears out of nowhere for everybody to spend. That increases the revenue for the gov't to take in. This is always "true" no matter how big the deficits get. It's a faith based government that says if you take 2 from 7 you get 10. I had thought we'd outgrown the voodoo economics myth in the "90s. I was wrong.

[American Tragedy]

26. That's an... interesting idea.

Aside from the obvious fact that debts must be paid eventually, I've always struggled with supply-side economics, for basic common-sense reasons. Even if production is increased, it is quite useless if it exceeds demand. This outcome is especially likely if you cut out benefits like SS that allow underprivileged people to continue to participate in the economy. What good is it, if an entrepreneur is able to manufacture two million more cars, but there are no consumers left to buy them? Henry Ford learned that dilemma the hard way.

[progressivebydesign]

24. My friend in Belgium tells me they pay 50% and up in taxes..

.. and they have to pay for school buses for their kids, etc. I have zero problem paying my taxes because of all the good they do. I only wish they did not go to so much bullshit republican things, like war.

[ThoughtCriminal]

27. Whiners often have no clue about Fed budget

They still think 90% of it is for welfare queens and foreign aid to commies.

[Hamlette]

28. It is NOT your money, it is not MY money, it is payment of our debt

think of taxes like paying your credit card. You put the building and maintenance of highways, fire departments, police, prosecutors, wars, courts, national parks, everyone you use, on the credit card. April 15th is when the bill comes due.

People who complain about taxes are deadbeats. They want something for nothing.

If they whine about "welfare" remind them that ALL the welfare programs together, including food stamps which really helps farmers as much as poor people, amounts to less than 2% of the federal budget.

Interest in the debt amounts to 20% of the federal budget. Pay off the debt you save more money than throwing a few thousand poor people onto the streets.

Oh yeah, and foreign aid is less than 2% as well.

[OneTwentyoNine]

30. Yeah...but Freepers consider SS to be welfare...

Right up until the time they turn 62 or 65 and high tail their ass down to the local SS office to sign up for their payments.

Bet they quit their RW SS/Welfare talking points when that first check arrives.

[Hamlette]

31. insane, you'd think they would appreciate it when their parents need it

it surely hit home with me when my parents retired. Not as much for the SS itself as for Medicare. Had it not been for Medicare it would have bankrupted my family for 3 generations just with my father's final illness.

Do these people not see it with prior generations? Grandparents, parents? Do they not know who is paying the medical bills for those people?

[beardown]

32. About that 'my' money thing

Somewhat along of the lines of your post, I frequently, nowadays that means about every 5 minutes, hear that it's my money or your money. Well, money don't mean squat without a government behind it and society recognizing it for value. I'm discounting the old system of banks printing their own money because if it was such a good idea, why isn't it still in place.
Drop two folks out into the middle of the Australian Outback. One with no money, but food and water. The other with one million in cash, five million in bearer bonds, and a bank account book showing twenty million in the bank. Guess what one dies?
The only way that anyone, no matter how innovative or how business smart or how motivated they are, can accumulate vast wealth is if you have a government supporting and validating the wealth creating and wealth accumulating and wealth protecting structures. If you've become one of the winners in the government protected and supported system then you have a greater stake in paying for the continued success of the system.
The 'taxes are too high' crowd also insults the blood and life taxes that are paid largely by the non-rich by serving in the military. As was said here before, Bush's crowd believes that it's an honor to die for your country, but paying taxes to support the war effort is a burden.
Flat tax my ass.

[newyawker99]

38. Hi beardown!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[indypaul]

29. Governments meet

their fiscal obligations one of three ways. Taxation,
inflation or repudiation. Borrowing is certainly NOT
one of them. Since most of the complainers want to
avoid the taxation method ask them to pick from the
other two. We may have to choose one of them during
the next four years anyway.

[Jade Fox]

35. Tell them next time a pothole forms on their street.....

they should fix it themselves since they don't believe in taxes.

[Hippo_Tron]

36. Here's how I see it...

Some asshole got up infront of the school at assembly to give a speech about why he is a conservative. It basically amounted to "my daddy is a lawyer, he works hard for his money, he should get to keep it."

Here's my response. Your dad does work hard, and does deserve his money. But there is also a guy who works just as hard as your dad in a factory for $9 an hour who can't afford healthcare and can't give his kids a decent education. All that I suggest is that he be given basic assistance from society, and healthcare and a decent education for his kid are basic assistance.

And in the end, your dad will still drive a much nicer car, live in a much nicer house, and take much nicer vacations (hell the guy making $9 an hour won't take any at all), it's how a capitalist society works and I don't have a problem with that. I just think that everybody should have the BASIC needs for a decent life.

People on the top should contribute to the basic needs of the people on the bottom who are partly responsible for them being there.

[ixat]

37. Well, that's a very democratic idea, but a lousy one, I'm afraid.

The whole point of taxes is that the gov't takes some of your money and redistributes it in ways that you don't necessarily agree with. If you could decide how your tax money is to be spent, how would that be different from the Rep/libertarian position of paying no taxes at all? What would happen to social programs then?

Of course, this is not to say that you should put up or shut up, but there are other, better ways of influencing government policy than this.

[knight_of_the_star]

41. Here's something to say to them

You want to eliminate taxes, then go for it. We can just go back to using the feudal system to support our military, you know where the NOBILITY and the RICH are expected to either go fight or pay people to go fight. I'm sure they'll LOVE having to pay for our military directly that way.