Criminy. Yushchenko's turning into green cheese!

[charlie]

[Meme]

1. the face of democracy?

no matter what you think of him, he really is a fighter isnt he :s Not sure if I´d still have the courage doing what he does.

[Karenina]

3. He's a DEAD MAN.

[indigobusiness]

8. I think he is undergoing intravenous chelation therapy...

and the prognosis is good. Maybe more hopeful than good. I hope he pulls through.

Lately, I have felt like he looks.

[NorthernSpy]

28. why would they do that?

Chelating agents help to remove metal-complexes from the body. They're used for things like lead, arsenic, and radionuclide poisoning. Why would someone use them on a person who had been dosed with a non-metallic chlorine compound?

I mean, the more I read about this story, the less it all seems to add up.

[indigobusiness]

29. I could be wrong. I thought I heard that early in the story.

Maybe before they pinned it down, they thought it couldn't hurt?

I'm probably mistaken. Please disregard.

[NorthernSpy]

31. but you are not necessarily mistaken about what you heard

It's not your fault, Indigobusiness. You may well have heard correctly: that's just it! There are other things about the whole Yushenko poisoning story that don't really make sense to me.

I'll have to mull this over and put my thoughts in order.

[indigobusiness]

34. I'd be very interested in your thoughts on this.

You point out an interesting aspect of the story and the dissemination of information.

How are you puzzled by this story, specifically?

[Carl Brennan]

52. Chelation also removes cholesterol. This

was discovered in the 30's or so when alot of people with lead contamination showed improved circulatory systems after chelation therapy.

Many of the patients that were in my clinic were there to get chelation specifically for blocked arteries. I talked to numerous people over a couple of years who avoided heart surgery with chelation.

I don't know about dioxin though.

[Carl Brennan]

51. I've been through 30 three hour session of chelation for heavy metal

contamination. It's rough and you have to be real careful about taking your vitamin supplements religiously.

[charlie]

4. I can't imagine how he does it

He's really sick, the guy's got to be hurting most of the time.

[Straight Shooter]

2. He's very ill from dioxin. The doctors think the effects can be reversed.

For his sake, I hope so. But I'd rather have a leader whose face looks like green cheese than a "leader" with a brain of green cheese.

[Vektor]

5. OMG

The poor man. I read that the facial disfiguring caused by his dioxin poisoning WILL eventually heal, but it may take up to 3-4 years for the tissues to rejuvenate fully, and that he is only going to look worse before he looks better.

I feel so sorry for him, and yes, he is a fighter.

[complain jane]

6. yikes

holy crap

[Vektor]

7. Also...

Medical reports have been saying that while his skin has suffered great trauma, his internal organs are pretty much unscathed and he is expected to recover.

[NorthernSpy]

20. if it was dioxin, that's impossible

Dioxin is a lipid-soluble compound, and like most lipid-soluble substances, the body does not clear it readily. Its half-life in the human body is several years. If he was exposed to dioxin, his liver ought to be full of the stuff.

I seriously doubt that Mr. Yushenko has suffered dioxin poisoning.

[Vektor]

24. They did say it will take years for his face to heal...

I'm just going by what I have been reading so far, that his internal organs fared far better than his face. I know they have stated that the Dioxin level in his blood was the second highest ever recorded in a human. Which part do you think is inaccurate? The part about him actually testing positive for high Dioxin levels, or the diagnosis of no apparent organ damage?

As one other reader pointed out, the skin and liver both are organs of elimination, and the liver can very very resilient. Perhaps he was able to clear the poison somewhat successfully, but his skin suffered most of the effects? Also, he could have liver damage, but since the liver does have great restorative properties, in an otherwise healthy man, once he is under treatment, perhaps any taxing effects on his liver could be reversed in time?
What do you think?
:shrug:

[Vektor]

26. Oh, BTW...

The lady who tested with the world's highest level DID actualy recover. Crazy.

[nankerphelge]

27. I have no reason to disbelieve...

the experts that have been commenting to the media. They said it was dioxin.

[SmokingJacket]

30. Do you have an alternative explanation for what happened to him?

I'm curious -- something did.

I'm no doctor, so I have no idea.

[NorthernSpy]

32. Not at the moment. But I do have questions.

There are some things that I would like to read up on and consider first before taking a stab at offering an alternative explanation.

I'm just not ready to drink the dioxin theory kool-aid, ya know...?

[reorg]

33. from a doctor's blog: Alcoholic pancreatitis

http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/codeblueblog/2004/12/attack_of_the_p.html


see also:

http://www.counterpunch.org/nagle12202004.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/nagle12222004.html


for wider context:

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/SCH412C.html

[Vektor]

37. Do you think...

...they are lying about the high Dioxin levels found in his blood? I have encountered many patients with alcoholic pancreatitis before, and have never witnessed a level of disfigurement this severe. Acne Rosacea, typically associated with alcohol abuse, and Chloracne resulting from toxicity are very different afflictions, and present very differently. This man clearly has a far more severe condition than the Rosacea caused by alcoholism. He went from looking completely robust, healthy, and normal to grossly disfigured in a matter of weeks. No amount of heavy drinking would do that. The severity and rapidity of the onset of his symptoms is more indicative of a high, concentrated dose of poisonous toxin. I tend to believe the accounts of Dioxin poisoning, simply because he is a textbook picture of a patient suffering from that ailment, plus the test results (if accurate) confirm abnormally high levels of the substance in his blood.

As far as the theory that you are "far more likely to see an uncommon presentation of a common illness than a common presentation of an uncommon illness"...well, that isn't exactly true.

In addition, Dioxin poisoning is not an "uncommon illness." If this is indeed what is ailing him, it is not a randomly occurring "sickness." It would have been a calculated attempt by someone to harm/kill him by administering a lethal substance. Investigators are not supposing he "randomly fell ill", but that someone did this to him.

[Occulus]

57. Does Dioxin poisoning cause cancer later on?

I think I read that here, when the dioxin diagnosis was first reported...

[tavalon]

58. Yup

Not definitely but he's likely to have a much shortened lifespan, though given the level of dioxin he tested at, he should already be dead. Resilient sucker, he is.

[Vektor]

59. It can -

A person exposed to this toxin can be left more susceptible to certain types of cancers, and oddly, LESS susceptible to other types. Even a commonly prescribed medication, like birth control pills for instance, can have these properties. Most studies indicate that long term use may leave a woman more susceptible to breast cancer, but LESS to ovarian cancer...

Only time will tell what is going to happen to Yushchenko - hopefully, his doctors, knowing of the risks associated, can screen him for cancer markers more often than they would a routine patient.

[Razorback_Democrat]

48. And if it is lipid soluble, the his brain must look like his face? n/t

[Radio-Active]

84. But everybody is exposed to some dioxin through their diets..

http://www.ejnet.org/dioxin/

[Killarney]

9. that poor man!

:(

[Kolesar]

10. I fear if he dies

What will happen? Will Yanukovich make his move back into power?

[susierock]

13. Yanukovich can't fight a martyr

I think Obi-Wan Kenobi said it best: "if you kill me <Darth Vader>, I will become stronger than you can imagine."

[Hippo_Tron]

65. My guess is that the leader of parliament is first in line of succession

Since they have no Vice President to my knowledge. The question is, though, do they hold a special election or does the leader of parliament serve the remaineder of the term?

[Flammable Materials]

11. I've been following photos of him over the past several days.

Out of all of them, this one is by far the worst.

If I didn't know better, given the fact that he still looks relatively human in the others, I'd suspect that there are a few photographers out there loyal to the other candidate who wouldn't be above 'adjusting' the color levels in their photographs. (Remember "Orange" Kerry?)

[Midlodemocrat]

12. That poor man

imagine what his insides look like.

[w4rma]

14. There is some serious evilness goin' down in the world, right now.

Keep fighting, Yushchenko.

[jellybelly]

15. ?

does anybody know why the dioxin poisoning only affected his face?

[Vektor]

17. Hi, jellybelly...

Here is a great link about Dioxin poisoning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxin

Though I do not have a lot of experience with Dioxin, per se, as a health care worker, who has treated many patients with toxin poisoning, it is common for the first warning sign to be changes in the skin. It's possible that with Dioxin poisoning, the effects that appear on the skin show up more rapidly and with less exposure than long term organ damage would. From what I understand, they are still trying to figure out if he was poisoned with one small, pure dose of Dioxin or prolonged, dilute doses. It's sad, he was a very handsome man before this, the toxins have been horribly disfiguring and the damage will take years to reverse.
Thankfully, his prognosis is good.

[Doremus]

50. There was only one opportunity for the poisoning to occur

A dinner meeting with the head of the security agency as I recall. That was the only function where he didn't have his food tasted before eating it.

[Vektor]

53. Oh, yeah...

I've heard about that dinner, and how they suspect that was when it happened. Totally possible... I wonder, though, if he could have his food tasted by others, but since it was much smaller doses to the tasters, they wouldn't didn't get sick? Yushchenko would, if he were exposed over and over to high quantities and larger amounts than one would get from just tasting the food, vs. eating the whole plate -- repeatedly.


It's hard to say. Creepy stuff. I'd be interested in using highly sensitive blood tests on anyone who tasted his food, just to see if anyone else close to him has been exposed.
:shrug:

[amazona]

19. the skin is an organ of elimination

His liver and his skin, especially on his face, is most likely to be severely affected with this poison.

[Vektor]

22. Right...

Thanks, Amazona - have you heard anything specific about any liver damage? I haven't. Only that internally, he looks ok, despite the dermal effects.

[Eric J in MN]

23. I think she means why does his hand look fine but not his face (nt)

nt

[Vektor]

25. Oh ok, then...

As far as his face vs. hand, one of the effects of Dioxin, called "Chloracne" is a cystic acne condition that most greatly affects the face.

[politicat]

74. I seem to recall it has to do with the amount of sebaceous glands per

square centimeter of skin. Sebaceous glands are the more oily skin glands, that are more dense on the face and scalp than on the hands, feet and other hairless zones. I seem to recall that this is the reason why we get facial acne but not pimples on the backs of our hands, for instance.

Sebaceous glands excrete a fatty, oily substance, and since dioxin is lipid soluable, it makes sense that those organs of the body that excrete fatty substances would be more affected. I'd expect his gall bladder to be a rather unpleasant place at the moment.

Pcat

[russian33]

16. Yes, he looks really bad

But I'm reading all the other posts...you guys realize that he's bought and paid for by the current US administration, right? Not sure that's something to be happy about.

[Tinoire]

18. Zdrastvuy Alex

Spasibo bol'shoe.

That's a very difficult question around here. Thank you for bringing that up. Please, next time there's a thread about Kosovo or Yugoslavia, drop in. I would like to read your insight.

Poka :hi:

And yes, he looks horrible. My heart breaks for him as a human being everytime I see pictures.

On edit: There's a question for you here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2868244

[russian33]

36. You summarized it pretty well in that thread

I'm not saying Yanukovich is an angel, but when people scream murder about him, I hope they see the other guy, the one that's pushing 'democracy', for what he is.

By the way, did you know his partner, Yulia Timoshenko, is not even Ukrainian? Just found that out today...apparently she's half Russian, half Armenian, the last name is her husband's.

[TankLV]

42. She Ukrainian American - just like I am.

Born and raised in the US. Married him later.

She is neither Armenian nor Russian.

100% Ukrainian - from both sets of parents' families.

[russian33]

45. How can she be a US citizen, if she held a gov't post in Ukraine?

She was a vice-prime minister or something like that at some point.

[russian33]

55. Yuschchenko's wife is a Ukrainian-American, not Timoshenko

What many Westerners do not realize, however, is when Mr. Yushchenko takes the seat of power, at his side will be a tough minded, savvy American-raised businesswoman. His wife, Kateryna Chumachenko Yushchenko, is the daughter of Ukrainian immigrants who grew up steeped in the traditions of her ancestral homeland.

[Tinoire]

63. See post 61. US Citizen. Bush Administration "dedicated conservative"

On edit.... Just saw in another thread that you're aware of this. Lol, and I had to go to Free Republic to find it!

On 2nd edit... So I added more, just for you!

[Vektor]

21. What makes you say that?

I'm not disagreeing, I just don't know a whole lot about that issue. I do feel terrible for him being poisoned like that, though.
What I have heard about his opponent is not positive - that he is violent - and a dangerous, questionable man.
(Heeeeyyy..kind of like someone else we know.) ;-)

[russian33]

38. check out this link

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=10108&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

The Bush administration has spent more than $65 million in the past two years to aid political organizations in Ukraine, paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet U.S. leaders and helping to underwrite exit polls indicating he won last month's disputed runoff election.

[Lexingtonian]

35. it's not that simple

And you know perfectly well that Yanukovich is the Kremlin's butt boy. I imagine that being tied to Washington comes with a smaller degree of servitude. Probably far smaller.

Then again, I don't see why Ukraine shouldn't quietly partition turn over some of those eastern parts over to do as they like- i.e. join Russia if that's what they consider an excellent idea. Czechoslovakia partitioned and is now 'reunited' in the EU. Yugoslavia did it a rather more problematic fashion.

[russian33]

39. You got 2 stooges

One is a Kremlin stooge and one is a Washington stooge, its a question of who you're better off with. With this administration, the one who's motto is squeeze everything they got, and then leave 'em...I'd say Ukraine should stick with Russia, and keep those relations good. But that's me...I don't live in Ukraine. (Personally, I never understood the animosity between the 2, Ukraine and Russia. For chrissake, it used to Kiev Russ ages ago, one big empire, and then they split up).

[Lexingtonian]

41. true

But, from what little I know, Ukraine has consistently gotten the short end of the stick from Russia for the past 15 years. With friends like that Ukraine hasn't needed any enemies. They didn't have a Siberia to plunder for oil and ores and maintain a certain amount of wealth coming into the country, either. Getting stuck with the very useless and expensive Black Sea fleet was also not a good move.

But you're right. Neither of the two can actually do all that much to help average Ukrainians and both can do more to make conditions worse. But as you point out via your critique of Ms Timoshenkaya, there's a lot of social and political and economic detritus left from the USSR- bad alliances and stupid schisms and misdistributions of everything, people with marginal loyalties and interests- that will be dealt with piece by piece. All I can say is that Yanukovich winning is more of the pseudofeudal/oligarch system that emanates from Moscow being imposed and status quo in that manner.

Ukrainian society is a bit different, more 'European face' from what impression I've gotten. More Greek and Balkan influenced, for one thing, from the Black Sea cities, and more strongly defined by its particular steppe peoples (who weren't as Asiatic) overall than Russian society.

[TankLV]

44. Umm - more like hundreds of years - or almost a thousand.

Every since the Russian Empire got started.

The past 15 years are like heaven compared to that.

[russian33]

47. Whatever the outcome is, I hope the average Ukrainian citizen..

..can see their lives improve.

This is where my defense of Putin comes from...I don't know what his ultimate plan is, but his Presidency has made a life of an average Russian better, I know, because I have a lot of family there, who're middle class. I wish the same for the people of Ukraine.

[TankLV]

43. The Russians killed MILLIONS of Ukrainians int the great famine

in the early part of the century.

Then they sent in their russian goons to colonize the ramainder of the country - forbade anyone from speaking Ukrainian or learning anything other than Russian history, etc.

All Ukrainian culture was banned under the Russian boot.

It's hard to forgive something like that.

[russian33]

46. What great famine? Oh never mind...forget I asked

[TankLV]

54. Just a few links among 67,000 hits

http://www.infoukes.com/history/famine/
http://www.infoukes.com/history/famine/bibliography/
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/ukra.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~utzdana/ukraine.htm

For all you doubters and defenders of the "poor Russians" in the Ukraine.

Russian carpet baggers and thugs is more accurate.

[Tinoire]

69. Trouble is we're just changing 1 thug for another

We will privatize your resources and dismantle the country, selling each piece of to the highest bidder.

Was the best thug chosen do you think?

[Hippo_Tron]

64. It's easy to forgive when the Russian people didn't make that decission

I don't know under what leader this happened under, my guess would either be Stalin or Brezhnev but either way, they were both dictators and made these decissions on their own. Thus I blame it on the totalitarian ruler of Russia, not on the whole country.

[Hippo_Tron]

66. That may all be true, nonetheless there should be fair elections

Yuschenko may be just a Washington puppet, but that doesn't change the fact that the election was wrongfully stolen from him.

[russian33]

75. The problem with this is...

...the money that were spent on the exit polls that showed that the election was supposedly 'stolen' came from Bush Administration, thru various political committees, so I question the legality of that argument...although I won't go as far as to say I don't believe that the election wasn't stolen. My problem with this guy is his previous dealings in Ukraine, and his wife's ties to the conservatives in this country. I don't think the life of the average Ukrainian is on their mind.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. Weren't there videos of people being harassed at the polls?

That's proof enough of fraudulant elections. Again, I know nothing about this guy, so I won't comment on whether I think that he's a good guy or not, but I think that he is legitimately the winner of the election and thus should be president.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

56. So?

What's your point? Is there something inherently wrong with anything pushed or funded by the United States government? I can be as anti-Bush as the next guy, but come on..

[reorg]

62. A Candidate for the New World Order

view from the other side:

>> ...

What is obvious is that the West’s preference for Yushchenko stems not from his democratic credentials or his championing of the rights Ukrainians, but precisely the opposite: from his contribution to increasing the cost of living in Ukraine. Prime Minister Yushchenko succeeded in selling off several regional electricity distribution enterprises (oblenergos) in western Ukraine to foreigners, including to the American company AES. Those familiar with AES’s history in the ex-Soviet republic of Georgia will know that the privatization had disastrous results for the electricity sector there, and left many Georgians in the dark and cold in winter. This sort of change – privatization, scarcity, increased prices – is why Yushchenko’s candidacy is really valued in the West, not for democracy, “civil society,” or any of the other slogans the West trumpets. Apparently, despite Yushchenko’s support among the “enlightened” urbanites of Kiev who long to be “cool” and “Western,” and despite the control that pro-Yushchenko supporters have been able to exercise over the electoral process and machinery in Kiev and much of western Ukraine, a majority of Ukrainian voters in the 2004 election nevertheless remembered Yushchenko’s true legacy, and chose not to return to it.

Perhaps it was a sense that the Ukrainian populace was becoming content that has made Yushchenko and the opposition resort to more extreme rhetoric and measures in the election of 2004. Viktor Yushchenko, lauded by the West for his reformist credentials, ran as the staunch “opposition” candidate in 2004 using harsh language to criticize the regime. But he was handicapped in his attempts to portray himself as a radical. During the anti-Kuchma protests in March 2001, Prime Minister Yushchenko had described the demonstrators as “fascists,” and in 2002 Yushchenko’s campaign described itself as “neither pro-presidential nor extremist opposition.” So half-hearted was the opposition stance adopted by “Our Ukraine” in 2002 that the campaigns of the Socialists and Communists went so far as to identify “Our Ukraine” as just another “party of power.” In 2004, therefore, when Yushchenko decided to run as the “people’s candidate against the bandit government,” he was bound to experience a backfire. His failure to win the election in the first round – when he could count unconditionally on Western support – was an indication that things were not going as well as they should have been.

As with Mikheil Saakashvili in Georgia, Washington has clearly groomed Viktor Yushchenko for the Ukrainian presidency for many years. Yushchenko’s wife, Yekaterina Chumachenko, is an American citizen from the Ukrainian Diaspora, her parents having emigrated from Ukraine at the time of the Second World War. In the 1980s, Ms. Chumachenko worked as assistant to the US Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights and Humanitarian Affairs, then in different capacities in the White House Office of Public Affairs and the Department of the Treasury. From 1994-99 she was head of the Ukrainian representation at Barents Group LLC, which acted as a consultant to the National Bank of Ukraine when Yushchenko was chairman. It was at this time that she met Yushchenko and her influence over her husband is said to be enormous. While increasing numbers of Ukrainian politicians are denied visas to America, Yushchenko has little to worry about if he ever wishes to visit the United States.

In the final analysis, Yushchenko fits the New World Order bill like a glove. Can it be any wonder that George Soros – reviled in Ukraine – has offered his support so heavily to the pro-Yushchenko cause? The Soros world agenda centres largely on the idea of a financial-administrative elite and a global central bank, or World “Gosbank,” whose commanding heights will be the new nomenklatura. Who could be better suited for such a role than former Soviet Gosbank apparatchik Viktor Yushchenko? Unless something goes seriously wrong with the West’s plans in Ukraine, Yushchenko can be expected to appear shaking hands with George W. Bush in the White House in a matter of months. His ally, the gas industry oligarch Yulia Timoshenko (rumored to be a billionaire from Russian gas sales), should be joining him. For although she is wanted on an Interpol warrant in Russia for bribery, her name has recently disappeared from the Interpol website, presumably due to her vigorous support of the Orange Revolution. Evidently the Western scales of justice can be tipped by piling enough cash onto them.

<<

http://www.bhhrg.org/LatestNews.asp?ArticleID=53

[Tinoire]

70. Reading that now. Thanks for posting it. n/t

[SeveneightyWhoa]

71. Are you buying into that propaganda?

Oh God.

"despite the control that pro-Yushchenko supporters have been able to exercise over the electoral process and machinery in Kiev and much of western Ukraine, a majority of Ukrainian voters in the 2004 election nevertheless remembered Yushchenko’s true legacy, and chose not to return to it."

No, Yushchenko doesn't have any true mass support -- his support is all due to the "control" over the "electoral process and machinery". A majorit of Ukranian voters in the 2004 election "chose not to return to" Yuschenko?

COULD FRAUD HAVE BEEN A FACTOR? From this article, only Yanukovich was a victim of fraud, and not the other way around.

I'm sorry, you haven't convinced me of anything by posting such a ridiculous, slanted article.

[reorg]

83. what part of what I quoted would you deem propaganda - and why?

You are correct in that BHHRG reported (they were actually there, you know): false protests and actual fraud on the part of those clad in orange.

>> ...

Although Western media widely claimed that in Ukraine the opposition was, in effect, excluded from the broadcast media, particularly in western Ukraine the opposite was the case. On the eve of the poll – in flagrant violation of the law banning propaganda for candidates – a series of so-called “social information” advertisements showing well-known pop stars like Eurovision winner Ruslana wearing the orange symbols of Mr Yushchenko’s candidacy and urging people to vote appeared on state television!

Although BHHRG did not encounter blatant violations in either the first or second rounds, the Group’s observers were alarmed by a palpable change in the atmosphere inside the polling stations in central Ukraine in particular. In Round 1, a relaxed and orderly mood prevailed throughout the day. In Round 2 the situation had become slightly tense and chaotic. In BHHRG’s observation the change in Round 2 was attributable primarily to an overabundance of local observers, who exercised undue influence over the process and in some instances were an intimidating factor. The vast majority of observers in the polling stations visited were representatives of Viktor Yushchenko.

Transparent ballot boxes meant that these observers could frequently see how people had voted. This OSCE-approved innovation made intimidation of voters for the more unpopular candidate in any district easier since few supporters of the minority would wish it to be seen how they had voted. ...

It is naïve to think only the government had the facilities to exercise improper influence over the polls. From what BHHRG observed, the opposition exercised disproportionate control over the electoral process in many places, giving rise to concerns that the opposition – not only the authorities – may have committed violations and may have even falsified the vote in opposition-controlled areas. So-called “administrative resources” in places visited by BHHRG appeared to be in the hands of the opposition, not the government, and this may have frightened voters. After all since Sunday, police and security personnel in some western towns have declared their loyalty to “president” Yushchenko.

The open bias of Western governments and their nominated observers in the OSCE delegation, some of whom have appeared on opposition platforms, makes it unreasonable to rely on its report. ...

<<

http://www.bhhrg.org/CountryReport.asp?CountryID=22&ReportID=230

[russian33]

76. No, I'm not saying that, although anything this administration pushes..

..or funds makes me weary...this guy has a shady past, his wife worked for both Reagan and Bush Sr's administrations, and US spent a big chunk of money getting him to where he is today, and spent a lot of money on exit polls that 'proved' the election was stolen...That makes me VERY uncomfortable. If he turns out to be what Yeltsin was for Russia, Ukraine will see some dark years.

[Fovea]

40. look at his collar

and note that the white balance in the picture is
out of whack. If it were adjusted back, the cyan cast would be gone, though probably gray... I may try it just for laughs.

As I thought, it looked a lot redder with a better white balance.
Real

[Must_B_Free]

49. is face reflecting the color of his jacket

and this has been emphasized in the photo,.

[LittleClarkie]

60. He was such a handsome man

Bless him and his supporters. They've been through alot even if they have been manipulated. Standing out in the frigid cold, being poisoned, and still persevering.

I wonder if you could get that many Americans to stand out in below zero temperatures.

[Tinoire]

61. What is this about his wife? A Bush Conservative>??!!

She spreads out dozens of family photographs. There's Victor Yushchenko holding one of his children. Kathy and Victor and their children at a birthday celebration. A picture of Moll and her sister in Ukraine. And one of the girls with their mother in Florida. There are also framed photographs of her sister with former President Ronald Reagan and another with her and former President George Bush and his wife, Barbara. ((the merest of coincidences I'm sure))

www.ajc.com/metro/content/ metro/cherokee/1204/22ukraine.html -

==================
(snip)

After receiving a bachelor's degree from Georgetown University and a master's degree in business administration from the University of Chicago, Chumachenko Yushchenko held a series of jobs in Washington. She worked as an adviser on Eastern European ethnic affairs in the Reagan White House and in the State Department's human rights office.

When the Soviet Union began to fall apart in 1991, she co-founded U.S.-Ukraine Foundation, a non-profit organization that facilitates democratic development and free market reform in the European country.

Chumachenko Yushchenko moved to Kiev just before Ukraine became independent. The daughter of immigrants always had her heart there, said Nadia McConnell, president of the Washington-based foundation. Chumachenko Yushchenko was active in an organization that helps Ukrainian orphans, and she has even tried to help the scraggly mutts she noticed in Kiev, McConnell said.

(snip)

In 1993, Chumachenko Yushchenko met Viktor Yushchenko, now 50. She was working for KPMG LLP - an international audit, tax and advisory firm - and she led a study tour that brought Ukrainian bankers to several U.S. cities, including Chicago. At the time, Viktor Yushchenko was head of the Central Bank, and he joined the trip. Unlike many Ukrainian bankers then, she said, he was well-versed in free-market economics, and he was eager to reform a system struggling to emerge from communism.

(snip)

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/120604C.shtml

===

(not too sure about this one but interesting nonetheless!!)

During a House Government Reform and Oversight Committee investigation it was reported that Bill and Hillary Clinton had been gathering FBI files on people. At that time, June 10th 1996, they had only gone through the files on people who's last names began with the letters A-G and found what was reported to be close to 1000 files, and 399 of them were on officials who served during the Bush and Reagan administrations, and are listed below. Many of our critics say that this is a lie and we are conspirators trying to tarnish the good name of Bill Clinton, but they have no evidence, just opinions. I present you with the, almost 400, names of the people who served under the Reagan and Bush administrations, who's FBI files were in the possession of Bill and Hillary Clinton, as reported by USA-Today and the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee on June 10th of 1996. The investigation is still going on and this list of people tied with the Bush and Reagan administrations is now rumored to have over 700 names, but I will only share the solid factual evidence I can get my hands on. What were they used for?
I don't have any FBI files on the Clintons or their administration,
yet I'm supposed to be a conspirator.

(snip/a ton of names)

Chumachenko, Katherine Clare: Reagan, State Department special assistant


http://home.earthlink.net/~mrnetwork/filegate.html
===

(snip)

In the late 1980s and early 1990s she worked in the human rights office of the U.S. State Department. She also worked for the first President Bush in the Treasury Department. But her dream was always to help Ukraine become independent. So after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 she moved to Kiev. Her business degree from the University of Chicago helped her land a job with KPMG, the U.S. international auditing company, and she prospered training the country's economists in Western practices. She met Viktor Yushchenko when he was part of a delegation of central bankers she brought to Chicago. "He understood free markets, had a firm faith in God and knew what the right path for the country should be," she told me.

(snip)
Now that Mr. Yushchenko is to become president, it's likely he'll be able to push through more than his wife's citizenship application. He helped implement some free-market reforms when he served as prime minister for 16 months between 1999 and 2001 before being ousted by hard-liners in Parliament. Now he has a popular mandate at his back as well as international support, which has only increased with the success of his "orange revolution." His wife has also proved invaluable by introducing him to contacts in the West.

(snip)

The challenge will be to move Ukraine towards a free-market economy. Mrs. Yushchenko makes clear that her husband makes all of his own political decisions, but she will no doubt be a valuable asset to him. "She is one of the brightest, most dedicated conservatives I have ever known," says Bruce Bartlett, a former official in the Treasury Department under the first President Bush. "Anyone who met Kathy quickly discovered that creating a free, successful Ukraine was her primary mission in life, to the exclusion of almost everything else."

Now the challenge facing Ukraine is to make the leap towards becoming a democratic society truly governed by the rule of law. Mrs. Yushchenko is realistic about the obstacles facing her husband and his team. " people are making a lot of money off the current system," she told ABC News. "The last thing they want is for the system to change and for the economy to be a free market economy where the general population benefits rather than a small group of people at the top."

(snip)

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110006076

[mogster]

67. Good post

I had been looking for this info, thanks :-)

Alas! No hero is perfect, I guess.
I wondered why the Bush administration embraced him during the last election (for other reasons than taking the focus off their own cheating, of course), and now I know ;-)

[Tinoire]

68. There's more. Thread in GD

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2870381

I couldn't drop it last night. Started looking into it. Urgh... Is it so hard to leave these countries alone?

[SeveneightyWhoa]

72. Ewww gross, his wife has a photo with Bush??

Okay, now I hope Yanukovich DOES win, massive fraud and assassination attempts and all!

Get real..

You know, not everything Bush stands for is pure evil. Please keep that in mind.

[Tinoire]

73. It's reallty unfortunate that's all you got out of it

Unfortunate but not surprising :) Should I be surprised? This seems to be the general tone you've adopted with any post not fawning over Yushchenko. Is there a reason for this?

I'm going to have to beg to differ with you on Bush. There's not one thing he touches that isn't pure evil. Not one.

Out of curiousity, what else do you think Bush is "swell" on?

[bpilgrim]

78. i can only think of 1 thing that i am grateful for from *

he hasn't launched any nukes, yet...



has anyone heard what the MACHINES/OFFICIAL tally is, yet :shrug:

:hi:

peace

[Tinoire]

79. Haven't heard but want to check up on you

You don't have a photo of yourself with Bush do you? One that you haven't been telling me about ;)

[bpilgrim]

80. ok

i'm not in that one, but it is one of my favorites ;->

from the secret stash of * images...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/images/bush

:evilgrin:

peace

[Tinoire]

81. LMAO!

My mother will love that one! Thanks :)

[diamond14]

82. he'll DIE from this dioxin exposure within the year, likely sooner...

"dioxins" refers to a whole CLASS (thinks of a group or a collection) of chemicals that have STRUCTURALLY similiar properties, but vary widely in toxic effects....of course, American Chemical Attacks on Vietnamese civilians were AGENT ORANGE, one of many 'dioxins'...if you 'google agent orange' you'll find LOTS of studies and reports on the devastating effects of AGENT ORANGE on BOTH Vietnamese Civilians AND American Soldiers. These heinous Chemical Attacks were used to 'defoliate' their crops, so NOTHING would every grow on that land ever....and thousands of OUR Veterans are now PERMANENTLY 100% disabled from Agent Orange, many have been KILLED from it..the effects on the Vietnamese Civilians are horrifying and ghastly and for many, death would be merciful....and these types of chemical toxins have effects that are LONG-term, just continue and get worse for the rest of your life...many American soldiers did NOT notice any exposure problems until they returned to the US, and sometimes even months or years later....

this toxin that Yushchenko was poisoned with has been identified as a 'dioxin'...but which 'dioxin'? it's ONE of a CLASS of many many chemical compounds.....I suspect that's why it took so LONG for the chemists to identify it... but it may be a 'special dioxin', a variation that is not commonly used or seen...something developed in putin's research programs?....much like OUR Government develops nasty chemical toxins at Fort Detrick, Maryland labs, Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah labs, and several others that I should not name (I only named those because because they have been widely reported on due to the anthrax and ricin attacks, and the famous killing of hundreds of Navaho sheep when 'toxins' rolled down the hill off the chemical 'proving' grounds in Utah....

sooooo...whatever actual chemical structure was used to poison Yoshchenko (and it may be a mixture of several similar class compounds), there is likely little information about the chemical toxicity available publically to the doctors who are treating him....and that's why the massive PR campaign conducted by bushites feel free to LIE "oh he's OK, he'll recover, doctors claim full recovery in TWO years, he's fine internally, blah blah blah.......

this man will DIE soon...within the year, likely sooner....and I say that not because of his face, but because of the AMOUNT in his body....exposures of this magnitude leave long lasting damage and KILL (which I presume was the intention).....so the toxin will complete it's course....my best guess is that he'll be walking around and then just DROP DEAD, or he'll break out in a fast-moving full-body cancer (like leukemia) that'll just appear and then vanquish his body quickly, like one month.....

EPA regulates the entire class of dioxins as "CARCINOGENS"....